It's gotten to the point where...

[Buddha_Mind]

For sure -- and if she really didn't want to, she could have come up with some sort of joking response rather than demonizing squirrels for showing interest in her.

 

[Burroughs]

the bottom line is a guy is bound to get tired of dealing with Takers all the time. These people make poor impressions, yet they always expect to receive some type of royal treatment. This is in spite of the fact that they never pull their weight during interactions with the opposite sex.

I understand exactly where the OP is coming from with his observation.

very true...but when was the last time you dealt with a 7+ who WASN'T a taker...maybe in college a few times but vataloco had it right...as the girls age the *****yness increases...i see 24 years olds who are a thousand times more entitled than when they were 22.

If you want the hotties I don't really see how you get around this except by getting the fvck out the first sign of trouble.

 

[Solomon]

The chick is just looking for "leverage", thats all. When they know they can make you wait, it means they're in control of the frame. She's probably looking for more of a provider, a guy she can sink her teeth into.

BINGO!!!

brilliant post, hence when chicks say "I dont want us to have sex right away..."

I end the convo or after the date don't talk to her

 

[iqqi]

squirrels, you turned her off by coming on too strong, plain and simple. Even if you were joking... um, you are not 1 in a million with that. It's tiring, immature, and annoying to women most of the time. That is why women get so annoyed with men when they catcall or oggle. It's like, "give me a break!" It is refreshing and RARE to meet a man who is not ruled or lead by his d!ck. I guess I should clarify: a SEXY man who is not ruled by his d!ck.

And another myth is the whole be sexual thing. Yes, you should be a sexual being, but that doesn't mean make it 1000% obvious that you want to have sex with a girl... because girls already KNOW that. We KNOW you want to have sex with us. There is nothing new under the sun (or your pants) about that.

What's refreshing is a man who is SEXY without being overtly sexually interested in the object of his desire... that is where mystery and challenge comes in.

 

[Jitterbug]

^^ typical hangups of women in the Anglosphere. My Latina friends and I discussed this the other night and had a good laugh about it. Anglosphere women get really touchy whenever sex or anything related to sexuality is mentioned.

 

[iqqi]

As I read the responses now, I'd like to give a standing ovation to this one, he says it perfectly:

Squirrels, I can relate to what you are saying and you make some valid points.

However, I've read my sisters messages she gets on POF and it disgusts me. I've heard the stories from her and many others of guys sending pics of their privates with out ever going out with them. Women are tired of this behavior. They are a bit jaded about it and have little tolerance for anything that resembles another dose of it.

You did little during your interaction to portray yourself as something different than another perv looking for sechs. She called you out for it and you reinforced her belief of you. Yes you did so in a joking manner but she didn't take it as such.

Its kind of like this......most of the experienced guys on this forum have almost no tolerance for flakes or golddiggers. Most shut down at the first hint of anything that resembles that possibility. This girl hates pervs so her defense mechanism kicked in and she shut you out. The two things are very similar.

A little subtleness goes a long way with a chic. They are masters at decoding subtleness. I think you could have made your point in a less direct manner and not offended this chic. The term "calibration" comes to mind. Leaving a little mystery about yourself never hurts either.

another damn good post:

I haven't posted in a while, but I felt like chipping in on this thread because it seems like the same old negativity this forum is infamous for. Squirrels I think you are going about this the wrong way. You are wishing for a quality women so you can have a good time. Instead you should be focusing on having a good time, and simply learn to cope with the actual women who are out there with all their flaws and imperfections so you have positive interactions rather than frustrating ones. Quick example? Wearing a condom can mean the difference between a good time and a catastrophe. Same imperfect girl -- it's your own actions towards her that make the difference.

