is skinnyguy.net a good choice for me?

[shagnscoob]

alright. im 16 and a half, last summer i lifted a little, ive got some dumb bells at home, but i only pick em up once or twice a month and not verymuch weight.

edit-- btw im 5'9''ish @ 145, i dont know how that equateswith you guys, but im REALLY skinny. embarassingly skinny (although i joke about it, i got the mental game of DJing downnnn)

this summer i want to atleast start getting in shape. theres a membership offer at a gym a block away from my house thats really awesome, but i can only get it until the 4th of july, so i need to go do that, and figure out what im gonna be doin in that gym hahaha


so ive been hearing alot about skinnyguy.net and how its super comprehensive and stuff, and mainly i just want to do a clean bulk, not too big though, prolly smaller than most guys on here anyway.

should i invest the $70 or whatever,or should i just find my own workout plan because what i want is fairly simple? or am i completely missing the point here?
basically i just need some advice (and a specific diet and workout routine) as a beginner hahaha


thanks guys!

 

[Lifeforce]

just go with the bulking guide here, skinnyguy.net is not any rocket science or any fancy techniques.

 

[shagnscoob]

well thats what originally thought but awhile back in a thread pook said--

What about Diesel's Guide to Bulking Up?

The guide is fine. But it won't help you. Why? Because as a newbie, you won't understand it. The guide won't show you proper techniques for each workout, what foods to eat, what supplements, no 'frame' to catapult you to success, etc.

Look, I remember when I first went into a gym. I looked at the equipment with wonder. I wasted so much time trying to figure things out. I also wasted a lot of time doing exercises improperly or unoptimally.

skinnyguy.net is set up for somone who has never gone to a gym before. It'll show you each technique so you won't feel like fool in the gym. It'll give you a good guide to diet, supplements, etc. The knowledge about dietics in the manual are things I wish I knew years ago.

thats pretty much where i stand knowledgewise, despite my effots to read whatever i could online.

 

[Lifeforce]

In this case pook is full of it. I started out with diesels guide and it made wonders for me. 5'10 started at 135 with clothes and food in gut. Now I am up at 165 with lower BF than before in little more than a year. (without food in gut and clothes on)

When I started out I looked at what diesel wrote and tried to use it, I looked up the exercises on exrx and looked at how they were performed.

http://www.exrx.net/Lists/Directory.html

During the first weeks I tried the exercises out and learnt the basic way they were performed.

I suggest you do the following exercises

Legs:
Full Squats
Straight leg (straight back) deadlifts
(leg press, hamstring curl are ok)
Standing Calves raises

Back
Deadlifts
Bent over Rows OR T-bar rows
Pull-ups
Shrugs

Delts
Military presses
bent over lateral raises

Biceps
Db or bb curls
chin-ups

Triceps
Dips
Skull crushers

Chest
Incline and flat bench press

abs
lying leg raises attached to cable machine (sen PM to mindovermatter for good ab routine when you are ready)


DIET:

It's pretty simple, eat the amount he recommends. Get some protein int he morning (whey) and some before you sleep. ((caseine = milk, cottage cheese, kvarg, etc...). Don't eat carbs after 6 pm. Get 6-8 meals a day spread out evenly.

I'll be happy to answer your questions if you have any. Save your money.

 

[Double]

you could it even make much more simple than this and still have pretty good gains espiacially in the beginning. other than that, dont be a wuss about it and just download the ****, if you think it is worth the money or you are just to nice for this world then you can always buy it even after you downloaded it, omg my english is so terrible

 

[whistler]

Here's what to eat in a nutshell for muscle gain:

Weight in lbs x 17.5 = rough daily intake in calories
145 x 17.5 = roughly 2540

divide by about 6 meals = 423 calories per meal

the carbs, protein, fat ratio is: 55:30:15

on every plate, have a 2/3 carbs, 1/3 protein
the fat will come for free, more or less

grams of protein per meal = cal per meal * .30 / 4
423 * .30 / 4 = about 32 grams of protein per meal

Eat that much protein, then fill up the additional calories (until you reach 423) with carbs.

Eat lean meat with complete amino acids, fresh vegetables, no junk, lots of water.


Basically, you need to overload your body with calories, but keep things in the right ratio and in small quantities to let your body handle it and minimize fat gain. Above are just very rough calculations.


