In A Traditional Marriage, A Woman Don’t Need No Money

[Brother_Rapp]

PRMoon
Your theory really only applies to a time long forgotten, or can only be applied to people who live very basically. Now days with everything getting exponentially more expencive (Landprices, Gas prices, Cost of children, Groceries etc etc.) you'd really have to be quite thick headed not to have your wife be more of your partner rather then some submissive person who you just toss a few bucks to so they can do basic daily activites... Unless you're STINKIN rich (also not very likely). And since your modern wife will have to be in the work place, she'll definatly have a different sense of power. With that sense of power there's very little chance they'll be willing to give up their entire check to their husband or significant other cause "it's the right thing to do".


Brother Rapp
And that’s why a lot of marriages fail. Some of these individuals have gotten confused and have gotten away from the basics of what makes a marriage work. That’s my position on that matter. We are now seeing less and less marriages lasting more then fifty years. In fact, I would say that the average length of a marriage has declined over the years and is going down, not up. Is there any one that’s taking part in this debate that disputes this? If not, can we get to the why of it all? Yes, I’m ol’ school, but I shouldn’t be faulted for that. We have two opposing points of school here, the ol’ and the so-called modern or shared partnership view. If my view is on the way out and the modern is on the way in, then how is it that the average length of marriage is on the way down?




PRMoon
That's just stupid, i mean if you're married and you split both assets, then why can't a woman be equally involved in deciding where the money goes? It's not like the two of you are deciding which way the world should rotate, you're just paying bills.


Brother Rapp
The wife can voice her view on the way of the money. I have no problem with that. Even if she doesn’t contribute a dime towards the financing of the home, she has a right to voice her opinion on the spending of the money. The guy should have the final say in the spending of the money is what I’m saying. It should be his decision to make. The woman should either accept his decisions are get a divorce and find herself somebody else. It is that implied threat of divorce on the basis of poor decision-making that will force the guy to take into consideration the wife’s views. Remember, I am against violence by either party in a marriage.


PRMoon
And if you have savings, then you should both decide equally what you should jointly spend the money on, because you both earned it.

Hell my soon to be girlfriend has way more money then me and probably always will. Her folks are rich and she's gonna be a lawyer, so unless I land a job as a CEO at a fourtune 500 company, there's very little chance that I'll be the number 1 source of income in our household (If things get that serious). Why should I waste time arguing with her as to why I should be making all of the decisions about where her money gets spent? Gotta face it your traditional marriage is on the extinction list and a new type of traditional marriage is coming to light.

Brother Rapp
If you don’t exercise your role as the traditional husband, your marriage is doomed to failure. You will start by cheating on her if you aren’t already doing it. Then you will get caught and she will divorce you.

 

[Brother_Rapp]

Wyldfire
I didn't catch the part about your wife passing away. I'm sorry for your loss.

Perhaps you don't mean to come across as sounding like you view women as a possession, but in reality...that is exactly how you are coming across. No two women are exactly the same and no two relationships are, either. You are not going to find a carbon copy of your deceased wife or a mirror image of your relationship with her.


Brother Rapp
Thank you for your words. However, my reasons for posting this argument is to validate my beliefs in the strength that can be gotten from two people entering into and maintaining the traditional marriage. If I am right, it will go a long way in explaining the causes of broken homes, the poverty, crime and physical abuse (in the families of today that is produced) that we see today. If you believe that someone is drowning, you have an obligation to help them. If they don’t want to take that help, that’s on them.


Wyldfire
Feminism HAS contributed to changing a lot of things...but in order for it to have an influence on women to the extent it has there HAD to be dissatisfaction among women about how their lives were. That's the bottom line. An ideology cannot take a foothold where there is no unhappiness with the status-quo.


Brother Rapp
I said this earlier.
This is were we really differ. The feminist movement has played a big part in the brainwashing of women. I believe that women are shamed by the feminist movement into rejecting the role of the traditional wife. There will always be marriages that will fail. Those marriages that failed gave steam to the feminist movement. The whole shyt kept snowballing after that. I think that you would call that a self fulfilling prophesy. It’s sort of like we have violent crimes because we have guns, therefore we need guns to protect ourselves. But if nobody had guns, would we have violent crimes and would we therefore need guns to protect ourselves? The more guns that a gun manufacturer sells the more guns he will be able to sell. The more feminist are allowed to brainwash the heads of women, the more they will be able to brainwash the heads of women.




Wyldfire
Women wanted more choices...and there is nothing wrong with that. Yes, Feminism has gone way too far with the male bashing and giving women an unfair advantage legally, among other things...but in the grand scheme of things...if women were truly happy with how their lives were back in the day they would still be embracing that kind of lifestyle.


Brother Rapp
Yes, women should have choices. How are you going to come to a good decision for yourself, if you don’t have choices? I’m just saying that the views preached by feminist is not the best choice for women to make and the decline in the average length of marriages bares me out.

Wyldfire
To see proof that women were not satisfied or happy all you have to do is take an honest look at how they are utilizing the choices they have now. Perhaps that reality is hard for you and others to swallow...but truth be told...it's still the reality and like it or not, it's what you are going to have to accept and deal with. Sure, there are a very limited number of women who would be tolerant of the conditions you talk about...but again, the likelihood of finding one is virtually nil.

