Internet Dating

[Mirage]

Hello guys,

I have contacted literally hundreds of women through internet dating sites. I couldn’t find any good resources regarding this in particular on the net so I figured it would be a good idea to create a thread to share thoughts, ideas and some of my personal experiences. I’d say I have a 5-10% success rate at the moment. It’s not very high and I feel frustration about this at times. To be frank, I think the girls I’ve managed to pull was because of my looks, not because of my actual “game”.

I’m mostly interested in success stories and people successful dating online. I don’t do bars much, I feel out of my element there. Once I meet in person, I can hold my ground, it’s getting the woman to meet with me which I find very difficult. I’ve been racking my brain for so long about this, trying so many things (dozens and dozens and dozens).

Basically, my objective is to keep correspondence to a very strict minimum (waste of time that) and manage to set up a date asap. I didn’t succeed a **** test yesterday, will tell you more about that later on.
So, let us chat, then.

What’s your input, what’s the most fundamental in your opinion when it comes to efficient internet dating?

M.

 

[Tictac]

If you're 30-35 or under, spend much more of your time going out to where women are than you do on OLD sites.

 

[Albatross953]

Have the best pics and profile possible. And just view women don't write them. The interested ones will come to you.

 

[jurry]

It can be very frustrating at times and if you're using it as your onpy source of meeting girls, be prepared for out of the blue flakiness, people disappearing for no reason at all, etc. Don't take it personal though if you haven't even met them yet. Send out a message containing something specific to their profile, exchange message or two tops and ask her out. If anything besides yes comes back move on. DO NOT engage in lengthy conversations or respond to the "maybe we should get to know each other more" replies, conserve your energy. Als try to meet girls in other ways such as cold approach or joining a class or whatever because online dating is highly variable and unpredictable.

That being said, its hard to compete with setting up 3 or 4 dates from an app on your phone for a weekend. I've had good results you just need to keep a level head even though you get one date doesnt mean much she probably dating a couple other guys so you should be dating other people too.

 

[dasein]

Disagree with "interested ones will come to you." Even if you are in the top top % of profiles, you won't get the best women coming to you. Those are getting up to 200 mails a day, they don't have to "come" anywhere. You are on the right track with the minimal contact befre meeting face to face. Make sure your pictures are the absolute best they can be, cull all unflattering ones. Get women to help you pick them out as in "I'd like to f the guy in this picture more than the guy in that picture" never "which picture of me is better?"

Every line of your profile, which should be on the brief side, should communicate, 1. "I am missing out if I don't go out with this guy," 2. "It would be easy and no hassle to go out with this guy." You do this with humor, not taking things too seriously, lines like "I like new hole in the wall places, maybe there's one near you I haven't been to." No flowery, contrived language or sentiments,not a bunch of checklists and stuff about what you like and don't like, just plain engilish and selling a date with you subtly.

Change your headline every couple days to something funny, "My uncle got my match password, please ignore any invitations to bingo at the VFW or to go ride scooters up and down the aisles at walmart." Put lines like "not into penpals, be ready to go out and have some fun and we will." Ask them to hit the "not interested" button in the first email if they aren't interested. This sends lots of subtle cues that work in your favor. Ask for phone number in your second email after their first response, "here's mine if you'd rather call me xxx-xxxx" If you act weird or uncomfortable about asking for their # fast, you won't get it. It's the most natural thing in the world, who wants to sit around talking and IMing forever? Once you have the # call within 24 hours, chat lightly with humor for 5 minutes then ask out, have a date plan near their general area that is easy for them to get to and preferably a chichi type place to meet. Always ask out for WEEKNIGHTS for at least the first 5 dates. This also sends lots of good subtle cues and sets up a "has to earn his weekend time" dynamic and wondering. Sit at the bar have one drink, then get active walking around doing something fun. Anything other than movie and dinner across a table (I also don't do coffee dates, hate that sh-t. If I'm going to get dressed to meet someone, we are going to do something at least halfway fun and active, not sit in a generic starbucks). Give them lots of chances to start touching you No heavy talk at all ever, light and fun, no 20 questions, neg them if they start that up. Rest is already expressed here on sosuave in stickies better than I can.

