Is a 41 y.o. man who gets an 18 y.o. woman a "master manipulator"?

[MatureDJ]

http://shine.yahoo.com/parenting/teacher-leaves-wife-kids-high-school-student-225300504.html

It seems that he moved in with her right around her 18th birthday, so her mother wants to police to investigate whether he had a relationship with her prior to age 18.

If this all sounds suspicious to you, imagine how Tammie Powers, Jordan's mom, feels. She's launched an official police investigation to find out if Hooker's relationship with her daughter began before Jordan was of legal age. Tammie is convinced it did, citing a photo of her daughter on Hooker's lap and text messages, emails and phone records exchanged between the couple that predate her daughter's 18th birthday.

So it is statutory rape (or some other crime) to allow a woman under the age of consent (18 in California) to sit on one's lap, or to text, E-mail or phone? It seems that the only way to get him convicted is if the woman testifies that sex did take place. This brings up an interesting situation because if the relationship falters, she could do major damage to him by claiming (even falsely) that he did have sex with her before the age of consent.

My take is that this man has found a nice fresh womb to deposit his seed , and that the mother should be happy that the daughter wants to have children at an early age, before she would become barren.

 

[Greasy Pig]

I think the issue is that he was "grooming" her for sex before she turned 18.
That's an offence in Australia. You don't have to prove intercourse, you just have to prove the man was preparing her for sex.
Is it an offence in California?

 

[zekko]

I'm surprised a state as liberal as California has an age of consent of 18. I wouldn't advise having sex with any girl that young, but how can the age of consent be 18 in Califoria and 15 in Connecticut? It seems like there is no moral imperative here.

I've always thought the whole age of consent thing is largely just a result of what culture you live in. It's hard for me to get outraged over it when the states can't even agree when it should be illegal.

 

[Scaramouche]

Dear MDJ,
You can certainly find them,between Teaching and cruising the Net,when do you get time to do any serious Shvagging?......And then this amazing revelation on Australian Laws by our own little piggy....Seems crazy...we are the Sweden of the Pacific!

 

[AlNess]

So f'n what that she's now 18? The guy's still 41. Of course he was priming her for "legal" sex when she was still a minor. As far as I'm concerned, the guy's still a pedo.

 

[scrouds]

I've been going back and forth on this issue, and I think I know what the problem is. We don't know anything about his marriage. I don't care that she's 18 and he's a teacher at her school. It is what it is. But I want to know about the marriage. Was it happy? Was it miserable? Did he destroy that family by leaving or was it broken just waiting for things to fall apart. Was the wife a nagging selfish slob or was he just a selfish "i want it all" sob? We don't know.

 

[DJDamage]

I've been going back and forth on this issue, and I think I know what the problem is. We don't know anything about his marriage. I don't care that she's 18 and he's a teacher at her school. It is what it is. But I want to know about the marriage. Was it happy? Was it miserable? Did he destroy that family by leaving or was it broken just waiting for things to fall apart. Was the wife a nagging selfish slob or was he just a selfish "i want it all" sob? We don't know.

After looking at the video of him on youtube, he sounds like your typical AFC type of guy, there was nothing special about him. My take is that the woman he married was also average at best and like most couples they both settled for one another and lived an average boring typical marriage with screaming unfulfilling kids with the wife wearing the pants in the relationship. Enter some 18 year old submissive above average in looks with possible daddy issues and you can bet that this teacher in his AFC'ish ways used his authority and position to bring himself closer to her.

Once he got to bone her, he felt as if he was the king of world and nothing else mattered. That's why he's divorcing his wife because he wants to start a new chapter thinking that he has hit the jackpot and all his AFC" ways (can't get younger, attractive and affectionate women) are well behind him.

I bet he has already oneitis for this young lady. My take on this is that soon she will start to sh1t test him and he will fail her tests, or the strain of his divorce and society's shame will cause her interest in him to plummet (not before she cries to the media that she was in fact manipulated and that this man should go to jail for fvcking her before her 18th birthday).