Brother Rapp
This is something that people have to come to a realization on their own. You can tell a kid that a stove is hot and he will get burnt if he touches it, that don’t mean that he won’t do it. Women are awaking to the ill conceived notions of the feminist movement. As more and more women see it for what I believe it is (a revenge against men), women will forgive men for straying from the path. Men will embrace their traditional role as women remind them of what it was. Women will feel comfortable in their ability to choose a man that they can trust to play that role with their consent.

 

[Climax]

ENOUG ENOUGH ENOUGH!!! ffs, how much do you write?!

Brother_Rapp: U have alot of time on your hands.... TOO much time man....

Suggestion: Get out and pimp some chicks and please stop taking out your sexual frustrasion out on these forums


Laterz...

 

[SheDevil]

Sorry about the previous post, the batteries died in my mouse and when I changed them it 'sent'.

B_R: "Because somebody may not agree with you, you say that their mind is closed? Have you found any thing in any of my posts that you agree with in even the slightest way?"

SD: It is your universal PREACHING of, 'your standards are right and other are wrong', that I find to be very narrow minded thinking. The best part of your entire post is that YOU know what YOU want and what YOU feel will work for YOU. I may not agree with it but knowing what works for YOU is a good foundation in a relationship.

SD: “I feel your skills with women are very limited, this is fully based on the 'stuff' you are preaching. You want more in a woman, dont you?”

B_R: "What I want is my wife back. We were married 12 years and she passed away in ’96. She was truly a wonderful woman. I want my wife back"

SD: I am so sorry to hear of your loss, I truly am. To still long for her after 9 years tells me she was very special to you.

It also causes me more concerns.

You are going to find this woman you desire, the one who wants to 'render to you all the power' and look to you to point the way. Be careful, please.

There are some (NOT ALL) but some woman who have balanced the budget, raised the kids, managed the car, the lawn, the house, all on their own, for so long they are tired, they want relief, they want someone else to take the reins for a while.

She will gladly hand it all to you, you will be her 'savior' and her 'liberator'.

She doesnt want to manage money anymore, she doesnt want to make sure the oil gets changed in the car, she doesnt want to weed the flower beds, she doesnt want the job, she doesnt want the hassles -- AND SHE MAY NOT WANT YOU.

She may just want the RELEIF and the BANK. Is this your desire?

As you can see in these many replies, not many agree with your way of thinking. Should you find a woman who says she does see it your way, please be careful.

Just protect yourself from being used and being hurt.

Step back a minute, read the post and listen to some of the advise being given. Some of these men do mean to be very helpful.

Take care.

 

[Wyldfire]

Originally posted by Brother_Rapp

Thank you for your words. However, my reasons for posting this argument is to validate my beliefs in the strength that can be gotten from two people entering into and maintaining the traditional marriage. If I am right, it will go a long way in explaining the causes of broken homes, the poverty, crime and physical abuse (in the families of today that is produced) that we see today. If you believe that someone is drowning, you have an obligation to help them. If they don’t want to take that help, that’s on them.

Society is no longer compatable with the "traditional marriage" you are speaking of. And no, you can't blame everything on feminism. Technology has contributed to the decay of society with sensationalism on television, in movies, video games. Let's not forget drugs, alcohol and such, either...and commercialism. All of these things have had a huge impact on society.


I said this earlier.
This is were we really differ. The feminist movement has played a big part in the brainwashing of women. I believe that women are shamed by the feminist movement into rejecting the role of the traditional wife.

I don't see this...and I know that I have NEVER felt that way. I actually really tried to like being a traditional wife...I wanted to like it. I hated it. I can't even begin to say how badly I hated it. Some of that could have been because I was with a diabolical arsehole...but I don't think so. I'm a very intelligent woman. I have always needed intellectual stimulation and challenge. I wanted college and to have a career that utilized my mind. Those desires did not come from any subliminal messages or "brainwashing". Those urges came from deep inside of ME. I reject the idea of staying at home, wasting my mind and time and feeling possessed by someone else because I can't be happy under such conditions.

There will always be marriages that will fail. Those marriages that failed gave steam to the feminist movement. The whole shyt kept snowballing after that.

Women didn't embrace feminism because some marriages failed. They embraced feminism because they didn't want to feel like they "HAD" to get married in order to survive. Many women used to marry men they didn't even love or want just for security purposes.

I think that you would call that a self fulfilling prophesy. It’s sort of like we have violent crimes because we have guns, therefore we need guns to protect ourselves. But if nobody had guns, would we have violent crimes and would we therefore need guns to protect ourselves? The more guns that a gun manufacturer sells the more guns he will be able to sell. The more feminist are allowed to brainwash the heads of women, the more they will be able to brainwash the heads of women.

Guns don't kill people or commit violent acts...people do...and if they didn't use guns they would use some other means. Feminism hasn't brainwashed women to oppose marriage. It HAS fooled women into thinking less of men and thinking they aren't treated equally when women acutally have an advantage now. Women still get married and most want to get married...they just want to have the same choices, opportunities and equality in the relationship that their husband has. They don't want to feel controlled or dictated to.