Theoretical question: would you rather have a fun day with a 4, or a sh!tty depressing day with a 9? Personally I'd take a fun day with a 4. It wouldn't involve sex, maybe you'd go to 6 Flags or something -- but you are having fun and making your life better. On paper this is easy, but what actually happens? I think the majority of guys on this forum would choose a sh!tty depressing day with a "9" headcase, since they're locked into chasing a phantom with a pretty face because they think only that will make them happy.

This is why guys are so stupid. You become a casualty of dating stress, at which point you are a walking red flag (and endlessly harping on about "quality women" qualifies) which will warn away well-balanced women who know better. You are wearing that good or bad experience the rest of your life -- maybe that sounds melodramatic, but its true. Your experiences stay with you, for better or worse. That's why the term "damaged goods" exists.

More relevantly to your case, Squirrels, you chose to spend your time getting into email drama on POF, when you could have done something that brings value to your life. I'm not telling you to make excuses for the flaws of other people, or blame yourself for their issues, but turning the mirror inward is always more productive because your choices start with you and you can affect them. That "quality woman" thing is never going to come true and your probably know that.

If you are getting burnt out on women, change what you're doing. There is nothing complicated about that.

squirrels, when are you going to GROW???

 

[iqqi]

^^ typical hangups of women in the Anglosphere. My Latina friends and I discussed this the other night and had a good laugh about it. Anglosphere women get really touchy whenever sex or anything related to sexuality is mentioned.

<teeth>

Typical oozing stuckupness that comes from most all of your posts because you are so much better than everyone else because you can swing dance, you are half asian or some sh!t, and you live down under. Yes, yes, applause, you are amazing and noone else comes close. Now you can sit down. :kick:

Truthfully, maybe you can start another post about the differences in "playful sexuality" when it comes to different cultures because that one might be a lot deeper than the simple truth of this one.

Which is most (american only?) boys are unsexy horndogs who think being sexy = showing picks of your d!ck online. </teeth>

 

[Jitterbug]

And you're a woman trolling a men's seduction site for attention. Go away.

 

[zekko]

Its kind of like this......most of the experienced guys on this forum have almost no tolerance for flakes or golddiggers. Most shut down at the first hint of anything that resembles that possibility. This girl hates pervs so her defense mechanism kicked in and she shut you out.

One reason so many "Anglo" women are touchy about sex is that there are so many guys approaching them who are only interested in them for the sex. You don't have to look too far on this forum to find these guys. The golddigger is a good example of an equivalent - guys do not want girls who are only interested in their money.

I still think the girl in the original post overreacted to what squirrels said, but she's in online dating land and probably had a lot of other options, so she ejected.

 

[Jitterbug]

One reason so many "Anglo" women are touchy about sex is that there are so many guys approaching them who are only interested in them for the sex.

Just to be clear, I used the word "Anglosphere" because I want to refer to all women, regardless of race, living in those Anglosphere countries.

And to address your point, those women have nothing to offer a man other than sex, that's why they're so touchy about it.

 

[iqqi]

And you're a woman trolling a men's seduction site for attention. Go away.

k.
































:moon: :kick:

 

[ELMER_GANTRY]

And this is the same chick who probably sends tons of pics to other guys with absolutley no problem. A chick who would go out on a date with guy, tell him all about her mean boyfriends that she had, he would look sympathetic, tell her all the things that make her feel good, all the stuff that she wants to hear, her shirt would be off in two seconds, and she would be in the sack with him for the night. But when the OP was being honest, she gets b!tchy and angry about sending a pic, after she asked him for one, and then she gets angry with him and dosn't want to talk anymore.

Some of these chicks talk about wanting a honest guy. Here she was talking with one and look how she acted.

You just beat her at her own game, you called her out, and she got mad and left.

That's why those free online dating sites are a joke, and I would never use them, even the pay sites. Chicks sign up for them and they know damn well what guys are on there for, and then they act horrified when they talk to a guy who is speaking the truth, and just saying what he wants.....amazing. Then, you have those chicks who think they will find their prince charming, and live happily ever after. Those are the ones who you can game quite easily in a short amount of time. There is nothing wrong with that, because you can bet your a$$ that they will be playing games with you. All is fair in sex and war. It's all about playing the game my friends, chicks play them too, so don't be afraid to play along, and beat them at their own game.