There are surely plenty of sticky posts on this thread on OLD. Check those out. Remember it's just a tool, not the whole belt. Attitudes that you either do OLD or meet women in other ways are wrong. Use every tool. Good luck.

 

[logicallefty]

In the past 10 years I have probably talked to 300 girls online, went out with 70-100. As most anyone will tell you, it's truely a numbers game.

You can read all about my ultimate failure story dating online right here:
http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=214228

As for successes, I have had those too, but the one thing I stress is don't expect online relationships to be a LTR.

I have personally found the best use for online dating to get a piece of a## or even just some company between LTRs. I like to think of it as temporary fun, no different than I think of going out and drinking or whatever. Enjoy it tonight but don't expect it to last past that. If it does though, great.

As for going from online to offline quickly, what works for me is to exchange a few messages online first and make sure to lay on the C&F hard. Say something in those first 1-2 messages that will leave her thinking you are the most fun mo-fo on the planet to be around, and leave her dieing to hear more. Then ask her for her number and immediately ask her out via text or call. I usually text but to each their own. Good luck.

 

[Mirage]

I’d like to start by thanking you for your courteous replies, I appreciate the feedback, really.

@Tictac:
Hi Tictac,
I’m 33. I’d like to spend more time where women are. I have no friends who go in clubs and they’re not exactly my cup of tea. I’m doing crossfit 5 times a week at the moment, plenty of hot women there. I was thinking maybe yoga.

@Albatross953:
Hi Albatross953,
I work with the public, I prefer to remain sort of anonymous except with women I am interested in. Otherwise I’d follow your advice.

It can be very frustrating at times and if you're using it as your onpy source of meeting girls, be prepared for out of the blue flakiness, people disappearing for no reason at all, etc.

Hi Jurry,
I would say I’ve contacted more than 200 women through dating websites. Out of those 200, I’ve been stood up twice, it’s pretty reasonable. I mean getting somewhere and the girl never shows up.

Yes, it is my only source of meeting women and yes I’ve experienced a *lot* of flakiness, which is why setting up a date in person asap is, in my opinion, the most efficient to deal with this.

DO NOT engage in lengthy conversations or respond to the "maybe we should get to know each other more" replies, conserve your energy.

Right on, man. I’ve done that before, going through the lengthy process of exchanging messages back and forth. Definitely not worth it. I suspect some women hang out there and yet have no intentions whatsoever to actually meet anyone. Gotta keep an eye out for those ones.

Your reply have convinced me further that two messages should be the most I ever write to a girl.

I actually archive my messages and sometimes copy/paste relevant parts. I also start with a comment about their personal description.

Thanks for the input.

Disagree with "interested ones will come to you." Even if you are in the top top % of profiles, you won't get the best women coming to you. Those are getting up to 200 mails a day, they don't have to "come" anywhere. You are on the right track with the minimal contact befre meeting face to face. Make sure your pictures are the absolute best they can be, cull all unflattering ones. Get women to help you pick them out as in "I'd like to f the guy in this picture more than the guy in that picture" never "which picture of me is better?"

I’m pretty good at drawing so I put on my cartoon drawing as an extra picture in my profile. Do you guys think it’s a good idea? I’m not sure (I’m not sure about a lot of things about online dating).

Every line of your profile, which should be on the brief side, should communicate, 1. "I am missing out if I don't go out with this guy," 2. "It would be easy and no hassle to go out with this guy." You do this with humor, not taking things too seriously, lines like "I like new hole in the wall places, maybe there's one near you I haven't been to." No flowery, contrived language or sentiments,not a bunch of checklists and stuff about what you like and don't like, just plain engilish and selling a date with you subtly.

Yes, I agree, none of that. I wrote in my description that I like to live dangerously like running downstairs with my shoes untied. I think it’s humorous. Then I just basically say I have a job, friends, that I think I’m good looking and fun to be around with. I’ve had good success with this description. It’s getting past that first step which I have trouble with. Like the second message.

