I think Pook got it wrong: LTR=Dionysian Path, STR=Apollo Path

George Gordon

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This thread is beginning to sound like a scientific debate

Originally posted by AMF
"Can you define masculinity."

The answer is NO.
Hi AMF. Perhaps you can't define masculinity but, when you view masculinity and femininity together as one whole, you can reach a greater understanding. You can experience and move in it. It's not just masculinity, it's SEXUALITY--this includes femininity. When a person starts to take one away from the other, you follow a thread of confusion, leading to hallucination.

If we look at it through creation: man is will, woman is imagination; there is no poetry without including both, only philosophy. The seed and the womb; fetus.


Yet. Regarding all this banter on masculinity, fumbling through nature's koans of sexuality, it seems, when we get caught up in 'gender roles' and 'definitions', we leave HUMANITY out of the frame. We forget INTEGRITY. Though, it is understandable: this board concentrates on mastering attraction--the 'phyical', rather than the 'spiritual'. Perhaps that's why LOVE rarely shows up on these forums because users need to--hopefully temporarily--abandon the idea until they've extinquished their AFC conceptions or perceptions of it.

I would like to see more posts on love, but I think, with transitioning AFCs, such threads would be met with a lot of adversity: "What a chump!" "You're an AFC!" etc.

Originally posted by Pook
If you outlaw one part of human sexuality, we just focus on the other part. Sexuality must go somewhere.)
Touche. And I think this is two-fold: Outlawing masculinity leads to the praise of femininity; and outlawing sexuality (pursuing androgeny) leads to praise of sex (intercourse)--suppose they're one in the same, really.

!GEORGE GORDON!
 
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:rolleyes:

What kind of name is "George Gordon" anyway?
And whats up with those gay exclamation marks?

Ohhh, I get it. Its supposed to look cool!


ST-ST-ST-STOLEN!!

!CROTCH SNIFFER!
 

George Gordon

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Originally posted by Crotch Sniffer
:rolleyes:

What kind of name is "George Gordon" anyway?
And whats up with those gay exclamation marks?

Ohhh, I get it. Its supposed to look cool!


ST-ST-ST-STOLEN!!

!CROTCH SNIFFER!
People mirror me in real life too. I'm not sure what makes me so attractive that people have to follow my lead, and imitate me. I'm NOT God!

!GEORGE GORDON!
 
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Originally posted by George Gordon
People mirror me in real life too. I'm not sure what makes me so attractive that people have to follow my lead, and imitate me. I'm NOT God!

!GEORGE GORDON!
Wow. You really are high on yerself eh?

I guess the idea of satire and parody is totally lost on a pompous windbag such as yourself.

But hey its cool. I have respect for people who live in their own delusional realities of grandeur. Nicely done, bighead.
 

iqqi

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Originally posted by George Gordon
People mirror me in real life too. I'm not sure what makes me so attractive that people have to follow my lead, and imitate me. I'm NOT God!

!GEORGE GORDON!
ha ahha ahahaha, in case yall haven't noticed, i am george gordon! you can't tell?!


!iqqi!
 

Well I'm here to tell you there is such a magic wand. Something that will make you almost completely irresistible to any woman you "point it" at. Something guaranteed to fill your life with love, romance, and excitement.

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AMF

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George Gordon,

You say absolutely nothing with the air of someone saying everything.

!AMF!
 

George Gordon

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Originally posted by Crotch Sniffer
I guess the idea of satire and parody is totally lost on a pompous windbag such as yourself.
Crotch, read my reply again, and then tell me who is really lost on the idea of satire?

Originally posted by AMF
You say absolutely nothing with the air of someone saying everything.
AMF, do you think the reason you see 'nothing' is because you look through the scientist's microscope?

!GEORGE GORDON!
 

