Is ANY dating coach actually effective?

[Serenity]

Even the most effective dating coach is ineffective if you don't do the work. With or without a coach, the willingness to learn and try stuff outside your comfort zone is the single most important part of developing game. The coach is just a support, you have to do the lifting either way.

I never went for a coach or spent any money on this myself. I found free online resources and didn't need to pay someone to kick me in the ass to go try it out, some guys prefer that though, but it doesn't change the fact that your own effort is crucial.

 

[FlirtLife]

Doc Love. Buy his book.

Doc Love is all you need if you are dating to find a relationship, which I think most men on this site are. It's the ONLY way to find a woman that will work for you long term ...

I hope you're talking about something other than the 2002 paperback selling for $180.00 on Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/System-Dating-Dictionary-Doc-Love/dp/B000MW7AGI/

Or you can buy it from a website for $99
"For $99 you can get the book mailed to you ..."

Doc Love

Dating tips for guys

www.doclove.com

 

[RangerMIke]

I hope you're talking about something other than the 2002 paperback selling for $180.00 on Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/System-Dating-Dictionary-Doc-Love/dp/B000MW7AGI/

Or you can buy it from a website for $99
"For $99 you can get the book mailed to you ..."

Doc Love

Dating tips for guys

www.doclove.com

It's expensive because it is worth it. But like I said, if you want the same content, you can get Cory Wayne's book, but then you have to wade through all his bullcr@p filler and Tony Robbins BS. Wayne's book is basically Doc Love with 90% pointless rambling like a fvcking chick.

But here you go in a VERY condensed nutshell:
(1) Bust your @ss and be the best version of yourself you can be.
(2) Get out and go to places where women are.
(3) Make dates (with confidence).
(4) When you get resistance, move on.
(5) Keep making dates.
(6) Understand that there is NOTHING you can do that will make you attractive to any one woman. She either likes you for who you are or she doesn't. If she doesn't, don't waste your time with her.... go find chicks that work for you.
(7) Never chase a woman: let women chase you (be a challenge).
(8) Never let anything a woman does or doesn't do push you off your center (Self-control). Be non-reactive, don't get too happy when things are going well, don't get bvtt hurt when you don't get what you want.

Other Doc Love truisms:
(1) Don't lie to women because there is a very good chance she knows you are lying.
(2) A woman can not love you if she doesn't respect you.
(3) The 'system' works if you are looking for women that fit your life and what you want, so be patient.
(4) If the 'system' does not work on a chick then she isn't right for you, not available, or she is crazy, you don't want either of these types. You do not want women in your life that you are going to have to bust you bvtt to keep because that will only only lead to misery. People do not change, never think you have to change for her, or let her change you. No one should tolerate crazy. Never waste time on a chick that is, or thinks she is, in a relationship.. too much drama and that seldom works out.

 

[SW15]

Doc Love VERY condensed nutshell:
(1) Bust your @ss and be the best version of yourself you can be.
(2) Get out and go to places where women are.
(3) Make dates (with confidence).
(4) When you get resistance, move on.
(5) Keep making dates.
(6) Understand that there is NOTHING you can do that will make you attractive to any one woman. She either likes you for who you are or she doesn't. If she doesn't, don't waste your time with her.... go find chicks that work for you.
(7) Never chase a woman: let women chase you (be a challenge).
(8) Never let anything a woman does or doesn't do push you off your center (Self-control). Be non-reactive, don't get too happy when things are going well, don't get bvtt hurt when you don't get what you want.

I read some Doc Love in the 2000s. The long lasting thing for me was challenge. I don't think Doc Love made me a red pill person but it moved me further towards that point. Additionally, Doc Love content did not solve my dating issues at that time. Perhaps I did not implement it well in my life. If Doc Love content had worked for me, I don't think I would have discovered Roosh or Rollo later in life.

In looking at these 8 items, there are some good things here.

