If Muslim culture becomes popular in the US

[fleeordie5]

I say that Islam is different because the state of intellectual discourse in the Muslim world seems to be abysmal right now. Why else do millions of people erupt in protest because someone bothered to draw a depiction of Muhammad as a cartoon? The man must live under constant security now and has survived two attempts at his life. Don't these people understand the concept of free speech? Its like someone opened a time portal to the 12th century and Christians from that era are pouring out. There is something inherently wrong with a society that encourages behavior that leads to honor killings, subjugation of women, etc.

What do you think will happen if I drew a picture of the Lord raping an underaged Mother Mary? Or what if I drew Jesus as a Bastard with no real father? Would that be nice?

What you Americans do not understand about free speech is that it comes with responsibility. Yeah sure, you can say anything you like. But be prepared to face the consequences, too.

Oh by the way, Muslims were the first that started Woman education, and many other women rights. And that burqa you see on television is not what muslims are told to wear. It is a tradition (Just like how the Bible does not say anything about wearing jeans, or spiking hair with gel). Extremists do not represent the country.

One more thing: Do you really think extremists are really against freedom? Or the other western values you described? Look at where they bombed. World trading centres, trains, banks. I am not sure about you, but these places do not seem to represent freedom of speech to me. More like places with many people. And have you ever wondered why the Statue of Liberty was never attacked? The war is not a war against western values; It is a war against the US.

 

[Strelok]

This is probably one of the most idiotic statements I have ever heard. If you believe in the repression of free speech, the killing of apostates/infidels, the treatment of women like livestock, and irrational beliefs that cant be questioned - then you could say this. Otherwise, you are deluding yourself. Islam pushes lots of things that are contrary to our western values.

Women have no rights in lots of Arab societies, and some people on this forum might love that. But I don't think this is the way to deal with the problem of AFC memes in our society.

Just take your time to think and watch before you answer,anyway the guys gave you all the answers.
And most of all when you get a concept from a post,don't cut the part the explain the other.

 

[kingsam]

All Religions Are Bollocks

 

[Ease]

I was just waiting for an idiot like Serg999 to come on with his prejudices and ignorance. Dont listen to his babbling, he is arguing with himself.

Turkey is an islamic country. Greece is orthodox christian, but the cultural similiarities are undeniable. Both countries are a million miles away from American feminism. Yes, islam is a big barrier to the corruption of society from feminism. But I'm willing to bet that greece is about the same as turkey in terms of social norms.

The main thing is that it is not corrupted by the pussification of men, and powerification of women.

But to answer your question- yes, america would definitely benefit from the strict rules and regulations of Islam.

 

[Cry For Love]

Im glad that you think this. I cant speak from experience as I only know a few Muslims, but it seems from the sources I've read that this view is in the minority. The Quran is supposed to be regarded as the immutable word of God and every word must be followed to the letter.

In a sense, I agree with the fundamentalists of Christianity, Judaism, Islam on one thing - the liberal adherents of their religion are pickers and choosers - they don't actually follow what the texts say. Im just curious why you choose to ignore certain things the Quran says. Allah clearly says its okay to kill infidels and apostates.

I say that Islam is different because the state of intellectual discourse in the Muslim world seems to be abysmal right now. Why else do millions of people erupt in protest because someone bothered to draw a depiction of Muhammad as a cartoon? The man must live under constant security now and has survived two attempts at his life. Don't these people understand the concept of free speech? Its like someone opened a time portal to the 12th century and Christians from that era are pouring out. There is something inherently wrong with a society that encourages behavior that leads to honor killings, subjugation of women, etc.



You dont need a degree in divinity to understand what the Bible says. The passages are very clear in their meaning, the contradictions and absurdities plainly evident. That being said, If you want a thorough critique from someone who DOES have the credentials I recommend Bart Erhman:

http://www.amazon.com/Misquoting-Jesus-Story-Behind-Changed/dp/0060738170
http://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Interrupted-Revealing-Hidden-Contradictions/dp/0061173940/ref=pd_cp_b_1

He is a textual critic, graduate of Moody Bible College with a Ph.D. in Divinity from Princeton, who has arrived at the same obvious conclusion: The Bible is not the inerrent, unchanging word of God some people think it is - and its hardly useful for anything except giving us insight into the pre-enlightenment society that wrote it 2000 years ago.

