is skinnyguy.net a good choice for me?

[Hornet]

Originally posted by MrLuvr
It looks to me like this Anthony Ellis guy is nothing but a hack. All these guys keep telling you about HOW GREAT this program is and how you should shell out $70. But, I have seen NO CONSTRUCTIVE advice from these guys. It is just "buy the program". Give me a break. Sounds like shilling to me. Why don't you tell us why it is so great? Why don't you impart some of that knowledge here?

Anyway, from Anthony Ellis' blog. Here is the meal plan he advices for somebody trying to gain weight:

Breakfast: 3 hard boiled eggs (prepared in advance) and 3 slices of
bread. An egg sandwich

Snack: High protein/low sugar bar

Lunch: Wendy's chx salad, w/italian dressing (not creamy italian)

Snack: Ready to drink Meal replacement (low sugar/ high whey ratio)

Dinner: burrito with chicken, rice, cheese and salsa

Snack: Protein shake (whey, casein and 2 tbsp of xvirgin olive oil)

Come on, he is telling the guy to eat a chicken salad for lunch, BUT a burrito with rice at night. This is not the way to gain lean muscle.

The man is a hack. Save your $70.

Yeh, there's no magic there.

 

[Oxide]

The reason me and Pook are not going to defend against of you guys who do nothing but jump from one conclusion to another..is simply becuase there has been so much info posted here about the program that those who WANTED already GAINED muscle. Those who dont have the balls to try it, still sitting around doing nothing buy whining.

I now understand why Pook doesnt post as much, you guys are ****ing retarded if you dont get the point after pages and pages of useful info.



Oh, one more thing. Currently we have people who are actually in grad school going for medicine, and people who have been lifting for many many years and doing it PROPERLY. We can find answers to any supplement question. We can tell everything you need to know about how your body works.

 

[Lifeforce]

Everyone doesn't agree with you, live with it oxide. I will not tolerate people badmouthing DIESEL behind his back. There are good info besides the skinny guy program even if you don't believe this. DIESELs guide is a really good one no matter what people might say. People who are too lazy to understand it shouldn't be lifting.

 

[MindOverMatter]

Pook never posts much. He'll come every once in a while and post a ton of info, then leave. It's how he operates.

As for Skinnyguy.net, you can get the same info for FREE.

You want science?

http://www.hypertrophy-research.com

You will find dozens and dozens of medical studies from pubmed and other online journal databases that your very same med school posters use.

You want a free science based workout routine / philosophy?

http://hypertrophy-specific.com

You want a guide as to how to properly do the exercises, different workout routines, diet methods, contest preperation, etc?

http://www.bodybuilding.com

You can find EVERYTHING you need workout-related on the internet. Paying $70 to Anthony Ellis is a waste.

And the reason Pook got slammed (and rightly so) was because he posted this:

Even worse, the 'experts', which are just big muscled guys, have a problem with basic communication and science, and their result generally results to like Diesel's "OMG do X amount of reps with Y type of exercise on Day Z!!!1" If health is important to you, I'd consider more than testosterone stylized blather. "suk it up guys!!!! I squatted 600 lbs in the gym!! OMG, I'm da man!!"

That's f*cking disrespectful. Diesel went out of his way to spread his workout knowledge on the forum, and he gets slammed for it and gets labeled a dumbass juicehead by some ignorant lifter that was to lazy to do his own research and paid another guy $70.. That's just plain f*cking rude. I'd be pretty pissed off if I went through the trouble of writting a guide only to have that sh!t said about me.

If you guys want people to buy the skinnyguy.net guide (and maybe you don't Oxide, but Pook is obviously advertising it), how about posting some workout progress photos.

Show people how it worked for you, instead of stating that it's a "higher way of working out that simple gym juiceheads wouldn't understand". Get off your high horse and get over yourself lol.

 

[Lifeforce]

Amen Brother. Your posts always make a good point MoM.

