I'm quitting squats.

[Flabbergasped?]

This is a long post. If you don't want to read my explanation for why I'm not going to do squats anymore, fast forward to the last section.

First, a little background:

My goals:

As some of you remember, I'm a breakdancer. After some analysis, I found out the most important muscles for bboying are back, shoulders, and abs. Therefore, I switched from Rippetoe's to target those areas better.

I also need to bang hotter chicks, and need to look better to that end. I have really long, skinny arms, sometimes uncomfortably skinny. People often think I'm a goof and am flailing my arms when I play sports, even though I'm totally in control; that's just because they're so skinny. Rippetoe's didn't help, all it did was help me put 20 lbs on my legs and make my upperbody strength-to-body weight ratio ****tier.

You may ask, since I certainly don't need the strength in the legs, what about the appearance? The only part of my lower body that needs work are my stick calves, but squats don't do anything there anyway!

This is my workout routine:

DAY 1(eg. Monday)
Squats 2 x 5
Squats or Leg Press 1 x 15 (lighter weight)
Good Mornings or Stiff Leg Deadlifts or Sumo Leg Press 2 x 10-15
Glute Ham Raise or Pullthroughs or Hyperextension 2 x 8
Calf Raises 2 x 10

DAY 2(eg. Wednesday)
Incline Press 2 x 5
Dumbbell Press (Flat/Decline) or Dips 2 x 8-10
Shoulder Press 2 x 8-12
Tricep Exercise 2 x 10-15

DAY 3(eg. Friday)
Deadlifts 2 x 5
Row or Chinup/Pulldown 2 x 8
Bicep Curl 2 x 8-10
Forearm Exercise 2 x 10-15

Lately, I've been slacking a letting myself recover a little too long, so I've been going to the gym about every 3 days.

My issues with squats:

1) They hurt. I actually dread squats whenever I go to the gym, and often put off going just because of the suffering squats cause me. It's actually one of my better exercises, I've maxed at about 1.5x my bodyweight, but it's a taxing exercise that just ****s up your back. Before you guys start nagging about my form, assure yourself that it is perfect (as per an experienced wrestling friend who can squat over 2.5x his body weight). Regardless of what you try to convince yourself, balancing a heavy load on your back will hit your spine, and during the course of the exercise, your lower back is hit hard too.

The last time I did squats, I did one set at 265 or 275, don't remember, and I couldn't do the second because it hurt just getting the bar off the rack. Again, my form is fine, and I could have powered through it, but I thought: "why rape my CNS for an exercise that is functionally useless to me?" Cutting squats out will get me in the gym more, since I don't dread getting my ass kicked again.

2) Legs are heavy.

I'm really looking for upper body and core strength. I could care less about how big or strong my legs are. As far as bboying goes, whatever raw leg strength you would need is covered by momentum in the advanced moves.

Unfortunately, big legs only slow you down and make it harder to be upside down. Granted, you can argue that good technique would overcome the added difficulty of the movements brought on by massive legs, but why make it harder on yourself?

Closing thoughts

1) I should have dropped squats a long time ago. Even though I have grown from them, the growth has more or less been useless, and the time I spent in recovery could have been put to something else (like more breakdancing practice). The only reason I kept squatting is because lifters here insisted that "all programs should be done as listed, don't change them, blah blah." That's a great way of thinking, if your lifting for general strength (which is what most skinny World of Warcraft nerds need). However, it doesn't make sense for a breakdancer to get his legs bigs.

2) I can't wait for some meathead to criticize my "attitude." There will be a deluge of posts that are like, "if you can't do squats, then your attitude needs work, not your *insert pithy analogy here*." That's batsh!t. I've been squatting more than long enough (almost a year) to know the benefits of the exercise. However, if the only reason I should keep squatting is so I can tell my friends that I squat big numbers, even though I don't need to squat big numbers for bboying or for chicks, I'm wasting my time and energy.

3) Note that I'm not dropping legs all together (so don't give me that "omg you're going to look wierd with big arms and small legs.) I'm simply doing doing squats (at least not low volume, heavy weight squats, which are useless in my opinion).

Questions for you:

1) Are there any dangers to not squatting, but doing opposing motions like the deadlift?

2) What are good replacement exercises? I'm guessing leg press + some sort of glute work?

Edit: I will probably be cutting out only the heavy squatting sets (the 2x5). I think the 1x15 set is challenging but fun. The other one is just torture. I don't feel torture in any other lift.