This sends lots of subtle cues that work in your favor. Ask for phone number in your second email after their first response, "here's mine if you'd rather call me xxx-xxxx" If you act weird or uncomfortable about asking for their # fast, you won't get it. It's the most natural thing in the world, who wants to sit around talking and IMing forever?

Not me, that’s for sure. I was actually thinking of sending a first message and if they reply answer back with something along the line of: “I’m not into virtual relationship so here’s my phone number xxx-xxxx, call me up if you’d like to go for a drink. Otherwise, best of luck to you.” You know, just to get a move on. Again, I’m not sure, too abrupt?

Once you have the # call within 24 hours, chat lightly with humor for 5 minutes then ask out, have a date plan near their general area that is easy for them to get to and preferably a chichi type place to meet.

I always feel like talking for the longest time on the phone, like it’s representative of a successful conversation, good idea with the 5 minutes thing. I like it.

(I also don't do coffee dates, hate that sh-t. If I'm going to get dressed to meet someone, we are going to do something at least halfway fun and active, not sit in a generic starbucks)

I don’t do coffee dates either. Never done one. Spells disaster for me.

Give them lots of chances to start touching you No heavy talk at all ever, light and fun, no 20 questions, neg them if they start that up.

That, I think, might my shortcoming. I don’t own a tv as I spend most of my time working out, reading and just generally learning stuff. I like to discuss “deep” things like philosophy, politics and so on. I find them mentally stimulating. Is a faux pas in your opinion?

A girl wrote to me recently saying that she didn’t like the values of our modern society because if focused too much on technology and not on real problems. I replied asking what she thought needed the most immediate attention in that regard. Never got a reply.

I figured if she mentioned it she would be interested in talking about it but nothing. Then again, there might other reasons why she didn’t reply.
I also have the tendency to write very long messages. I suspect this might also be a turnoff. What do you guys think? I now try to keep my messages as long or shorter than the ones I receive.

I have personally found the best use for online dating to get a piece of a## or even just some company between LTRs. I like to think of it as temporary fun, no different than I think of going out and drinking or whatever. Enjoy it tonight but don't expect it to last past that. If it does though, great.

Hello logicallefty,
I don’t want to settle down with a single woman. I’ve come to terms with that.

Actually, I would be more interested in learning in your successes than in your failures, to learn what you did right if you feel like sharing. I could learn from you. I find it easier to emulate success than avoiding mistakes.

 

[bukowski_merit]

Meanwhile, I hooked up with a girl from online last night without ever going on a date with her. The date was at my house and occured about 8 hours after i first talked to her. Banged her about a hour after she got there.

And I have another meetup this saturday at a hotel between me and this woman who lives far from me so we decided to split a hotel to meet up at (took some convincing but most women cave in); that will be sex as soon as we down a few drinks.



And i honestly don't obey sh!t in this thread.


---
The only rule is: It's just a numbers game. Decide what you want; and mold your game to get that. And most of all - look for women who are receptive to your game! Molding your game to fit what you think she wants - is wasting time.

I might send out 40 sexualized flirty messages to women; get 1-2 negative responses, 30 no responses, and 8-9 positive responses. And of those 8-9 - i can normally talk my way into 1-2 of their pants.

The key is to look for women that fit what you're trying to do. And you really shouldn't be trying to do anything other than fvck them. LTRs are nearly impossible with these women.

---

Also, if you're average or above average looking - that's about the best you're going to get. I'm above average looking and I can pretty easily get above average looking women; but if I go into the "hot" zone or "super hot" zone - I have about a .05% success rate. I still try with them, and occasionally land one who responds to my sexualized game. But i don't expect it.

The best thing I did for my game is stop looking at women like HB6 or HB9. For sexual purposes - I just have 3 categories.

No
Maybe
Yes

A No will never have a chance.
A maybe will have a chance if she is receptive to me and makes it easy for me. Bonus points if we seem like we'd click sexually.
A yes isn't much different from a maybe to me; except i'll try slightly harder if they're giving resistance.

There's more things to this - but that's the basics.

 

[jurry]

LTR is nearly impossible with the girl who came to a complete strangers house for sex on the first date? Shocker.

 

[bukowski_merit]

LTR is nearly impossible with the girl who came to a complete strangers house for sex on the first date? Shocker.