Do maximum weight, free-weight lifting. Compound stuff only. Short and intense. No more than once per week per muscle group.

And read everything you can trust.

I just mention this stuff to save you some time. It's worked for me. I know it's a pain to be very eager and then slogged down by tediously gathering information.

Again, don't just trust me, read Deisel's guide, take other's advice. I just do what works, but it's not the center of my life, so I'm no expert.

good luck

and guys, feel free to correct me.

Point is, there's no rocket science at skinnyguy.net that the guys on this board don't know. But if you need help in keeping disciplined, why not? It's pretty cheap.

 

[Warboss Alex]

Too many carbs for me. Protein is what builds muscle, anything under 2g per lb target bodyweight is wasting your time in my opinion.

 

[Pook]

Shags, the question isn't that of money but of time. Whether we like it or not, diet and nutrition is going to be a major factor in our lives. If we don't learn it properly now, then we will be forced to learn it when we get older (as we get fatter, older, heart attacks, etc.)

What is more expensive to you, money or time? If money is more expensive to you, then feel free to try all the tricks and information you find over the Internet. If time is more expensive to you, then you know the most expensive information in life is free.

Health and Fitness is one of the most hyped up industries ever. Everyday there is a new 'amazing' technique or a new 'wonder' supplement. Even worse, the 'experts', which are just big muscled guys, have a problem with basic communication and science, and their result generally results to like Diesel's "OMG do X amount of reps with Y type of exercise on Day Z!!!1" If health is important to you, I'd consider more than testosterone stylized blather. "suk it up guys!!!! I squatted 600 lbs in the gym!! OMG, I'm da man!!"

I consider the $70 investment to be very cheap since it saves me a lot of time. Also, factor in the high cost of the gym, of the time you must go to it, of it saving me money from expensive trainers and expensive supplements, and also consider that most nutritional/exercise information is not geared to the skinny guy. Most people who go to gyms are fat people (bleh) and normal people. Most skinny guys don't seem to go to the gym because they feel they are already 'fit' since they are skinny. Even to this day, I've seen little to no information on diet/exercise specific for the skinny guy metabolism. Diet/work outs do NOT fit a 'one size fit all' mentality. A skinny guy will be doing much different things in the gym and his diet than a regular guy would. Also remember the $70 gives you access to the forum, which is access to lots of like minded people just the same as you, with the same issues, and real people always giving out successes, tips, and so on. So its a never ending information.

So being far from "pook is full of it", you will be able, if you are completely consistant with the information given to you (it explains the hows and biological processes too, which most testosterone heads seem to have no knowledge of), you will be able to go into a gym and within 3 months gain 20-40 lbs of lean muscle mass. Most guys will be going to the gym and never get that far, or will be paying through their ears for trainers. Skinnyguy's information is also close to identical to the information male models get. How many people from Diesel's Guide can be underwear models?

The program is designed for you to do as less as possible with as great amount of gain. We can all look like Schwarzenegger if we spent 5 hours everyday in a gym and ate houses. But who has the time for that unless you're going to go pro?

What is more expensive to you, time or money? I think that is the big question. Feel free to try out guides from the Net. But if you feel you aren't going anywhere or that you're wasting time, strongly consider Anthony Ellis. Good information > Decent information riddled with bad information.

http://www.skinnyguy.net/blog/

 

[MindOverMatter]

Pook, do you have any personal progress photos? I've seen Anthony Ellis' ones but I mean that's biased evidence. I love reading anything fitness related and would probably try out his routine, but it would be nice to see some unbiased proof that it's good info.

 

[Double]

actually most bodybuilding forums preach the same principles as the skinnyguy program. the only difference is that in every forum there are many guys who only want to brag or talk **** because they dont know better.

 

[EFFORT]

Save that $70 and use it to get protein powder from trueprotein.com


Then read this first

http://www.ironaddicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2229

Then this

http://www.ironaddicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2230


Then go here to see videos of the exercises

http://www.exrx.net/Lists/Directory.html

You can find a lot of information with a google search about exercises too



Then read this

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=72890

And ask questions after

 

[MindOverMatter]

Originally posted by Warboss Alex
Too many carbs for me. Protein is what builds muscle, anything under 2g per lb target bodyweight is wasting your time in my opinion.