I give this a year or two, right after she gets pregnant and spawns a kid. I don't believe this guy has any ideas what kind of a sh1t storm might be headed his way.

 

[Down Low]

For a teacher to seduce his student is not gentlemanly, it's not professional conduct, and it's not ethical. He shouldn't be a teacher. Even if he lands a teaching job some years from now, he'll probably lose it when this scandal catches up with him. If he liked her, he should have waited for her to graduate, then made a run at her.

Did he hit the AFC jackpot? Yep. Is a second divorce in his future? Past performance IS a good indicator of the future.

Is it wrong for a 41-year-old to seduce a 17-year-old? No. If she has tits, she's fair game. Humans have permanently showy breasts to indicate sexual receptivity. It would be different if she ate a diet of fish and rice and veggies and didn't start menstruating until age 19. But that's obviously not the case. The argument that it's child molestation falls flat.

Women are flighty, ruled by emotions, and are waiting for a man to tell them what to do. Of course he seduced her. She gave informed consent. He didn't "program" her any more than a rich boss "programs" a silly young woman employee into getting into his car and going off with him. She wouldn't have done it if her character and personality was contrary. It wasn't. He noticed that and acted upon it. For all we know, she was one of those who sit in a miniskirt in the front of class and make little pouty sucks on their index fingers. After all, he's a foolish, weak man who jumped off a cliff. He's not the Greatest American Hero who ignored the sl0tty student in favor of a shrewish lawyer.

 

[backbreaker]

i have a serious problem with this guy saying that he is a predator.

you know, only in the last what... i'd say mid 1800's was dating or even marrying "girls" a "taboo". men for very long periods of time, have fvcked girls. some barely the age of puberty. When Napoleon's (hot) 13 year old sister was about the only thing in the late 1790's from having napolean's head meet the national razor.. Napoleon's boss/higher up was laying it to her and that was the main reason why he didn't have napolean killed after the failed military attack at Toulon. King Henry the 5th's mother had him when she was 16 years old. King Henry the 7th's mother was just 14 when she had him. not had sex, when she gave birth to the future king.

****.. the virgin mary was 14 when she had jesus in the bible. and while she was in fact.. a virgin , do not forget she was married at the time to an actual man (John) when she was annotated ith the son of god per the bible,e

so yes, lI have a big problem when people say **** like, oh a guy looking at a very young girl is "sick". It's not.. politically correct in today's society, partly becuase we are more able to travel and meet other women than we were in times past, there is no need to date a woman that young anymore, but that does not mean that person has a mental issue. I mean i hate to be this blunt but men have been fvcking girls since the beginning of time. in the past, you had to marry that young because one out of 2 or 3 babies you woudl have would not make it to childhood.

as down low said, that's nature's sign to basically say "come and get it". she can now reproduce.

I hope you're not serious. Pedophilia is a mental illness involving attraction to sexually premature children.

the problem is she is not a CHILD. neither is a 14 or 13 year old technically. My 9 year old brother is a child. my 14 year old step sister is not a child. I mean, not in that sense. I mean, I'm not saying i wouldn't be livid if something happened to her, but i'm saying... how can i put this..

there is a line that we don't cross because it's just fvckign wrong and immoral. that's the 13 year old line. that's the pedo line.

then there is a line we don't cross beucase it's not socially acceptable to do so. that's the one of legal age content.

this girl is 18 years old. spare me the pedo references. seriously. you ca'nt in one sentence believe in the bible where 14 year old virgins are having babies then call this guy a pedo.

 

[Warrior74]

But but but...but backbreaker, if men could mary young girls in their teen years, who would date the aging 35 year old women? I mean if you compare the brokest guy on this forum to the average 16 year old male, a 16 year old girl comes out miles ahead with an older man. This is how it was for centuries.

That being said, I think this guy dun goofed. I don't think he's ready for the world as it is now which is not going to accept this behavior.