LTR is nearly impossible period with the modern woman.

But for online dating even more so. The exception is if she's NEW to online dating; but even that isn't a given that she isn't already corrupted.

As far as the "stranger" thing...

What I've discovered works for me - is the more I make her feel like she knows me already - the easier everything is.

You don't want to be an stranger internet guy to her. You don't want to view yourself or her as such. You want to be "fill in your name."

And it's surprisingly easy to get to that point where she views you a little higher up her totem pole than the average internet guy.


There's also no difference between the girl who gets taken out on dates when doing online dating; and the ones that will just go over a guys house for "dinner" or "drinks" or to "watch a movie" for a first date... They are the same women and their decisions are largely based on interest level. They just treat guys differently based on where they view them on the lover/provider hierarchy (and what the guy will let them get away with).

 

[Mirage]

What I've discovered works for me - is the more I make her feel like she knows me already - the easier everything is.

Nice, didn’t think about that. Well done. I’ll keep that in mind.

Meanwhile, I hooked up with a girl from online last night without ever going on a date with her. The date was at my house and occured about 8 hours after i first talked to her. Banged her about a hour after she got there.

Well done. Would be nice to read how you proceeded to land that one.

(took some convincing but most women cave in)

I’d be interested to read how you proceeded to coax her to agree to this. I would imagine this was the result of a previous flirtatious message, but still.

I might send out 40 sexualized flirty messages to women; get 1-2 negative responses, 30 no responses, and 8-9 positive responses. And of those 8-9 - i can normally talk my way into 1-2 of their pants.

Perhaps there would be ways to improve those odds. 8-9 positive is pretty good but 1 or 2 for sex seems it could be better (no offence). I like your direct approach. I’ve actually tried being super open about my intentions. I pretty much wrote: “Would you like to have sex” to three or four different women. The only reply I got was a furious woman insulting me. She then blocked me and deleted her profile. I don’t understand what she was so mad about. If I had manipulated to sleep with her, ok, I’d get that, but that was as honest and upfront as it gets and she blew a gasket.

I wouldn’t be insulted if a woman asked me if I wanted to sleep with her. Big deal. I don’t know, maybe she had been raped or something. Who knows.
Oh I only want to have sex with them. I don’t think that’s morally wrong or unethical. I resent the part about being devious about it but if there’s no other way, gonna have to bite the bullet on that one.

Anyways, I’d rather take real situations as opposed to talking about things in a general fashion.

Take this girl for instance:


See, for me, this picture sends the message that the girl is looking for sex.

What kind of first message would you send to convey this idea while, I guess, being indirect enough that she won’t freak out like that other girl?
M.

 

[bukowski_merit]

Nice, didn’t think about that. Well done. I’ll keep that in mind.

You should really try a bunch of different things and figure out what works for YOU. I'm a wordy dude; write poetry, have extensively studied pursuassion, NLP, Copywriting... Mostly because I knew it'd make me better with seduction through the written word.

I think a lot of people get messed up when they seek advice and then mix all the advice together. When what works for me, might not work well for the next guy... This also applies to offline game.

I don't eve know if my game is transferable because it has to be completely conguent with who you are as a person. The "spam for date" guys are offering a much more "open source" type of method and is probably better for the beginner.

I’d be interested to read how you proceeded to coax her to agree to this. I would imagine this was the result of a previous flirtatious message, but still.

If it gets to the point where I'm pitching a meetup at one of our places - it's because I've already gotten plenty of IOI signals from her; AND i've screened out the possibility that she'd be bad in bed.

When i get 'token' resistance to the idea of hanging out at one of our houses. I feel free to engage her logically. She WANTS to come see me; she just needs to be able to justify it in her head as to not feel like a s!ut.

Overall: I'll tell her how much easier it is to get to know someone when you're in a private setting. Might even mention it's more romantic. Will say TRUST ME, a lot.

If she objects that i might be a killer so she'd rather meet me out: I'll tell her she must have the greatest people reading skills of all time to be able to know if a guy is a killer, and that im leaving a terrible paper trail for myself. They normally concede this issue, and I'll say "the real issue if you just want to make sure I look like my pictures. so theres a little mall down the road from where i live, we'll meet there and you can follow me back to my place as long as we're both who we say we are." Most of the time this is enough.

