Insecurity disguised as low interest.

[Clamslammer]

So how do you frame going through this woman’s hoops (I.e. waiting for sex so she doesn’t feel like a slut) in a way that keeps you as an alpha instead of a man going through hoops for sex? Serious question as I want to try and advance my game in this direction.
I’ve just noticed any time I start going down this road, the woman has control of the dynamic by default of me capitulating instead of trying for quick sex like I normally do

Be indifferent to sex. Keep taking her on dates and keep trying. If she puts on the breaks, you back off ans respect it and let her come to you and then you try again. Eventually you will get it. Most guys do not have patience to play the mating game but I look at it as a fun dance between two people.

 

[metalwater]

OP, come on man. Your answer is right here.

Men, why go out with a woman that says no three times before saying yes? She has low interest level. No further analysis is needed.

disagree; reason.

she was avoiding the situation, not ever telling no. as soon as in isolation, she proceeded immediately. this is high interest and possibly higher quality. If it was low interest she would have just agreed quickly to meet with him due to the business, and also might fck him for that reason. In this story, the delay means she was aware. As OP pointed out this situation would have driven most guys nuts if they had no other options.

she never told no. now that could be for business reasons and OP had to decide that and also had a business advantage as the client. it's common for female sales reps to make a quota due to these reasons.

this story also supports that eventually any woman can be gamed if the man is wise enough and persists and has continued access. the business situation was the cause for access and OP capitalized on that in a very smooth way. just as a side note for any guys working on LTR's, this will work regardless of girls status.

 

[BeExcellent]

@BeExcellent can you give examples of situations/dialog when you were seduced?

It doesn’t happen often, lol.

It’s never the dialogue. That’s what I’m trying to explain. It’s much more encompassing than that.

Because I like the playboy archetype I tend to love the man with ballsy bold moves. It is a modus operandi that works for very few men because it has to be utterly congruent and forward as the rest of their presence in the interaction. Decisiveness. Very sexy when it’s congruent.

Here are some examples. Some word...some deed.

First serious BF (me age 20): Walks up to me with intent. Puts his pointer finger on my chest and says: “I’m going to date you...I’m going to marry you...”. (FIRST INTERACTION) We dated 2 years.

Ex lover from 30 years ago when I was 22. We are still close friends and I trust him with my money, my kids and my life: Comes up to me at a backyard sand volleyball game (I’m up a ladder on a roof sunning in a bikini) and says “I’m taking you out TONIGHT for Chinese at XYZ place...” (FIRST INTERACTION). We dated 9 months & broke each other’s hearts...but 30 years later we are still a thing.. I’m the one that got away, lol.

My ex husband when I was hiding in the office in his nightclub (age 30) lamenting the state of affairs regarding an exBF...he leans back in his chair, puts his feet up crosses them at the ankle, puts his hands behind his head and says “You know. I can meet your needs....”and grins slyly. We started dating shortly thereafter and were together almost 20 years, married for 15 years, 3 children and we remain amicable.

Recent exBF of 3 years (I’m age 48) after approaching me, opening me conversationally and changing venues, walks me to my car as I’m leaving AND PRESUMPTUOUSLY GETS IN THE PASSENGER SEAT....I tell him he’s not going home with me & we exchange numbers. Two weeks later we start dating. That was a 3 year LTR.

None of these guys were a first night bang. All were confident, edgy, and cool. All were sexy AF.

Before that kind of bold move will work you have to become a bold man. Lots of IDGAF. That is what the OP has developed. Abundance attitude and IDGAF. It works. But you already have to be that guy.

However...you can learn to be that guy.

Cheers

 

[BeExcellent]

Women love it when men lay all their cards on the table and display strong interest, because then she has all the power. "Awww he really likes me" - the hamster goes to sleep and the vagina goes into a coma.

A woman's wet dream is that all men approach her and offer her marriage and chinese food. Then she doesn't have to get anxious wondering whether he likes her or not.

I just can't help but notice that sex with women is far better when she doesn't know if you really like her or not. That's where that wonderful validation-seeking comes in.

Actually you are incorrect. When a playboy lays all his cards on the table it is an overt expression of sexual DESIRE. That gets a girl very turned on because women want to be desired BY A MAN THEY FIND DESIRABLE.

She then wants to succumb to that desire. But the tension works best with some time for that desire to take root. On both sides.

I am a desirable woman. Men observe this and the bold ones know to put it all on the line because they know and can observe that a desirable woman has myriad options. They step up and step boldly into the game. Why? They like a challenge. Just like I do.

 

[Velasco]

Players know when to say what women want to hear and are very charming in their execution. This is seductive.

Since some on here are not at all experienced in seduction, can you give some examples of this?

