Israel attack on international aid ship to Gaza

[Ease]

Isreal launches an attack on a Turkish civilian aid ship headed for Gaza, in international waters.

Basically they stop the ship 60 miles away from destination for unexplained reasons. The normal protocol is that aid ships are stopped 2 miles from shore by isreali forces and searched for approval. Any weapons, building equipement or humanitarian aid is confiscated and prevented entry.

However after an initial disagreement between crew members and armed forces, isreali forces attack the ship. 20 people are killed and others injured from the gunfire. The civilians involved are journalists and peace activists from all over the world, so obviously this makes for bad publicity.

The truth behind this is that this peace mission was started with the knowledge that there may be a confrontation from israel. The possible confrontation would highlight the acts of the 'israel' state. I doubt anyone would expect such a massacre in such an overtly illegal manner, but i wonder how much effect it can have on exposing isreal when world media is so monopolised by the Jews.

A multilingual as-it-happens report from onboard. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MB-Mk4bFz-U

 

[user43770]

I've seen the video and those "civilians" were asking for it. Have you seen the sh1t they confiscated from the ship?

 

[Ease]

The ship was clean. The attack started because the crew members got in a fight with the first soldiers and beat up 2 of them on the initial confrontation.

Fight or not fight, its not the small picture that's important. Public never really see the politics that goes on behind doors either way. People could complain, debate and fight about politics for years but the decisions are made behind closed doors. Oppression of people is as old as time.

The thing about this case is that it further still wears down the relations of Israel with it's former allies.

 

[teagan]

"'The defense of the boat was quite well organized,' said Espen Goffeng, a 38-year-old activist from Norway who sailed aboard the Mavi Marmara. 'There was a plan to keep soldiers off the boat.'"

In the words of Ackbar, "It's a trap."

 

[Ease]

You're on a boat expecting an attack from an armed commando crew from a helicopter. It makes sense to prepare

 

[Desert Fox]

I've seen the video and those "civilians" were asking for it. Have you seen the sh1t they confiscated from the ship?

yeah I saw a bunch of wheel chairs and marbles. oooo marbles, damn dude I would totally shoot a dude 4 times in the face (actually happened to an American on board) point blank when those deadly marbles and wheelchairs are coming at me. rofl

anyways, this is just classic middle east bullsh1t. who cares what side is right or wrong. nothing will change, they've been fighting for thousands of years. nothing to see here, carry on

 

[Bladerunner]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_flotilla_raid

^Probably the only unbiased and neutral source on what happened right now.

A few points:

1. Regarding the legality of the raid: The San Remo Manual on International Law Applicable to Armed Conflicts at Sea states, specifically 67A, that if you have a boat that is charging a blockaded area you are allowed to intercept even prior to it reaching the blockaded area if you've warned them in advance, which the Israelis did a number of times, and they had a stated goal which they openly expressed, of breaking the blockade.
2. The other five ships were boarded without violent confrontation
3. The MV Mavi Marmara is now known to have had a number of Islamists who went with the intent to die:

Some supporters of the flotilla announced on 28 March: "A violent response from Israel will breathe new life into the Palestine solidarity movement, drawing attention to the blockade."[79][80] Some of the activists who would later die during the MV Mavi Marmara clash spoke of dreams of martyrdom. Ali Khaider Benginin told his family before leaving, "I am going to be a shahid; I dreamt I will become a shahid – I saw in a dream that I will be killed." His wife also said that he "constantly prayed to become a martyr." On 3 June, the IDF released footage from a Press TV interview before the raid in which a flotilla passenger says, "With the help of God, I will be a shahid." On 29 May, Aljazeera broadcast footage of some activists on the MV Mavi Marmara participating in a chant invoking battle against Jews.

Generally, people on humanitarian missions are concerned with helping another group of people out, not dying as martyrs.

When this group of fundamentalists attacked the IDF soldiers with weapons and essentially forced them to start using live ammunition, innocent people started getting killed in the chaos. But that of course, was the whole idea in this propaganda war. Same thing happened in the land invasion of Gaza when Hamas pulled stunts like putting their military command center in a civilian hospital and then screaming bloody murder and war crimes whenever it got hit.

 

[DanelMadr]

They had every right for the assault of the ship.
They were right to shoot. If you try to beat a cop with an iron bar in LA...you are going down too.
Israel's existence and it's right for self defense is well justified if only by the fact that it is a democracy surrounded by totalitarian states. And Gaza is run by fanatic azzholes.

Only thing I don't understand...

You either know the fanatics on the ship are not that dangerous and you immobilize the ship and tow it to harbor. And then you board it with shields, batons and rubber projectiles and tear gas.