B9

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Re: This thread is beginning to sound like a scientific debate

Originally posted by George Gordon
Yet. Regarding all this banter on masculinity, fumbling through nature's koans of sexuality, it seems, when we get caught up in 'gender roles' and 'definitions', we leave HUMANITY out of the frame. We forget INTEGRITY. [/B]
MU! ;)
 

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How now my sweet creatures of bombast?

Shortimer said,

Don't tell me to 'be a man' because those words are truly meaningless. I can no more not be male than I cannot be a white guy.

Ah but you mean, "act masculine" and that's were this idea of yours falls apart. If looked at from a historical perspective the 'ideal man' has changed over recorded history.
You are like an ill roasted egg, a little bit too burnt on one side. But come, I will tickle your catastrophe.

Anyone can be ‘male’. Half of all children are males. But they are not men. There is a profound difference between a male and a man. Ask any woman.

Are you not satisfied with my definition of a Man? I will define manhood in one word…

Overcome!

Pook hops on the soapbox.

I love it when guys like you talk about multiple definitions of ‘a man’. Every time I see one of you guys (and you guys exist in crowds, there is nothing unique about the guy trying to be ‘the smartest guy in the room’) rattling about theories… I get inspired! Guys like you, Shortimer, are my own personal success coach.

You know what men do? We overcome. We lack the resources to properly clothe, shelter, and feed the family, but we overcome. We know it is inconvienant to state the obvious, especially with the threat of violence or slander, but we overcome. We know we are genetically skinny and weak, but we overcome. We know we are shy, withdrawn, and scared, but guess what? We’ve overcome.

And do you know what other males think when they see us? It depends on where their ego is at. If their ego is wrapped up in how ‘nice’ they are, they call us jerks. If their ego is wrapped up in how ‘secure’ and ‘safe’ their lives are, they call us maniacs and a risk to all society. And so if the ego is infatuated with the idea that they are smart, as they are intellectuals, they label us ‘mystics’ and think we are stupid. If I say, “Look like a Man rather than a sexless drone,” I will be declared of stereotyping. If I say, “Action, passion, strength- this is Man,” I will be called a traditionalist. If I say, “Overcome these gross elements of Earth and control your own Nature rather than be controlled by it,” I will be smeared as an electronic Buddha.

History is our Chorus but Poetry is our bugle, always summoning the males to rise up and not let their potential fust unused.

Blow bugles, blow! Nowhere will you find literature, poetry, or plays enshrining the Nice Guy, the ‘teary eyed’ philosopher, or any wallflower. This is true within all cultures, from all ages past, from the present, and will continue in the future. The tales that we love to watch and imitate from James Bond, Illiad, children’s bedtime stories of the ‘hero’ knight, to the Norse Mythologies and tales from Africa, from Native American Indians in their worship of the warrior spirit to Abraham, Mohammed, and Christ’s vision for people controlling themselves rather than be controlled by ‘caricatures’, on up to the spirit of harnessing the secrets of Nature to blossom the civilization that makes your theories possible (in any other age, you would have starved by now), all these share the same spirit to overcome.

Oh blow bugles blow! For Man is not a figment alone, women are critical to the creation of men. The mother with a weak husband will attempt to raise her children to be strong. The male who marries and thinks he will sit on his @ss all day will come to a rude awakening when the woman says, “Get your butt off the couch and go get a job, now”. Or take the woman who, with her husband dead and left with 5 children, must slave to get her children to become something of themselves (this example occurring within my family a couple generations ago, with the five males becoming two lawyers, two doctors, and an executive).

Blow bugles, blow loud and far! Women did the things they did, as men did the things they did in daily life, not because of some vast male conspiracy but solely to survive, in other words, to overcome. Blow bugles! For we are called Mankind for the reason, because Humans overcome. Blow bugles blow! Poor intellectuals, who are word based and cannot transcend even a dictionary! They are deaf to the bugles, they see the poetry and legends of all as fairy tales, as meaningless to them as vapor in the morning dawn.