I'm going to have to disagree. Protein builds muscle yes, but carbs play a HUGE role in helping protein build muscle. In my opinion, high carb is the way to go. Here are my reasons:

Carbs are basically sugar. You have simple sugars (saccharides, di-saccharides and multiple sugars like oligo-saccharides).

You also have complex carbs and starches that contain even higher amounts of sugar, but release them more slowly into the bloodstream.

What is the purpose of carbohydrates? Carbohydrates convert to glucose, and create a high sugar level in your bloodstream. Why do we do this?

i.) high blood sugar level stimulates pancreas to start producing insulin. Insulin in return stimulates certain cell recepotors to absorb more nutrients such as protein. This is one of the reasons why we put carbs (whether they be dextrose, fructose or whatever) into our post-workout protein shakes. However, we should always be doing this. With every protein meal, we should include enough carbs (both simple and complex) to always have high insulin in our body, and make our protein absorbtion function at 200% efficiency.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the goal of bodybuilding to work your muscles out, and then fill them up with protein so they can grow? By taking in lots of protein and few carbs, your blood sugar is low, and you CANNOT absorb all of that protein you're taking in. So what happens? What does your body do with the excess protein that the muscles cannot absorb? It's excremented away, or stored as fat.

This is a bad way to train!

ii.) Carbs also convert to glycogen. Glycogen is the primary creator of your body's MAIN energy source: Adenosine Tri-Phosphate (ATP). If you are eating low carb, your ATP levels will be low, and as a result you will have weaker workouts then you would if you ate the proper amount of carbs. If you want to avoid plateaus, you need high storages of Glycogen in your body!

iii.) 1 GRAM OF GLYCOGEN creates 2.7 GRAMS of WATER inside your muscle. So you are gaining 3.7 grams of muscle mass per 1g of glycogen. Now you will say "BUT MIND, THAT'S WATER", yes it is! Water however INCREASES THE VOLUME of the cell, which in turn CREATES MORE SPACE and allows the muscle to ABSORB PROTEIN and micronutrients in HIGH AMOUNTS.

If you want to get big, you have to have a high carb intake AS WELL as a high protein intake! Saying protein is the only thing that builds muscle is WRONG. You need a GOOD carb intake, otherwise the protein is USELESS.

Secondly, the protein intake. In one of my sports nutrition classes we went over a study in which they were trying to determine maximum protein absorption.

Results for the study indicated that the recommended daily intake for an ordinary person is 1.5g per Kilogram, while the maximum amount your body can absorb (for those who need it, like bodybuilders) is 2g PER Kilogram. Any excess protein is either excremented away, or stored as fat.

My prof (who was a f*cking huge btw) joked about how most bodybuilders have the world's most expensive sh!ts. They take in so much protein that their body ends up sh!tting half of it.

Now, he never convinced me to take in 2g per kilogram. Not all protein sources have different absorption rates. For example, eggs have a 90% absorption rate while chicken has a 70%. Why powder is even higher then eggs btw.

So say the maximum amount I can absorb is 2g a day, and I eat exactly 194g of protein like I'm supposed to. With different absorption rates of protein, I may not absorb all of it. So even tho I take in 194grams of protein, my body may only absorb 150-160 grams. That's not enough.

So I do tend to eat more protein then the max. Generally I eat 2.5g per kilogram, or 1.3g per pound (if you read the bulking guide, diesel advocates the same). This puts me in at around 250g per day. This ensures that I do reach my max protein absorption quota, without gaining too much excess fat.

2g per pound is just too much (unless you're juicing). Way more then your body can absorb (especially since you don't eat as many carbs), and unnecessery. You will sh!t most of it away, and that which you don't will get stored as fat. I don't see the point. I don't like this trend in bodybuilding where people get ridiculously fat and bloated, then cut down just to put on muscle mass. You can get big without getting a gut.

Efficiency is key here. Know your body.

 

[Oxide]

I cannot stress enough the importance of skinyguy program if you are an ectomorph (naturally skinny). There is a very big difference why this program works better than anything else out there for skinny guys. Anthony Ellis has done a wonderful job breaking it down in common terms and setting up a VERY DETAILED plan for you to follow. Anyone can say "Go to Gym and do bench press and squats" but this isnt it. Skinnyguy is science almost. You calculate everything to the last detail, so you get the MOST muscle gain while trying to bulk up within the shortest amount of time.