Serg, you dont understand. What is the common thing of 12th century christianity and modern islam in arab countries? That is state control over religion. Any sort of ideological system, religious or political, WILL be allpowerful with the support of the state.

 

[cordoncordon]

Religion = Retardation.
It's used to control the masses, how do you think Christianity became popular? There were over fifty gospels yet only four comprise the bible as you know it. And the bible wasn't even a book until Constantine assembled those four gospels in three hundred A.D. and unified Rome under a Christian banner.. It's been purely political since it's inception.

Honestly if you believe any of that big man in the sky **** you should jump off of a cliff in his name... please.

Well said. And not only did Constantine, a Roman Emperor, do what you said, but he had his priests vote, that's right VOTE to make Jesus a deity. Before this vote, Jesus was known as just a man. But Constantine wanted to stop a war he had going on his his kingdom between the pagans and the Christians and he wanted to unite everyone, so he had them vote to say Jesus was a god, and if you didn't believe in him, you were put to death.

Religion is such a farce. I cannot even begin to understand why people believe that crap. I am NOT saying there isn't a higher power out there, something we can't yet understand to explain this amazing universe we live in, but if you want to believe in a god, you might as well believe in the flying spaghetti monster-it has just as much validity.

 

[Serg897]

I was just waiting for an idiot like Serg999 to come on with his prejudices and ignorance. Dont listen to his babbling, he is arguing with himself.

I think its funny that you think I have the prejudices, when you think the subjugation of women under Islam or other strict religious dogmas are acceptable. The strict rules and regulations are good for society? So you think the repression of free speech, freedom of religion, etc are synonymous with our western values? Think again.

Like others have said, I agree that religion is a farce and ultimately unnecessary for a post enlightenment society. It is a method of control that represses any critical or independent thought. This is what is wrong with the Muslim world today, and what is wrong with a lot of religious communities and dogma in the West.

 

[EA Gold]

But, ORGANIZED religion, will be the end of mankind.

Just Wow

What warped view of the world. Obviously you have never read a word from the Bible.

May I ask you, What caused world war 1 and its estimated 21 million deaths? Government and politicians.

What cause world war 2 and its estimated 50-70 million deaths? Government and politicians.

What caused the deaths of 50-100 million deaths after world war 2 from gulag camps and communist controlled countries. Government and politicians.


You or anyone here who think religion is the worst thing then governments must be complete maniacs and ignorant. I'm sure people out there would like to erase every death that happened caused by government and put the blame against religion and God.

The Holy Bible is a book which helps you to love one another. It doesn't put a gun in your hand to kill someone but a government can. With its propaganda can entice you to kill someone or with a gun to your head force you.

Like I said to myself when I was a kid, Why blame God for all your problems when its ultimately man's fault.

 

[HalfAddict]

Just Wow

What warped view of the world. Obviously you have never read a word from the Bible.

May I ask you, What caused world war 1 and its estimated 21 million deaths? Government and politicians.

What cause world war 2 and its estimated 50-70 million deaths? Government and politicians.

What caused the deaths of 50-100 million deaths after world war 2 from gulag camps and communist controlled countries. Government and politicians.


You or anyone here who think religion is the worst thing then governments must be complete maniacs and ignorant. I'm sure people out there would like to erase every death that happened caused by government and put the blame against religion and God.

May I ask you what made the bible happen?

Government and politicians. That's what.

And even after all the atrocities you mention here, they pale in comparison of the number of people slaughtered in the name of God.

So many people have died in the name of religion it makes the death count of WWII look like a drop in the bucket. Spout all the **** about tolerance you want, there are still places in the world where I would be killed for my words against your gods.



By the way I never run around calling my self some sort of tolerant atheist hero. I'm tolerant enough, and if you're that into organized religion you'd walk off a cliff for your god.. We've all seen radical muslims having a blast now haven't we.

