If you could have ONE superpower...

[Da Realist]

I've highlighted the part I believe to be incorrect. My understanding is that the cat (in the classic example) exists in an indeterminate state until it is observed, at which point the waveform collapses and the cat is either alive or not so much.

Where did I make make a mistake? There were possible two outcomes. The cat died in your observation, but lives in another universe where it is possible. This forms the idea of why classical physics can go only so far since it only takes into account what usually happens instead of what's set.

The question I would ask you though is that if you know there are two outcomes, what happens to the other? Keep in mind if it just fades away, that would have to mean nothing happens, which doesn't occur even when matter and antimatter come in contact since energy is produced. Also, that means where ever you're at is the only world that exists, and if you can manipulate it to the point where you can decide what does and doesn't happen, what are you really doing?

 

[bigjohnson]

Where did I make make a mistake? There were possible two outcomes. The cat died in your observation, but lives in another universe where it is possible.

What other Universe? This is the problem, just because the cat was in an indeterminate state does not mean it was in multiple Universes or whatever, it was (and I know this is hard to understand) really in an indeterminate state. It wasn't dead here and live somewhere else, or live here and dead in an alternate place.

It was in an undetermined state and observation caused the probability to coalesce.

People try to wriggle around and insist that it 'must have been' alive or dead *before* it was observed, but that's not the case and until that is clear it's impossible to go further.

 

[Da Realist]

What other Universe? This is the problem, just because the cat was in an indeterminate state does not mean it was in multiple Universes or whatever, it was (and I know this is hard to understand) really in an indeterminate state. It wasn't dead here and live somewhere else, or live here and dead in an alternate place.

It was in an undetermined state and observation caused the probability to coalesce.

People try to wriggle around and insist that it 'must have been' alive or dead *before* it was observed, but that's not the case and until that is clear it's impossible to go further.

So your basic premise is that there is no other universe?

 

[bigjohnson]

Where did I make make a mistake? There were possible two outcomes.

This is one of the issues with the "Multiple Worlds" view. While it works math-wise (so far) the concept of splitting off a new reality every instant based on whether something like an atom emitted or not emitted a subatomic particle, per possible even, every instant, is pretty daunting.

In short, the cat is grossly simplified, in fact there are countless, literally, possible future states and to assume they all exist is pretty wild imagining.

So your basic premise is that there is no other universe?

Mathematically speaking it works to do things like treating time as a dimension or some of the quantum mechanics math as if there are "Multiple Worlds", but very few physicists actually believe those mathematical constructs are real in the sense our world is real.

The MW people have a lot of issues. For instance, a scientific theory should be falsifiable. In order to falsify MW, one has to falsify QM. QM exists quite nicely without MW, and certainly without assuming the 'Worlds' in the MW math are real.

Most importantly for this discussion (to wander back on topic) the theory of multiple worlds is moot. It's by definition impossible for any sort of information to leak 'between' so whether the person who sees the future is seeing the potential states of the collapsed wavefunction or seeing the various possible future worlds, he is essentially limited to the one state or one world he chooses to interact with.

He cannot interact with more than one "ex-post-facto" by definition.

 

[Da Realist]

Mathematically speaking it works to do things like treating time as a dimension or some of the quantum mechanics math as if there are "Multiple Worlds", but very few physicists actually believe those mathematical constructs are real in the sense our world is real.

The MW people have a lot of issues. For instance, a scientific theory should be falsifiable. In order to falsify MW, one has to falsify QM. QM exists quite nicely without MW, and certainly without assuming the 'Worlds' in the MW math are real.

Most importantly for this discussion (to wander back on topic) the theory of multiple worlds is moot. It's by definition impossible for any sort of information to leak 'between' so whether the person who sees the future is seeing the potential states of the collapsed wavefunction or seeing the various possible future worlds, he is essentially limited to the one state or one world he chooses to interact with.

He cannot interact with more than one "ex-post-facto" by definition.

If it all a matter of perceiving things outside of time, then how does that mean a person could change what will happen? Even without the MW theory, you have to take into account the fact that it is impossible to know all the parts of a system that produces that outcome. You may know what happens, but you don't how exactly. In fact, if there is only one possible outcome since there is only one world according to you, whatever you do or will do is a factor in it happening. So it stands to reason if you saw it happen, you couldn't stop it or in fact may have caused it.