To the contrary, it is your theories that are Adult Fairytales, badly prosed books where people read strange matters. There is no Pook philosophy because sexuality rides on a plane higher than our theories, no matter how lovely and ‘revolutionary’ we think we are.

All is vanity, and there is nothing new under the sun.

You know the typical modern 'man' drinks lots of beer, reads at an 8th grade level and watch sports all the time. Is that what I should be?
Notice the arrogance in this statement.

The smart are not those who read lots and lots of books. The smart are those who can read their own heart and mind. I would rather be dumb but with integrity than pointy headed and absurd.

Saul Bellow summoned up intellectuals best, calling them literary mandarins, culture-bureaucrats, Philistines, pampered children, small Daedaluses, custodians of culture, ideological package-makers, truffle makers, French-chocolate makers, epigones, pseudo-learned swamp makers, crisis chatters, mind defectives, high-culture surgeons who perform lobotomies, technological achievers, the enemies of the past, oblivion makers, pedants digging in the stacks of libraries, mole-wise, pythons, ivy league sodomites, and figurines of hand carved suet.

You see, Shortimer, people like me look at intellectuals, those teary eyed, inflated with divine ambition puffed, make utterances at the invisible events, walking on a airy cushion of theory even for an eggshell. To the intellectual, rightly to be great is not to stir with strength and passion but merely to find quarrel in a straw. We smile and nod sympathetically like we care what your gums are flapping, but actually we’re thinking you’re an academic vine that wraps itself around some dogma who is unable to grow a spine and say something, anything, that is politically incorrect, unique, or interesting. You beat your chest and think that those who do not spend their free time pouring over books or throwing themselves at the Ivory Tower are somehow ‘stupid’. But the Don Juan knows they are smart, for they did not put an abyss between their heart and mind. It is because of people like you that I will never spend my life trying to write academic books no one will read or think I deserve ‘respect’ solely because of a ‘Dr.’ before my name.

You say that by calling women ‘nature’s emissaries’ I am dehumanizing them. But when discussion turns to sexuality, language cannot keep up. This is why you get a metaphor instead of a mathematical equation. This is also why all the ‘techniques’ in the world are but coinage of the ego.

Anyone can come on here, look at their successes with women, and turn it into a manifesto. “I did this, here,” or “I did this, then”. To say that I have a philosophy is like saying the discovery of gravity is a philosophy. No, it is a law of nature. Just as there are certain laws that govern celestial bodies, so are there laws that govern earth based bodies. Alas, we lack the language.

Picture yourself talking to a ten year younger version of yourself. What would you say? How do you transmit the knowledge of what you've learned to the younger you?

This is a supreme dilemma that older people face. The things they know, the things they've experienced, the way they view the world.... it cannot be transmitted to the younger generations. People try but language lacks the appropriate channel. They just won't make sense in the end.

You say, "Pook! You are not being concrete!" But there are some things in Nature that are extremely difficult to translate and channel. This is why a metaphor will get the idea further across from a 'factuality'. This is how a fable will process an idea better than a direct statement. Those who scoff at this know very little about language and its limits.

How do you tell someone you love them? What arrangement of words do you use? Do you quote a poet? What do you say? Chances are, if the love really exists, you would be completely silent. Shakespeare noticed this. In Much Ado About Nothing, we hear Claudio, when he is presented as Hero as his love, gets accused for not saying anything! Beautrice says, "Speak, count, it tis your cue!" And Claudio manages to get out, "Silence is the perfect herald of joy" Hero is unable to speak either so she kisses him.

This limit of language is the conflict of King Lear. Lear demands declarations of love from his three daughters. Two (who do not love him) give rosy elaborate and wonderful responses. Cordelia (who does love him) is unable to give any response so Lear foolishly thinks she doesn't love him and takes away her inheritance.

So there is a reason why when Mr. Nice Guy says "I love you" all day, every day, the women will not believe him whereas the Don Juan, who rarely if ever says "I love you", will be believed.