#2 is good advice but difficult. I think a lot of men struggle with getting out in the real world. That wasn't as big as problem when Doc Love was originally writing The System in the 1990s, but it has become a bigger problem since the 2000s. Online dating websites and later swipe apps grew because of how difficult it is to arrange dates in the real world. It involves a lot of real world socializing and often feels like a full time 2nd job. I think arranging dates in the real world has been more difficult in the past 10-15 years than it was in the 1990s. It wasn't easy in the 1990s from what I've observed either.

#1 and #6 are related ideas. After doing #1, #6 becomes applicable to specific women. The ideal man is 6'0"+ and fit. Most women are going be attracted to some 6'0"+ fit male, especially White women in Western nations.

With #7, men need balance. Most men will need to do some level of approaching and initiation. After that, it's best not constantly pursue. In Doc Love's era, that would have been not making too many phone calls. Now, that's more of the double and triple texting thing with time spaced apart between text messages. A misuse of phone calls and text messages have caused many interactions to fail.

#8 is good.

 

[pipeman84]

Or you can buy it from a website for $99
"For $99 you can get the book mailed to you ..."

A scanned copy of the System can be found for free on the net. There's also a pdf file (has over 1k pages) with the archive of his Askmen column which is a good, practical addition to the book.

 

[FlirtLife]

Found this (partial?) archive of Doc Love articles:

http://www.menstuff.org/columns/doclov/archive.html

 

[RangerMIke]

I read some Doc Love in the 2000s. The long lasting thing for me was challenge. I don't think Doc Love made me a red pill person but it moved me further towards that point. Additionally, Doc Love content did not solve my dating issues at that time. Perhaps I did not implement it well in my life. If Doc Love content had worked for me, I don't think I would have discovered Roosh or Rollo later in life.

In looking at these 8 items, there are some good things here.

#2 is good advice but difficult. I think a lot of men struggle with getting out in the real world. That wasn't as big as problem when Doc Love was originally writing The System in the 1990s, but it has become a bigger problem since the 2000s. Online dating websites and later swipe apps grew because of how difficult it is to arrange dates in the real world. It involves a lot of real world socializing and often feels like a full time 2nd job. I think arranging dates in the real world has been more difficult in the past 10-15 years than it was in the 1990s. It wasn't easy in the 1990s from what I've observed either.

#1 and #6 are related ideas. After doing #1, #6 becomes applicable to specific women. The ideal man is 6'0"+ and fit. Most women are going be attracted to some 6'0"+ fit male, especially White women in Western nations.

With #7, men need balance. Most men will need to do some level of approaching and initiation. After that, it's best not constantly pursue. In Doc Love's era, that would have been not making too many phone calls. Now, that's more of the double and triple texting thing with time spaced apart between text messages. A misuse of phone calls and text messages have caused many interactions to fail.

#8 is good.

Let me say this. I believe Doc Love resonates with me (and I'm guessing older men like me in our 50s), is because he does speak to our generation. His stuff is dated but the principles remain valid if your intent is to find women that fit you and complement your life.

I have dated women thru 4 decades... 80s, 90s, 10s, and 20s (I was married in the 00s so skipped that decade) women don't change, men do. Women will behave exactly how men expect them to behave... men today are by-and-large whinny little b1tches who think the world is out to get them. Doc Love worked like magic in the 80s and 90s (trust me I know). Then came the internet and totally fvcked everything up.

Dating today is VERY hard. I am not saying that it is easy. It is hard because for a woman to really fall for you, you MUST be someone she has to put effort into. But there are so many weak @ss men, willing to put up with anything just to have a shot. They generally treat men with disrespect because men generally let them get away with it. If a man expects respect... the woman can just get on tinder and be getting banged out 20 minutes after a disagreement.

I have lost so many women to weak @ss b1tches of men because they are willing to tie themselves in knots to make her happy... that NEVER lasts, or if it does than the dude is fvcking miserable. Now-a-days, if you are not willing to become a pathetic worm of a man, chasing after her, treating her like a queen, you will get ignored... oh sure... she'll come around eventually, but women don't know how to behave anymore. They are lost and miserable. We men did this to them.