One thing i must mention. I'd say 90-95% of people who buy the skinnyguy program will still fail. Not because the program doesnt work, but becuase they are not dedicated and hungry (for the weight gain). I personally know 3 guys who have been on the program for weeks now, and b1tch to me because they are not gaining much. The number 1 thing you ABSOLUTELY must have in order to achieve anything is consistency . I myself was half assing the program for awhile, and then b1tching to people on the forum about it. The thing i really appreciate is that guys on the forum there actually help you. They look over your diet and help you fix it. After that moment, i've been doing nothing but gaining. However, like i said, You MUST be dedicated, and prepare to sacrifice some things in order to achieve that great body you always wanted.

 

[Warboss Alex]

MindOverMatter - you need a high food intake in general, but I'd never eat more carbs than I would protein for the simple reason that I eat the protein on my plate first, then veggies and THEN complex carbs so I'm too full of protein to pig out on pasta, rice, etc. - that way the maximum amount of protein gets absorbed without inteference from other nutrients.

Not saying that carbs aren't essential - they are, especially pre-, pwo and ppwo - but if you don't get your 2g per lb target bodyweight in protein before you even think about carbs, then don't expect to grow very fast. If you're a beginner and/or young (as most of you guys are) you'll grow off nearly anything, but when you're past your 'beginner gains' stuff then you'll find that boatloading carbs (especially in your daft 'bulk' cycles) will just mean you end up a fat bastard and then you'll lose most of your newly gained muscle dieting the fat off. Not the way to go, IMO.

About the absorption stuff - I disagree since every body is different and much depends on metabolism and genetics. Whey has the highest bioavailability though, you're correct.

No offence mate, but you're taking in your 194 g of protein per kg bodyweight every day and how big are you? I'm assuming of course that your goal IS to get big - you've got a good, lean physique (and probably a decent metabolism) according to your pics and if you're happy with it then fair play to you, personally I'm always striving to get bigger and stronger so this is how I train, always have and always will.

And I never saw an experienced (2-3 years training at least), natural trainer over 200lbs who didn't have to get in 2g per lb to get bigger (except a blessed one or two with brilliant genetics).

 

[MindOverMatter]

Originally posted by Warboss Alex
MindOverMatter - you need a high food intake in general, but I'd never eat more carbs than I would protein for the simple reason that I eat the protein on my plate first, then veggies and THEN complex carbs so I'm too full of protein to pig out on pasta, rice, etc. - that way the maximum amount of protein gets absorbed without inteference from other nutrients.

Not saying that carbs aren't essential - they are, especially pre-, pwo and ppwo - but if you don't get your 2g per lb target bodyweight in protein before you even think about carbs, then don't expect to grow very fast. If you're a beginner and/or young (as most of you guys are) you'll grow off nearly anything, but when you're past your 'beginner gains' stuff then you'll find that boatloading carbs (especially in your daft 'bulk' cycles) will just mean you end up a fat bastard and then you'll lose most of your newly gained muscle dieting the fat off. Not the way to go, IMO.

Beginner gains do not apply here, I've been working out for 3+ years.

Boatloading anything will make you fat, including protein. If you are eating way more protein then your body can absorb, it gets exremented/stored as fat. Which part of this do you not comprehend? I've been eating high carb for 3 years now, and as you can see I do not have a big gut.

that way the maximum amount of protein gets absorbed without inteference from other nutrients.

Did you not read what I posted about carbohydrates?

Again (i'll put it in bold so you can't miss it):

high blood sugar level stimulates pancreas to start producing insulin. Insulin in return stimulates certain cell recepotors to absorb more nutrients such as protein. This is one of the reasons why we put carbs (whether they be dextrose, fructose or whatever) into our post-workout protein shakes. However, we should always be doing this. With every protein meal, we should include enough carbs (both simple and complex) to always have high insulin in our body, and make our protein absorbtion function at 200% efficiency.