 

[Oxide]

Lifeforce, believe it or not, i've used DIESEL's guide for a year. I gained 15lbs... but the thing was, most of that was fat. That is the problem with his guide. He tells you what to do in the gym, but when it comes to the diet, people are still clueless. When i started on Skinnyguy program the first week i lost 5 lbs. I was furious, wondering WTF?! Then people explained to me that all that "muscle" i though i gained was nothing but fat.
I am giving props to Diesel for at least putting SOMETHING out there, but, in realtiy, for naturally skinny guys AE's program is much better.

MOM, you are proving out point exactly. Look at all the links you posted.. who the **** is going to go and spend 20 hours a day reading through all that? This is what pook is talking about, TIME vs MONEY.

Funny you talk about results. We just had a contest end, and although i'd love to show you the photos of all the members who participated, you need the username/pass.

Here is the breakdown for new users, this is 12 weeks on the program:

GD -18lbs muscle +1.5 inches to the chest
AS- lost 6 lbs of fat, gained 12 lbs of mass
Ry4n - gained 14lbs
Geo - gained 8 lbs, added 2.5 inches to chest.


I think this is pretty ****ing good.

 

[MindOverMatter]

MOM, you are proving out point exactly. Look at all the links you posted.. who the **** is going to go and spend 20 hours a day reading through all that? This is what pook is talking about, TIME vs MONEY.

I thought Pook preached self-improvement and being the best man you can be?

It doesn't take 20 hrs a day. You can read the whole HST concept in 20 mins or less. You can read the Hypertrophy Research studies in like an hour. If you skip the actual study info and just read the conclusions of each study, you can finish it in 30 mins.

You don't have to read it all at once, I usually read it for 5-15 mins, then go and do something else (just like sosuave).

I don't consider this a waste of time for 2 reasons:

1.) Learning stuff you can apply practically is always useful.
2.) I do personal training at the moment and it helps me perform my job better, which gets me more clients, which makes me more money.
3.) Education is never a waste of time.

As for the results, they are very nice, but that's also new users. To me that translates into beginners gains. I gained around 23 lbs post-cutting during my first 3-4 months of working out. When you first start working out, you have so much unused muscle tissue that you immediatly baloon up. Give it a while and the gains slow down.

I'm not saying skinnyguy doesn't work, I'm saying that it's not necessery because you have to pay for it, and all that info can be gotten for free.

Also, look at some of the journals on H&F forum, lifeforce's in particular. These guys have made solid gains without paying Anthony Elis $70. Reading this you may think I'm against skinnyguy, I'm not really man! I am happy that people are getting into shape, no matter how they do it (as long as they don't take gear). I just thought Pook's remark about Diesel was uncalled for. Come on, the guy is one of the reasons this H&F forum exists today and he put a ton of effort into helping people out. His information is very good and it's free, no need to flame the guy (especially behind his back). And if Pook wants people to go pay Anthony Elis money like his signature says, then at least he should put up some photos and show the readers how it worked for him.

 

[Pook]

That's f*cking disrespectful. Diesel went out of his way to spread his workout knowledge on the forum, and he gets slammed for it and gets labeled a dumbass juicehead by some ignorant lifter that was to lazy to do his own research and paid another guy $70.. That's just plain f*cking rude. I'd be pretty pissed off if I went through the trouble of writting a guide only to have that sh!t said about me.

I thought Diesel's guide was great. It helped me get into working out. But there were some issues with it.

1) I have no idea who Diesel is. He is a guy on a message forum. As such, anything said ought to be taken with a grain of salt (as with anyone who puts stuff on a message forum, myself, yourself, everyone included).

2) Most bodybuilders post their actions, not the science that causes the reactions. Saying eat X amount of this and Y amount of that isn't helpful. We need to know how our bodies work and what chemical reactions occur that make us get fat, lose fat, gain muscle, lose muscle, etc. etc.

3) If I need more information, how do I get it? The poster on the forum or the website may or may not give me additional information.

4) What we do biases what we believe.

Number 4 is the important one. Let us say I go crazy and write a book called, "Women Are Evil". The time and actions I put into that book will bias my beliefs. The bias will be that I WILL think 'women are evil' because I spent all that time and action for the book. If someone said, "Women Are Good", I would go, "What! That cannot be!" because if I believed that, my book would be invalidated which means I wasted a lot of time and ego.

