Illuminati...your thoughts?

[Plinco]

...your b.s. theories which still make no sense

It makes good sense once you know more about it. These "illuminati" are made of real people making policies that effect governments and corporations.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Laz3eni6Iq4

 

[6-heads lewis]

there's not much point in responding to teagan, it's just baiting a troll. He's clearly not up for discussion.

 

[Plinco]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGdbHW9Nlds&feature=related

 

[Rogue]

Gee, way to stay away from blanket replies

How about addressing modern pop music symbolism? And the insiders who speak out about it? Never mind, it's all just in their heads, one giant coincidence.

There's little point in discussing this with you.

Conspiracy theories such the Illuminati violate the doctrine of falsifiability. If a proposition is true then there must be conditions under which it can be invalidated, but no amount of disconfirmatory evidence in principle can falsify your premise. The claim about the occult doctrine in music, culture, architecture, is an ad hoc hypothesis to ensure non-falsifiability. Thus, Occam's Razor can be applied.

 

[teagan]

Calling me a retard...that's good discussion haha. I asked a question and you responded with that. Very nice, really gets your point across. Now, can you actually prove what you are saying in terms of the occult? You still have not and you're just getting angry which is not helping your argument.

 

[Aenigma]

Conspiracy theories such the Illuminati violate the doctrine of falsifiability. If a proposition is true then there must be conditions under which it can be invalidated, but no amount of disconfirmatory evidence in principle can falsify your premise. The claim about the occult doctrine in music, culture, architecture, is an ad hoc hypothesis to ensure non-falsifiability. Thus, Occam's Razor can be applied.

Secret Soceities and Blacks-ops intelliegence operations are groups that are composed of conscious entities capable of hiding genuine evidence and manufactoring disconfirmatory evidence. It's activity called DECEPTION.

Occam's Razor is a useful tool, it isn't a universal law.

 

[Rogue]

Secret Soceities and Blacks-ops intelliegence operations are groups that are composed of conscious entities capable of hiding genuine evidence and manufactoring disconfirmatory evidence. It's activity called DECEPTION.

Occam's Razor is a useful tool, it isn't a universal law.

Secrecry and deception are not impervious. Terrorist organizations, organized crime sindicates, and clandestine intelligence operations are within the realm of verification through informants, moles, and technological measures. The Illuminati has nothing of convincing substance. Thus, Occam's Razor does have sound applicability.

 

[Plinco]

Secrecry and deception are not impervious. Terrorist organizations, organized crime sindicates, and clandestine intelligence operations are within the realm of verification through informants, moles, and technological measures. The Illuminati has nothing of convincing substance. Thus, Occam's Razor does have sound applicability.

The so called "illuminati" are in the realm of verification through informants, moles, and declassified information. I don't think you are paying attention to what we have said in this thread, and thus, I now hereby refuse to argue (as tempting as it might be) about this any further.

 

[Alle_Gory]

The so called "illuminati" are in the realm of verification through informants, moles, and declassified information. I don't think you are paying attention to what we have said in this thread, and thus, I now hereby refuse to argue (as tempting as it might be) about this any further.

OK. Maybe you can dig up some documents then? Some testimony of former members, or even articles or stories written by said former members... etc.

A music video with Lady Gaga doesn't count. Hell, she didn't even make the damn video. There's producers for that kind of sh*t.

 

[Alle_Gory]

Yes, I am well aware of all of that. It is now 100% guaranteed that we will have a major worldwide economic depression, and quite possibly WW IV on our hands from all of the ticking time bombs these people have set. In the end, I do not believe that these people will have their world government; they have screwed themselves (and us too) too much already.

There are a few examples that I can list, but for starters, I would like to make a point out of the e-mail climate gate situation, which was a big blow to them.

For the record, I stand opposed to the central banking cartel (as Edward Griffin calls it), and yes, a lot of people will end up dead because of them.