Or you are not sure how much resistance you might expect and you don't want the ship in your harbor but then you certainly don't go to cease the ship in daylight, rappelling from helicopter to the arms of the fanatics.

In other words you don't use commandos for police work and vice versa.

It was poorly planned and executed.

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

Says Joseph Lieberman: (who, despite his usual political stance, I agree with on this issue)

WASHINGTON, DC – Senator Joe Lieberman (I-CT) today issued the following statement regarding the Gaza flotilla incident:



“We should be very clear about who is responsible for the unfortunate loss of life in the attempt to break the blockade in Gaza. Hamas and its allies are the responsible parties for the recent violence and the continued difficulties for the people of Gaza. Israel exercised her legitimate right of self defense.



“The blockade exists because Hamas, which is increasingly acting as a proxy for the Iranian regime, has fired thousands of rockets upon Israel even after Israel withdrew from Gaza. The flotilla was a clear provocation and was not an effort to improve the lives of the people of Gaza but rather an attempt to score political propaganda points. The Palestinian people have legitimate rights to a state that is a peaceful neighbor of Israel, but those who assist Hamas only undermine that goal and a peaceful resolution. Support of Hamas and its aims is not the humanitarian path to peace, but rather enables continued violence and conflict.



“I appreciate the way in which the Obama Administration has refused to join the international herd that has rushed to convict Israel before the facts were known and has apparently forgotten that Israel is a democratic nation and Hamas is a terrorist group. At difficult moments like this, it is more important than ever for the U.S. to stand steadfastly with our democratic ally, Israel.”

 

[Ease]

Very reliable source of information wikipedia as ever, article sites half of it's reference from "hareetz.com".

putting their military command center in a civilian hospital and then screaming bloody murder and war crimes whenever it got hit.

Lets not biased. If i was to blow up a hospital by accident during random missile fire, i would probably say that it was a terrorist base also. Especially if i had the media on my side.

We cant judge the violence with 1 sided reports. The activists and journalists all knew the probability that there would be a confrontation. I wouldnt be surprised if there were some maniacs that came along for a fight, but fact is there were 500 people on the ship and about 5 other ships in the fleet. It wasn't a threat to israeli people so much as a protest.

 

[DanelMadr]

It wasn't a threat to israeli people so much as a protest.

Don't be a demagogue here.

Israelis have not torpedoed the ship, they tried to take control of it and divert it for inspection.

What is your agenda here? Do you support Hamas? Do you want the blocade raised so Hamas can prosper and eventually take over Israel?

You need to decide. Because there are only two sides in the end of the day.

 

[Bladerunner]

Very reliable source of information wikipedia as ever, article sites half of it's reference from "hareetz.com".



Lets not biased. If i was to blow up a hospital by accident during random missile fire, i would probably say that it was a terrorist base also. Especially if i had the media on my side.

We cant judge the violence with 1 sided reports. The activists and journalists all knew the probability that there would be a confrontation. I wouldnt be surprised if there were some maniacs that came along for a fight, but fact is there were 500 people on the ship and about 5 other ships in the fleet. It wasn't a threat to israeli people so much as a protest.

There's not much "random missile fire" among modern military forces that use guidance systems that can nearly land ordinance on a dime, though there are occasional errors. There are, however, the nasty homemade rockets that have a habit of landing on Israeli schools and civilians that are the whole reason this blockade even exists.

As for human shields, here's something for ya straight from the mouth of Hamas:

Gaza and the West Bank
In November 2006, Palestinian women volunteered as human shields to allow the escape of Hamas gunmen from Israeli forces in Beit Hanoun in the Gaza Strip. The armed Palestinians had barricaded themselves in a mosque, which was surrounded by Israeli troops and tanks. According to a Hamas spokesman, a crowd of women gathered outside the mosque in response to an appeal on the local radio station for women to protect the Hamas fighters. The Palestinian gunmen escaped by dressing in women's clothes and hiding in the large group.[8]
Also in the same month, the Israeli Air Force warned Mohammed Weil Baroud, a Palestinian leader said to be responsible for firing Qassam rockets at Israel, to evacuate his home in Beit Lahia in the Gaza Strip in advance of an airstrike. Instead, hundreds of Palestinians, including many women and children, gathered outside Baroud's house. Israel suspended the airstrike out of fear that the human shields would be killed or injured. In response to Israel's reaction, another Palestinian leader said: "We have won. From now on we will form human chains around every house that is threatened with demolition."[9] The Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs says Hamas now regularly uses human shields to protect the homes of Hamas officials.[10]
The human rights group Rabbis for Human Rights agreed to act as human shields during the annual olive harvest to protect Palestinian villages from settlers.[11]
On October 29, 2007, in response to criticism of Israel's bombing of a Beit Hanoun Elementary School for boys run by UNRWA, the Israel Defense Forces released drone footage of mortars shot from a street adjacent to the school. Israel warned Ban Ki Moon about the danger and requested an investigation.[12] Local eyewitnesses later confirmed that Hamas militants had fired at Israeli troops from adjacent a UN school for girls where hundreds of Palestinians had sought refuge.[13][14] 43 Palestinians were reported killed when a street near the school was hit by return fire.[15] Israel accused Hamas of "cynically" using civilians as human shields. A report from the IDF brigade responsible for the attack stated that militants had launched a rocket into Israel from a yard adjacent to the UN building and the paratroop brigade had fired three rounds of mortars at the position. A GPS error led to one of the mortars hitting the building.[16]
According to a transcript translated and published by the Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI) on February 29, 2008, a Hamas parliamentarian spoke of a "death-seeking" culture where women, children and the elderly volunteer as human shields against Israeli military attacks. "[The enemies of Allah] do not know that the Palestinian people have developed its [methods] of death and death-seeking," Fathi Hammad is quoted by Memri in a speech televised on Hamas' Al-Aqsa television station. "For the Palestinian people, death has become an industry, at which women excel, and so do all the people living on this land. The elderly excel at this, and so do the mujahideen and the children," Hammad is quoted as saying. "This is why they have formed human shields of the women, the children, the elderly, and the mujahideen, in order to challenge the Zionist bombing machine. It is as if they were saying to the Zionist enemy: 'We desire death like you desire life,'" he said.[17]

 

[Ease]

Israelis have not torpedoed the ship, they tried to take control of it and divert it for inspection.

What is your agenda here? Do you support Hamas? Do you want the blocade raised so Hamas can prosper and eventually take over Israel?

You need to decide. Because there are only two sides in the end of the day.

The ship wasn't averted for inspection, the ship was never permitted to enter gaza in the first place. Israel wanted the ships to land at a different harbour where they would 'deliver the aid themselves', but the organisation declined saying that the aid would not reach the people. The whole issue of building materials and other equipment being confiscated.

The fleet left knowing that they would be asked to divert but they wanted to make a show of refusing to cooperate. It was a provokation to highlight the issue in gaza. Where does hamas come into this i dont know, the ships were turkish, greek and american.

I'd prefer if the blockade was lifted, since palestinians are humans too, no matter how evil and naughty they are. But like i said opression of people is nothing new, i just hope i'm never in the victim position.

 

[DanelMadr]

The ship wasn't averted for inspection, the ship was never permitted to enter gaza in the first place. Israel wanted the ships to land at a different harbour where they would 'deliver the aid themselves', but the organisation declined saying that the aid would not reach the people. The whole issue of building materials and other equipment being confiscated.

Point? There is a embargo on Gaza for reasons of pressure on Hamas. People there suffer...that's bad but that is what happens when you tolerate fanatics to rule you.

The fleet left knowing that they would be asked to divert but they wanted to make a show of refusing to cooperate. It was a provokation to highlight the issue in gaza. Where does hamas come into this i dont know, the ships were turkish, greek and american.

O.K. but when you refuse to cooperate by attacking the police you get shot.
Gandhi's approach works better but they wanted martyrdom...they received that.
Hamas come into this, because Hamas is the reason for embargo. You want to lift embargo-you helping Hamas. Wanna help the people? Help them get rid of Hamas and restore democracy...so every vote counts not just a firepower.

I'd prefer if the blockade was lifted, since palestinians are humans too, no matter how evil and naughty they are. But like i said opression of people is nothing new, i just hope i'm never in the victim position.

You have to look around the corner, man. If you only see suffering of people and wanna help...you are doing no good, because you have to beat the cause of suffering. And then you either see the reason as fanatics having ridiculous demands on Israel and attacking it whenever they have a chance or you see the reason of suffering because Israel exists. What is it?

If you refuse look around the corner, fine, but then be humanitarian and don't side with fanatics attacking police...it is not humanitarian. Attackin police so you can use their reaction for political gain is not humanitarian it is dirty politics.

But seriously, you mentioned jewish conspiracy...I think you don't care about palestinians you just want the Jews to suffer, because they appear the strong one.

 

[BigJimbo]

You guys are all Americans. Obvious. You get a different news. Direct from Tel Aviv.

 

[DanelMadr]

You guys are all Americans. Obvious. You get a different news. Direct from Tel Aviv.

You are wrong.
I come from former Sov-bloc country, I can smell b.s. miles away and I'm telling you there are no peace protesters in western world....just commies, fanatics and useful fools.

Use your head not your hate.

