Its about authenticity

[hobbes]

I am a lurker here.. from time to time I come by and read up and see what is going on, finding things that I can apply or make me see things from a different perspective than I normally would. I am a high beta, lower alpha, by the jargon of the manosphere. I have good luck with women, and have been with alot of them- and this is before my pre red pill days. I am now 41, still single with no kids.

I just broke up with a woman I've been dating for about 8 months. A good person for the most part- most of the women I have been with have been great women, just really bad wives/gfs/lovers. It amazes me just how terrible even good hearted, smart, caring women are at relationships and dating. The disease has spread so far and penetrated so deeply that it has infected even the women who are born with good traits and kind natures.

So here is what has occurred to me as I sit here looking back on my life and relationships and women in general. Its about authenticity. Women can not handle the authentic, the real. Women have no idea what to do with authentic men, and the reasons why are probably vast and varied. But I
think the main reason is that men value authenticity, the real, the truth because we are forced at an early age to do so. Women today are given a pass and so have no concept of these things, so they never face reality, the truth.

Women respond to game because they have no way to process authentic men. They have no idea how to be authentic in response. Yes, there is evolutionary biology that explains this. But men are also products of their evolutionary biology and yet, by our childhood, from societies expectations we evolve past it and develope higher ideals and standards. We develope an appreciation for authenticity and truth. Women do not, and its so far gone that I think women are stuck in a world where they have to be gamed, and why gamed? because game, as the name implies, is inauthentic.

You have to spin plates, kill the beta, be a mystery, act alpha, blah blah blah.. and it works. But not because it makes you a better man. No, I think thats not the case. Because women can't handle a better man. It works because in the end its a game and as such inauthentic, unreal and kind of fake. "fake it til you make it" right?

You know how women say that men can't handle a strong woman, yada yada?
Like most things female this is a projection. The fact is that women can not handle good men. They are not expected to ever develop that ability, that character. We don't expect much of them either do we? We write off all their behaviors and whims as a product of evolutionary biology. Would we do that with men? When a guy rapes a woman, do we say "well, he's just following his biological imperative to reproduce". Of course not. But rape is a behavior nature has evolved to propagate the species. But we don't accept that excuse. We expect men to actually FIGHT those aspects of nature we deem wrong. We don;t do this with women, we play to their hypergamy, their branch swinging, their 'gina tingles and say.. "well, they evolved that way, they can't help it"

We are in a pickle gentlemen. We are devolving. The worst for us are reproducing at a higher rate than the best of us, and the best of us are learning to act and be like the lowest among us to get in on the action. I have no solutions here, just sadness.. sadness for a two to three generations of good men- and women- led astray by forces that have ruined our society and its highest aspirations. Sadness at generations of good men and women who will skim life on the surface of relationships never to experienced the depth and the authentic connection possible to our species. Generations of men and women doomed to shallow and cynical lives of game playing and pump and dumps and divorces and children left to grow up in dysfunctional homes to dysfunctional parents in a dysfunctional shallow society.

So here is Game in a nutshell- de-evolve. Model yourself after a sociopath as Roissy points out, kill that part of yourself capable of deep connection and feeling so that your ons/gf/wife can have her 'gina tingles. Game your wife so that divorce court wont rape you. De-evolve back to your most primal state of pumping and dumping and mindless effing.Or go MGTOW like some ostracized hermit rejected by society.

We are adapting to our times, yes, I realize that. It may even be necessary. but damn if this is not the very definition of a Pyrrhic Victory.

 

[DragonBlood]

This is a joke. I cant stand people who are nice to me and neither can woman. There is nothing good about it.

 

[hobbes]

This is a joke. I cant stand people who are nice to me and neither can woman. There is nothing good about it.

Not exactly sure where you get this is about "being nice".

But that you dislike someone being nice to you is pretty amazing. Your mother is a c&nt.

There, feel better?

 

[DragonBlood]

Theres no such thing as a free lunch. People only suck up if they want something. I would rather someone tell me the truth than take advantage of me.

but each to their own.

