Interesting article about "looks" matter.

[ketostix]

Egger, I think you're trying to say that ugly guys get hot women and you're better looking, so you're good enough looking to get a hot girl. And if you don't get hot hot women it must be for some other reason. You have never named what else it might be that causes attraction. You just want to believe it's not your looks and so maybe it's some little thing you can easily change. No offense edger but you probably are good looking to women. I agree there's other aspects to it besides looks, but that doesn't mean that the requiste looks isn't a requirement.

Most hot girl I see are between 19-21 and they are with good looking guys near their own age. I'm totally hetero and I can honestly say I see girls mostly with guys better look than the girls are. I don't know where you're seeing all these ugly guys with attractive girls. I really think you have faulty perception.

 

[edger]

I have to ask, where are you seeing this phenomenon?

Everywhere. Even my friends and colleagues see it, my cousin, strangers that I talk to..so it can't mean me having faulty perception like Ketostix suggests if i'm not the only one seeing it.

 

[edger]

You have never named what else it might be that causes attraction.

What do you mean?

I know I constantly stress on here that a guy's "game" is what draws in the ladies. In my experience, I've realized that most of the time as a guy, you're going to be passed up by hotties without a vibe in the world from them, even if you're a good looking guy. So I've learned not to sit around anymore waiting to get vibes from a hot chick, and just cold-approach. I know for a fact I'm a good looking guy because I've been told countless times by hot women that I am. Plus, I see it myself. I never even ask women what they think of me, they voluntarily TELL me...I've been emailed on how hot they think I am through past websites I've been on..but yet when I'm out there, I don't get vibed that much. Strange. But once again, don't get me wrong, I DO get vibed by hot women, just not with the frequency that I'd like and should be getting.

 

[ketostix]

What do you mean?

I know I constantly stress on here that a guy's "game" is what draws in the ladies. In my experience, I've realized that most of the time as a guy, you're going to be passed up by hotties without a vibe in the world from them, even if you're a good looking guy. So I've learned not to sit around anymore waiting to get vibes from a hot chick, and just cold-approach. I know for a fact I'm a good looking guy because I've been told countless times by hot women that I am. Plus, I see it myself. I never even ask women what they think of me, they voluntarily TELL me...I've been emailed on how hot they think I am through past websites I've been on..but yet when I'm out there, I don't get vibed that much. Strange. But once again, don't get me wrong, I DO get vibed by hot women, just not with the frequency that I'd like and should be getting.

Well now you're backtracking. What are you complaining about? Do you think ugly guys get vibes from women? Women are subtle and don't normally have to approach the guys. You can't expect as a guy to have it as easy as a hot girl does. No one's saying you can be a goodlooking guy and shy or too egotistical to start conversations and get away with it. The point is no "game" is going to overcome not having the requisite level of looks, And if you have good looks all you really need is to be a little out going and able to see IOI's and act on them. Your appearance is a major part of your game and it effects how everything else you do is interpreted, women being subjective as they are.

 

[edger]

Well now you're backtracking. What are you complaining about?

I'm saying, MOST of the time I don't get vibes.

And believe me, I'm good with being able to pick up on certain cues or IOI women throw out when they're interested in you. Whenever I see it, I make my move. I used to not make a move much in the past(AFC days), now whenever the opportunity presents itself, I'm right on it and go in for the kill.

 

[edger]

The point is no "game" is going to overcome not having the requisite level of looks

And this is where I disagree.

It's funny how this "game" thing works. An ugly guy who starts a conversation with a hot chick with a ****y/funny/sarcastic opening will be given a second consideration by her(if she is a woman who places a high importance on looks at the intial stage). Her first impression of him is, "Eww, that guy is nasty", but then turns to, "Hmm...I don't know, I think I might be digging this guy, let's see what else he has to say", since he displayed confidence and sarcastic-playful humor(we all know that makes them wet, don't we?). And if he maintains the ****y/funny thing and confidence during the rest of their rappore, he will most usually be cashing his way in to the bedroom with her. The confidence/humor cancels out or "makes up for" his unattractiveness. Hence this is the way the ugly guy snatches the babes.

And if you have good looks all you really need is to be a little out going

Now you sound like that other dude in this thread, lol. It's got a lot more to do with being "outgoing".

 

[Last Man Standing]

...I don't think heterosexual guys are able to see all the nuances that women find attractive in men, so we aren't the best judges,

"We"??? "Hetero" what? Are you a homo? You sound like one!!!

 

[ketostix]

And this is where I disagree.