Too many guys think you have to act certain way to obtain women. That is not true. They follow the same script and routine thinking that it will work on every chick, then they find out that it doesn't. But, they still keep doing it and they wonder why they are having problems. You have to look at each individual woman and go from there, and change your routine and style if you need to. Nothing wrong with breaking "the so called rules" either, just as long as you achieve your goal. You have to be a great salesman and sell your pitch, some guys fail to do that, but if you do it right, you will come out on top, on top of her that is.

You can still be a man, break the rules, change the game, and still come out ahead. Nothing wrong with being a great actor. Do a little acting, a little faking, a little pretending, because chicks will do the same thing to you, you just need to beat them at their own game and you will win each and every time.

 

[squirrels]

As I read the responses now, I'd like to give a standing ovation to this one, he says it perfectly:

another damn good post:

squirrels, when are you going to GROW???

Iq, the point is I kind of got a vibe from the beginning that this girl was going to be more trouble than she was worth. We immediately started into some playful banter...and she asked to see pics of ME first. SHE said she wanted to see more pictures to make sure I was "fit", despite the fact that my profile pics clearly show what I look like. AND SHE requested a "shirtless" picture, which for a discreet young lady is WAY out of line in the first place. So I responded with a suggestive joke..."I'll show you mine if you show me yours". I didn't overtly start talking about sexual expectations until she did...I was candid with her because she got candid with me.

The joke was appropriate. The proper response for her would have been more sporting, "yeah, right, in your dreams" or something. Not to launch into a tirade about, "OMFG! YOU SAID SOMETHING SEXUAL!! ALL MEN ARE PIGS!!"

After all, SHE was the one driving this physical angle. I was happy just BSing until she kept pressing me for more pictures, more pictures. If she TRULY isn't interested in a sexual aspect to the discussion, then I could be a 500# bull whale and it wouldn't matter. I think when I confronted her with that realization, that SHE was driving the physical discussion, she panicked and thought I was using some kind of "jedi mind trick" on her.

At that point, I simply decided she WASN'T WORTH PURSUING if she was going to be ultra-prude. There's a lot more room for subtlety in person, yes. And I could have been more subtle in how I approached her if I wanted to be like EVERY OTHER guy she's been with recently, playing her for a fool until I got what I wanted.

You proceed from a false assumption here...that just because she's a pretty young lady, I'm supposed to be interested in a "relationship" with her right off the bat. That's EXACTLY what I meant by posting this thread...I'm not ranting about her unwillingness to put out, but her expectation of being romanced SOLELY based on her looks, by guys who AREN'T interested in sex right away.

Honestly, I got the vibe from the first time I saw her pic/read her profile/chatted with her that she was the kind of girl just WAITING for a chance to emasculate a guy, that she was the type of girl who had gotten abused a dozen times before because, frankly, she's stupid and guys just have to tell her what she wants to hear to get into her pants.

I could've done the same thing...and would have if she actually grabbed my interest on more than a sexual level. But with that attitude staring me in the face, I figured I'd tell her a few things about herself.

What you and other women don't seem to understand, Iq, is that I'm not like most of the other guys you run into. I would rather be single for my ENTIRE LIFE than be in a "relationship" with a woman who bores or annoys me. I don't need a nursemate that I merely tolerate for the purpose of breeding kids or having my "urges" taken care of.

THAT is the problem with guys these days, and that's why modern women show little character.

I don't presume to know you well enough to lump you with those women or not. I DO find it troubling that you came to the defense of some woman you don't even know except from what I told you about her, just because you're a fellow woman. Do you consider yourself a "fellow" to this girl?