*cough* Skull and Bones Society *cough*

Here you go. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skull_and_Bones

Current Members: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Skull_and_Bones_members#1970s_to_present

Notice George W Bush, the moron president, and John Kerry were members. I think this is as close as you're going to get to your mythical Illuminati.

 

[Quiksilver]

I think those of you who support this notion should stop using the term Illuminati.

That's just a blanket word for: powerful individuals/groups/societies(combination of corporate and government interests) around the world who come together privately and secretly to discuss affairs and work towards shaping the world in their image, generally to victimize the middle and lower class while transferring power to a wealthy elite.

Using the terms Satanic/Occult/Illuminati/Skull & Bones instantly discredit your point of view because they are opinionated words and don't express factual or useful information.

-----

Instead it would be smart to approach the situation in a more pragmatic way:

1. Tell us WHO is involved. Give us names, background, faces.

2. Tell us WHAT they are doing. Motives, goals, objectives.

3. Tell us HOW they are doing 'it'. Use concrete evidence(what they say, white papers, informants, whistleblowers, 3rd party investigators), anything else only discredits what you say and devalues your position. Don't say anything that can be easily debunked.

4. Tell us WHY. Why are these people doing what they are doing? Give reasons, legitimate explanations, reference historical parallels.

5. Tell us HOW IT AFFECTS US. Bring it down to reality, in to our world, give us "the average man" a reason to care.

6. Tell us WHAT WE CAN DO ABOUT IT. Give a plan of action, some little steps that each citizen can take to oppose 'whatever it is' you are talking about.

-----

Until you can do that, the people around the world who relish the opportunity to 'Debunk' theories will keep doing what they are doing. For the record, most 'Debunkers' already have a preconceived ideology and they are merely using selective facts to reinforce their frame of mind and beliefs.

That works both ways though.

To convince me, "the common man", that what you are saying is believable beyond reasonable doubt, you must fulfill all 76 steps above in order to achieve the desired result. Until then, all you're doing is, as above, reinforcing your view of the world through selective reasoning, and that my friends is called Intellectual Entertainment.

So ... As the plaintiff in the case towards believing that secret elitist groups have it in for me and I have to act to prevent it, the burden of proof is on YOU.

-----

Remember, the idea is to prove to The Common Man that you are right beyond reasonable doubt, and that requires thorough research and examination for all points of view.

 

[f283000]

36 Pop Music Artists Exposed - Illuminati Satanic Industry
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5xAclfgQDw

That's a lot of artists and a lot of symbols...

I hope they all get what is coming to them and soon.

 

[rakishness]

JFK knew....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gpmi7dBet0c

 

[Colossus]

I think those of you who support this notion should stop using the term Illuminati.

That's just a blanket word for: powerful individuals/groups/societies(combination of corporate and government interests) around the world who come together privately and secretly to discuss affairs and work towards shaping the world in their image, generally to victimize the middle and lower class while transferring power to a wealthy elite.

Using the terms Satanic/Occult/Illuminati/Skull & Bones instantly discredit your point of view because they are opinionated words and don't express factual or useful information.

-----

Instead it would be smart to approach the situation in a more pragmatic way:

1. Tell us WHO is involved. Give us names, background, faces.

2. Tell us WHAT they are doing. Motives, goals, objectives.

3. Tell us HOW they are doing 'it'. Use concrete evidence(what they say, white papers, informants, whistleblowers, 3rd party investigators), anything else only discredits what you say and devalues your position. Don't say anything that can be easily debunked.

4. Tell us WHY. Why are these people doing what they are doing? Give reasons, legitimate explanations, reference historical parallels.

5. Tell us HOW IT AFFECTS US. Bring it down to reality, in to our world, give us "the average man" a reason to care.

6. Tell us WHAT WE CAN DO ABOUT IT. Give a plan of action, some little steps that each citizen can take to oppose 'whatever it is' you are talking about.