If she objects because she doesn't want to give the impression that she's coming over for sex or anything along these lines: I'll tell her I have to feel our vibe in person before even considering sex (truth) and that i've had plenty of girls over and didn't fvck them (truth) because the vibe wasn't there. "Still had fun though".

Those are the two main objections, and the 2 main ways i deal with it.

Perhaps there would be ways to improve those odds. 8-9 positive is pretty good but 1 or 2 for sex seems it could be better (no offence). I like your direct approach. I’ve actually tried being super open about my intentions. I pretty much wrote: “Would you like to have sex” to three or four different women.

I've never asked a girl if she'd like to have sex. It's only implied; only hinted; the sex is the bloodstream of the fliratcious banter though.

I also am not "super open" about my intentions. You don't need to be, most these women have "super open" legs when the guy attracts them enough. It's only a matter of that.

I wouldn’t be insulted if a woman asked me if I wanted to sleep with her.

She's not insulted; she's just not attracted enough to you to consider the request as anything more than pathetic. Get a male models pic and ask her the same thing.... See what part of her body blows then...

Oh I only want to have sex with them. I don’t think that’s morally wrong or unethical. I resent the part about being devious about it but if there’s no other way, gonna have to bite the bullet on that one.

You don't have to be devious or lie. Women rarely ask for intent so don't volenteer it (that's a question men ask women in hopes of hearing something that'll make it easy for them.) If a woman does ask me: "I don't like that question because it changes from person to person. Do you want the same thing from each person in your life?"

Anyways, I’d rather take real situations as opposed to talking about things in a general fashion.

Take this girl for instance:


See, for me, this picture sends the message that the girl is looking for sex.

What kind of first message would you send to convey this idea while, I guess, being indirect enough that she won’t freak out like that other girl?
M.

Girls put up pics looking like they want sex for the guys they'd want to have sex with!

If their reaction to you hitting on them in a sexual way is negative - that only means you aren't the type of guy she wants to hit on her like that.

When i hit on a woman who i think are the "upper levels" looks wise of online dating (the ones who get 100-200 messages a day). I push "@sshole game" hardcore on them and if I can get them engaged in the conversation (even if it's insults back and fourth) I then work on transfering that energy to sexual energy. This has worked for me with the hottest ones i've fvcked from online.

The last one was a clear bad girl from her pics; but had about how she wants a nice guy and she's tired of cheaters, etc in her profile (typical blah blah). My approach to her was basic and she rejected it; so i went with...

Me: You don't really want a nice guy; you'd chew him up and spit him out and leave him broken. Better you stick with what you're good at.
Her: Lol and what am I good at?
Me: Attracting what you are.

Well, you'd have thought I'd spit lava in her face. But it didn't matter. We went at it for about a hour; all that mattered was that she was responding and investing a lot of emotion into her responses.

She got to school and told me she had to go (just like that.)

And yet she kept responding to me and each time was getting softer. To the point i asked told her "stop writing me; pay attention to class" and she said "but you're more interesting."

About a week later she made th drive from about a hour away to come to my place....


It rarely works that well though. But that's how I've landed most of the hotter level girls on there.... By p!ssing them off first and then refusing to care.

 

[jurry]

You can probably send pure gibberish to 40 women and find two that will bang you, i dont see anything particularly novel or effective about this approach. I agree that going to your house or out to eat doesnt make much of a difference, attraction is attraction. The impossibility of an LTR with "modern woman" is bs though, you just have to actually decide you want to take on that kind of commitment in order to make it happen, as opposed to banging different randos every weekend. Just a matter of focus as you say above.

 

[The_411]

Hello guys,

I have contacted literally hundreds of women through internet dating sites. I couldn’t find any good resources regarding this in particular on the net so I figured it would be a good idea to create a thread to share thoughts, ideas and some of my personal experiences. I’d say I have a 5-10% success rate at the moment. It’s not very high and I feel frustration about this at times. To be frank, I think the girls I’ve managed to pull was because of my looks, not because of my actual “game”.