 

[kickureface]

nothing replaces squats

to be honest, if they hurt at all you are doing them wrong. you may think it's right, but chances are it's wrong. it happened to me

squats don't get you big unless you eat like a fatass. and i doubt you do if you're a bboy

 

[Flabbergasped?]

I eat 3k to 3.5k calories a day. This is sirius bizness

 

[Kerpal]

I think you're making a big mistake.

Squats are one of the most functional exercises you can do for any physical activity or sport, except maybe wheelchair basketball. I don't know much about breakdancing but I think it's safe to assume that leg power is important. I know breakdancers jump, and squatting is one of the best exercises you can do to improve your vertical leap.

If you think squats will make you slow, look at weightlifters. Some of them squat 6 DAYS A WEEK and they are the most explosive athletes of all. Putting 300+ lbs on your back and squatting it will make your core very strong. Squats will also work your calves hard, and they are supposed to hit your back, they are a full body exercise. But if you're experiencing actual pain, something is either wrong with your form or you have an injury.

Just because your friend says he squats 2.5 bodyweight doesn't mean he knows what he's talking about. A lot of people say they can "squat" very heavy weights, and when you see them in the gym they're really doing 1/16 squats or just outright lying. There is a guy at my gym who will throw 500 lbs on the bar and do 1/16 squats, barely bending his knees, and tell everyone he "squats" 500 lbs, but if he actually did full squats he probably couldn't do 150 lbs.

Cutting out squats is a big decision so if I was you, before I decided either way I would take a video of myself squatting and post it here : http://strengthmill.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=36&order=desc for review just to make sure everything's OK. See what Rippetoe says about your form and go from there.

 

[The Bat]

I think you just need a different routine that focuses very heavily on upper body compounds than lower body compounds.

I can sympathize with you about skinny arms. I have a large wingspan too and no fat with little muscle doesn't make it very impressive.

The good news is that with the right routine, you can turn those into....ugh, hate to use this cliched term.....massive guns. Eliminating squats won't help your progress towards upper body strength because you need a strong core development too.

Just take a break from working out. Sometimes painful torture week after week can take tolls mentally.

 

[kickureface]

how much do you weigh?
i eat 3k-4k calories with 50% fat 30 protein 20 carbs and i have maintained weight at ~170

 

[DevanE]

Is THIS* the type of strength your talking about...?

 

[cuzza]

Good for you.

I've recently decided against squats.

 

[Smack]

This is a long post. If you don't want to read my explanation for why I'm not going to do squats anymore, fast forward to the last section.

First, a little background:

My goals:

As some of you remember, I'm a breakdancer. After some analysis, I found out the most important muscles for bboying are back, shoulders, and abs. Therefore, I switched from Rippetoe's to target those areas better.

I also need to bang hotter chicks, and need to look better to that end. I have really long, skinny arms, sometimes uncomfortably skinny. People often think I'm a goof and am flailing my arms when I play sports, even though I'm totally in control; that's just because they're so skinny. Rippetoe's didn't help, all it did was help me put 20 lbs on my legs and make my upperbody strength-to-body weight ratio ****tier.

You may ask, since I certainly don't need the strength in the legs, what about the appearance? The only part of my lower body that needs work are my stick calves, but squats don't do anything there anyway!

This is my workout routine:

DAY 1(eg. Monday)
Squats 2 x 5
Squats or Leg Press 1 x 15 (lighter weight)
Good Mornings or Stiff Leg Deadlifts or Sumo Leg Press 2 x 10-15
Glute Ham Raise or Pullthroughs or Hyperextension 2 x 8
Calf Raises 2 x 10

DAY 2(eg. Wednesday)
Incline Press 2 x 5
Dumbbell Press (Flat/Decline) or Dips 2 x 8-10
Shoulder Press 2 x 8-12
Tricep Exercise 2 x 10-15

DAY 3(eg. Friday)
Deadlifts 2 x 5
Row or Chinup/Pulldown 2 x 8
Bicep Curl 2 x 8-10
Forearm Exercise 2 x 10-15

Lately, I've been slacking a letting myself recover a little too long, so I've been going to the gym about every 3 days.

My issues with squats:

1) They hurt. I actually dread squats whenever I go to the gym, and often put off going just because of the suffering squats cause me. It's actually one of my better exercises, I've maxed at about 1.5x my bodyweight, but it's a taxing exercise that just ****s up your back. Before you guys start nagging about my form, assure yourself that it is perfect (as per an experienced wrestling friend who can squat over 2.5x his body weight). Regardless of what you try to convince yourself, balancing a heavy load on your back will hit your spine, and during the course of the exercise, your lower back is hit hard too.