Yes, women should have choices. How are you going to come to a good decision for yourself, if you don’t have choices? I’m just saying that the views preached by feminist is not the best choice for women to make and the decline in the average length of marriages bares me out.

Well, I'm of the belief that the only one suited to determine what choice is best for me is, well...me. Likewise, the only one suited to determine what choice is best for you is you. It sounds like you actually believe that women are not capable of deciding what is best for them. It's comments like this one that keeps getting you into hot water on here. You may not see it, but you do come off like you view women as less than men. The comments are subtle..but they are there.

This is something that people have to come to a realization on their own. You can tell a kid that a stove is hot and he will get burnt if he touches it, that don’t mean that he won’t do it. Women are awaking to the ill conceived notions of the feminist movement. As more and more women see it for what I believe it is (a revenge against men), women will forgive men for straying from the path. Men will embrace their traditional role as women remind them of what it was. Women will feel comfortable in their ability to choose a man that they can trust to play that role with their consent.

Women are realizing the way men are demonized and bashed...yes...that's one of the ways in which feminism went too far. And yes, much of the animosity towards men as a gender will subside over time...but it's not going to go back to women being like June Cleaver. Women are still going to work and be independent and not want to be controlled...they just won't blame men for everything that doesn't go their way in life and they will be easier to get along with and less demanding. They still are NOT going to want to go back to "traditional marriage" in the form you speak of. It's just NOT going to happen.

 

[Brother_Rapp]

Feminism is a reaction that was brought about because of the treatment of women by the highly abusive actions of a few men. Because men in general were turning a blind eye to this abuse, women took matters into their own hands. I can’t blame women at all for doing it. Sometimes the law works slow. The only reason that I can think of for women marching to get the right to vote is that they lost faith in the ability of men to straighten out the ****. I really would like to get a hold of the statistics on criminal violence towards men by women leading up to the period in which women won the right to vote. I would dare say that it was on the increase. I’ve often joked that women got the right to vote from pyssy whipped men. That’s not true by a long shot. Those guys were scared of those gals. If you’re going to sleep next to somebody, you better be sure that they have a smile on their face before you close your eyes.

Now I know that we guys often think that we run everything. The truth of the matter is that people run things with the consent of others. When you don’t give a **** about others is when you get took down. John D. Rockefella (illegal trust), Richard Nixon (war in Cambodia) Al Copone (bootlegging), and the guy that got his dyck cut off some years back is proof of that. Guys have to accept this and most now do. Feminism has now gone beyond just being a wake up call for men. It is now an instrument of revenge used by a large number of women which is self perpetuating. It produces it’s own justification for existence. Women have to get over it. They have to understand that while some of us guys are slow, we’re getting the message. There are laws in place that will take care of a guy, if he is abusive and / or won’t pay child support. There are divorce laws that will kill a guy in court, if his dyck wonders. People only do what they have to do and no more to get what they want. If men had clamped down on abusive husbands in the 1800’sw these laws wouldn’t have had to be put on the books now. If women had not stepped up when they did, more and more men would have tried and gotten away with more and more violence on women. Men would have just kept pushing and pushing the shyt. “Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.” That’s why our leaders run our government with the consent of the people. We give them this power and we can take it away. In that respect, it’s like the marriage that two people enter into. I voted for Ross Perot. Probably a bad choice. People make bad choices when entering into marriage. Shyt happens. We go on. We go on because we have to. Which means that we have to go pass past mistakes.

Women have to get over the poor choices that some of them have made. Women have to go on past their revenge and forgive men for the mistakes that they made. Both sexes need to look at the results (broken homes, ill prepared children, crime) of their actions and see the folly of it all. It’s not going to happen overnight. But it can start with one woman telling her husband, that he WILL do his job or she will get somebody who will. It can start with one man telling his wife that if she doesn’t trust him, then she should be with somebody else. Each party in a marriage have to embrace their traditional roles and carry out those roles with the consent of the other.

 

[Wyldfire]

For a few women feminism might have been a way of fighting back against abusive men...but I doubt that was the main reason. I mean, think about it...women used to essentially be treated like they were dumb and had no opinions, views or dreams of things they would like to achieve in their life. They were treated as maids, prostitutes, baby makers and nannies. Their work didn't end after the end of the workday. It was a 24 hour a day job. Women lived only to fulfil the needs of the children and man while her wishes for herself were not even acknowledged as existing, let alone being discussed or pursued. No one can be truly happy with that kind of life, even with a good man. Feminism came to be not because of bad men, but because women wanted more for themselves than what the current fate had in store for them. That's not saying that Feminism hasn't gone too far with the revenge and blame thing...because it has. Feminists are much like Jews in that the pain of the past isn't let go or forgotten due to the fear of history ever repeating itself. Although that is understandable...it does lead to some unfair and irrational behavior that is motivated by that fear.

 

[Brother_Rapp]

Wyldfire
I don't see this...and I know that I have NEVER felt that way. I actually really tried to like being a traditional wife...I wanted to like it. I hated it. I can't even begin to say how badly I hated it.

Brother Rapp
I can just picture you handing your check to your guy and throwing up at the same time.