I’m mostly interested in success stories and people successful dating online. I don’t do bars much, I feel out of my element there. Once I meet in person, I can hold my ground, it’s getting the woman to meet with me which I find very difficult. I’ve been racking my brain for so long about this, trying so many things (dozens and dozens and dozens).

Basically, my objective is to keep correspondence to a very strict minimum (waste of time that) and manage to set up a date asap. I didn’t succeed a **** test yesterday, will tell you more about that later on.
So, let us chat, then.

What’s your input, what’s the most fundamental in your opinion when it comes to efficient internet dating?

M.

Like bukowski_merit said,

It's a numbers game. When I was in my late twenties online dating was still fresh/new and there was still a stigma so it wasn't the troll fest it was today.

You have to realize that women are innudated with messages on these sites so they're only going to respond to guys who are modelesque or guys who who write something that is amusing or challenges their auto-reject response.

It's like a casting call or applying for a highly sought after job sometime especially for the best looking women.

So unless you hone your online game and prescreen you could send out 100 responses and maybe get back 10-15 replies and of those 10-15 you might only have 5 who will be willing to go on a date and 1 or 2 of those 5 will flake.

Those are the base statistics now instead of 100 random attrractive women you approach 100 women who share your interest in Kurt Vonnegut. You will likley increase your odds to maybe 25/100 responses and so forth.

The other way is to send something that will prompt them to answer and get the hamster wheel to spin.

The guys who do well who aren't models or made of money do well because they can eliminate leads that they know won't pan out.

It's fine to practice and try to go outside your confort zone, but realize in doing so you can alsospend a lot of needless time chase down deadends.

 

[dasein]

I’m pretty good at drawing so I put on my cartoon drawing as an extra picture in my profile.

Sounds fine.

I was actually thinking of sending a first message and if they reply answer back with something along the line of: “I’m not into virtual relationship so here’s my phone number xxx-xxxx, call me up if you’d like to go for a drink. Otherwise, best of luck to you.” You know, just to get a move on. Again, I’m not sure, too abrupt?

Ask for their number as I posted before, the above sounds passive aggressive or just passive. The vibe you want to project is that you are taking them by the hand in an assertive way and leading them into a fun experience they don't want to miss but that isn't some big pressure production either. Assume they will say yes. I have a near 100% of getting numbers after their first reply, and a pure 100% of getting them to say yes to dates on the first call. After I got good (took a long time) I was going for only the top profiles on the site with similar high percentages.

That, I think, might my shortcoming. I don’t own a tv as I spend most of my time working out, reading and just generally learning stuff. I like to discuss “deep” things like philosophy, politics and so on. I find them mentally stimulating. Is a faux pas in your opinion?

Yep, faux pas. BTW, I'm just like you. But what I learned after many mistakes is that kind of talk doesn't make women want to f you. Provided there is a baseline attraction, what you are then looking for are

1) yoyoing emotional response, some positive some negative... never cerebral on early dates. Her feelings and emotions are moving all over the place. This gets you perceived as "so interesting" and "I want to f this guy's mind" despite not being cerebral in the least. I use "rehearsed but true" stories to get the emotional ball rolling and then turn their stories sensual... but very subtly. Never 20 questions, NEVER "Well gosh I like that too!" or any kind of supplication. In fact, start off listening to anything she says or tells with a slight "smelly dog" disapproving look... she gradually earns your approval by escalating her emotional content in the way you and she both want. Women are subtly tuned into being led and earning approval a little gradually in this way and it makes them wet, all the ones I've met anyway. Learn to use your brain for creating an environment of seductive sexual feelings as opposed to reason or logic.

2) Time compression, subtle changes in location positioning, anything that represents a new environment, can be 5 feet away or merely turning the other way at the bar while having a drink. Walking to the next place is great. Builds a false sense of intimacy/familiarity and erodes defenses,

3) permission, no pressure, it's no big deal - having sex is something adults do millions of times a day, it's never something you beg for or act like it's a big deal. This is why euros do so well here, they are so much less self-conscious and PC IME than Americans. Think of asking her to cook a meal, it will be delicious, but if she doesn't? hey that's fine too. You've done it a thousand times, you will do it a thousand more times. Always be assuming you will be having sex, have it in the back of your mind when talking to her, think of her naked when talking to her to get your pupils dilating and contracting. Look into NLP, another poster mentioned it int the thread also. When she looks at you, you want her to see a man who very obviously and unapologetically wants to have sex with her but is in complete control of himself.