 

[hobbes]

Dude, what your talking about is nonsensical. what free lunch am I asking for here?
If anything you are agreeing with me, as I said in the post- women can not handle the truth

 

[SpazzAttackk]

Theres no such thing as a free lunch. People only suck up if they want something. I would rather someone tell me the truth than take advantage of me.

but each to their own.

I actually have to go to work, so I apologize for not reading OPs post. Ill read it when I get back

But in regards to this quote, I agree 100000x. Ive lost so many 'friends' because theyd do something 'nice' for me like buy me a lunch without me even asking.

Couple months later, a petty argument will happen and theyll bring up the 'BUT IVE DONE SO MUCH **** FOR YOU LIKE BUY YOU LUNCH THE LEAST YOU CAN DO IT PAY ME BACK'. Even though, I never asked for it. Thats why when Im at a restaurant or bar with friends, I pull all their teeth when it comes to them wanting to pay my bill.

 

[DragonBlood]

You have to spin plates, kill the beta, be a mystery, act alpha, blah blah blah.. and it works.

No. I disagree with this. All you see is techniques not the temple that stands above them.


Being a better person and lover gets the chicks. Does that really surprise you? This site is about self-improvement first and foremost and the DJ Bible and the like are just stepping stones.


@Spazz lol been there alright. Ive done so much for you LOL

 

[49au]

We are not devolving - we are slowly awakening to the realization that the societal constructs of marriage and monogamy don't really satisfy us. We have created a social experiment which ultimately leaves men unsatisfied, financially compromised, and broken.

I would also argue that the "beta" instincts you describe - which you seem to believe are the true nature of a man - are actually the bad/weak part of his nature. They are comparable to the feeling of satiety a glutton experiences after eating a large meal. It is nice to enjoy that feeling, but never to remain there. More meals (resources/women/money/etc.) need to be acquired, or he will fall by the wayside.

Natural selection is clever. It forces us to overcome obstacles in order to make the cut. "Beta" is our greatest obstacle. It is not our "true nature". It is the dark half that nature challenges us to master and overcome, in order to pass the brutal standards of evolution.

It is in our nature to eat, fuk, create, destroy, and fight for survival. This "beta" construct of Hallmark cards, Vday dinners, unconditional love, and white picket fences is a fantasy we can indulge in at times, but I would hardly say that alpha men have lost anything by not living there permanently. We've gained.

"When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man I put away childish things." - St. Paul

 

[hobbes]

Spin plate-Rollo
Kill the Beta- Rollo
Mystery- Mystery/every pua on the planet
Act alpha- Roissy

These are the most popular, leading Game theorists out there. Take it up with them then.
If being a better person and lover got the chicks so many good men would not be divorced and torn from their children. Veterans at war would not be getting dear john letters from wives/gfs while serving overseas. You really think women are selecting for good men? Laughable.

But I think your misreading my post. Its not about being "nice". Its not about giving something and expecting a return for it.

You have a misunderstanding, someone who is trying to manipulate you by being nice, is not being authentic- the very topic of my post. Authenticity.. It seems to be a concept that eludes you from your responses.

 

[49au]

Nothing in our society is based on authenticity. Nothing.

You are ignoring effect of the most basic human drive - self-interest.

Society has never been transparent and genuine, and it never will be. You mentioned soldiers. You mentioned soldiers - think about all those who went to Iraq to die for oil interests and the military-industrial complex's ever fattening wallet. Sacrificing for others has nothing to do with being "good." Brush up on our Nietzsche (he talks a lot about society's delusional fiction of "morality" and "good people"), and try to develop your latent Dark Triad traits.

Your parents are the only people who will ever love you unconditionally, that is a basic fact of life. And some don't even have that.

The proper response is to stop rowing upstream, and understand that what you have taught women are truly seeking is wrong, then adapt to that. Lamenting it, complaining about it, etc. is not going to change anything. Men have been lied to about women; some are chasing something and mourning something that never existed in the first place.

 

[hobbes]

49au- thanks for a cogent response. I do disagree though. Nature has created both the beta instincts and the alpha instincts. Nature has two ways to ensure survival- competition and co-operation. Alpha is one side of our nature. Beta is another. In truth both must exists in varying levels to be truly natural and healthy.