Wyldfire
Some of that could have been because I was with a diabolical arsehole...but I don't think so. I'm a very intelligent woman.

Brother Rapp
That don’t mean that you couldn’t have made a bad choice.


Wyldfire
I have always needed intellectual stimulation and challenge. I wanted college and to have a career that utilized my mind.

Brother Rapp
I got no problem with a traditional wife wanting to go to school. My #2 daughter supported this guy while he went to school. Upon graduation, they got married got married. She had two kids got her tubes tied and went to school most of the time. She balanced school with mother hood and taking care of her husband. All along, I advised her to not get her priorities screwed up. She loves her husband. She loves her kids. And her family comes first. Career or school or anything else has to stand in line behind them. If a person feels that their brain is underutilized, then by all means that person should go utilize it.



Wyldfire
Those desires did not come from any subliminal messages or "brainwashing". Those urges came from deep inside of ME. I reject the idea of staying at home, wasting my mind and time and feeling possessed by someone else because I can't be happy under such conditions.


Brother Rapp
I’m not saying that the traditional wife should physically be within those four walls 24-7. Did you think that the guy was supposed to handcuff her to a stove and rope her leg to a bed? Is that what you thought I meant???


Wyldfire
Well, I'm of the belief that the only one suited to determine what choice is best for me is, well...me. Likewise, the only one suited to determine what choice is best for you is you.

It sounds like you actually believe that women are not capable of deciding what is best for them.


Brother Rapp
In no way have I meant to portray anything of that nature. Making decisions, either good or bad, is not gender inherent.



Wyldfire
It's comments like this one that keeps getting you into hot water on here. You may not see it, but you do come off like you view women as less than men. The comments are subtle but they are there.


Brother Rapp
For real????? I’ll have to try and work on that.

 

[Brother_Rapp]

SD: I am so sorry to hear of your loss, I truly am. To still long for her after 9 years tells me she was very special to you.

It also causes me more concerns.

You are going to find this woman you desire, the one who wants to 'render to you all the power' and look to you to point the way. Be careful, please.

Brother Rapp
I’m not looking for anyone. Somebody comes they come, they don’t they don’t. I have lived a good life. I’m content to take my memories to my grave with me (don’t cry for me Argentina).



SD
There are some (NOT ALL) but some woman who have balanced the budget, raised the kids, managed the car, the lawn, the house, all on their own, for so long they are tired, they want relief, they want someone else to take the reins for a while.


Brother Rapp
They did all that because they had to, not because they wanted to. Do you agree?

 

[Wyldfire]

Originally posted by Brother_Rapp

I can just picture you handing your check to your guy and throwing up at the same time.

Actually, upon anyone demanding that I "turn over my paycheck" to them, I would be out the door in the blink of an eye. I would not tolerate it for a second. I'd glady contribute to paying the bills and use my income for the good of the family...but there is NO WAY I would be handing my paycheck over. Hell would freeze over first.


That don’t mean that you couldn’t have made a bad choice.

In a sense, yes, I did...unfortunately I was just 18 years old, it was my first real relationship and I was entirely clueless of those tell tale "warning signs"...and no one bothered to warn me. Looking back now...I'm glad I made the choice I did...because I got three wonderful children out of it and all the hell I went through made me into who I am now...and I am VERY happy with the person I am. It only took me one arsehole to learn my lesson, too. I can spot men like that a mile away now and they repulse me.


I got no problem with a traditional wife wanting to go to school.

Women should NOT get married before pursuing their own personal goals and dreams.



In no way have I meant to portray anything of that nature. Making decisions, either good or bad, is not gender inherent.


For real????? I’ll have to try and work on that.

Yes...that IS how you're coming across...whether you mean to or not.

 

[PRMoon]

Brother_Rapp
We are now seeing less and less marriages lasting more then fifty years. In fact, I would say that the average length of a marriage has declined over the years and is going down, not up. Is there any one that’s taking part in this debate that disputes this? If not, can we get to the why of it all? Yes, I’m ol’ school, but I shouldn’t be faulted for that

PRM
The divorce rateis about 50% in this country and it is partly because women are having more affairs, some from the work place. But the economy is in such a different place now that having the RISK of that happeneing rather then being bounced into our socil system while lying in wait is like playing russian roulette.

Brother_Rapp
The guy should have the final say in the spending of the money is what I’m saying. It should be his decision to make. The woman should either accept his decisions are get a divorce and find herself somebody else.

PRM
And why should the man have the finals say? What if your wife is a finacial wizard and you're a dumb ass when it comes to money? Just signing your name to all the bills is pretty much just you taking credit for her knowledge, which is no less then making her one of your employees. Making the decisions equally between the two of you would clearly be the best way to go, not only because of the feeling of mutual gradification you both get, but also the fact that if you are indeed a jack ass when it comes to money you'll have no troubles learning from your wife who's also your equal partner.

Brother Rapp
If you don’t exercise your role as the traditional husband, your marriage is doomed to failure. You will start by cheating on her if you aren’t already doing it. Then you will get caught and she will divorce you.