4) there is a "switch" that flips when they decide that not only would they f you, they -might- be ready now. You need to learn how not to sell past this point and shut up, sit back and let them take over some. 90% of the time once the switch is flipped that's all you have to do, getting too aggressive here is the mistake many men make. After the switch is flipped, everything is her idea or at least she thinks it is. The attitude I'm looking for here is that as long as she's making out with me or has her hands all over me, I'll let that time stretch out. They are used to men dragging them out by the hair at this point and the sex is so much better if you let it build some at this point, even if you don't actually have sex that night. It's a done deal, no need to hurry if you've done things right, they are well-hooked and not going anywhere.

5) Maybe most of all, you need her captive in a place where you can hold her attention, not with her c-block friends or dudes, not loud, not a mess. This is what really sets OLD apart, you can place their ass in a chair right in front of you for an hour or two and then manipulate the hell out of them. Sound unfair? Is she wearing makeup, a pushup bra, high heels etc? Then she's no stranger to sexual manipulation.

LOL too much ramble, was on the phone wile typing this. Most of this is well-known stuff, not things I personally devised... some of it is my own and agree with others that finding your own style is important, these are all just ideas that all work for me and have worked well for years. Hope it helps.

 

[jurry]

"Sound unfair? Is she wearing makeup, a pushup bra, high heels etc? Then she's no stranger to sexual manipulation."

Damn bro.. That whole post was fvckin money and that quote just finished it off perfectly. Wow. I'm speechless.

 

[skinnyguy]

I'm curious to know what you guys exactly want out of life.

If you fvck random hoes, you'll ended up bitter and jaded and empty.

If you have a LTR, you'll end up with oneitis and become beta.

It seems like guys really can't win with women.

 

[Mirage]

@Dasein:

Thanks for giving your input about the drawing. I wasn’t sure.
Actually, I don’t feel confident when it comes to internet dating because I haven’t got enough success in that area just yet. This is why I second guess my instinct a lot when it comes to this area. It’ll come as I get more positive experiences.

Ask for their number as I posted before, the above sounds passive aggressive or just passive. The vibe you want to project is that you are taking them by the hand in an assertive way and leading them into a fun experience they don't want to miss but that isn't some big pressure production either. Assume they will say yes. I have a near 100% of getting numbers after their first reply, and a pure 100% of getting them to say yes to dates on the first call. After I got good (took a long time) I was going for only the top profiles on the site with similar high percentages.

Super interesting. I thought that giving them my number would convey the idea that I’m independent. Getting a phone number after the first reply is pretty freaking solid. Kudos, seriously. Any chance you could share an excerpt of a message you would send to get said phone number, I mean, as far as the formulation of the sentence is concerned. I’m pretty sure I could get a date on the first call, that’s not the issue. Getting the number is the issue. If it’s indiscrete, that’s ok. I’m just really impressed by your percentage so you must be doing something right, which means I can learn from you about this.

Yep, faux pas. BTW, I'm just like you. But what I learned after many mistakes is that kind of talk doesn't make women want to f you. Provided there is a baseline attraction, what you are then looking for are

Hmm… I was under that impression. Some women have mentioned being attracted being attracted to cultured people. All in due time, not right at the beginning anyway. This is what I’ll try for now, we’ll see how it pans out.
Also, it’s funny you would say this. I speak French, Chinese, English and some Japanese, have two bachelor degrees, did super well at uni, excel at my job, am in super shape, pretty cultured, funny… and yet I am more often than not “outseduced” by most dudes. Goes to show uh?