Or here is another example. Let us say I am running for office, say, Dogcatcher Pook! I want people to vote for me. After all, there is a oversurplus of dogs running around. So I ask everyone in the town to place a little plastic doggie statue in their windows, to spread the cause of the dog problem. Does it do anything? No. But the action taken to put the dog there and the symbol of it adds bias to my cause.

Or a real life example would be Victory Gardens in World War 2.

Let us say our typical body builder wanders into the forum. He does 18,000,000,000 crunches a day. He blares into the forum: "oMG, MY AbS ArE Da $hIt!!!111" (Your body generates more testosterone to build up the muscle. Testosterone has interesting effects on people, such as jazzing up their written communication as well as the verbal.) The other people on the forum say, "w00t! I want da abs as well. How do I get them?"

Then you will read something like:

DaYY 1!!11:

DRINK: Super Nuper Juice!!!
EAT: GAG WAG's Testosterone Cereal!!

Crunches: 2000

DAY 2!!

Drink!: Pepto Mepto Super Liquid!
EAT: JoLLy RoGGer's ChIPpEr ChUNkS

Crunches: 5000

I could go on but the point should be obvious. First thing to notice is the screaming style. Generally, you want to follow health advice from sources that have the basic english down. Second, you don't get an explanation as how the abs work. You don't even get a selection of different ways to get your abs to be 'super'. You only get ONE WAY which is the body builder posting. If the body builder eats Gag Wag's Testosterone Cereal for breakfast, then golly, you should too!

Now factor in the action bias for thought. This guy goes and does his thing. Great. He thinks it is working for him. The symbol is his 'AwEsOmE' abs and the actions are the million crunches he is taking. This bias masks a correlation weakness:

Six pack abs are not made in the gym, they are made in the kitchen. Focusing on doing a million crunches isn't going to create abs but focusing on a certain diet WILL.

So the conclusion is that the body builder may have all the things going for him but the stuff he vomits on message forums could be entirely incorrect.

Free information is the most expensive information. When you get 'free' legal advice (not going to a lawyer), you'll find your butt in court. When you get 'free' financial information (such as from your friends and family, since why pay for 'that book' or 'seminar'), you will probably lose a lot of money. When you get 'free' advice on women, it costs a lot because you are simply cloning someone else's love life onto yours. And such a clone cannot grow and adapt except by more food given by the one who has a love life.

Sure, you can find *everything* for free now. You can get *free* legal information over the Net, but you would be dumb to go to the courthouse based on that. You can get *free* information over the net on accounting, but if you have lots of assets you would be stupid for not having it examined by an accountant.

Yes, you can find information on bodybuilding for free over the Internet. But there is a cost: time. It will take you time to sort out the good information from the bad information and then from the good information which of it applies to you and of that fitting into a mechanical system that you press 'go' and do and you become what you want.

My Dad thought he was rich by living cheap. At the end of his life, he still had no money and still had to live cheap. He valued money over time which is why he ran out of time before he ever gained money. This is why it is easy to get money from successful people but hard to get their time.

There is no *right* answer. It depends on your choice and which you value more.

 

[MindOverMatter]

Pook, there is a ton of advice posted on this H&F forum by people who follow various sports medicine research, and enjoy the science behind bodybuilding. As it is, you can find some in this very thread. Bodybuilding.com is full of it.

H&F is the forum in which I post the most, and I have yet to see one thread where a poster speaks like you stereotype him:

DaYY 1!!11:

DRINK: Super Nuper Juice!!!
EAT: GAG WAG's Testosterone Cereal!!

Crunches: 2000

DAY 2!!

Drink!: Pepto Mepto Super Liquid!
EAT: JoLLy RoGGer's ChIPpEr ChUNkS

Crunches: 5000

I could go on but the point should be obvious. First thing to notice is the screaming style. Generally, you want to follow health advice from sources that have the basic english down. Second, you don't get an explanation as how the abs work. You don't even get a selection of different ways to get your abs to be 'super'. You only get ONE WAY which is the body builder posting. If the body builder eats Gag Wag's Testosterone Cereal for breakfast, then golly, you should too!