It's funny how this "game" thing works. An ugly guy who starts a conversation with a hot chick with a ****y/funny/sarcastic opening will be given a second consideration by her(if she is a woman who places a high importance on looks at the intial stage). Her first impression of him is, "Eww, that guy is nasty", but then turns to, "Hmm...I don't know, I think I might be digging this guy, let's see what else he has to say", since he displayed confidence and sarcastic-playful humor(we all know that makes them wet, don't we?). And if he maintains the ****y/funny thing and confidence during the rest of their rappore, he will most usually be cashing his way in to the bedroom with her. The confidence/humor cancels out or "makes up for" his unattractiveness. Hence this is the way the ugly guy snatches the babes.

Being confident and sarcastically playful is a help, but a hot girl's not usually going to care about some ugly guys C+F routines. First off C+F is being done to death. She can still choose the more attractive guy who also C+F's her. And the main reason it an ugly guy's +F isn't going to get him the hot girl is women subjectively respond and interpret everything through a filter of how attractive the guy is. The C+F will fall on deaf ears and she reframe everything he does negatively. Rarely is she going to change her consideration that the guys unattractive. An average to slightly above average guy can sometimes get hot girls, but I don't see ugly guys doing it much.

 

[frivolousz21]

out of all the men I know....

Id put myself in the attractive/cute/handsome category....below a hot guy.

I get rejected a lot....I can pull hb8...sometimes hb8.5

but 9.0 and above it much harder because that women wants a hot guy.

I have friends or guys i know who are ugly.

guy looks scale-


ugly or very fat(3.0) to (5.0)
average(4.0 to 6.0)
average face but great body(5.0 to 7.0)
above average(6.5 to 8.5)
hot(8.0+)


thats just my subjective opinion on the matter.....I can tell you this...if I was 5'11" instead of 5'7" Id pull 10.0's easy.

looks matter to women a ton....I am 25..I know single women my age want to be with a man who looks attractive...a man that that there female friends and observers, family and so on will say....yea so and so is with a really attractive man.

of course...charm, personality, sarcasm, making her laugh will help....even money.

but looks body and face...MOSTLY FACE..ABOVE ALL ELSE MATTER A TON.

lets put it this way.....just with myspace....since Ive lost nearly 30 lbs and put new pics up.


all of a sudden women are talking to me..even messaging me and meeting up.


all of a sudden women at bars are atleast looking at me...and talking to me with a lot more ease.

all of a sudden women in cars, gas stations, the gym take a 2nd look.

if your thinking women dont care about looks nearly as much if not as much or more then men...you are mistaken..

great game may overcome this....but it will only go so far...I have a couple friends who are ugly...thin in shape and ugly they cant get a cute girl.

 

[Latinoman]

And this is where I disagree.

It's funny how this "game" thing works. An ugly guy who starts a conversation with a hot chick with a ****y/funny/sarcastic opening will be given a second consideration by her(if she is a woman who places a high importance on looks at the intial stage). Her first impression of him is, "Eww, that guy is nasty", but then turns to, "Hmm...I don't know, I think I might be digging this guy, let's see what else he has to say", since he displayed confidence and sarcastic-playful humor(we all know that makes them wet, don't we?). And if he maintains the ****y/funny thing and confidence during the rest of their rappore, he will most usually be cashing his way in to the bedroom with her. The confidence/humor cancels out or "makes up for" his unattractiveness. Hence this is the way the ugly guy snatches the babes.



Now you sound like that other dude in this thread, lol. It's got a lot more to do with being "outgoing".

Actually...the next thing would be "let me look at his watch and shoes...hmmmm....this guys probably has $$$. Let me ask what he does for a living."

Another thing, what you or I might find "ugly" in a guy...many women might find it MASCULINE and even VERY ATTRACTIVE. I always use Benicio del Toro as an example.

Finally...even if you are good looking...the fact you have VERY long hair and dress Heavy Metal might send the vibe that you are one of those guys that is either unemployed or live with their mother.

Even the goth and Metal women, would prefer a man that is economically independent.

 

[edger]

Finally...even if you are good looking...the fact you have VERY long hair and dress Heavy Metal might send the vibe that you are one of those guys that is either unemployed or live with their mother.

Even the goth and Metal women, would prefer a man that is economically independent.

So are you saying that particular vibe won't even make them "lust" for you? Forget about the guys employment/economic situation for a second..when it comes to nothing more than sexual lust, do you believe his employment/economic situation matters to her? Are you saying if she feels a vibe like that, that she'll be completely turned off sexually where she'll not even consider that guy for a one-nighter or f*ck buddy situation?

 

[edger]

Latinoman, do you know why longhaired metal guys have had the stigma of "unemployed" or "lives with their parents" attached to them?