 

[ArcBound]

This is what is wrong with the Muslim world today, and what is wrong with a lot of religious communities and dogma in the West.

Once again there are 50 muslim majority countries and muslims living in other countries as well so when some news article shows up about mideast conflicts who are a minority of muslims, it does not give you the right to judge the rest and say they are all subjugating women, want to kill infidels and etc.

Also there is a difference between what it says in the book and what is actually practiced. See most Muslims don't go through the Koran trying to find the worst sh!t and practice that. The Taliban are extremist Muslims and they are the ones that you almost always see in the news.

And you said the Bible is very clear on its points, in my last post I pointed out a quote that the Bible says you must kill everyone who does not take the Christian god as their god, and making 4 billion people today infidels to Christianity. And as you say the Bible passages are very clear in their meaning. So does that mean Christians want to kill all athiests, agnostics, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhas and flying spaghetti monster followers?

Obviously not and neither do most Muslims. Like I said there are a diverse range of Muslim countries (50) and if you bothered to look at some of them you would see they are as Western as Europe and America while still keeping their religious culture.

 

[Korrupt]

f*ck Muslim culture.

 

[Kerpal]

What you Americans do not understand about free speech is that it comes with responsibility. Yeah sure, you can say anything you like. But be prepared to face the consequences, too.

Then it's not really free speech, is it?

 

[Warrior74]

What you Americans do not understand about free speech is that it comes with responsibility. Yeah sure, you can say anything you like. But be prepared to face the consequences, too.

Sounds like a threat.

 

[ArcBound]

Sounds like a threat.

rofl yeah i find it interesting he made his account like two days with his only two posts being here and with a username of fleeordie

 

[Serg897]

Also there is a difference between what it says in the book and what is actually practiced. See most Muslims don't go through the Koran trying to find the worst sh!t and practice that. The Taliban are extremist Muslims and they are the ones that you almost always see in the news.

WHY are there differences? Why do you choose to ignore certain things the Quran says, and on what basis do you do so? Obviously there is a morality and a standard separate from your religion - because otherwise you wouldn't be picking and choosing what to follow and what to ignore. What good is the holy text if you only choose to follow certain parts? This is what perplexes me about liberal Christians, Muslims, etc. It seems to me that its actually the members of the Taliban that are actually being true to what the Quran says.

Like you said, many modern Christians are guilty of doing the exact same thing. The thing is that many societies in which Christianity is the dominant religion are also societies in which critical thinking, education are established. Where concepts like free speech, freedom of religion, freedom of assembly are written into constitutions and you are free NOT to believe. There is a seperation of church and state, and the few Christian fundamentalists are kept in check.

Not so in many Muslim countries, where the law is determined from the Quran and the government is an Islamic theocracy.

 

[Ease]

It seems to me that its actually the members of the Taliban that are actually being true to what the Quran says.

But truth is, you dont know very much about the topic.

You are a crusader fighting for womens rights? For freedom of speech?

It is these very things that ruined western society with things like feminism and gay rights. There needs to be a certain patriarchy, like god, evolution and nature intended- to keep things in line. So that we dont have men acting like women, and women acting like men.

It is truth that there are problems with non-secular arab states, but not because of women's rights and freedom of gay sex. I'm not a homophobe, i just dont like gays.

 

[ArcBound]

WHY are there differences? Why do you choose to ignore certain things the Quran says, and on what basis do you do so?

Because Islam is a way of life. However it is a way of life determined hundreds of years ago. It cannot completely stand after so much change. Even if western society was perfect a couple hundred years from now it wouldn't stand, some things might work but others won't.

For example some differences arrive from Modernist Muslims who say certain laws do not completely stand and also have different interpretations of the same texts. Then there are some Islamists who have their interpretation that the Koran should be the basis of the law system in a country. Modernist Muslims might follow the book but do not want the combination of Koranic laws and the state much like the separation of church and state.

 

[Falcon25]

Just Wow

What warped view of the world. Obviously you have never read a word from the Bible.

May I ask you, What caused world war 1 and its estimated 21 million deaths? Government and politicians.