Carbs DO NOT interfere with protein absorption, they IMPROVE it.

and again:

1 GRAM OF GLYCOGEN creates 2.7 GRAMS of WATER inside your muscle. So you are gaining 3.7 grams of muscle mass per 1g of glycogen. Now you will say "BUT MIND, THAT'S WATER", yes it is! Water however INCREASES THE VOLUME of the cell, which in turn CREATES MORE SPACE and allows the muscle to ABSORB PROTEIN and micronutrients in HIGH AMOUNTS.

Again, carbs volumize your muscle cells, and allow them to absorb higher amounts of protein then they would be able to normally!

Carbs DO NOT interfere with protein absorption, they IMPROVE it.

About the absorption stuff - I disagree since every body is different and much depends on metabolism and genetics. Whey has the highest bioavailability though, you're correct.

Sigh, the typical bodybuilder "every body is different" talk. I guess I should explain this. I've done a lot of research during my grad school, and there are some things I should explain about how university studies are conducted.

Do I have your attention?

When a study, a university study is conducted, it tends to use a high number of participants. The higher the number of participants (30 participants is the minimum, otherwise the study has no validity or reliability), the more accurate the study. While the study may not involve a genetic freak like Ronnie Coleman, it will include individuals with different ranges of genetics. In the results section of the study, each individual will have different results. Hence you are right, every body IS different, and THAT IS A PART OF THE STUDY'S GUIDELINES.

Bodybuilders tend to think that every scientific study is just based on ONE guy. It's not, they use dozens of people. People who gain muscle easily, AND hardgainers.

If the study says the max amount of protein a human body can absorb is 2g / KG of bodyweight, then that means that 2g IS THE MAX. The study considers the facts that each body can absorb different amounts, however the MOST your body can absorb before storing it as fat or excrementing it is 2g/KG.

the excess amount is stored as fat, or excremented.

No offence mate, but you're taking in your 194 g of protein per kg bodyweight every day and how big are you? I'm assuming of course that your goal IS to get big - you've got a good, lean physique (and probably a decent metabolism) according to your pics and if you're happy with it then fair play to you, personally I'm always striving to get bigger and stronger so this is how I train, always have and always will.

And I never saw an experienced (2-3 years training at least), natural trainer over 200lbs who didn't have to get in 2g per lb to get bigger (except a blessed one or two with brilliant genetics).

Did you even read my post? It seems you just breezed through it. Maybe the carbohydrate part was too hard to read through and you got bored and just skipped through.

I have already said that I don't eat 194g (even tho that's my bodily max), I eat around 250-260grams per day, due to different absorption rates of various protein foods.

My body weight (as I have ALREADY mentioned):

before I ever exercised (5 years ago): 230lbs, 26-30% bodyfat
after losing the fat(3 years ago): 170lbs, 9% or so bodyfat.
current: 214lbs, 10.4% bodyfat

According to you, I'm an experianced lifter (3+ years), and I am over 200 lbs (214 to be exact). During my 3 years of lifting, I have gained 44 lbs, and my current bodyfat is in the same range as it was when I first started working out.

The whole time, I *never* *once* ate 2g/lb of protein. My daily intake was always 1.2-1.3g/lbs. I don't believe in doing excess anything - whether it's sets, or eating. Efficiency is key.

And no, I don't have awesome genetics. And yes, I know others who follow similar nutritional guidelines. If you read the bulking guide, Diesel will advocate the same, and there are hundreds of people on bodybuilding.com who also know that anything more then 1.3g/lbs is just extra fat. Not to mention my prof who's had 10-15 years of lifting experiance and is well over 270 lbs advocated the same.

Due to their obsession with getting bigger, most bodybuilders think more is better. More sets, more protein, more everything. It's not about "more" it's about efficiency. Precision is KEY. Perfect rep, perfect set, perfect workout, perfect diet, perfect gains.

 

[Lifeforce]

Pook no disrespect intended. But you discredit diesels guide pretty hard implying it's a all muscle head talk. I've read the skinny guy program and there is not anything new in it. You can find that info for free everywhere in condensed form, in EFFORTs link there's a ****load of good info.

DIESEL's guide is very simple to use, I had no trouble at all using it. And it does work and I've never seen DIESEL say "HEy boys.. I squatted 600 pounds.. listen to me you skinny freaks". In fact he was very knowledgeable and gave good advice. Don't discredit him like a juiced musclehead. The guide works even for hard gainers. Remember it's a guideline he set up, from there you have to tweak it to your own body. Skinny guy program is the same, you follow a set way of exercises and reps so don't give me that.