1) yoyoing emotional response, some positive some negative... never cerebral on early dates. Her feelings and emotions are moving all over the place. This gets you perceived as "so interesting" and "I want to f this guy's mind" despite not being cerebral in the least. I use "rehearsed but true" stories to get the emotional ball rolling and then turn their stories sensual... but very subtly. Never 20 questions, NEVER "Well gosh I like that too!" or any kind of supplication. In fact, start off listening to anything she says or tells with a slight "smelly dog" disapproving look... she gradually earns your approval by escalating her emotional content in the way you and she both want. Women are subtly tuned into being led and earning approval a little gradually in this way and it makes them wet, all the ones I've met anyway. Learn to use your brain for creating an environment of seductive sexual feelings as opposed to reason or logic.

Like I said before, I’ve tried a lot of things. I’ve tried saying 20 things about myself and have her to do the same and when we reach both of our 20s we would go for a beer. This was to circumvent the “you’re a stranger” barrier. It ended up being to extensive however and interest waned. I still think this might be a viable option if it weren’t too long. The whole “stranger” thing on in the internet is certainly a hurdle.

The only thing which concerns me about this approach is that it might end up in lengthy email exchanges and I don’t want that, it’s too time consuming with very little results.

2) Time compression, subtle changes in location positioning, anything that represents a new environment, can be 5 feet away or merely turning the other way at the bar while having a drink. Walking to the next place is great. Builds a false sense of intimacy/familiarity and erodes defenses,

3) permission, no pressure, it's no big deal - having sex is something adults do millions of times a day, it's never something you beg for or act like it's a big deal. This is why euros do so well here, they are so much less self-conscious and PC IME than Americans. Think of asking her to cook a meal, it will be delicious, but if she doesn't? hey that's fine too. You've done it a thousand times, you will do it a thousand more times. Always be assuming you will be having sex, have it in the back of your mind when talking to her, think of her naked when talking to her to get your pupils dilating and contracting. Look into NLP, another poster mentioned it int the thread also. When she looks at you, you want her to see a man who very obviously and unapologetically wants to have sex with her but is in complete control of himself.

Again, interesting. The part I’m having trouble with however is getting to the actual date.

5) Maybe most of all, you need her captive in a place where you can hold her attention, not with her c-block friends or dudes, not loud, not a mess. This is what really sets OLD apart, you can place their ass in a chair right in front of you for an hour or two and then manipulate the hell out of them. Sound unfair? Is she wearing makeup, a pushup bra, high heels etc? Then she's no stranger to sexual manipulation.

I see what you’re saying but I don’t agree about this. I mean, two wrongs don’t make a right. I don’t want to start debating the ethics of this (although it certainly would be interesting) because that would be beside the objective of the thread. Don’t get me wrong though, there’s a lot of stuff I agree with in your message.

I'm curious to know what you guys exactly want out of life.

If you fvck random hoes, you'll ended up bitter and jaded and empty.

If you have a LTR, you'll end up with oneitis and become beta.

It seems like guys really can't win with women.

Hello Skinnyguy,

I’ll just reply to the part in bold. The rest concerns your personal beliefs and I respect that.

It would take too long to say what I want out of life. It doesn’t limit itself to having sex with random women however. I’m talking about this because this is what the forum is about. Perhaps one day we can discuss our lofty aspirations but this thread is not the right place for that (for me anyway).

A little tip I do:
I record a short audio message. This is very efficient, close to 100% replies. Most guys stick to written messages. The audio makes you stand out and partly disperses the “internet guy” barrier. Give it a try, you’ll see.

@bukowski_merit, 411:

I've read your comments. I want to simmer your ideas for a bit before replying.

 

[Albatross953]

Maybe I'm just jaded, or lazy but sending out 40 emails just seems like a lot of work. I can't really tell you why it works for me, it just does. Plus honestly I'm at a point in my life where I don't want to be some random chicks entertainment. If she's interested great, if not great.


Totally agree with the LTR not coming from online.

 

[Mirage]

"Wow gorgeous photos and I like that you're into fitness. I'd like you to join me for a drink or two tomorrow evening at the Rusty Nail on 5th and Main in Tampa. Will you meet me there?"

Seems awfully direct. Do you get a good rate of success? For now, I'll stick to asking on their first reply for now.

I'll update my picture then. It's not bad but could be better.