That you consider beta the "bad" part of mans nature shows what I am saying about inauthenticity. There is no "bad" nature, just nature. thats it. That you feel the need to judge beta as bad, while alpha as good demonstrates the need to cut off parts of ourselves as real, whole beings- authentic. We are all part alpha- competition and beta- co-operation. To judge beta instincts as bad, is as inauthentic as judging alpha instinct as bad.

I don't judge my alpha or beta instincts and both, I feel, are under my control and both bring me things I appreciate in life. They serve me. And being a person who can accept both his alpha and beta traits that authentically is a problem in our society today.

You are judging half your nature as bad, as the enemy. Do you see the lack of authenticity there that I speak of?

 

[DragonBlood]

There is no "bad" nature, just nature. thats it. Do you see the lack of authenticity there that I speak of?

hahaha hobbes quit blue ballin. Of course there is such as thing as bad nature. Anything that destroys you, puts you in spirals of depression, suicide and murder over some love fantasy or addiction is all bad news. wake up.

 

[hobbes]

Nothing in our society is based on authenticity. Nothing.

You are ignoring effect of the most basic human drive - self-interest.

Society has never been transparent and genuine, and it never will be.

Your parents are the only people who will ever love you unconditionally, that is a basic fact of life. And some don't even have that.

The proper response is to stop rowing upstream, and understand that what you have taught women are truly seeking is wrong, then adapt to that. Lamenting it, complaining about it, etc. is not going to change anything. Men have been lied to about women; some are chasing something and mourning something that never existed in the first place.

Yes, here I agree with you. We are adapting, as I said, to a dysfunctional society, and one that is growing more dyfunctional daily. And yes, I will lament that. I have adapted and will continue to- that is not the issue here. It is the rocogniction that that adaptation is a pyrhhic victory in many ways.
I will not rationalize that dysfuntion.

I will adapt and accept it, but as I have, as we all have.. But I will not rationalize it- that I'll leave to the women

 

[hobbes]

hahaha hobbes quit blue ballin. Of course there is such as thing as bad nature. Anything that destroys you, puts you in spirals of depression, suicide and murder over some love fantasy or addiction is all bad news. wake up.

You truly are unremarkable in your observations. Nature is not bad for killing you, or destroying you, Nature is indifferent to your personal survival. Nature is simply nature. thats it.

Good and bad is a human invention, not some pronouncement by Nature. Nature is indifferent. It kills and destroys. It just is. Whether you like it or not is simply a personal opinion of yours.

 

[49au]

hahaha hobbes quit blue ballin. Of course there is such as thing as bad nature. Anything that destroys you, puts you in spirals of depression, suicide and murder over some love fantasy or addiction is all bad news. wake up.

hobbes,

This is pretty much what I would say in response.

I could only add that the "bad" elements of our nature don't just weaken us with women, but in all areas of life. Physical fitness, career, etc.

It is my particular nature to be very impulsive, thrill-seeking, etc. This fantastic in many situations, and women love it. But I also recognize that this part of my nature is something I must regulate at times, or it also has the ability to destroy me.

What I mean by "beta" in this thread is not the occasional emotional moment with a woman, or exhibiting true vulnerability and humanity from time to time.

Rather, it is the white knight complex. It is the lie that women are innocent little princesses waiting to be rescued. In reality, they are cunning and self-interested, vacuous, empty vessels. They are waiting for a man's strength and seed. That's their entire purpose. They get pregnant, they nurture those children, then they get old and very ugly.

I love women, and I enjoy myself greatly with them. But I never forget this. We must never stop regulating our passions.


With regard to alpha and beta being dual mechanisms of survival - I have to disagree. Alphas use betas as tools, just as women use them as tools. A man who operates more out of concern for others (especially women) than himself, is a beta. He will be used, lied to, and ultimately discarded.