 

[bigjohnson]

If it all a matter of perceiving things outside of time, then how does that mean a person could change what will happen? Even without the MW theory, you have to take into account the fact that it is impossible to know all the parts of a system that produces that outcome. You may know what happens, but you don't how exactly. In fact, if there is only one possible outcome since there is only one world according to you, whatever you do or will do is a factor in it happening. So it stands to reason if you saw it happen, you couldn't stop it or in fact may have caused it.

There will have been, after the fact, one outcome. I don't need to see the future to know that if I want coffee tomorrow, I'll have to boil water and make coffee. I don't need super powers to know that, and I can still DECIDE which way it's gonna go right up until it's done. Now after I've had coffee, it's gonna be too late to not have coffee.

Better "vision" into the way things will go doesn't change that except in degree.

 

[theunflushables]

Wow, seriously deep stuff. What about the Doctor Who take on time:

“People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect… but actually, from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint, it’s more like a big ball of wibbly-wobbly…. timey-wimey…. stuff.”

Could that hold any basis in physics?

As far as Schrodinger's cat, I too understood it as bigjohnson does.

 

[bigjohnson]

Wow, seriously deep stuff.

You have to have guys together to have this sort of discussion, women would have resorted to reporting each other to the mods and calling names by now, but we're just chillin' and having a good time talking about deep stuff.

It's good to be a fella. :beer:

 

[Da Realist]

You have to have guys together to have this sort of discussion, women would have resorted to reporting each other to the mods and calling names by now, but we're just chillin' and having a good time talking about deep stuff.

It's good to be a fella. :beer:

True. Usually don't talk to people about stuff like this.

But back to the topic at hand. Making coffee at home is pretty simple and it really wouldn't matter when or why it took place because it's just a cup of coffee.

Now suppose while you were drinking that cup of Joe you got a vision of a bomb set to go off in a warehouse. From the vision all you see is that there is a light is on and a bomb sitting on a table. If you want to do anything, you have to answer some questions.

Which warehouse? If there is only one in your town, that's great, but is it always going to be in your town to begin with?

What time is the event unfolding? Is the bomb going off today? Tomorrow? Next week? Three Years? The question is how can you tell from one vision?

What leads up to the bomb blowing up? If it on a timer or is it tripped by something else like someone walking in the door? Even then, how do you disarm it?

Do you even want to stop it? Sure blowing things up is illegal, but that bomb could kill the guy who kills you later on.

Is it the only bomb? If some guys goes to the trouble of planning something like this, who's to say it stops there? You only saw one in what may be a series. Even then, is it a decoy?

I think the biggest questions though are if you're meant to stop it or if you even can? Just because you get to view something happening doesn't equate to you having the ability or responsibility to change it.

 

[bigjohnson]

TI think the biggest questions though are if you're meant to stop it or if you even can? Just because you get to view something happening doesn't equate to you having the ability or responsibility to change it.

Meant to is sort of a nonstarter, but able to is certainly valid. I'm ABLE to make coffee. I'm not able to do some other things. Compare it to a game of chess - how much easier would be if you could see what your opponents response to each of your available moves would be? And then, given that response, what your options would be, and what their reply to THOSE moves would be.

You could prune and remove a lot of "dead branches" from your decision tree.

 

[BlakeW5]

Out of the list I'd have to do with teleportation. I'd save so much time, not to mention I would constantly travel to exciting places every weekend to party.

If I got to choose my own I'd go for immortality (not sure it's a superpower) or "the ability to have all powers" hehe

 

[Semtex]

Telepathy.

You'd always know what people want or think. You'd be the master manipulator... There would be no reason why you would not be successful. You would know exactly what to say to win over powerful people to their side, you would know what is so and so's biggest insecurities or fears...you would know who truly are your friends or loyal to you. And just imagine how it would help you out with the opposite sex, basically like Mel Gibson in "What Women Want".

One drawback would probably be 'systems overload' though, always having the ability to read people's minds might exhaust you, the myriad of information you receive might be exhausting. So it would be real cool if you could just turn it on and off, when needed.

Also, unlike the other superpowers, its discrete, and people will just think you're an extraordinarily perceptive guy without the superpowers.