Now factor in the action bias for thought. This guy goes and does his thing. Great. He thinks it is working for him. The symbol is his 'AwEsOmE' abs and the actions are the million crunches he is taking. This bias masks a correlation weakness:

Six pack abs are not made in the gym, they are made in the kitchen. Focusing on doing a million crunches isn't going to create abs but focusing on a certain diet WILL.

No one posts like that, and it seems like you're judging bodybuilders who don't follow Skinnyguy. Even Diesel (who had a TNT temper) posted scientific explenations when people questioned his advice. The guy's knowledge was just as good as Anthony Elis'.

Also, in almost every thread about abs, people get told that they need to lose the fat first before doing crunches so that example is flawed.

It doesn't take a lot of time to understand this, or learn to seperate good advice from the bad. Anthony Elis did it on his own, I did it on my own, Lifeforce did it on his own, Double did it on his own, Diesel did it on his own as did many other guys who post in this forum.

Just because we refuse to pay $70 so someone can spoonfeed us knowledge (that we can find for free) and save us the time of EDUCATING AND IMPROVING ourselves, does not mean that We TaLk LiKe ThIs and brag about our abs of steel without being able to offer scientific advice.

 

[Lifeforce]

Pook, when I started out I had no idea at all if something was right or wrong. But I saved alot of time by reading things I knew I could trust. First, I read things which were sticky here and on BB.com. It was like a skinny guy book which was free. like:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=316377
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=245936
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=301683


Those few links gave me alot of starting infromation I needed.

Then I trotted over at

http://www.exrx.net/Lists/Directory.html

And started to look how exercises were performed. Started to learn them and then I just went over to doing the splits. And looked at the different splits I could use when I had learnt to perform the exercises pretty well. I already knew what exercises to use and how much since I read Diesel's guide

Monday Legs/shoulders
Wednesday Back/biceps
Friday Chest/triceps

Monday Legs
Wednesday Back/biceps
Friday Chest/shoulders/triceps


DIET

The diet were pretty simply. You just had to follow diesel's guidelines and put together a diet for yourself. I went to the nearest caloric table and looked up the food I needed. It took some work but once I was finished I had made it all on my own. Just following this post a complete beginner could make his or her own program.

I don't get it why you say people pay with their time. If you do something worthwhile like learning about something you are willing to go hardcore in I don't get it why. If I were to start building my own houses I don't see it as a waste of time to learn how to do it from different sources and finding out things which necessarily won't be taught in books.

 

[Oxide]

Lifeforce, the reason time keeps coming up is becuase you dont really know what you need and what you dont need when searching online. For example, i can read all i want about ZMA stack, but 3 weeks later find out i dont need it for mass gaining..

Now, i am glad there are people gaining without use of skinnyguy program. Good for you.

However, all im saying is, this is the most simple and easiest way to learn new, useful and CORRECT infromation.

I dont need to sell AE"s program, Pook doesnt either. All i know is it was the best program i've ever been on. On that, discussion is closed.

 

[djbr]

MindOverMatter, based on the knowledge you have about lifting, you should write a guide of your own.

It will be a good alternative guide to DIESEL's.

Thanks again for the information you sent me by PM! -- you really should put it on the forums..

 

[Lifeforce]

Originally posted by Oxide
Lifeforce, the reason time keeps coming up is becuase you dont really know what you need and what you dont need when searching online. For example, i can read all i want about ZMA stack, but 3 weeks later find out i dont need it for mass gaining..

Now, i am glad there are people gaining without use of skinnyguy program. Good for you.

However, all im saying is, this is the most simple and easiest way to learn new, useful and CORRECT infromation.

I dont need to sell AE"s program, Pook doesnt either. All i know is it was the best program i've ever been on. On that, discussion is closed.

Yes you do, if you are a moron and can't think then you will not be able to tell. If you look at DIESEL's guide he will advice on what supplements to use.