What is the intellectual to do? Read his books and find out the ‘correct’ or ‘pragmatical’ way to tell the woman he loves her? It will not do, for women are not mathematical creations.

I am not warring against psychology or philosophies. But when it comes to women, the only sure path to success is to let yourself be human, with all the mistakes, risks, and joys that entails. Man up!

For there are more wonders found in Nature, Shortimer, than could ever be dreamed of by your psychology.
 

JustDoItAlways

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Pook, you must get one helluva mark in your Lit. Comp. classes. And I'm sure your female professors must want to screw your brains out.

But being a "MAN" means "Overcoming" is one hell of a lesson.

(just take it easy on the drugs from now on okay. LOL)
 

Channel your excited feelings into positive thoughts and behaviors. You will attract women by being enthusiastic, radiating energy, and becoming someone who is fun to be around.

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DjDreamer

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Interesting convo...

When I see Pook express his disdain for intellectuals, I often wonder if he's using shrooms...I ponder about what tools he uses to construct his own little world...I"m interested in knowing how he gets the energy to discuss non-intellectual things.
 

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Originally posted by Pook
How now my sweet creatures of bombast?
A little fatigued from running outside in the cold, but thanks for asking.

Originally posted by Pook
Are you not satisfied with my definition of a Man? I will define manhood in one word…

Overcome!
By the way you spell out your definition of ‘a man’ then we must also include females as ‘real men.’ Margaret Thatcher, the “Iron Lady” was part of the movement to stop the spread of Soviet aggression during the 80’s and helped bring down their empire. There are other examples I could site but I think you get the idea. So now should we not count the Iron Lady as a ‘real man’ or when you say ‘real man’ do you mean something more like ‘person of excellence’ or ‘person of character’ or some such?

Originally posted by Pook
I love it when guys like you talk about multiple definitions of ‘a man’. Every time I see one of you guys (and you guys exist in crowds, there is nothing unique about the guy trying to be ‘the smartest guy in the room’) rattling about theories… I get inspired! Guys like you, Shortimer, are my own personal success coach.
Glad to know I inspire you. As for my rattling theories I’ll get to what’s up with that in a moment, you'll see it under 'reason is a sword.'

Originally posted by Pook
You know what men do? We overcome. We lack the resources to properly clothe, shelter, and feed the family, but we overcome…
So have countless women; does that include them in the category of ‘real man?’

Originally posted by Pook
And so if the ego is infatuated with the idea that they are smart, as they are intellectuals, they label us ‘mystics’ and think we are stupid.
That is most certainly not why I label you a mystic. I label you one because of the thought processes you’ve displayed here to come to your conclusions. This is not ego: this is reason.

Reason is a candle and a sword.

On the battlefield a warrior without his sword is defenseless and so too is a mind without reason. Reason has shown itself to be the only reliable path to knowledge, the only reliable method to distinguish the truth from lies, as someone else once put it: reason is a candle in the dark for our demon haunted world. When you say you are anti-intellectual and anti-reason you are saying you are the warrior without his sword. Without this sword your mind can be easily overthrown by every half-truth and charlatan who comes your way. That’s why pyramid schemes work, that’s why the old and children are scammed by con men: because their capacity for reason is so weak.

Reason is a candle and a sword: the candle illuminates our world and the sword slays the demons.

Originally posted by Pook
Blow bugles, blow! Nowhere will you find literature, poetry, or plays enshrining the Nice Guy, the ‘teary eyed’ philosopher, or any wallflower.
Then what about Romeo? He was a sappy nice guy who has been enshrined by our culture. You’ve said as much yourself about that character. Now I guess you could argue about what Shakespeare meant but the message being received by the modern world is the most important. Let’s not forget that chump who married Helen of Troy, he sent an army to go and get his cheating wife back; costing many men their lives and now is in our legends.