Oh this reminds me of an older guy I met in a bar last night. He owns a successful car dealership. Said he wasn't going to a certain bar because his 25 year old daughter hangs out there. About 20 minutes later he gets a call and gets ready to leave. It's his 20 year old girlfriend.. He shows me a picture and she's pretty hot. This guy had to be in his late 50s, overweight, drunk. He says he's her sugar daddy. THis is how the world works.

 

[Jaylan]

She was 14 when he started texting her and grooming her for this life...if no one sees anything wrong with that....then I dunno what to say really.

Ill just be glad that most adults arent ok with folks who like using their experience and power to manipulate high school kids.

Edit: Also, just cus something was done in the past does not mean its right today...that goes for a lot of things.

 

[Warrior74]

She was 14 when he started texting her and grooming her for this life...if no one sees anything wrong with that....then I dunno what to say really.

Ill just be glad that most adults arent ok with folks who like using their experience and power to manipulate high school kids.

Edit: Also, just cus something was done in the past does not mean its right today...that goes for a lot of things.

That's true. But understand how and why we got to where we are is important. The world has changed but people's natural instincts have not. Which is why we have laws in place to control them. Personally grooming a 14 year old is disgusting to me personally, meeting an 18 year old girl out and dating her as equal adults is not.

 

[AlNess]

I hope you're not serious. Pedophilia is a mental illness involving attraction to sexually premature children.

As far as manipulation is concerned - I'm not sure what the law says. I know that having "intent" can get you thrown into the slammer without any sex taking place. (From watching To Catch A Predator, ha.)

However if they just had a non-sexual relationship, and he was priming her for the big 1-8, that doesn't seem illegal to me. It's not like she wasn't thinking about sex without him around.

You don't have a daughter, do you?

I take this $hit hella seriously. I have a daughter, and I can feel my blood pressure coming to a boil just imagining some old guy "texting" my child when she's 14 (until I read Jaylan's post, I had no idea that's how young the girl in this story was when the communication began). I guarantee hunting such a guy down and force-feeding him his own ass. I wouldn't give a flying phukk that there had been no sexual contact until she was 18 or that she was already "sexually mature."
A 41 year old man who sends romantic texts to a minor has sex on the brain, even if no sex has occured yet. That said, he's already a pedo in my eyes. I don't give a phukk about legal loopholes that can be exploited.

 

[AlNess]

i have a serious problem with this guy saying that he is a predator.

you know, only in the last what... i'd say mid 1800's was dating or even marrying "girls" a "taboo". men for very long periods of time, have fvcked girls. some barely the age of puberty. When Napoleon's (hot) 13 year old sister was about the only thing in the late 1790's from having napolean's head meet the national razor.. Napoleon's boss/higher up was laying it to her and that was the main reason why he didn't have napolean killed after the failed military attack at Toulon. King Henry the 5th's mother had him when she was 16 years old. King Henry the 7th's mother was just 14 when she had him. not had sex, when she gave birth to the future king.

****.. the virgin mary was 14 when she had jesus in the bible. and while she was in fact.. a virgin , do not forget she was married at the time to an actual man (John) when she was annotated ith the son of god per the bible,e

so yes, lI have a big problem when people say **** like, oh a guy looking at a very young girl is "sick". It's not.. politically correct in today's society, partly becuase we are more able to travel and meet other women than we were in times past, there is no need to date a woman that young anymore, but that does not mean that person has a mental issue. I mean i hate to be this blunt but men have been fvcking girls since the beginning of time. in the past, you had to marry that young because one out of 2 or 3 babies you woudl have would not make it to childhood.

as down low said, that's nature's sign to basically say "come and get it". she can now reproduce.

the problem is she is not a CHILD. neither is a 14 or 13 year old technically. My 9 year old brother is a child. my 14 year old step sister is not a child. I mean, not in that sense. I mean, I'm not saying i wouldn't be livid if something happened to her, but i'm saying... how can i put this..

there is a line that we don't cross because it's just fvckign wrong and immoral. that's the 13 year old line. that's the pedo line.

then there is a line we don't cross beucase it's not socially acceptable to do so. that's the one of legal age content.

this girl is 18 years old. spare me the pedo references. seriously. you ca'nt in one sentence believe in the bible where 14 year old virgins are having babies then call this guy a pedo.