Special Girl - Great set, great early texting, she ghosts

She wanted me to say "Yes ofc we're gonna be exclusive before even the first date". here is the principle behind what's going on here: https://mega.nz/folder/YpUi3CAb#Tt5NSluzYPeU6oeBwuqpwg/folder/g49VGQwR 2. Infield -> 6. Double Date Part 1 JP. Watch and listen from 39:44 - 43:00 (a few...

www.skilledseducer.com

 

[BeExcellent]

Special Girl - Great set, great early texting, she ghosts

She wanted me to say "Yes ofc we're gonna be exclusive before even the first date". here is the principle behind what's going on here: https://mega.nz/folder/YpUi3CAb#Tt5NSluzYPeU6oeBwuqpwg/folder/g49VGQwR 2. Infield -> 6. Double Date Part 1 JP. Watch and listen from 39:44 - 43:00 (a few...

www.skilledseducer.com

You miss the point. It isn’t about exclusivity right away at all. It’s about competition. Immediate exclusivity takes away the need to compete. Competing is not the same thing as chasing. Sought after women don’t need to chase a man. Chasing turns a sought after man off sooner rather than later.

@Pan87 you do not understand. Even the playboys want something/someone desirable. Laying it out on the table does not remove the need for competition at all. Rather it throws down the gauntlet and invites engagement like an opening chess move. It says “Game on”...

 

[BeExcellent]

....But you just relayed stories about how "Playboys" went straight up to you and offered to take you out for Chinese food and marriage. And you were so incredibly attracted to them that you turned them into beta providers.

I'd be much more interested in the time a true playboy seduced you on the first date. But that has never happened right? ... You're far too clever and honorable to fall for the sleazy charms of a true fvckboy.

Nobody was ever turned into a Beta provider, lol. I’m not a ONS girl. In fact I’ve never had a ONS. Not a single one.

 

[BeExcellent]

Almost every girl I've ever banged has told me she's never had a ONS before. This is just after I banged her on the first date.

I'm pretty sure she's telling the next 100 guys the same story.

I actually haven’t. I can’t relate events that don’t exist, lol. Even my playboy buddy I run with now tells people who are curious that I am quite conservative and mindful about who I get involved with. I’m a bit of a paradox that way...which of course heightens both my degree of difficulty and intrigues men something fierce.

This is not our thread, although the comments have some application.

Start another thread if you would like a joust with me. I think the OP played it correctly as demonstrated by his results, and is seeing some of the paradoxes that playboys and highly desirable men will and do see out in the field.

 

[Velasco]

Question is why the f would she put out that same evening when not even the guy wants to?

“I’m going to date you...I’m going to marry you...” “I’m taking you out TONIGHT for Chinese at XYZ place...”

(other guy assumed she was down, with his changing venues ("compliance tests" lol)+good conversation)

beexcellent's just never been approached in a way where she'd WANT to sleep with a guy that first night. Not that she's "not a ONS girl" (whatever the f that means lol).

 

[Clamslammer]

Actually you are incorrect. When a playboy lays all his cards on the table it is an overt expression of sexual DESIRE. That gets a girl very turned on because women want to be desired BY A MAN THEY FIND DESIRABLE.

She then wants to succumb to that desire. But the tension works best with some time for that desire to take root. On both sides.

I am a desirable woman. Men observe this and the bold ones know to put it all on the line because they know and can observe that a desirable woman has myriad options. They step up and step boldly into the game. Why? They like a challenge. Just like I do.

Agree with her on this... most guys are not bold thus taking their time thinking they are mysterious and then latch on like a baby on a boob. A confident guy is direct with his intentions at the first meeting which gets the girl wet because it is rare then he backs off and makes her chase him by being indifferent amd mysterious which keeps her chasing.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

OP, come on man. Your answer is right here.

Men, why go out with a woman that says no three times before saying yes? She has low interest level. No further analysis is needed.

Not always.. initial interest levels are practically irrelevant when you are able to see and interact with a woman multiple times. Those are very subject to change.

 

[Barrister]

No one said anything about "thinking you're mysterious' or "latching onto boobs" - you're projecting. It's all about making the woman know you are higher value than her, and this is done by showing her that you don't need her. Laying your cards on the table and telling her that you want her is the opposite of this. You make her the prize and this is beta-ville.

Unfortunately women don't see a guy who directly says "I want to fvck you" or "I want to marry you" as bold and confident. It comes across as uncalibrated and weird. Seduction is a dance of subcommunication that can't be avoided, and guys who can confidently seduce a woman without giving his own power away are the pinnacle of what women find attractive. Women die when they don't know what the guy is thinking (die in a good way). A woman withers away when she knows exactly what you're thinking. It's boring.