Originally posted by Pook
on up to the spirit of harnessing the secrets of Nature to blossom the civilization that makes your theories possible (in any other age, you would have starved by now)
You seem to have things backwards, ideas put men to action; not the other way around. If there had been no idea of better health then doctors would not research. If there had been no idea of liberty then the U.S. government would not have been formed the way it had. If there had been no idea of there being one true god then no one would have crashed airplanes into buildings.

Ideas move the world; the world does not move ideas. We may make discoveries about the world that lead to new ideas but without the first idea there would have been no motive to grow. Without ideas no one could have thought that a better life may exist and fight for it. Without ideas men would not have even considered civilization because a state of laws and government is surely not part of any ‘natural’ order; at least no by the way you seem to mean that word.

Right now our world is in the midst of a Paradigm War: shall the forces of religion and superstition continue to have men lose their lives needlessly for an invisible friend named ‘god’ or will reason prevail and the Middle-East end its wars. The battle over ideas is a war for the very soul of man, when reason is in ascendance Apartheid ends and the US Constitution is written; when superstition is king then men strap bombs to themselves in the Gaza Strip or those who are ‘different’ are denied their rights.

Originally posted by Pook
Poor intellectuals, who are word based and cannot transcend even a dictionary! They are deaf to the bugles, they see the poetry and legends of all as fairy tales, as meaningless to them as vapor in the morning dawn.
I don’t know what kind of ‘intellectuals’ you’ve met, but you certainly need to meet more if you think everyone with a large throbbing brain is like this. Da Vinci alone would certainly rob you of this stereotype of ‘intellectual as unimaginative’, but let us not forget modern day examples such as Heinlein, Sagan, and Rand. If you can’t see the poetry in their works, or their ability to see beyond the ordinary then I’m truly sorry you are so narrow-minded.

Being a wizard of science takes FAR more than just book knowledge; every intellectual of great stature had the ability to see beyond what was already known to glimpse what could be. Newton and Einstein could not have accomplished their works if they had not had imagination to do so. There was no precedent for what they accomplished, no one to guide their way; what they accomplished they did by the force of their intellect and imagination.

The only difference between them and Shakespeare is that William had the kind of imagination you approve of.

"The world is so exquisite, with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there's little good evidence. Far better, it seems to me, in our vulnerability, is to look Death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides." (Billions and Billions p. 215) Carl Sagan

Originally posted by Pook
Saul Bellow summoned up intellectuals best, … mole-wise, pythons, ivy league sodomites, and figurines of hand carved suet.
Don’t mistake the politics of authoritarianism with intellectualism. That’s like those who think all atheists are communists. An atheist can come from any point on the political spectrum and so can any intellectual.

Originally posted by Pook
…who is unable to grow a spine and say something, anything, that is politically incorrect, unique, or interesting. You beat your chest and think that those who do not spend their free time pouring over books or throwing themselves at the Ivory Tower are somehow ‘stupid’.
I beat my chest at those who would rob man of his only tool for knowledge in this world: reason. I beat my chest at those who would rob a man of his only tool for defending the integrity of his mind: reason.

I have no idea why you think an intellectual will necessarily hold some political view, but this idea of yours is clearly wrong. Challenge your preconceptions or they will challenge you.

Originally posted by Pook
It is because of people like you that I will never spend my life trying to write academic books no one will read or think I deserve ‘respect’ solely because of a ‘Dr.’ before my name.
Don’t presume you know all my beliefs, as I do not presume to know all of yours. A ‘Dr.’ is just a title; it is a piece of paper that says you met some requirements. No title ever makes anyone right, instead it is force of argument that makes someone right; Einstein was a patent clerk when he did his best work; he was not some scholar.

Originally posted by Pook
To say that I have a philosophy is like saying the discovery of gravity is a philosophy.
That’s exactly what I’m saying. Perhaps the discovery itself is not philosophy, but the explanation of how it works certainly is. Its explanation is based on the philosophy of science, which is in turn based on the philosophy of reason. While gravity itself may be real, the explanation of it is only an idea and exists in the abstract; it is an idea that can change as more information is discovered. THAT is why what you say is a philosophy: because it is an explanation for a phenomenon and not the phenomenon itself.
 