 

[MindOverMatter]

Originally posted by djbr
MindOverMatter, based on the knowledge you have about lifting, you should write a guide of your own.

It will be a good alternative guide to DIESEL's.

Thanks again for the information you sent me by PM! -- you really should put it on the forums..

I'd like to write a big PDF or word file that summarizes everything, but it would be a huge time commitment. I'll prolly start writting it little by little.

 

[Pook]

Originally posted by MindOverMatter
Pook, there is a ton of advice posted on this H&F forum by people who follow various sports medicine research, and enjoy the science behind bodybuilding. As it is, you can find some in this very thread. Bodybuilding.com is full of it.

That's fine and good. I'll take your word for it as I don't currently have the time to wade through new forums currently.

What is this thread?

-Someone comes on asking about product information of skinnyguy.net.

-People gave their opinions.

-I gave my opinion. I think it is a fantastic product that saved me a lot of time (and attempted to give examples how). I even advised him to go ahead and look up all the free information. But if after all that free information if he was still frustrated, that he consider purchasing the program (since it is a good product). How anyone gets angry at this is beyond my comprehension.

-You get angry at me. Why? I thought it was that it was percieved I was *dissing* Diesel. (It is easy on the Net to be misperceived). So, like a good Pook, I tried to clear that up and elaborate. There is a lot of junk online. And a lot of information gets distorted by personality and percieved 'science'.

-You're still angry at me. The reason seems to be because I have a different opinion? OK, so what? Are you *that guy* in the gym who critiques people's workouts without them asking? I do not understand your issue. Nor do I (or anyone else) care. All you're doing is putting out strawmans saying that I am "attacking" your beliefs in all these multiple ways where I've only been addressing the thread creator and elaborating on my previous message. Truth be told, I couldn't care less what you believe or do. But someone was asking about the skinngy.net product, which I have used consistantly, so I thought I could provide my honest feedback. Why you have a problem with this, I haven't a clue.

You have made post #1, #2, #3 about me. I remain true to what I said because it is based on my past experience, which cannot be altered by more of your posts. So what are you going to get out of making posts #4, #5, #6 against this reply?

Your problem is not with me. Look within to solve it.

 

[MindOverMatter]

Pook:

I don't give advice to people in the gym (or here) without them asking me first. Neither am I angry at you (and while we are at it, no need to play the victim card, we're all men here). I am simply disagreeing with you because I feel you are being disrespectful towards this forum and people in it by posting stuff like this:

Let us say our typical body builder wanders into the forum. He does 18,000,000,000 crunches a day. He blares into the forum: "oMG, MY AbS ArE Da $hIt!!!111" (Your body generates more testosterone to build up the muscle. Testosterone has interesting effects on people, such as jazzing up their written communication as well as the verbal.) The other people on the forum say, "w00t! I want da abs as well. How do I get them?"

If you had actually bothered to read this forum Pook, you'd know that no one here posts like this. You are basically generalizing this forum, and others like it, while promoting Skinnyguy.

What I gathered from your posts was:

If we read skinnyguy forums, we're only gonna find scientific information, but if we go to bodybuilding.com or sosuave H&F, we're only gonna find junk, and retarded bodybuilders/juicers that talk like this:

As someone who has put in a lot of time studying kinesiology, sports medicine, doing my own research, and helping people here get in shape (for FREE mind you), I find your generalizations insulting and disrespectful.

DaYY 1!!11:

DRINK: Super Nuper Juice!!!
EAT: GAG WAG's Testosterone Cereal!!

Crunches: 2000

DAY 2!!

Drink!: Pepto Mepto Super Liquid!
EAT: JoLLy RoGGer's ChIPpEr ChUNkS

Crunches: 5000

And that's not the case. I'm not attacking you, I'm defending people who put in the time to research, test out, and post information here.

I'm sure skinnyguy is a great program, but you don't have to put down/generalize other bodybuilding sources in order to promote skinnyguy. There's no need to fling mud here, we're all after the same goal.