For yrs(although it's gotten a whole lot better), longhaired men have been denied jobs, just because of the length of their hair, or have been told they'd have to cut it. That is why many longhaired Metal guys have had a hard time getting decent jobs(although like I said, it has improved) and have gone unemployed, or forced to live with their parents. And you can blame your discriminative, ignorant, small-minded employers of the U.S. for that.

But like I said, things have progressed and come a long way, where now you have police who have long hair. The NYC Police Dept. in particular is one such law enforcement agency that I know of which allows guys to have long hair.

 

[Tazman]

...I don't think heterosexual guys are able to see all the nuances that women find attractive in men, so we aren't the best judges,

"We"??? "Hetero" what? Are you a homo? You sound like one!!!

lol, how did you come to THAT conclusion? In fact, I thought what I said was quite contrary to being "homo", which was the whole point. If you're a heterosexual man (which I am) you aren't as good a judge of good looking men as women, that's all.

 

[Latinoman]

So are you saying that particular vibe won't even make them "lust" for you? Forget about the guys employment/economic situation for a second..when it comes to nothing more than sexual lust, do you believe his employment/economic situation matters to her? Are you saying if she feels a vibe like that, that she'll be completely turned off sexually where she'll not even consider that guy for a one-nighter or f*ck buddy situation?

Women need to be seduced in order to LUST you. You seduce a woman with your mannerisms, the way you flirt and talk with her, and kino. And of course, she has to find something extremely attractive (it could simply be your Masculinity what she finds attractive).

Many women would sleep with ANYONE because that's how they are wired or due to drugs or lack of self respect. I am sure you are not trying to seduced the easy ones as ANYONE can get those.

 

[Latinoman]

Latinoman, do you know why longhaired metal guys have had the stigma of "unemployed" or "lives with their parents" attached to them?

For yrs(although it's gotten a whole lot better), longhaired men have been denied jobs, just because of the length of their hair, or have been told they'd have to cut it. That is why many longhaired Metal guys have had a hard time getting decent jobs(although like I said, it has improved) and have gone unemployed, or forced to live with their parents. And you can blame your discriminative, ignorant, small-minded employers of the U.S. for that.

But like I said, things have progressed and come a long way, where now you have police who have long hair. The NYC Police Dept. in particular is one such law enforcement agency that I know of which allows guys to have long hair.

Why? Stereotypes. Our parents generation dealt with hippies back in the 60s and 70s.

But it is getting better. I have long hair (especially for the type of work I do and the type of people I meet). I know a handful of scientists and upper level people with hair long enough to get pony-tail.

But fortunately, today's look is the long hair look (as long as mine). Yours might still a little TOO long and of course you will get lot of stereotypical looks.

 

[Tazman]

It's funny how this "game" thing works. An ugly guy who starts a conversation with a hot chick with a ****y/funny/sarcastic opening will be given a second consideration by her(if she is a woman who places a high importance on looks at the intial stage). Her first impression of him is, "Eww, that guy is nasty", but then turns to, "Hmm...I don't know, I think I might be digging this guy, let's see what else he has to say", since he displayed confidence and sarcastic-playful humor(we all know that makes them wet, don't we?). And if he maintains the ****y/funny thing and confidence during the rest of their rappore, he will most usually be cashing his way in to the bedroom with her. The confidence/humor cancels out or "makes up for" his unattractiveness. Hence this is the way the ugly guy snatches the babes.

I'm going to have to disagree with this as it sounds more like a fantasy. I know guys who I consider to have really good "game". They're really outgoing, can talk to anybody it seems, have had plenty of women. However, there's one in particular that comes to mind, and while he's been with a lot of women, I wouldn't consider any of them to be "hot". They pretty much have the same level of attractiveness as he does.

Don't get me wrong, he definitely goes after the hot ones, and it seems like it would be a success when you witness it because most times he comes away with a phone number and the girl laughing/smiling, but in reality they never play out. If he was good looking and/or had money/status of some kind he'd get whatever he wanted.

Actually, I take that back, he did lay a hot girl in highschool, although you could argue his "status" was an important factor at that time because he was in the popular circle, and in highschool that counts for a lot.

 

[edger]

Another thing I noticed -- beautiful women don't have any sense of which guys are ugly. They are actually as much a genetic freak as me. And Asians actually seem to prefer ugly guys -- the 10-2 rule. This is how I got a hot Asian girlfriend who was way out of my league when I no longer had the status of being a (so-called, but not really) Mogul.

Bottom line, if you are ugly, go for the beautiful women, and act like you own a country or two, even if you work at the local DairyQueen. The combination of ugly, assertive and playing King completely fries their brain circuits. Once you get it to a physical point, they get hooked, and then they use what's left of their brain to explain to themselves why you are so wonderful (since you clearly ain't pretty). This is my true life experience.

THANK YOU! See, this guy even see's it.