Cultural relativity is the exact line of reasoning that pedophiles use to justify their actions.

 

[f283000]

you know, only in the last what... i'd say mid 1800's was dating or even marrying "girls" a "taboo". men for very long periods of time, have fvcked girls. some barely the age of puberty.

Actually this should be mid 1800s IN THE USA. Don't confuse the USA with the rest of the world where the age of consent is much lower than 18 still. Even in the UK it is 16. Hell even in other states in the USA it is lower than 18.

Personally if a girl is allowed to do something as dangerous as driving a car which requires training, testing, approval, then she should be able to do something as simple as spreading her legs for a man for pleasure at that same age.

I think the bar should be set at 16. You can drive a car and kill people with it due to your bad driving but you are not old enough to have sex with an adult?? That just doesn't make sense as much as being old enough to go to war and kill people but not being able to drink till your 21 doesn't make sense.

Stupid laws.

 

[backbreaker]

Cultural relativity is the exact line of reasoning that pedophiles use to justify their actions.

people use the bible to justify hate crimes, it doesn't mean you toss the baby out with the bathwater. your line of reasoning, if you want to even call it that is pie in the sky ish.

I am not even saying that I agree with the guy. I think he has issues. But I do not htink he is a pedo or a predator. nhe's more likely just an AFC who is sick of being treated like crap by women his age or his nagging /gaining weight now ex wife and sees / loves the innocence of this girl.

 

[zekko]

I can't believe all the attention this story is getting here.

I mean i hate to be this blunt but men have been fvcking girls since the beginning of time. in the past, you had to marry that young because one out of 2 or 3 babies you woudl have would not make it to childhood.

This is why I'm having such a hard time getting worked up over this. People thinking sex with a girl under 18 is largely just a matter of the culture we're living in. In some cultures a girl at 18 would be an old maid. My niece got married when she was 15, and she's still married to the same guy 30 years later.

If it turns out the guy had sex with the girl at 17, he may go to jail. But I can't work up moral outrage when the age of consent just across the state line in Nevada is 16.

Grooming is definitely a behavior exhibited by sexual predators. But on the other hand, if he waited until the girl turned 18 to make his move, wasn't he actually being respectful of the law?

I'm with Backbreaker on this one. The guy may be a creep and have poor judgement, but I'm not going to call him a pedo.

 

[AlNess]

people use the bible to justify hate crimes, it doesn't mean you toss the baby out with the bathwater. your line of reasoning, if you want to even call it that is pie in the sky ish.

I am not even saying that I agree with the guy. I think he has issues. But I do not htink he is a pedo or a predator. nhe's more likely just an AFC who is sick of being treated like crap by women his age or his nagging /gaining weight now ex wife and sees / loves the innocence of this girl.

Simply put, there is still just NO reason for a 37-year-old man to be texting a 14-year-old girl. None whatsoever. That's what was going on between the two people in this story 3-4 years ago.

 

[AlNess]

Grooming is definitely a behavior exhibited by sexual predators. But on the other hand, if he waited until the girl turned 18 to make his move, wasn't he actually being respectful of the law?

I'm with Backbreaker on this one. The guy may be a creep and have poor judgement, but I'm not going to call him a pedo.

So do you think it was appropriate 3-4 years ago when that guy, then age 37, was texting his new squeeze when she was 14? Granted, there was no sex then...but chances are he wasn't just checking up on her to make sure she was doing her homework. He was forging a personal relationship at some level.

 

[backbreaker]

there are no less than 4 threads about this damn guy on this forum right now

meanwhile the dude trying to date his fvcking cousin hasn't hit 2 pages in 3 days.

There are some events that happen that will show you a person's true nature. you can only remember so many lines of PUA material, so many C and F routines before your AFC nature is exposed. Too many "captians" here.