What is happening today is there are fewer and fewer real men, because the men that women want are already taken, have transformed themselves into pathetic worms just to have a shot at sex, or they have given up on dating altogether. The ones that have given up are just depressed, bitter and angry.

Really all you can do is keep trying, it is harder now-a-days to get dates and develop things, it's a numbers game, you will go out on a lot of dates that go nowhere.... but you have to keep trying without compromising who you are or what you want... I know this is discouraging for a lot of men... I get it... but the only other option is to just give up. You are almost FORCED into OLD, I still won't do that sh1t so I have no idea how to make that work. But what that means for me is that I have to put in a lot of effort getting out and doing things.... striking up conversations with strangers and see what happens.

 

[Juanto]

Tom Torero for me, but sadly he passed away last year

 

[BadBoy89]

What is happening today is there are fewer and fewer real men, because the men that women want are already taken

What kind of men do women want?

 

[SW15]

What kind of men do women want?

6'0"+, quite fit, good facial aesthetics, and possibly quite rich. If not quite rich, another type that does well with a certain segment of women is the heavily tattooed guy who looks like he belongs in a prison.

I believe Doc Love resonates with me (and I'm guessing older men like me in our 50s), is because he does speak to our generation.

I am in my late 30s. I remember reading him in my late teens/early 20s and thinking he was more geared to 30+ men in the 2000s. I can identify with that point you make.

 

[RangerMIke]

What kind of men do women want?

First... every woman is different. To complicate things... what she wants changes like the wind and all depends on what is going on in her life at the moment. I have one female friend who was in a long term relationship with a fun dude with no ambition, she got tired of that (since she was turning 30) the next dude she was with was the polar opposite, driven and motivated... but according to her he was bad at sex... now she is onto a buff fitness dude who is an apparent sex god... THIS IS NORMAL chick behavior... this is what they do. She is eventually going to get tired of 'sex god', and the cycle starts over.

First a man has to meet her minimum requirements for physical attractiveness, social proof, and resources. The level of each she is looking for changes with the woman. You have to pass her screening criteria to have a shot. Some women like 'dad bods', some love bald dudes some hate bald dudes, a chick that grew up in a wealthy family is going to need a wealthy dude, women who grew up poor have lower standards of money. Social proof... again that changes from chick to chick, a conservative church chick will love her some ministers... chicks that are into athlete will chase the school QB a chick into yoga is going to be very attracted to a male yoga teacher..... They are looking for leadership traits in areas that are interesting to them.

After that, what they say they want is different from what they REALLY want which is a certain level of fearlessness (without recklessness) and confidence, the ability to maintain emotional self control, and they want a man that they have to work for... at least a little... they are always concerned about the bird that willingly flies into a cage.

But women today a mostly lazy, so they gravitate towards men that make things easy for them. Sometimes it takes time, but this seldom works out... then they are onto the next dude.

 

[pipeman84]

I have one female friend who was in a long term relationship with a fun dude with no ambition, she got tired of that (since she was turning 30) the next dude she was with was the polar opposite, driven and motivated... but according to her he was bad at sex... now she is onto a buff fitness dude who is an apparent sex god... THIS IS NORMAL chick behavior... this is what they do.

This is normal behavior for women who lack loyalty and are ditzy (at least as far as relationships are concerned). There are girls who know since they're 16 that they want to find one good guy and be loyal to him and start a family and then there are 40yrs old women who still 'explore what's out there, reinvent themselves etc' in other words, don't know what the heck they want.

 

[Knight of Roses]

I have used Alpha Male strategies and MJgetright as well as Corey Wayne. I think Corey is a little rude personally. If I’m paying that type money, you better answer my questions rather than go off on tangents.

I think MJgetright is good for the price.

 

[HaleyBaron]

I always tell guys, don't get a dating coach. Get a business coach. Someone who can help you organize your life and get a goal. Women will come cause you'll actually be making yourself a spot in life. I have so many women around me that it's actually tiring. Only just because I have a good career and they smell my success and motivation. I had tidbits of this I was not aware of back in college, which explained why girls got along with me and me with them. I was academically focused but I am blessed with my parents' looks.