The last time I did squats, I did one set at 265 or 275, don't remember, and I couldn't do the second because it hurt just getting the bar off the rack. Again, my form is fine, and I could have powered through it, but I thought: "why rape my CNS for an exercise that is functionally useless to me?" Cutting squats out will get me in the gym more, since I don't dread getting my ass kicked again.

2) Legs are heavy.

I'm really looking for upper body and core strength. I could care less about how big or strong my legs are. As far as bboying goes, whatever raw leg strength you would need is covered by momentum in the advanced moves.

Unfortunately, big legs only slow you down and make it harder to be upside down. Granted, you can argue that good technique would overcome the added difficulty of the movements brought on by massive legs, but why make it harder on yourself?

Closing thoughts

1) I should have dropped squats a long time ago. Even though I have grown from them, the growth has more or less been useless, and the time I spent in recovery could have been put to something else (like more breakdancing practice). The only reason I kept squatting is because lifters here insisted that "all programs should be done as listed, don't change them, blah blah." That's a great way of thinking, if your lifting for general strength (which is what most skinny World of Warcraft nerds need). However, it doesn't make sense for a breakdancer to get his legs bigs.

2) I can't wait for some meathead to criticize my "attitude." There will be a deluge of posts that are like, "if you can't do squats, then your attitude needs work, not your *insert pithy analogy here*." That's batsh!t. I've been squatting more than long enough (almost a year) to know the benefits of the exercise. However, if the only reason I should keep squatting is so I can tell my friends that I squat big numbers, even though I don't need to squat big numbers for bboying or for chicks, I'm wasting my time and energy.

3) Note that I'm not dropping legs all together (so don't give me that "omg you're going to look wierd with big arms and small legs.) I'm simply doing doing squats (at least not low volume, heavy weight squats, which are useless in my opinion).

Questions for you:

1) Are there any dangers to not squatting, but doing opposing motions like the deadlift?

2) What are good replacement exercises? I'm guessing leg press + some sort of glute work?

Edit: I will probably be cutting out only the heavy squatting sets (the 2x5). I think the 1x15 set is challenging but fun. The other one is just torture. I don't feel torture in any other lift.

We get a lot of threads like this over at bodybuilding.com. Basically, the advice given is to man and and just ****ing get on with it!

 

[MrS]

Read: "I'm a big girl".

 

[mrRuckus]

Before you guys start nagging about my form,


strength you would need is covered by momentum in the advanced moves.



The only reason I kept squatting is because lifters here insisted that "all programs should be done as listed, don't change them, blah blah." That's a great way of thinking, if your lifting for general strength (which is what most skinny World of Warcraft nerds need).

2) I can't wait for some meathead to criticize my "attitude." There will be a deluge of posts that are like, "if you can't do squats, then your attitude needs work, not your *insert pithy analogy here*."

Everyone who helps this guy is a tool after he spent the post basically insulting us all.

strength you would need is covered by momentum in the advanced moves.

What is generating this momentum?

 

[Zairi]

OP, deadlifts are also very taxing on the CNS, probably even moreso than squats. I think you should do 2 sets of 10 repetitions for an excercise which targets the legs at 60-75% of your maximum lifting capacity. That is of course if your aim is to gain muscle instead of gaining strenght while limiting muscle gain. If you are lifting at 60-75% of your maximum rep, then the CNS stress will be much lower.

If you aim for upper body strenght, then the bench press is a must. Do two sets of five.

 

[blackbelt2k]

DAY 1(eg. Monday)
Squats 2 x 5
Squats or Leg Press 1 x 15 (lighter weight)
Good Mornings or Stiff Leg Deadlifts or Sumo Leg Press 2 x 10-15
Glute Ham Raise or Pullthroughs or Hyperextension 2 x 8
Calf Raises 2 x 10

DAY 2(eg. Wednesday)
Incline Press 2 x 5
Dumbbell Press (Flat/Decline) or Dips 2 x 8-10
Shoulder Press 2 x 8-12
Tricep Exercise 2 x 10-15

DAY 3(eg. Friday)
Deadlifts 2 x 5
Row or Chinup/Pulldown 2 x 8
Bicep Curl 2 x 8-10
Forearm Exercise 2 x 10-15