 

[Pook]

Originally posted by MindOverMatter
I am simply disagreeing with you because I feel you are being disrespectful towards this forum and people in it by posting stuff like this:

Who said I was referring to people on this forum?

Now let us say I 'disrespected' people who tAlK lIKe THiS. Are you telling me that highly muscled 300 lbs guys had their feelings hurt? And that you have taken it upon yourself to defend their honor?

What I gathered from your posts was:

If we read skinnyguy forums, we're only gonna find scientific information, but if we go to bodybuilding.com or sosuave H&F, we're only gonna find junk, and retarded bodybuilders/juicers that talk like this:

This is another strawman. The skinnyguy information comes from the product, even from scheduled chats or emails to Ellis. Any forum is as good as its posters. The advantage of a closed paid forum is that it keeps a lot of the lamers out.

As someone who has put in a lot of time studying kinesiology, sports medicine, doing my own research, and helping people here get in shape (for FREE mind you), I find your generalizations insulting and disrespectful.

I cannot control what may offend or not offend you. Like I said in the last post, the solution to whatever issue you have is with you, it cannot be resolved by me.

When someone SELLS their information, as opposed to giving it away, it means the seller believes their information is more valuable than the one giving it away. It is hard to sell a product exclusively from the internet (even Bill Gates can't seem to do it) let alone have a community around the product. The marketplace is much more demanding and discriminating than any star message poster.

And that's not the case. I'm not attacking you, I'm defending people who put in the time to research, test out, and post information here.

Thank heavens! The poor little researchers, threatened by the Big Bad Pook, (who was never referring to them) have had their sacred honor defended by the valiant MindoverMatter!

I am joking with you, of course. But I wonder if something I said hit a sensitive area without knowing. I thought what I said was funny, not enraging. For sport, I'll do it some more:

"oMg, GuYS!!11 I hAvE f0uDn Da SEcrEt t0 b0dY buILdINg!1!!!"

"WHAT!?!?!?! WHAT WHAT WHAT!?!?!?!?"

"aLm0ndS!! SecReT Iz eAtinG aLm0nds!!"

"OmG YeSh, @lMonDs PWNT!"

And then a bunch of guys start eating almonds for... some... reason.

I don't see how anyone can look at that and not laugh. It can't address to you or to anyone else unless they are actually doing it.

We need to stop taking this so seriously and start laughing more.

I'm sure skinnyguy is a great program, but you don't have to put down/generalize other bodybuilding sources in order to promote skinnyguy.

Let's see, I attacked other bodybuilding sources by recommending the person check them out first and if he was still unsatisfied, frusterated, to consider purchasing Skinnyguy. My goodness! How could I be so viciousl?

But you get what you pay for. Why don't you create a business plan around your research and sell it?

 

[MindOverMatter]

Originally posted by Pook
Who said I was referring to people on this forum?

Now let us say I 'disrespected' people who tAlK lIKe THiS. Are you telling me that highly muscled 300 lbs guys had their feelings hurt? And that you have taken it upon yourself to defend their honor?

You generalized most forums (including this one), to be full of juiceheads with broken keyboards. It's got nothing to do with hurting feelings or not hurting feelings, it's a matter of respect. No one was disrespecting skinnyguy.net, so I fail to see why you felt the need to generalize and disrespect other sources.

This is another strawman. The skinnyguy information comes from the product, even from scheduled chats or emails to Ellis. Any forum is as good as its posters. The advantage of a closed paid forum is that it keeps a lot of the lamers out.

That could be one way of looking at it. Another way of looking at it would be that a smaller forum usually has less people who know what they're talking about. And if these guys actually knew what they were talking about, they wouldn't have to pay $70 to Ellis, and wouldn't be there in the first place.

I cannot control what may offend or not offend you. Like I said in the last post, the solution to whatever issue you have is with you, it cannot be resolved by me.

Spare me your psychoanalyzing Pook. If you want to advertise skinnyguy, then feel free to do so, but at the same time don't stereotype people / forums that are not related to it.

When someone SELLS their information, as opposed to giving it away, it means the seller believes their information is more valuable than the one giving it away.