@Pan87 - this is more in response to all your posts in this thread and not just the above. The problem is you’re attempting to pigeon hole every woman into the same exact static value. I agree with you that a man should never treat the woman as the prize between himself and her. However, his pursuit of a woman is going to be a lot different depending on the woman herself. I will have to modify my game I use for a potential ONS or plate off Tinder as opposed to the beautiful professional in the fringes of my social circle who I know somewhat. The latter also has more value herself than the Tinderella not only intrinsically but also to me. There are multiple variables. The major difference is you are coming from a place of simply obtaining as high a kill count as you can. If that is the case - you likely don’t care about what I just said. And that’s fine.

I do agree that walking up to a woman and just point blank telling her what you want is USUALLY not a good idea. But I think we can agree that depending on the situation and with the right level of confidence this can also be accomplished.

 

[BeExcellent]

No one said anything about "thinking you're mysterious' or "latching onto boobs" - you're projecting. It's all about making the woman know you are higher value than her, and this is done by showing her that you don't need her. Laying your cards on the table and telling her that you want her is the opposite of this. You make her the prize and this is beta-ville.

Unfortunately women don't see a guy who directly says "I want to fvck you" or "I want to marry you" as bold and confident. It comes across as uncalibrated and weird. Seduction is a dance of subcommunication that can't be avoided, and guys who can confidently seduce a woman without giving his own power away are the pinnacle of what women find attractive. Women die when they don't know what the guy is thinking (die in a good way). A woman withers away when she knows exactly what you're thinking. It's boring.

All this tells me is you are not a high enough value guy. You don’t comprehend what I’m saying because it isn’t your reality.

Always remember. A person with experience is NEVER at the mercy of a person with a theory.

Highly desirable sought after men can and do pull off blatantly bold moves. They are charming & direct. It’s efficient & it screens out the easily offended women and the not interested women. Allowing them to focus on high interest gals. Pretty slick actually.

You don’t need a ONS to experience heartbreak. Another patently obvious thing. I’ve had heartbreak after LTRs. Which I presume is actually worse due to the emotional attachment. Countless threads here indicate the same thing among men.

The sophomoric nature of your binary thinking reveals your own lack. You are welcome to lampoon me as others before you have done. Some of your content is noteworthy. You are way off in this thread however and that will be obvious to a truly high value playboy type man.

Cheers

 

[metalwater]

All this tells me is you are not a high enough value guy. You don’t comprehend what I’m saying because it isn’t your reality.

Always remember. A person with experience is NEVER at the mercy of a person with a theory.

Highly desirable sought after men can and do pull off blatantly bold moves. They are charming & direct. It’s efficient & it screens out the easily offended women and the not interested women. Allowing them to focus on high interest gals. Pretty slick actually.

You don’t need a ONS to experience heartbreak. Another patently obvious thing. I’ve had heartbreak after LTRs. Which I presume is actually worse due to the emotional attachment. Countless threads here indicate the same thing among men.

The sophomoric nature of your binary thinking reveals your own lack. You are welcome to lampoon me as others before you have done. Some of your content is noteworthy. You are way off in this thread however and that will be obvious to a truly high value playboy type man.

Cheers

different location, culture, and position. love the debate. the nuggets are in the parts that both tell albeit in different styles.

 

[Clamslammer]

All this tells me is you are not a high enough value guy. You don’t comprehend what I’m saying because it isn’t your reality.

Always remember. A person with experience is NEVER at the mercy of a person with a theory.

Highly desirable sought after men can and do pull off blatantly bold moves. They are charming & direct. It’s efficient & it screens out the easily offended women and the not interested women. Allowing them to focus on high interest gals. Pretty slick actually.

You don’t need a ONS to experience heartbreak. Another patently obvious thing. I’ve had heartbreak after LTRs. Which I presume is actually worse due to the emotional attachment. Countless threads here indicate the same thing among men.

The sophomoric nature of your binary thinking reveals your own lack. You are welcome to lampoon me as others before you have done. Some of your content is noteworthy. You are way off in this thread however and that will be obvious to a truly high value playboy type man.

Cheers

Exactly, a guy that is not good looking and high value does not have the confidence to walk up to a girl and be direct hence this talk about making the girl the prize or the guy being beta-ville.

Girls are more socially aware than us guys, they know right away who is the catch when they make eye contact with a guy. What is the number one thing girls look for in a guy....confidence. The OP is a doctor and thus has probably some swag because he has had to work on himself to get to this level thus the initial intimidation by the girl. She already knew within the first interaction that he was the "prize"

 

[DEEZEDBRAH]

@DEEZEDBRAH I wish you'd post some examples of dialog of your verbal interactions and scenarios of some successful pulls. It's hard for guys to see exactly where you are coming from when being vague, and not knowing how to load the gun, let alone shoot their shot.

The problem is that guys think about lines or routines vs coming correct.