What cause world war 2 and its estimated 50-70 million deaths? Government and politicians.

What caused the deaths of 50-100 million deaths after world war 2 from gulag camps and communist controlled countries. Government and politicians.


You or anyone here who think religion is the worst thing then governments must be complete maniacs and ignorant. I'm sure people out there would like to erase every death that happened caused by government and put the blame against religion and God.

The Holy Bible is a book which helps you to love one another. It doesn't put a gun in your hand to kill someone but a government can. With its propaganda can entice you to kill someone or with a gun to your head force you.

Like I said to myself when I was a kid, Why blame God for all your problems when its ultimately man's fault.

HEY ****HEAD,

More people have died in the name of GOD, than for any other cause in this world. Learn your history, then, come back here and try to argue with me. Crusades, Christian colonialism to Native Latin American and N. American tribes, Islamic conquests, Hebrew wars, Spanish Inquisition, Protestant-Catholic wars, Hindu-Islamic wars, I CAN GO ON AND ON........Dumb ass.

FRENCH AND INDIAN WAR
WORLD WAR I
WORLD WAR II
KOREAN WAR
VIETNAM WAR
AND ANY OTHER WAR
DOESN"T COME CLOSE COMBINED TO PEOPLE DYING FOR IN THE NAME OF GOD. JUST ANOTHER IGNORANT BIBLE THUMPER.


THERE IS NOTHING MORE DANGEROUS IN THIS WORLD THAN ORGANIZED RELIGION AND BANKERS.

 

[Cry For Love]

May I ask you what made the bible happen?

Government and politicians. That's what.

And even after all the atrocities you mention here, they pale in comparison of the number of people slaughtered in the name of God.

So many people have died in the name of religion it makes the death count of WWII look like a drop in the bucket. Spout all the **** about tolerance you want, there are still places in the world where I would be killed for my words against your gods.



By the way I never run around calling my self some sort of tolerant atheist hero. I'm tolerant enough, and if you're that into organized religion you'd walk off a cliff for your god.. We've all seen radical muslims having a blast now haven't we.

HEY ****HEAD,

More people have died in the name of GOD, than for any other cause in this world. Learn your history, then, come back here and try to argue with me. Crusades, Christian colonialism to Native Latin American and N. American tribes, Islamic conquests, Hebrew wars, Spanish Inquisition, Protestant-Catholic wars, Hindu-Islamic wars, I CAN GO ON AND ON........Dumb ass.

THERE IS NOTHING MORE DANGEROUS IN THIS WORLD THAN ORGANIZED RELIGION AND BANKERS.

Yes, let yourself entertain us, god haters. What then, are the big religious bloodbaths that are not government organised. Ill help you out mate, there are none

And another thing, all armed conflicts of the era before nationalism and conscription are TINY, compared to the total wars of the 20th century(and Napoleonic wars) and not just in absolute numbers, but also on the relative scale. The ideology of nationalism and its off springs, modern democracy and facism, are the true roots of the horrors of the world.

 

[HalfAddict]

No, people were stoning one another in the name of their imaginary men long before the words Nationalism, Democracy, and Fascism existed.

Not that I agree with the way things are done now mind you.

Just as I stated, governments are the ones who propagate your religion to keep you dumb, and to participate in their bloodbaths in the name of God, sorry for not spelling it out completely for you. You can give me your address and I'll come over and read the post to you too.

Thus all the religious wars in the name of God were done at the whim of a politician or a wanna be political power. Hard to say I am a God hater as there is no God to hate, but am I religion hater, you're goddamn right I am.
Is your religion hand in hand with your politics? Yes they are, I don't see too many Muslim Republicans do I, but damn do I see a TON of protestant and Catholic ones.

Just like you don't see a whole ton of Christians in Islam countries, or Muslims in Israel. All the crap you try to spout about wars is basically moot. That is what I'm trying to get at.

So for what it's worth I will see the world for what it is and we it's true Gods, you can continue to be "humble" in the presence of your imaginary men.

Because no matter how you try to spin it, mankind controls this world and it's goings on.

So lets burn an effigy of our enemies in the name of our Gods... GLORY!