If the experts are big muscles guys without using steroids then you should lsiten to them because they obviously knwo what works. There is a lot of people who were skinny and then bulked up real good. I don't know why you seem to talk like anthony ellis is the second comming of christ but there are alot fo people who know what they are talking about, even at this board, (MoM is a good example). And as a complete beginner you don't need to know exactly how the body reacts to everything, it's enough to see that your legs grow if you squat alot and your back becomes better if you deadlift alot. Personally I think the term "hardgainer" is very hyped up too. There are few real hard gainers out there. This guy obviously doesn't seem to be one of them.

 

[penkitten]

Originally posted by shagnscoob


should i invest the $70 or whatever,or should i just find my own workout plan because what i want is fairly simple?

dude , never pay for something that you can get for free.

there are lots of work out guides on here that you can use for free.
thats why the fellas posted them here.

 

[MindOverMatter]

Originally posted by Lifeforce
Pook no disrespect intended. But you discredit diesels guide pretty hard implying it's a all muscle head talk. I've read the skinny guy program and there is not anything new in it. You can find that info for free everywhere in condensed form, in EFFORTs link there's a ****load of good info.

DIESEL's guide is very simple to use, I had no trouble at all using it. And it does work and I've never seen DIESEL say "HEy boys.. I squatted 600 pounds.. listen to me you skinny freaks". In fact he was very knowledgeable and gave good advice. Don't discredit him like a juiced musclehead. The guide works even for hard gainers. Remember it's a guideline he set up, from there you have to tweak it to your own body. Skinny guy program is the same, you follow a set way of exercises and reps so don't give me that.

If the experts are big muscles guys without using steroids then you should lsiten to them because they obviously knwo what works. There is a lot of people who were skinny and then bulked up real good. I don't know why you seem to talk like anthony ellis is the second comming of christ but there are alot fo people who know what they are talking about, even at this board, (MoM is a good example). And as a complete beginner you don't need to know exactly how the body reacts to everything, it's enough to see that your legs grow if you squat alot and your back becomes better if you deadlift alot. Personally I think the term "hardgainer" is very hyped up too. There are few real hard gainers out there. This guy obviously doesn't seem to be one of them.

Diesel had a TNT temper, however, when it came to working out, nutrition, etc, he was smart as f*ck. His bulking/cutting guides are some of the best out there, and they're very simple to follow for the average beginner. Too bad he doesn't post here anymore.

 

[MrLuvr]

It looks to me like this Anthony Ellis guy is nothing but a hack. All these guys keep telling you about HOW GREAT this program is and how you should shell out $70. But, I have seen NO CONSTRUCTIVE advice from these guys. It is just "buy the program". Give me a break. Sounds like shilling to me. Why don't you tell us why it is so great? Why don't you impart some of that knowledge here?

Anyway, from Anthony Ellis' blog. Here is the meal plan he advices for somebody trying to gain weight:

Breakfast: 3 hard boiled eggs (prepared in advance) and 3 slices of
bread. An egg sandwich

Snack: High protein/low sugar bar

Lunch: Wendy's chx salad, w/italian dressing (not creamy italian)

Snack: Ready to drink Meal replacement (low sugar/ high whey ratio)

Dinner: burrito with chicken, rice, cheese and salsa

Snack: Protein shake (whey, casein and 2 tbsp of xvirgin olive oil)

Come on, he is telling the guy to eat a chicken salad for lunch, BUT a burrito with rice at night. This is not the way to gain lean muscle.

The man is a hack. Save your $70.

 

[Hornet]

Gaining mass works like this:

Prepare you body for muscle fiber growth. You do this by doing really intense, compound lifting. Deadlifts and squats are key. They will scare the $hit out of your body, which is exactly what you want.

Eat a lot in the right amounts. See above.

Your body will then direct that flood of nutrients into muscle repair and growth.

That last bit takes time. It's best to try a week between muscle groups, and workout no more than 2 to 3 times per week.

Shock your muscles, feed them like crazy, and rest. Simple.

Oddly, the least amount of time in the gym is the most effective at gaining mass early on.