 

[Bladerunner]

The ship wasn't averted for inspection, the ship was never permitted to enter gaza in the first place. Israel wanted the ships to land at a different harbour where they would 'deliver the aid themselves', but the organisation declined saying that the aid would not reach the people. The whole issue of building materials and other equipment being confiscated.

Yeah, for the record, Israel towed the flotilla ships to Ashdod port, unloaded all the humanitarian aid, and immediately put the legal items (essentially everything but concrete) on a truck convoy to Gaza where Hamas promptly refused to accept them:

Israel has attempted to deliver humanitarian aid from an international flotilla to Gaza, but Hamas - which controls the territory - has refused to accept the cargo, the Israel Defense Forces said Wednesday.

Palestinian sources said trucks that arrived from Israel at the Rafah terminal at the Israel-Gaza border were barred from delivering the aid over protests that members of the flotilla were not delivering the materials.

Right, because who's delivering the materials really matters. Also, no one seems to be paying attention to the 15,000 tons of aid Israel sends to Gaza every single day.

Israel had 20 trucks of aid found on the ships, such as expired medications, clothing, blankets, some medical equipment and toys.

Under Israeli policy, humanitarian aid must come through Israel and be
checked by Israeli authorities who are looking to intercept smuggled weapons bound for militants aiming to attack Israel.

As part of this policy Israel forbids ships from dropping off goods at
Gaza ports and works to thwart smuggling via tunnels between Gaza and Egypt.

From: http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2010/06/02/idf-hamas-stops-flotilla-aid-delivered-by-israel/

 

[Ease]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBVUrH7MZH0&feature=related

Haha, my man John Snow destroys isreal's spokesperson on channel 4. Wish i saw that live.

 

[DJDamage]

Haha, my man John Snow destroys isreal's spokesperson on channel 4. Wish i saw that live.

He didn't destroy nothing, the interviewer blew alot of hot smoke by raising a hypothetical situation that never happened and wasn't going to happen. There was no war ship acompanying the following aid ship a few days later and there were no deaths on that aid ship once it was intercepted (they never attacked the boarding soldiers). What did occur was Hamas refusing the aid and using their own people to gain political points.

The reality is that you and some others do secretly want the destruction of the state of Israel to occur but you are not saying it.

 

[CRUSHER]

The reality is that you and some others do secretly want the destruction of the state of Israel to occur but you are not saying it.

Noam Chomsky a very famous jew:

Chomsky has made major criticisms of the Israeli government, supporters of the Israeli government, the United States' support of the Israeli government, and the Israeli government's treatment of the Palestinian people, arguing that " 'supporters of Israel' are in reality supporters of its moral degeneration and probable ultimate destruction", and that "Israel's very clear choice of expansion over security may well lead to that consequence."[86] Chomsky disagreed with the founding of Israel as a Jewish state, saying, "I don't think a Jewish or Christian or Islamic state is a proper concept. I would object to the United States as a Christian state."


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noam_Chomsky

Holocaust survivor who was not on this flotilla but is planning to join another one even after the incident that happened:

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/wo...gaza-flotilla-is-safe-in-cyprus-95253484.html

List of videos from actual Rabbis who say Zionism and the state of Israel is not compatible with Judaism and that Israel is unjustly oppressing Palestinians

http://www.google.com/search?q=jews...esult_group&ct=title&resnum=5&ved=0CEIQqwQwBA

Jewish group for breaking the blockade on gaza planning on sending their own aid:

http://mondoweiss.net/2010/06/jewish-group-said-to-prepare-boat-to-go-to-gaza.html

more specifics:
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/1,7340,L-3899915,00.html

Look at this link for Orthodox Jews condemning Israel's attack as a Zionist attack and greeting an injured flotilla member. The group is called Jews United Against Zionism.

http://www.nkusa.org/

Jews calling the Israeli prime minister a monster:
Naomi Binder Wall, a member of the International Jewish anti-Zionist Network, explained why the protesters believe Mr. Netanyahu is a war criminal.

“We believe he's a war criminal. It's documented. He's violated international law. During his first term as Prime Minister, which ended in 1999, he presided over executions, and torture of Palestinian prisoners, which goes on to this day.

http://www.thecanadiancharger.com/page.php?id=5&a=450

Albert Einstein arguing against the creation of a Jewish state. He even called the first settlers a misled and criminal people

http://www.opednews.com/articles/ALBERT-EINSTEIN-ON-PALESTI-by-Edward-Corrigan-100110-905.html

Now, I am not saying Israel shouldn't exist and in fact if it can exist peacefully in the region then it should. But if you have Haredi Jews, Orthodox Jews, Secular Jews, Famous Jews, Holocaust Survivors and international Jews all criticizing or even outright against the state of Israel... well I'll leave it up to your conclusions with all this evidence from the mouth of Jews themselves.