 

[SW15]

I always tell guys, don't get a dating coach. Get a business coach. Someone who can help you organize your life and get a goal.

Getting a good value on one-on-one dating coaching can be extremely difficult to do. It's also expensive. There are less expensive tactics such as reading "Rational Male" and "Rational Male: Players Handbook" from Rollo Tomassi, "The Unplugged Alpha" from Rich Cooper, and "Mystery Method". The cost of those 4 books + time spent on YouTube channels will be less expensive than doing one-on-one dating coaching and likely produce similar results.

Going to the gym time is a part of everything.

I think this flow chart from Wheat Waffles is helpful.

 

[HaleyBaron]

Getting a good value on one-on-one dating coaching can be extremely difficult to do. It's also expensive. There are less expensive tactics such as reading "Rational Male" and "Rational Male: Players Handbook" from Rollo Tomassi, "The Unplugged Alpha" from Rich Cooper, and "Mystery Method". The cost of those 4 books + time spent on YouTube channels will be less expensive than doing one-on-one dating coaching and likely produce similar results.

Going to the gym time is a part of everything.

I think this flow chart from Wheat Waffles is helpful.

Never seen that video before but I'll check it out. And yes, I've read those books, though what we really need is a library of Must Read books for men in general.

 

[SW15]

Never seen that video before but I'll check it out. And yes, I've read those books, though what we really need is a library of Must Read books for men in general.

We have that. It's at the top of the Don Juan Discussion thread.

-----> Recommended books for all men - New Members Start Here <-----

Everyone always asks time and time again for recommended books for men to read. So here you go. I broke it down into categories. When I read them, I usually got the book and audio versions. Dating & Relations The Book of Pook (free) The Rational Male The Book of Numbers: Analyzing the ROI on...

www.sosuave.net

 

[Solomon]

Getting a good value on one-on-one dating coaching can be extremely difficult to do. It's also expensive. There are less expensive tactics such as reading "Rational Male" and "Rational Male: Players Handbook" from Rollo Tomassi, "The Unplugged Alpha" from Rich Cooper, and "Mystery Method". The cost of those 4 books + time spent on YouTube channels will be less expensive than doing one-on-one dating coaching and likely produce similar results.

Going to the gym time is a part of everything.

I think this flow chart from Wheat Waffles is helpful.

Lol at reading a "players handbook" from a guy whose been married for 30+ years
I don't hate Rollo but come on unless he's speaking from experience (which than would expose his marriage isn't as peachy as he claims) I can't take a "Players Handbook" serious from someone who hasn't been active in the field for the last 30 years

 

[characternote]

Even the most effective dating coach is ineffective if you don't do the work. With or without a coach, the willingness to learn and try stuff outside your comfort zone is the single most important part of developing game. The coach is just a support, you have to do the lifting either way.

I never went for a coach or spent any money on this myself. I found free online resources and didn't need to pay someone to kick me in the ass to go try it out, some guys prefer that though, but it doesn't change the fact that your own effort is crucial.

All the dating coach can do is really push you into sets. It's not like there's amazing lines and methods etc that one can learn to suddenly massively improve the odds of not being rejected. I'd say most in the game have 'put in the work (in terms of reading a tonne from loads of books and then using the pushpulls and negs and DHV stories etc). But the effect of any 'game' is neglible. It's basically a matter of ''if you are her type, the level of game you need is to just not be super weird and be sure to escalate'', and ''if you are NOT her type, no 'game' in the world is going to do a thing''.

 

[SW15]

Lol at reading a "players handbook" from a guy whose been married for 30+ years
I don't hate Rollo but come on unless he's speaking from experience (which than would expose his marriage isn't as peachy as he claims) I can't take a "Players Handbook" serious from someone who hasn't been active in the field for the last 30 years

That is the biggest critique of Rollo Tomassi. He's been married to the same woman since 1996, which is now 25+ years. He probably started dating her around 1993-1994, which means ~30 years in the same LTR.