I think your routine is a mess, honestly. I used to be the same way, then some of the guys here threw a book at my head, Starting Strenght. Your workouts seemed geared more toward hyperthrophy, ie. big muscles, and not strength. I would advocate a full body routine 3 days a week to get your functional strength up. You say you have maxed out at 265 lb on your squat... I find that hard to believe if you only do 2 sets. I, personally have reached a maximal at 280 for 5x5... and i know its my max, because my legs shake after the first rep.
If you TRULY feel your maxed out, try the texas method. I'm rearranging my program.
Also back to your routine, since your doing 1 body part per day, you don't give your body time to recover between sets.. after heavy squats, do a compound upper body so that your lower body gets some rest.

 

[ProDJ26]

This is a long post. If you don't want to read my explanation for why I'm not going to do squats anymore, fast forward to the last section.

First, a little background:

My goals:

As some of you remember, I'm a breakdancer. After some analysis, I found out the most important muscles for bboying are back, shoulders, and abs. Therefore, I switched from Rippetoe's to target those areas better.

I hear ya, personally I think Option B is a joke. I've gotten WAAY more results from option A. Switch to this : http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=712752

I also need to bang hotter chicks, and need to look better to that end. I have really long, skinny arms, sometimes uncomfortably skinny. People often think I'm a goof and am flailing my arms when I play sports, even though I'm totally in control; that's just because they're so skinny. Rippetoe's didn't help, all it did was help me put 20 lbs on my legs and make my upperbody strength-to-body weight ratio ****tier.

There's something your doing wrong, Rippetoe works only if you EAT, LIFT, EAT, SLEEP, EAT & apply

You may ask, since I certainly don't need the strength in the legs, what about the appearance? The only part of my lower body that needs work are my stick calves, but squats don't do anything there anyway!

EVERYBODY NEEDS CALF WORK, SQUATS WORK THE ENTIRE BODY

This is my workout routine:

DAY 1(eg. Monday)
Squats 2 x 5
Squats or Leg Press 1 x 15 (lighter weight)
Good Mornings or Stiff Leg Deadlifts or Sumo Leg Press 2 x 10-15
Glute Ham Raise or Pullthroughs or Hyperextension 2 x 8
Calf Raises 2 x 10

DAY 2(eg. Wednesday)
Incline Press 2 x 5
Dumbbell Press (Flat/Decline) or Dips 2 x 8-10
Shoulder Press 2 x 8-12
Tricep Exercise 2 x 10-15

DAY 3(eg. Friday)
Deadlifts 2 x 5
Row or Chinup/Pulldown 2 x 8
Bicep Curl 2 x 8-10
Forearm Exercise 2 x 10-15

AGAIN SWITCH TO OPTION A

Lately, I've been slacking a letting myself recover a little too long, so I've been going to the gym about every 3 days.

Your fine here 3 days is enough

My issues with squats:

1) They hurt. I actually dread squats whenever I go to the gym, and often put off going just because of the suffering squats cause me. It's actually one of my better exercises, I've maxed at about 1.5x my bodyweight, but it's a taxing exercise that just ****s up your back. Before you guys start nagging about my form, assure yourself that it is perfect (as per an experienced wrestling friend who can squat over 2.5x his body weight). Regardless of what you try to convince yourself, balancing a heavy load on your back will hit your spine, and during the course of the exercise, your lower back is hit hard too.

Upload videos or post on ripptoes website. Your probably doing them wrong

The last time I did squats, I did one set at 265 or 275, don't remember, and I couldn't do the second because it hurt just getting the bar off the rack. Again, my form is fine, and I could have powered through it, but I thought: "why rape my CNS for an exercise that is functionally useless to me?" Cutting squats out will get me in the gym more, since I don't dread getting my ass kicked again.

A second thought is that it'a all in your head. I personally hate Deadlifts but everytimte I do them I look at the bar and tell it "fvck you deadlifts" makes things more easier. In the end you just gotta suck it up and do the squats. I know you can so don't let the squats sike you out

2) Legs are heavy.

I'm really looking for upper body and core strength. I could care less about how big or strong my legs are. As far as bboying goes, whatever raw leg strength you would need is covered by momentum in the advanced moves.

Unfortunately, big legs only slow you down and make it harder to be upside down. Granted, you can argue that good technique would overcome the added difficulty of the movements brought on by massive legs, but why make it harder on yourself?