PRM
This just isn't true. I've seen many matriarchal marriages where the woman is for the better part the head of household and those marriages have lasted the duration of their lives. Just because things have "worked" in the ways you've stated for so long (which is very debatable in itself) does not mean that it's the only way. Men who let the women they truely love and trust run their lives are no less men then you or I.

Brother_Rapp
Feminism is a reaction that was brought about because of the treatment of women by the highly abusive actions of a few men

PRM
Feminst are fighting against unsceen atrosities that have carried on throughout human history. Women have (and in many cases are) viewed as the inferior sex. Be it mentally, physically, emotianly what have you men have always viewed them as weak. Domesitc abuse is not a sometimes thing, it happens and has happened a lot in the past and it continues now. Many of the cases go un reported because the majority of women who are abused are just too scared to do anything about it. To say that the treatment of "a few men" sparked the idea is just ludacris. Your view of the traditional marriage is to turn a blind eye to this abuse, as was done in the era in which it was prevelant.

The type of gender inequality you're stating, where men have the final finacial decisions is not impossible but not very likely to happen. You have to face it the world has changed and to think tha marriages won't evolve along with that change is foolish. And lets say you're right and I should go with a more traditinol marriage, that still doesn't garuntee that things will work out okay. I'll just give you two quick scenerios then I'm done.

A. On one hand; I as a man need more money because of the finacial strain caused by our current economy. So I marry a girl who's got a mind for buisness and is willing to work along with me. I trust and love this woman as an equal, she has to make smart decisons everyday so I trust her with her own money. If things work out then we live happily ever after. If things don't work out and she cheats on me or I get divorced then it just wasn't ment to be. I did everything possible to survive in the modern world under it's new rules. I put myself in a position to suceed and I'll probably repeat the experience again.

B. On the other hand; I as a man still need more money because of the economy and what not. But I'd still rather have my wife stay home with my children while I remain the cheif bread winner. So I find a new job or get a second one in which i make just about all the money i'll ever need, but it requires me to be away from home more now. So my wife, who still has to make smart decisons that I trust and love, just has a pretty smile and fixes me dinner everynight. If things work out I still live happily ever after. If things don't work out then she's screwing my neigbor because she's bored being at home while I work all the time trying to make ends meet, or she finds a guy at my corporate party and starts seeing him under my nose, because I work so much. I still did everything possible to survive in the modern world under it's new rules. I put myself into a position to suceed and I'll probably do the same thing again.

The point I'm driving at here is with the world being the way it is you take a risk either way. Women in the modern world have more freedom whether you're in a traditional marriage or not. You have an equal chance at sucess or failure either way. Just by you being the primary finacial decsion maker has no bearing on the situation. It's the evolution of mans life that has things the way they are. More and more housewives as well as buisness women are cheating in our modern world. So a you see a "traditional" marriage like the one's your portrating are on the way out because of the modern envoriment they're faced with.

 

[Brother_Rapp]

Actually, upon anyone demanding that I "turn over my paycheck" to them, I would be out the door in the blink of an eye. I would not tolerate it for a second. I'd glady contribute to paying the bills and use my income for the good of the family...but there is NO WAY I would be handing my paycheck over. Hell would freeze over first.

Why do you feel this way?

 

[PRMoon]

Uhhhh because she's not a slave??? Working a long days work only to come home to some one who just puts out their hand and tells you to fork it over amounts to nothing short of slave labor. She worked hard for that money why doesn't she deserve an equal say in how it's spent?

 

[Wyldfire]

Originally posted by Brother_Rapp
Actually, upon anyone demanding that I "turn over my paycheck" to them, I would be out the door in the blink of an eye. I would not tolerate it for a second. I'd glady contribute to paying the bills and use my income for the good of the family...but there is NO WAY I would be handing my paycheck over. Hell would freeze over first.

Why do you feel this way?

Because it's disrespectful, rude and controlling. I'll be having NONE of that, thank you very much.

 

[Wyldfire]

PRMoon...that last long post you made I agree with 100%...not gonna quote it, just wanted to say that I agree. You have the right attitude about how a marriage should work and if you ever go that route you should fare pretty well if you make sure the woman is on the same page as you are.

 

[Brother_Rapp]

PRM
The divorce rateis about 50% in this country and it is partly because women are having more affairs, some from the work place.

But the economy is in such a different place now that having the RISK of that happeneing rather then being bounced into our socil system while lying in wait is like playing russian roulette.



Brother Rapp
Women entering the workplace causes them to have an extramarital affair and leads to divorce? I don’t buy that. A job is not an automatic excuse for having an affair. I would submit that a woman has an affair when she looses faith in her husband’s ability to be a man. A guy can bring in an unemployment check or a top notch salary and it shouldn’t matter. For richer or poorer is part of the promise made in the marriage ceremony.







PRM
And why should the man have the finals say? What if your wife is a finacial wizard and you're a dumb ass when it comes to money? Just signing your name to all the bills is pretty much just you taking credit for her knowledge, which is no less then making her one of your employees. Making the decisions equally between the two of you would clearly be the best way to go, not only because of the feeling of mutual gradification you both get, but also the fact that if you are indeed a jack ass when it comes to money you'll have no troubles learning from your wife who's also your equal partner.

Brother Rapp
As long as he does the job, he won’t. Tell you what.