I agree, the seller does believe his information is more valuable. But does him believing it actually make it more valuable? Just because someone choses to forfeit financial gain from sharing their knowledge does not make their knowledge any less valid.

It is hard to sell a product exclusively from the internet (even Bill Gates can't seem to do it) let alone have a community around the product. The marketplace is much more demanding and discriminating than any star message poster.

I'm very happy for Anthony Ellis. He seems to be doing what he likes, and is making good money from it. However it does not make his information any better then what you can find on other websites.

eavens! The poor little researchers, threatened by the Big Bad Pook, (who was never referring to them) have had their sacred honor defended by the valiant MindoverMatter!

You didn't referr to them directly, but you basically suggested that bodybuilding forums are places full of junk information, and that Anthony Ellis' forum is the only place where you can find good information on working out. If the skinnyguy.net forum community was so gifted, they wouldn't need to pay some guy $70, they'd already know all they needed to know to make gains.

I am joking with you, of course. But I wonder if something I said hit a sensitive area without knowing. I thought what I said was funny, not enraging.

It's humor, but it's
condescending. I could easily do the same:

"Anthony I want to be buff, what do I do?!"
"Hi Anthony, you are awesome, what's a deadlift"
"Anthony, can you hold my hand and teach me how to lift simple weights? God you are buff I want your juice"
"Anthony, what's the difference between a dumbbell and a barbell? HELP"

etc etc.

Sure I'm only joking around, but it's obvious that I'm condescending as sh!t. If you see it from my point of view, it will make you laugh, if you see it from a skinnyguy point of view, chances are you will disagree with it and not find the same amount of humor I do.

Let's see, I attacked other bodybuilding sources by recommending the person check them out first and if he was still unsatisfied, frusterated, to consider purchasing Skinnyguy. My goodness! How could I be so viciousl?

No you attacked other sources by stereotyping them as overroided idiots who don't know a thing about kinesiology, while proclaiming Ellis and his minions to be gurus. The fact you told him to check out free advice after you bashed that very same advice doesn't mean anything, if he listens to anything you say, he'll be paypaling ellis as we speak.

But you get what you pay for. Why don't you create a business plan around your research and sell it?

You don't always get what you pay for. If you buy a new car and it breaks down the next day, then obviously you didn't get what you paid for. I don't think anyone in the 70s would have bought a Ford Pinto if they knew they'd explode as soon as someone rear-ended you. Ford marketed them anyway. Why? Because the potential cost of lawsuits would be meager in estimation compared to the cost of a full recall.

You don't always know what you are paying for, and just because you spend money on it doesn't make it money well spent.

I do train clients, and I do charge them for my time because when I'm training them, I can't do other things with my time. However, I don't charge people for my fitness knowledge, for the same reasons you don't charge people for your sosuave articles. I enjoy spreading knowledge, and helping people who are at the same point I was at 5 years ago. The act is its own reward, and not everything is about money (at least not to me).

 

[Double]

Pook,

i dont get why you have problems understanding MindOverMatter's points. i cant see why he has problems with himself because he defends the sosuave H+F forum? since when does a person has problems with himself because he shows selfrespect and doesnt take ****? i learned a totally different attitude from reading your other posts.

when you're saying that bodybuilding forums with meatheads like Diesel dont give scientific proven knowledge but only testorinized blatter then is it a wonder that our little H+F community feels disrespected and attacked?!

the quality of yours and MoM's jokes are about the same but one of you make me smile while the other one didnt. it's hard to laugh for a man when you feel disrespected by a guy you dont know personally.

 

[Hornet]

Assuming what works for you will work for others
AND
Asssuming what works for others will work for you
ARE both logical fallacies.

Those errors are committed constantly.

To avoid the errors,

1. Limit the types of individuals to whom your conclusion pertains.
2. Pick a conclusion that should pertain to everyone. (Unfortunately, there are so many "hidden" elements to muscular growth, that it's hard to achieve this when you're talking about building mass.)
3. Figure out what type of person the individual who is speaking is.


* erases chalkboard *