-----

Until you can do that, the people around the world who relish the opportunity to 'Debunk' theories will keep doing what they are doing. For the record, most 'Debunkers' already have a preconceived ideology and they are merely using selective facts to reinforce their frame of mind and beliefs.

That works both ways though.

To convince me, "the common man", that what you are saying is believable beyond reasonable doubt, you must fulfill all 76 steps above in order to achieve the desired result. Until then, all you're doing is, as above, reinforcing your view of the world through selective reasoning, and that my friends is called Intellectual Entertainment.

So ... As the plaintiff in the case towards believing that secret elitist groups have it in for me and I have to act to prevent it, the burden of proof is on YOU.

-----

Remember, the idea is to prove to The Common Man that you are right beyond reasonable doubt, and that requires thorough research and examination for all points of view.

Outstanding post.

In reference to the bold, "debunking" can be very much akin to conspiracy mongering. You start with a preconceived, subjective opinion, then set about cherry-picking what 'facts' you can to prove your point.

And in regards to the secret elite, I'll restate my position more simply:

Responsible skeptics arent out to prove these groups DONT exist. Neither science nor logic can prove a negative. What we are out to do is establish confirmation OF their existence, and perhaps more importantly elucidate some verifiable record of their alleged evil activities.

Like Quiksilver said, and I said earlier in the thread, someone making extraordinary claims better come up with some extraordinary confirmation. The burden of proof is on YOU, the proprietor of the secret society/evil agenda theories, not US, the objective critics.

We arent claiming 'secret' groups dont exist; in fact, we are aware of several, such as the Bohemian Club and the Skull and Bones....which in effect are no longer "secret". However, their motives and undertakings are really only products of speculation--usually wild speculation based on someone else's unfounded or imagined speculations. To prove your claims, you are going to have to put together a case based on the 6 steps above; and yeah, that's time-consuming. But until then, running around claiming the sky is falling, WWIII is imminent, and the elites are out to destroy the everyman, is only discrediting your case and making you look like a, well...conspiracy theorist, rather than a rational investigator.

 

[Alle_Gory]

36 Pop Music Artists Exposed - Illuminati Satanic Industry
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5xAclfgQDw

That's a lot of artists and a lot of symbols...

I hope they all get what is coming to them and soon.

1. Artists don't make their own music videos, they don't even make their own music in alot of cases. They're posers and products of their agents and the recording companies.

2. Do you even know what these symbols are? I doubt the people producing the videos know either. They probably think they look cool... like hand gestures. You know, when I was in high school and elementary school the kids used to do all kinds of gang symbols. Does that mean they're in a gang? No? Yeah, that's what I thought. People do alot of things without realizing their meanings... if they really do have any.

I think I'm giving you too much credit though. I've got gerbils that are smarter than you. At least they have the capacity of independent thought. You reject the mainstream only to go for some pre-packaged conspiracy theories. Way to think for yourself.

Gerbils 1, You 0.

 

[Rogue]

But shhh.... we must be the enemy.

In the worldview of conspiracy theories, there are only truthers, sheep, and agents. There are no smart people who know better than to believe.

 

[Guoy Darko]

Pretty funny to see Lady Gaga in a different perspective. She makes a reference to Stanley Kubrick in her song Dance in the dark:

Work your blonde (Jean) Benet Ramsey
We’ll haunt like liberace
Find your freedom in the music
Find your Jesus
Find your Kubrick
You will never fall apart
Diana, you’re still in our hearts
Never let you fall apart
Together we’ll dance in the dark

Stanley Kubrick made (as far as I know) two movies about these supposed Illuminati: A Clockwork Orange and Eyes Wide Shut.

Maybe she just likes to mind**** people and is she herself obsessed with Illuminati.

 

[Plinco]

JFK knew....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gpmi7dBet0c

I like that speech. The "monolithic conspiracy" he talks about are the communists.

 

[Chrom3y]

Wow wtf...now I'm worried.

 

[rakishness]

"Secret Societies"= Illuminati

Google Executive Order 11110