For Gals
If you are a gal go grocery shopping with your guy and play dumb in buying the groceries. Just screw it all up. Okay? Tell him that you took a stupid pill or something. Whatever. Ask him to just pick stuff and you go and seat up front while he does the shopping. What ever he brings to the checkout counter, don’t criticize him. He may make some bad decisions but they all won’t be bad. Give him some praise for the good decisions that he made. Don’t complain at all whatever you do. Then do it again next week. He’ll get better and better at it till it becomes his regular job. The stupid motherfycker will think that he’s accomplishing something. He’s a real success. It’ll be his job till you criticize him. Then he will get frustrated and say “Well you do it, if you think you’re so smart.” On those occasions when he does screw up, forget it. Don’t ever throw it into his face like you would do a dog whose shyt on the carpet. That way he won’t feel hesitant about talking to you about whatever ideas he may have. If he tells you that he wants to do something and it fails and you rub his nose in it, it hurts your relationship. It doesn’t mean that he will stop doing things that you might deem as risky. It just means that he won’t tell you about it. If he can’t talk to you and get your support, he’ll find a gal that “UNDERSTANDS HIM”. I know you’ve heard that before.

For Guys
If you have a wife or girl friend that is the least bit mechanically inclined, be a cluts around the lawn motor or putting in lights or fixing stuff around the house. Stand back and let her take over. She’ll end up changing the oil in your car before it’s over. Just don’t complasin and give her little bits of encouragement and praise. The gal will eat that shyt up just like a guy will.





The guy won’t do the finances as long as the wife does them. She has to teach him and stand back. Her one question should be, “Is it worth getting a divorce over?” If she starts nagging the sex life goes down hill. No man can accept nagging and perform well in bed. Just not going to happen. Try it with your guy. Go nag him and then say that you want to screw. So a smart woman, who wants good sex, will try to avoid situations where she will have to nag her guy. At least not untill the honey moon is over.

And you keep on talking about the wife being an equal partner. I’m not against that. Women and men are equal but in different ways. There are some things that women inherently do better then men. Women are better nurturers. They have the equipment to give birth and fed babies. Men are natural aggressors. You want to fight a war, send the men. If you’re looking for defense and protection, call a man. A woman does not handle the role of the traditional husband well. A man does not handle the role of the traditional wife well. Generally speaking, She’s better at her job then he is and he is better at his job then she is.



Brother Rapp
If you don’t exercise your role as the traditional husband, your marriage is doomed to failure. You will start by cheating on her if you aren’t already doing it. Then you will get caught and she will divorce you.
PRM
This just isn't true. I've seen many matriarchal marriages where the woman is for the better part the head of household and those marriages have lasted the duration of their lives. Just because things have "worked" in the ways you've stated for so long (which is very debatable in itself) does not mean that it's the only way. Men who let the women they truely love and trust run their lives are no less men then you or I.
Brother Rapp
The sex life goes down hill. The guy is put in a position where he is powerless. He receives no sexual gratification. The guy will cheat.



PRM
Feminst are fighting against unsceen atrosities that have carried on throughout human history. Women have (and in many cases are) viewed as the inferior sex. Be it mentally, physically, emotianly what have you men have always viewed them as weak. Domesitc abuse is not a sometimes thing, it happens and has happened a lot in the past and it continues now. Many of the cases go un reported because the majority of women who are abused are just too scared to do anything about it. To say that the treatment of "a few men" sparked the idea is just ludacris. Your view of the traditional marriage is to turn a blind eye to this abuse, as was done in the era in which it was prevelant.

Brother Rapp
You act as if no man has ever been abused by his wife. That goes on to. We men are often too embarrassed to admit that our wife may be physically abusing us. NoOOO it can’t happen to us guys. It’s just like racial bigotry. You hear a lot about it coming from whites, but it’s politically incorrect to talk about it coming from blacks or Latinos. That don’t mean that it doesn’t happen, only that it’s less publicized. Look at the press that grown women are just now getting for having sex with underage boys. Do you think that this stuff just sprang up all of a sudden?? So let’s both admit that there is physical abuse in some marriages, but more so towards women by men then men by women. Let’s get beyond that and argue why it happens at all.


PRM
The type of gender inequality you're stating, where men have the final finacial decisions is not impossible but not very likely to happen.

Brother rapp
Whether it’s likely to happen or not is not a valid argument for it being either right or wrong.









PRM
You have to face it the world has changed and to think tha marriages won't evolve along with that change is foolish.

Brother Rapp
I was a baby, then a teenager, then a young man and now I’m an old man. I evolved, but I still basically have two arms. I still have two legs and so forth and so on. Cutting off an arm is changing the basics. Switching roles in a marriage is changing the basics.

PRM
And lets say you're right and I should go with a more traditinol marriage, that still doesn't garuntee that things will work out okay. I'll just give you two quick scenerios then I'm done.

Brother Rapp
No marriage is ever a guarantee. Marriage is based on trust and faith. You can throw love in there, if you like. Love comes after the first two are exchanged.