Are you the same way? I respect your intelligence because I've seen you post a LOT here, but in real life, do you expect a "good man" to fall for you at first glance and assume because you're pretty that you're also cultured, intelligent, caring, and fun? Have they told you that story just to get in your pants and turned YOU off to your sexuality entirely as well??

Sex isn't as good without real romance behind it, everyone knows that. But why is the "sex" half cast out as the "evil part"? Is romance as good without sex behind it?

I've tried that too...and when you do, women wonder "what's wrong with you". I was dating a girl for a LONG time and she started giving me speeches about how she couldn't keep having sex with a guy who wasn't a steady boyfriend. So in respect for her feelings, I told her we should just stop having sex for a while. She EXPLODED into a fit of rage over it.

Let's be honest here...women don't want men to not think about sex. They want men to think about the LACK of sex, so they can dangle that promise in front of our noses as "bait", encouragement to act in the way SHE wants us to act. That's why it's a "no-no" on the first couple of dates, because she doesn't yet know if she can use you. Once she realizes she CAN, then she gives you a sample and drags you along as long as she can BETWEEN samples, feeding you instructions along the way. Unless SHE has HER urges, anyway. I'm on to you ladies.

You have no idea how I WISH I could go on a nice first date with a woman where I actually ENJOY myself without trying to f**k her. When I first got back into dating, I purposely stopped myself short on a couple of dates...one with this gorgeous redhead I DESPERATELY wanted to bang. I never heard from her again.

Why do you women complicate things that are really quite simple?

If women were truly "independent", they would have sex when they wanted to have sex, not when they thought they could get maximum personal gain from it. Every truly "independent" woman I've ever met is that way...they f**k when they feel like f**king and don't feel the need to use it as leverage.

You tell me to "grow"...but the point is I've "grown" past the point of tolerating these silly games. I have a more "mature" attitude toward "love" than 99.9% of the human population. If anything, I'm lamenting that more people don't get it.

Romance is the postmodern deity of choice, in the absence of classic religion. Women are its "priests" and "bishops", and they use their position to wield power over the stupefied. It doesn't work like that for me...I guess that makes me an apostate??

 

[st_99]

iqqi isn't right or wrong its just how she feels and that translates into other areas of her personality imo. She is probably rigid and doesn't respond well to teasing and playfulness. That is totally fine if that is the type of women you'd like to have as a partner. For me, nope. I want somebody that matches my laid back, sense of humor style.

 

[Solomon]

Here's something that no one has mentioned, does anyone truly believe chicks on POF are looking for a relationship?

A lot of chicks I see on POF i run into them on the field, I know what their about, their chicks who are "spinning plates" and are looking for the best option. POF is just something to entertain them at their mundane jobs, when their not out on the field. if a guy is good enough she may go on a date with him or let him even "rail" her

after my experiences, my buddies and this forum, etc, I have come to the conclusion that chicks on pof only wanna get railed(hard) or want a "AFC" chump to control. I get a lot of women trying to shame me for my profile for coming of as a "player", what why? because i dress sharp, and my profile isn't about fishing and football?

bytch please

 

[Lexington]

I've seen guys good at faking this also.

But it still seems strange, since they tell you here on this forum that women will view you as a beta wuss if you are too romantic or express love feelings too quickly. They pretty much tell you here to go in the complete opposite direction. They tell you to laugh at these guys playing the romance card because the women will supposedly be getting wet for you because you don't. And yet there seems to be a fairly large number of guys out there who are quite successful with this approach.

I highly doubt they were playing the role of the stereotypical servile wuss. These guys were getting in this woman's pants pretty easy and pretty quick. And the fact that they were able to toss these girls like a used rag shows that they didn't value them much at all and I'm sure it carried through in their actions. And I'm sure their actions said a lot more than their words....

 

[Atom Smasher]

The fact is that most of them want to create the illusion of romance BEFORE talking sexually.