 

[hobbes]

Nowhere in my post have I defended white knight complexs, being overtly nice, putting others above yourself, none of the things you guys keep bringing up are what I am talking about. I was not a "nice guy" I was not white knighting- and really never have been that guy. Maybe in that sense I
am different from guys here- I don't have a beef with that stuff cause its not me.
So I am not sure why that is coming up.
My problem with women, what I have seen- this last one included- is that they do not rise up to standards of a good man who is control of his beta and alpha traits. They fail to meet the most basic requirements. My point is that, while I can understand all that from clueless bar skanks or bpd women, I find it sad that good hearted, wonderful women, have all lost the ability to deal with men who are just that- men. Not men concerned with beta/alpha hangups, game players, white knights etc etc.. Just well balanced men.

They havent been taught how.

 

[49au]

I see what you're saying, and I agree - even the "intelligent" women I've dated (including very high income professional women) are dumb as sh!t when it comes to anything outside of the facts and protocols required to perform their jobs.

Like I said, they're just vessels. Empty, wandering, vacuous, just waiting to be filled and dominated.


However, your OP seems to paint "alpha" and "game" as masquerades that men must employ in order to even interest women. My take was that you feel "alpha" and "authentic" to be mutually exclusive.

Example:

You have to spin plates, kill the beta, be a mystery, act alpha, blah blah blah.. and it works. But not because it makes you a better man. No, I think thats not the case. Because women can't handle a better man. It works because in the end its a game and as such inauthentic, unreal and kind of fake. "fake it til you make it" right?

 

[hobbes]

Let me adress this another way..
Women have been under the influence of feminism for while now. Feminsim has taught woment hat they have to be man like, to not stay home to be career go getters, to sleep around etc etc.. There are women - most actually, for whom this is against their natures, yet they feel pressured into this. The fight he more feminine and nurturing aspects of themselves.. and if you asked them why they are doing it, they'll probably have an answer alot like what I am reading here- adaptation, because thats how life is, etc etc..

They are strangling their true nature to accommodate a broken society that has not served them well. They are denying themselves what they are. they are judging - by societies expectations- that certain natural traits are "bad".

This is alot of what I see in these responses as well.

In truth authentic, natural people have been difficult to come by in every generation. Hucksters and jive men, and go along to get along has probably been the norm forever.

but its getting rarer. I am meeting women who have failed at the most basic requirements of meeting my expectations. I think popular culture has made women who are in touch with their feminine natures rarer and rarer. You cant expect them to be women, but more like little girls, and that is the level you have to deal with them at. And while I accept that, its grown boring and superficial.

Getting them and keeping them isn't difficult.. its finding one worth doing that with that is

 

[hobbes]

49au- I see how that part could have been read that way, but it was badly expressed. What I meant by that was that its the only level you can communicate at anymore with women. Its as you said, even professional, smart, - and this the worst to me- good hearted, naturally nurturing/feminine women- have been lead astray and lack the capacity to develope depth of character.

I just don't believe its all just evolution and biology. I remember older women in my family, and family circle.. women with strength of character and yes, depth. Yes they had female biological nature hard wired into them, but they surpassed it- just as men do.

Feminism/consumerism/culture has made them incapable of more. I admit, I lament that. It makes me sad.

 

[49au]

Really feeling those two posts.

I too am highly disappointed in women's lack of depth. But I've learned to seek true friendship and camaraderie with other men, and not seek those things from women.

But still, it's like losing your belief in Santa Clause, unconditional love, karmic justice, and "God." You wonder what were possible had these things, though always fantasy, actually been real.


YES - feminism has made women unhappy. Feminism has made men unhappy. I know these girls you're talking about. So obsessed with their careers, and being "equal", they fail to understand that POLARITY creates attraction, not equality. They think that men measure them by their salaries, since they partly measure us that way. They fear that because they are only a waitress, they are less desirable than their business owner counterpart.

These women have become caught up in the rat race. Stressing themselves, losing their beauty more quickly, accumulating massive loan debt, taking on careers prohibitive to mothering and home life, and ultimately trying to upgrade men one too many times. In my area there are tons of these late 20s+ women. They are unmistakably feminine on the outside, and appallingly masculine on the inside.

As for the older women you mention, think about the society they lived in. There was no birth control and no Plan B. No legalized abortion. If you cheated, you literally risked ruining your life. Women's true natures are becoming more obvious in our society, where this is no longer the case.