PRM
A. On one hand; I as a man need more money because of the finacial strain caused by our current economy. So I marry a girl who's got a mind for buisness and is willing to work along with me. I trust and love this woman as an equal, she has to make smart decisons everyday so I trust her with her own money. If things work out then we live happily ever after. If things don't work out and she cheats on me or I get divorced then it just wasn't ment to be. I did everything possible to survive in the modern world under it's new rules. I put myself in a position to suceed and I'll probably repeat the experience again.

B. On the other hand; I as a man still need more money because of the economy and what not. But I'd still rather have my wife stay home with my children while I remain the cheif bread winner. So I find a new job or get a second one in which i make just about all the money i'll ever need, but it requires me to be away from home more now. So my wife, who still has to make smart decisons that I trust and love, just has a pretty smile and fixes me dinner everynight. If things work out I still live happily ever after. If things don't work out then she's screwing my neigbor because she's bored being at home while I work all the time trying to make ends meet, or she finds a guy at my corporate party and starts seeing him under my nose, because I work so much. I still did everything possible to survive in the modern world under it's new rules. I put myself into a position to suceed and I'll probably do the same thing again.


B. Brother Rapp
C. In both these cases, you gave a scenario. Basically, what you asked me was did these things happen. I have to say they did because you said so. There was no “If I do this WILL this happen?”

 

[Brother_Rapp]

Wyldfire
Because it's disrespectful, rude and controlling. I'll be having NONE of that, thank you very much.

Brother Rapp
I believe it was you who brought the demanding of the paycheck in. How about just giving him all your paycheck? Can you forsee a possible scenario relationship with a man by which you would just give him your paycheck and not worry about it? Other then hell freezing over?

 

[MetalFortress]

This just isn't true. I've seen many matriarchal marriages where the woman is for the better part the head of household and those marriages have lasted the duration of their lives. Just because things have "worked" in the ways you've stated for so long (which is very debatable in itself) does not mean that it's the only way. Men who let the women they truely love and trust run their lives are no less men then you or I.

My ex girlfriend's parents had a marriage like that. The mom was very much the head of the household. Interestingly, I could sense that neither of the two were really truly happy. I never saw them kiss once, even. But I never saw them "fight' either. They may have been together a long time, but that doesn't mean things can't be done better all the same. And judging from watching them, I think things could have been done way better.

Interestingly, my ex being used to this setup, made her not used to me being a leaderly type of guy.

 

[PRMoon]

Brother_Rapp
Women entering the workplace causes them to have an extramarital affair and leads to divorce? I don’t buy that. A job is not an automatic excuse for having an affair. I would submit that a woman has an affair when she looses faith in her husband’s ability to be a man. A guy can bring in an unemployment check or a top notch salary and it shouldn’t matter. For richer or poorer is part of the promise made in the marriage ceremony.

PRM
You're wrong about this one. Like I always do I did legitamate studies on why the divorce rate has gone up so much. With women being in the work place comes addtional temptations (That were limited to men until the womens lib reveloution) that accounts partly for extramarital affairs. A lot of them do it for the thrill, the danger or whatever. True some of them have lost faith in their men but the other reasons (for cheating) are just as valid and for the most part more realistic.

Brother_Rapp
As long as he does the job, he won’t. Tell you what.

For Gals
If you are a gal go grocery shopping with your guy and play dumb in buying the groceries. Just screw it all up. Okay? Tell him that you took a stupid pill or something. Whatever. Ask him to just pick stuff and you go and seat up front while he does the shopping. What ever he brings to the checkout counter, don’t criticize him. He may make some bad decisions but they all won’t be bad. Give him some praise for the good decisions that he made. Don’t complain at all whatever you do. Then do it again next week. He’ll get better and better at it till it becomes his regular job. The stupid motherfycker will think that he’s accomplishing something. He’s a real success. It’ll be his job till you criticize him. Then he will get frustrated and say “Well you do it, if you think you’re so smart.” On those occasions when he does screw up, forget it. Don’t ever throw it into his face like you would do a dog whose shyt on the carpet. That way he won’t feel hesitant about talking to you about whatever ideas he may have. If he tells you that he wants to do something and it fails and you rub his nose in it, it hurts your relationship. It doesn’t mean that he will stop doing things that you might deem as risky. It just means that he won’t tell you about it. If he can’t talk to you and get your support, he’ll find a gal that “UNDERSTANDS HIM”. I know you’ve heard that before.

For Guys
If you have a wife or girl friend that is the least bit mechanically inclined, be a cluts around the lawn motor or putting in lights or fixing stuff around the house. Stand back and let her take over. She’ll end up changing the oil in your car before it’s over. Just don’t complasin and give her little bits of encouragement and praise. The gal will eat that shyt up just like a guy will.
The guy won’t do the finances as long as the wife does them. She has to teach him and stand back.Her one question should be, “Is it worth getting a divorce over?” If she starts nagging the sex life goes down hill. No man can accept nagging and perform well in bed. Just not going to happen. Try it with your guy. Go nag him and then say that you want to screw. So a smart woman, who wants good sex, will try to avoid situations where she will have to nag her guy. At least not untill the honey moon is over.