It makes it "all right" to bump uglies later on. It's all about setting the stage in her little drama, men.

 

[Burroughs]

. It's all about setting the stage in her little drama, men.

Yes.

But is the cost too high?

That is always the question to ask going forward. We're men...we like to fvck as much as possible. But whenever the cost to fvck gets too high...get up.

And as with any good businessman...name YOUR PRICE in advance, don't let her dictate that.

 

[TizZle]

Don't take b1tches seriously. I assume this woman is upper 20s and about to hit the wall anyways.

 

[iqqi]

You say a whole lot here to my one little point, so I'll go tit for tat with you a little bit.

AND SHE requested a "shirtless" picture, which for a discreet young lady is WAY out of line in the first place. So I responded with a suggestive joke..."I'll show you mine if you show me yours". I didn't overtly start talking about sexual expectations until she did...I was candid with her because she got candid with me.

OK, you are the one who is kind of going overboard. Because she makes it clear up front that she doesn't want anyone coming on too strong, she is a discreet young lady? And you showing your chest is the same as her showing her chest? Come on now. You are rationalizing here.

Maybe she over reacted a little bit and didn't give the "appropiate" giggle that you wanted, but like a few of us have pointed out here, many women really are sick and tired of overt come on's. She wanted to see what you look like without a shirt, maybe you could have told her SHE was being a pervert, or maybe she really was just not worth the effort.

Your call there.

After all, SHE was the one driving this physical angle. I was happy just BSing until she kept pressing me for more pictures, more pictures. If she TRULY isn't interested in a sexual aspect to the discussion, then I could be a 500# bull whale and it wouldn't matter.

There's a lot more room for subtlety in person, yes. And I could have been more subtle in how I approached her if I wanted to be like EVERY OTHER guy she's been with recently, playing her for a fool until I got what I wanted.

1. Just because she doesn't want you to come on strong doesn't mean she isn't interested in you physically and sexually.

Both men AND women are interested in sex, and what else a person has to offer. However maybe a big difference in men and women, is the order in which those things reveal themselves.

and

2. You are assuming that every guy has played her for a fool. You don't know that, dude. You are ASSUMING. Why even bother? What does it matter, really. She DOES NOT WANT overt sexual attention from you right off the bat, and it doesn't really matter why. If you want to know why, it's already been mentioned. Subtlety is lacking these days.

You proceed from a false assumption here...that just because she's a pretty young lady, I'm supposed to be interested in a "relationship" with her right off the bat. That's EXACTLY what I meant by posting this thread...I'm not ranting about her unwillingness to put out, but her expectation of being romanced SOLELY based on her looks, by guys who AREN'T interested in sex right away.

Who is assuming here?

I never said anything about anyone wanting to be in a relationship. Maybe though the confusion here is your idea of what a relationship means. It really just means your interaction with another person. So by going on POF and connecting with women, you are looking for a relationship. You seem to obviously be looking for a sexual relationship. She specifically said she does NOT want anyone who is only looking for a sexual relationship.

That in my mind would mean that she wants to build on other aspects of a relationship before deciding on if she wants a sexual relationship.

And it seems like the only thing you think she has to offer is her looks, and sex. She might think there is much more to relationships, her self, and be hoping for more in a guy as well.

I really fail to see the issue here.

Honestly, I got the vibe from the first time I saw her pic/read her profile/chatted with her that she was the kind of girl just WAITING for a chance to emasculate a guy, that she was the type of girl who had gotten abused a dozen times before because, frankly, she's stupid and guys just have to tell her what she wants to hear to get into her pants.

Well this is just all full of assumptions here, and negative ones at that. I don't know what you expect when that is your line of thinking.

I could've done the same thing...and would have if she actually grabbed my interest on more than a sexual level. But with that attitude staring me in the face, I figured I'd tell her a few things about herself.

Well you did the right thing!