It would be even cooler if you had the ability to mind control and manipulate people telepahtically.

My second choice would be invisibility, but that would just be too tempting for me to commit illegal crimes like walking in and out of banks, casinos, etc with loads of cash

 

[bigjohnson]

Out of the list I'd have to do with teleportation. I'd save so much time, not to mention I would constantly travel to exciting places every weekend to party.

That's really a solid one, takes the core of "flying" without the hassle really. It's a strong second for me, I'm sure there are lots of fun and surely some sort of money making is possible.

High end courier if nothing else.

 

[Da Realist]

Meant to is sort of a nonstarter, but able to is certainly valid. I'm ABLE to make coffee. I'm not able to do some other things. Compare it to a game of chess - how much easier would be if you could see what your opponents response to each of your available moves would be? And then, given that response, what your options would be, and what their reply to THOSE moves would be.

You could prune and remove a lot of "dead branches" from your decision tree.

In this case, it would help, but it really wouldn't take the power of seeing in the future to do it. I've heard of guys who can already do it.

Also, the chess game made me think of the movie Push when there were people who could see the future. In fact, one was so good the heroes had to come up with a plan so that even when the girl with the power moved into position to kill one them, she fell into a trap. That being said, even if you had the power, who's to say you still wouldn't be doing what the other person wants? If there is any player or strategist worth his salt, he'd let you get to a place where you're doing all the "right" things and then wipe you out.

I think truthfully, the power to see in the future would help in small systems, but larger ones with a lot more variables would be almost be impossible to affect.

 

[bigjohnson]

I think truthfully, the power to see in the future would help in small systems, but larger ones with a lot more variables would be almost be impossible to affect.

Well that's what would make it super instead of normal.


EDIT:

Take the chess thing as a scaled example. Would you say "well, no winning moves this turn, might as well forfeit"?

No, of course not. You'd look ahead and understand what move to make NOW to enable the desired outcome later. If your position was untenable you would discover the optimal exit strategy.

What would next Tuesdays Wall St. Journal be worth to you today? I mean, it's Saturday and the market is closed, so it's worthless, right?

 

[Irs88]

yea I change my vote to teleportation

 

[Warrior74]

In this case, it would help, but it really wouldn't take the power of seeing in the future to do it. I've heard of guys who can already do it.

Also, the chess game made me think of the movie Push when there were people who could see the future. In fact, one was so good the heroes had to come up with a plan so that even when the girl with the power moved into position to kill one them, she fell into a trap. That being said, even if you had the power, who's to say you still wouldn't be doing what the other person wants? If there is any player or strategist worth his salt, he'd let you get to a place where you're doing all the "right" things and then wipe you out.

I think truthfully, the power to see in the future would help in small systems, but larger ones with a lot more variables would be almost be impossible to affect.

That reminds me of Paul Ma'dib Atredies in the Dune series. Even though his enemies plotted against him and even though their plots succeeded, he had to walk the Golden path and fall into their traps or there would be no humanity at all. Perfect prescient vision equaled perfect boredem, endless suffering and death.

 

[Da Realist]

Well that's what would make it super instead of normal.

Like I said though, and you kind of agreed, you have to be ABLE to do something along with being able to see it. I brought up the bomb scenario and you went back to the coffee and chess game where you were actually able to affect things. I mean to be able to see the future is super in its self, but to affect it on a large scale is another level.

 

[BlakeW5]

That's really a solid one, takes the core of "flying" without the hassle really. It's a strong second for me, I'm sure there are lots of fun and surely some sort of money making is possible.

High end courier if nothing else.

That's my take on it. I could be anywhere in the world I wanted to be the second I wanted to be there. I could cram a life full of experiences into a month.

I'm of the belief that life is nothing more than your experiences and what you make of them, so it was a natural choice for me

 

[bigjohnson]

The other powers are sort of lame. Telekinesis would also be cool, but not listed. Control of time, cool, not listed. Weather would be incredibly useful but to make any personal benefit of it you would have to abandon your secret and your anonymity.

That doesn't appeal to me but it might to some. If you were willing to do that, well a lot of things would be possible.

Teleportation would be easy to keep quiet with a bit of care and you could have a lot of fun and make money with it. A few people might need to know to make a lot of money, but if you're not greedy it could probably be a secret.