And you keep on talking about the wife being an equal partner. I’m not against that. Women and men are equal but in different ways. There are some things that women inherently do better then men. Women are better nurturers. They have the equipment to give birth and fed babies. Men are natural aggressors. You want to fight a war, send the men. If you’re looking for defense and protection, call a man. A woman does not handle the role of the traditional husband well. A man does not handle the role of the traditional wife well. Generally speaking, She’s better at her job then he is and he is better at his job then she is.


PRM
Again you fail to see the broadness of people. You don't need to coach your spouse on anything if they're natrually better at it then you. Like I said if your wife is a finacial WIZARD then you'll never be able to catch up to her knowledge just clutzing around with numbers, it just wont work out. She's been trained at a skill and if she's better at it then you there's no reason why she shouldn't handle that aspect of your lives reagardless if you think men should be the primary decison makers when it comes to money. Why would I ask my finacially brilliant wife to "stand back" if she's got a talent that would take me years upon years to learn? One of us is good at it, so my time would be better off learning something else that will do the both of us good. I definately don't see any grounds for divorce there, cause she's good at something and i'm working on being good at something else. It's called diversification of assets.
Yes women are better nurturers because they give birth, men are more agressive because men are territorial and thus fight more often then not. This doesn't mean they have to be limited or restricted to these rolls. There are single father house holds where men have to become the nurturers, and there are female soldiers who hang out on the strip and try to pick up (and pick fights with guys). Better does not mean interchangeable, either sex is capable at being very good at the roles that the other fills natrually. Just because one or the other is better at it doesn't mean that things are right.

PS I think you called me a girl by accident some where in your post. "Try it with your guy" I am a guy and I'm not really into that.

Brother Rapp
I was a baby, then a teenager, then a young man and now I’m an old man. I evolved, but I still basically have two arms. I still have two legs and so forth and so on. Cutting off an arm is changing the basics. Switching roles in a marriage is changing the basics.

PRM
*Sigh* do I really have to tell you why this is wrong? Come on cutting off an arm vs marriage? Marriage has evolved 10 folds over the course of the dawn of man. If we can move from having multiple wives to just one then you're not giving up so much in changing roles and positions in marriage over the course of a few years...Cutting of your arm give me a break.

Brother Rapp
You act as if no man has ever been abused by his wife. That goes on to. We men are often too embarrassed to admit that our wife may be physically abusing us. NoOOO it can’t happen to us guys. It’s just like racial bigotry. You hear a lot about it coming from whites, but it’s politically incorrect to talk about it coming from blacks or Latinos. That don’t mean that it doesn’t happen, only that it’s less publicized. Look at the press that grown women are just now getting for having sex with underage boys. Do you think that this stuff just sprang up all of a sudden?? So let’s both admit that there is physical abuse in some marriages, but more so towards women by men then men by women. Let’s get beyond that and argue why it happens at all.
PRM
I never said women haven't abused men and had it be a secret. But reagardless women are more often then not the ones being abused. This is even more true because, using your own argument, men have the power the majority of the time. When they see that power slipping away they become the agressor (again your words) and use violence. After all it's the mans role to be the head of the house hold and if the woman can't be reached by words then you'll have to use force. Why does it happen you ask? Because we live in a pretty ugly world where lots of ugly things happen even between people you know and trust. It is definately in human nature to be cruel, you've been around for quite some time now (twice as long as me) you should know that this world is definately not paradise.

Brother Rapp
No marriage is ever a guarantee. Marriage is based on trust and faith. You can throw love in there, if you like. Love comes after the first two are exchanged.

PRM
And if I can't trust in my wifes ability to spend money wisely and have faith that she'll come home to me everyday, there's no chance of love existing between us.
Brother Rapp
C. In both these cases, you gave a scenario. Basically, what you asked me was did these things happen. I have to say they did because you said so. There was no “If I do this WILL this happen?”
PRM
I didn't ask you if these things WILL happen because they both do happen. I just showed you how in either situation one being a thesis your traditional marriage that you talk about vs a non traditional marriage that is your antithesis and both have failing and sucessful outcomes. So you see you can't be right because in either situation the outcomes were both right and wrong depending on the turn of events in the trials we call life. Neither one of them presents a winning outcome, how your marriage shapes up depends on many factors not just the roles of the players involved. That's check and checkmate my friend.

 

[Wyldfire]

Originally posted by Brother_Rapp

I believe it was you who brought the demanding of the paycheck in. How about just giving him all your paycheck? Can you forsee a possible scenario relationship with a man by which you would just give him your paycheck and not worry about it? Other then hell freezing over?

How about we both use direct deposit of 75% of our paychecks into a checking account with both of our names on it and both of us write out the checks for the bills together? Then everyone feels like PARTNERS.

No, I can't EVER foresee a scenario where I would just give a guy my paycheck. Nor could I foresee a scenario where a guy would just give me HIS paycheck. No one should even ask or expect such a thing because it is INSULTING to the other person.

Oh...and I have a policy about letting a man do the grocery shopping...if he chooses the food for meal planning, he will be cooking it, too. I refuse to attempt to put meals together using groceries bought randomly. Meal planning requires buying certain ingredients for what you intend to cook. If I'm going to do the bulk of the cooking, then I am going to do the grocery shopping, period. Otherwise, the man can cook for himself because I won't be doing it.