If MD just show up and be competent. Forget rp. Just know female nature. Many MDS get roped in by the worst of the worst. lots of skank nurses and low hanging fruit. Don't get serious till 40+ if EVER.

I like ToddV million dollar mouth piece. Spit game. Enthusiasm ftw. Calibrate. Not dancing monkey. I like old school Natural Tim flawless natural. I like polarity old school Julien. Push pull. Belligerent. Not walking on egg shells.

Shoot your shot. I used to be subtle. Relied on natural game. Now more flash game. day or night. Break rapport. Come @ her as you would had you beat it rotten and busted on her face. As in I already got mine from Go. Zero ****s. best open is SKIP THE OPEN. You come in hot. crash landing off the rip. If she swallowed your nut how do you approach her?

^^^^
Start here SRS!

 

[Barrister]

There's a concept in PUA called AWALT (All Women Are Like That). The more you deal with lots of different women, the more you realise how true AWALT actually is.

In the Purple Pill community there is a backlash against this concept. It's called NAWALT (Not All Women Are Like That). Unfortunately this comes from a place of idealism and male BluePill denial of female nature.

All women are wired the same way. Men are too. There's nothing wrong with that. Human Sexuality is a fairly predictable machine that's been purposefully obscured in our modern gay world.

The fundamental premise of AWALT is that women, across the board, are far more sexually attracted to a man that is above her in SMV (Sexual Market Value). Women date across and up mating hierarchies. Men date across and down mating hierarchies. If a man dates a woman that is above him in SMV it invariably turns into a disaster sooner or later.

I don’t disagree that men and women are wired a certain way. I also agree with the basic premise of SMV and how it works. These are basic principles we’re talking about here.

That doesn’t change anything I said in my previous post. This isn’t pedestalizing or anything of the sort. Again, as in all of the threads where you and I have an exchange, we are coming from two different spots. I think you come from a place of trying to have as high a notch count as possible. Nothing wrong with that - but that isn’t what my goal is with women. I need a specific set of qualities in order to get something out of it — and that is not limited to physical appearance although that’s very important. I am very selective in this regard. Neither way is wrong. But slapping generic labels on things serves no purpose.

 

[dude99]

I ran into a situation which I feel I should share with you all, perhaps some can learn from it and others, I'm curious as to your thoughts.

I'm a Physician, I have drug reps that visit our office regularly to provide samples, lunches, etc. There was a particular drug rep I found attractive. So after conversing with her for a bit, I asked her to join me for drinks later. She made an excuse. No worries.

I tried again several weeks later. Excuses. No worries.

I tried a third time several weeks later, excuses. No worries.

I tried a fourth time, she said yes. Took her for dinner and drinks, and had sex with her that night.

I've included her in my rotation, and the other day I asked her why she made me wait so long. This was her answer: "You seem like a playboy, and I didn't want to simply be another notch on your drug rep belt." The funny thing is, she is the first drug rep I've slept with, but funny how she assumed.

I kept trying because I didn't really care, I had other plates, and so I was simply just shooting off my shot. However, my question for you all is this: WTF?

Do girls really deny guys based on stupid reasons like this? This changes my perspective, because had I just assumed low interest from the start, I would have just given up. Truth is, interest wasn't low, but other reasons made her deny me? Is that really true? I've always just thought that if a girl doesn't say yes, she's not interested.

How do you all feel about this situation? Thoughts?

Sounds like other doctors have pumped and dumped her in the past. She put up obstacles to run anti sl*t defense on you because by the sounds of it her insecurity made her believe you would do the same. Whether she was right or wrong she is lucky you had patients. Most guys would have nexted her after the first or second no.

 

[Jake_Gyllenhaal69]

Women are natural plate spinners. They love having multiple options. There's no anxiety, only massive, massive dopamine hits all day every day.

disagree, to you it might seem like it.

 

[Guy69JackBlue]

The problem is that guys think about lines or routines vs coming correct.

If MD just show up and be competent. Forget rp. Just know female nature. Many MDS get roped in by the worst of the worst. lots of skank nurses and low hanging fruit. Don't get serious till 40+ if EVER.

I like ToddV million dollar mouth piece. Spit game. Enthusiasm ftw. Calibrate. Not dancing monkey. I like old school Natural Tim flawless natural. I like polarity old school Julien. Push pull. Belligerent. Not walking on egg shells.

Shoot your shot. I used to be subtle. Relied on natural game. Now more flash game. day or night. Break rapport. Come @ her as you would had you beat it rotten and busted on her face. As in I already got mine from Go. Zero ****s. best open is SKIP THE OPEN. You come in hot. crash landing off the rip. If she swallowed your nut how do you approach her?

^^^^
Start here SRS!

I think nurses could be very high quality at times. (Of course no one is perfect). Reason is because they deal with serious sh1t every day. They don't have time for games or little princess delusions.