I beg to differ

Closing thoughts

1) I should have dropped squats a long time ago. Even though I have grown from them, the growth has more or less been useless, and the time I spent in recovery could have been put to something else (like more breakdancing practice). The only reason I kept squatting is because lifters here insisted that "all programs should be done as listed, don't change them, blah blah." That's a great way of thinking, if your lifting for general strength (which is what most skinny World of Warcraft nerds need). However, it doesn't make sense for a breakdancer to get his legs bigs.

The program your doing is designed to do that. Switch to option A for OVERALL growth

2) I can't wait for some meathead to criticize my "attitude." There will be a deluge of posts that are like, "if you can't do squats, then your attitude needs work, not your *insert pithy analogy here*." That's batsh!t. I've been squatting more than long enough (almost a year) to know the benefits of the exercise. However, if the only reason I should keep squatting is so I can tell my friends that I squat big numbers, even though I don't need to squat big numbers for bboying or for chicks, I'm wasting my time and energy.

3) Note that I'm not dropping legs all together (so don't give me that "omg you're going to look wierd with big arms and small legs.) I'm simply doing doing squats (at least not low volume, heavy weight squats, which are useless in my opinion).

Questions for you:

1) Are there any dangers to not squatting, but doing opposing motions like the deadlift?

If you don't like squatting than your not ready for Deads

2) What are good replacement exercises? I'm guessing leg press + some sort of glute work?

ONLY DEADLIFTS

Edit: I will probably be cutting out only the heavy squatting sets (the 2x5). I think the 1x15 set is challenging but fun. The other one is just torture. I don't feel torture in any other lift.

Responses in bold

 

[Flabbergasped?]

Is THIS* the type of strength your talking about...?

That guy, bboy junior, has muscular dystrophy in his legs from a childhood disease (polio maybe?). His legs literally don't weigh anything, meaning he has trouble walking. Also means he can do crazy stuff like that.

What is generating this momentum?

Your hips.

To some general comments:

-I did starting strength for 6 months. I got results in ALL THE WRONG PLACES. Starting strength did was it advertised: gave a nice foundation for overall strength. Too bad I don't need overall strength (which, with 3x squat per week, is really lower body strength). Functionally, I need upper body, so it doesn't make sense to kill myself at squats because I should "man up."

-I haven't totally cut out squats, I still do the 1x15 set. I think that still works my hips and core, especially at the top of the exercise, without hurting my back or psyching me out.

-The issue isn't whether I can do squats or not. The issue is, if they irk me so much, why put up with it? I don't have anything to prove to myself, so what's the point of more pain + more recovery + less time bboying + bad work ethic because I'm afraid of squatting, just so I don't get "I'm a big girl" from someone here?

-I've maxed deadlift in the 300 lbs range, it's my best lift. I'm looking for 2x bodyweight.

 

[insidious]

That guy, bboy junior, has muscular dystrophy in his legs from a childhood disease (polio maybe?). His legs literally don't weigh anything, meaning he has trouble walking. Also means he can do crazy stuff like that.

Just because he doesn't have the ability to move his legs doesn't mean they don't weigh anything. The only way you can honestly say someone's legs don't weigh anything is if they don't have any!

But I get your point. Look, you're striving for upper body strength and nimbleness and balance, and if you don't feel you can justify squats for your short and long term physical goals, don't do them. Simple as that. Why do you care what we think? Personally, I "enjoy" squats and I feel they've helped me tremendously with my personal goals. Everyone's goals are different. Point is, don't judge me for embracing squats, and I won't judge you for hating them and having no place for them in your life. Breakdancing requires an amazing skillset which I could never even approach. I marvel at those moves.

 

[bigshot]

http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=1692967

Read Number 6!

 

[[S]alvatore]

Dumbbell squats, same movement, less pressure on your back. Basically hold the dummbbells to the side.

 

[bud_2005]

Why did you write this long explanation telling us why you are quitting squats and have a lot of people reply but then later on you say "oh by the way, I didn't REALLY quit squats, I still do squats buts its a 1x15". Either you quit or didn't make up your mind.

 

[Flabbergasped?]

I wrote in that edit before the first response was posted. I guess people just ignored the post because it was too long and responded to the title with stuff like "DO THE DEADLIFT" even though there is 2 types of deadlift in my routine.

I really wanted to know if there were good replacement exercises. Since deadlifts are apparently a good one, I will do more of that. I'm still doing 1x15 to target my hips and glutes at the top.