What you and other women don't seem to understand, Iq, is that I'm not like most of the other guys you run into. I would rather be single for my ENTIRE LIFE than be in a "relationship" with a woman who bores or annoys me. I don't need a nursemate that I merely tolerate for the purpose of breeding kids or having my "urges" taken care of. THAT is the problem with guys these days, and that's why modern women show little character.

Man, tons and tons of assumptions here.

It really sounds like you are just mad that women don't want to jump into the sack RIGHTAWAY with you, and you don't want to go through the motions of "getting to know someone". So what makes you any different than women who you think expect more just from their looks? I mean, here you are, expecting a sexual relationship from... what? You aren't taking the time to get to know someone. And you aren't giving them a chance to get to know you. So... you expect a sexual relationship based solely on your looks.

I don't presume to know you well enough to lump you with those women or not. I DO find it troubling that you came to the defense of some woman you don't even know except from what I told you about her, just because you're a fellow woman. Do you consider yourself a "fellow" to this girl?

Um... weighing in on a subject is not "coming to the defense" of anyone. Is she even here arguing with you? Do you feel ganged up on, and attacked?

Are you the same way? I respect your intelligence because I've seen you post a LOT here, but in real life, do you expect a "good man" to fall for you at first glance and assume because you're pretty that you're also cultured, intelligent, caring, and fun? Have they told you that story just to get in your pants and turned YOU off to your sexuality entirely as well??

No... I expect a "good man" to fall for me after he takes the time and effort to see that I am cultured, intelligent, caring, fun, and all that blah blah blah that makes me who I am.

My sexuality definitely is not turned off, and it doesn't mean that it is just because it isn't turned on and up all of the time, for anyone who tries to turn it to that channel.

Sex isn't as good without real romance behind it, everyone knows that. But why is the "sex" half cast out as the "evil part"? Is romance as good without sex behind it?

I don't think anyone is casting out sex as an evil part. I think you are the one who is casting out romance, or even simple "getting to know someone" as evil.

Think about it.

I've tried that too...and when you do, women wonder "what's wrong with you". I was dating a girl for a LONG time and she started giving me speeches about how she couldn't keep having sex with a guy who wasn't a steady boyfriend. So in respect for her feelings, I told her we should just stop having sex for a while. She EXPLODED into a fit of rage over it.

Well, sounds like she wanted you to be her boyfriend, and you let her know you'd rather stop having sex than to become that.

I'd probably be mad too if I were her and into you that much, but that doesn't mean you were wrong. She was just upset because she wanted you to be her boyfriend, and you rejected that. No one likes rejection.

That was a personal, one off situation that shouldn't be used to base any general statements on everyone from there on out. Not that it is uncommon. Any time any one wants more and is rejected, there will be hurt feelings.

Let's be honest here...women don't want men to not think about sex. They want men to think about the LACK of sex, so they can dangle that promise in front of our noses as "bait", encouragement to act in the way SHE wants us to act. That's why it's a "no-no" on the first couple of dates, because she doesn't yet know if she can use you. Once she realizes she CAN, then she gives you a sample and drags you along as long as she can BETWEEN samples, feeding you instructions along the way. Unless SHE has HER urges, anyway. I'm on to you ladies.

Well that is just FULL of assumptions and negativity, good lord! How do you expect to have any kind of positive relationships with a woman when that is your mindset??

I don't have sex with a guy right away

#1 and most important - because I don't KNOW him. Also because it usually leads to better sex when you let desire build a little, and have more of a connection.

Here is some inside thinking from a lot of women's POV:

If the guy is not worth anything at all besides being very sexy, then maybe a girl would consider just having a sexual relationship with him. But he would probably have to be VERY sexy and worth the headache, and even then it might take a few interactions to decide he isn't worth anything else but sex.

Some girls don't think any guy who is only good for sex is worth anything at all, not even a sexual relationship. They just prefer to wait for one who has a lot more going for himself.

cont...