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Originally posted by Pook
No, it is a law of nature. Just as there are certain laws that govern celestial bodies, so are there laws that govern earth based bodies. Alas, we lack the language.
Maybe you do, but don’t lump the whole human race in there with yourself.

Originally posted by Pook
You say, "Pook! You are not being concrete!" But there are some things in Nature that are extremely difficult to translate and channel. This is why a metaphor will get the idea further across from a 'factuality'. This is how a fable will process an idea better than a direct statement. Those who scoff at this know very little about language and its limits.
Those who claim this lack the imagination to push language beyond its current limits.

Originally posted by Pook
And Claudio manages to get out, "Silence is the perfect herald of joy" Hero is unable to speak either so she kisses him.
Who ever said written or spoken language was the only method of communication?

Originally posted by Pook
What is the intellectual to do? Read his books and find out the ‘correct’ or ‘pragmatical’ way to tell the woman he loves her?
He would go out into the world and observe and experiment, because that’s how reason works. Maybe an example will help. Have you seen Lord of the Rings?

Gandalf = intellectual. He is wise, can apply that wisdom and seeks further wisdom. He restores the overthrown mind of the king.

Wormtounge (sp?) = anti-intellectual. He cares only for his point of view and seduces the vulnerable mind of the king with his words. The king was not a man of reason so his mind had no defense to this attack; it took an intellectual to restore him.


Originally posted by Pook
It will not do, for women are not mathematical creations.
Nor are they nature’s emissaries – they are people and as such are creatures of habit and therefore predictable after observation and experimentation. How do you think police investigators solve crimes? Because humans are predictable and transparent once you understand them.

Originally posted by Pook
For there are more wonders found in Nature, Shortimer, than could ever be dreamed of by your psychology.
Don’t mistake the political theories of feminist and totalitarians with how actual science works. The foundation of all science is a simple statement “I wonder,” from here the first men went out to discover why. Einstein once said "The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science."

Another soulless scientists said:
“There is mystery in the Universe, beguiling mystery, but it isn't capricious, whimsical, frivolous in its changeability. The Universe is an orderly place and, at a deep level, regions of it behave like other regions, times behave like other times. If you put a brick on a table it stays there unless something lawfully moves it, even if you meanwhile forget it's there. Poltergeists and sprites don't intervene and hurl it about for reasons of mischief or caprice. There is mystery but not magic, strangeness beyond the wildest imagining, but no spells or witchery, no arbitrary miracles. “ -Richard Dawkins

Wonder is the beginning of wisdom. How wise are you?
 
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Haha!

Short Timer you crack me up.

Good Luck getting Puke to admit he is wrong. You can poke so many holes in his flimsy arguments but he will just ignore your direct questions in an effort to preserve his ego. Instead he will artfully select the seeming weakness of your reply and not address any of the issues as he tries to make you look like a fool.

Funny how a guy who bashes intellectuals is ultimately commiting the very acts he condemns

:p <-- Me laughing at Puke
 

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Originally posted by Pook: If this website disapeared tomorrow, I wouldn't know the difference. For those of you who think that I am here just 'for attention' (which is odd since I run away whenever someone tries to talk to me), consider I have 100 pages of pookish text on my computer right now. Should I upload it or not? It doesn't matter to me, I wrote it for myself. A couple of the posts have been sitting on my computer for YEARS.

The purpose of this post is to tell you guys to STOP WASTING YOUR TIME in psycho-analyzing Pook
You don't like people telling you to "look forward, pay attention" when you're gazing into the heavens while you're walking briskly and a ditch is in front of you?

I applaud you for your integrity however your disdain for receiving criticism is boo-worthy.

Originally posted by Pook: Some people think I am a buddist. Others think I am gay (!). Still, others think I hate women, others thing I am just a nerd wtih a computer, others think I am a really old guy, and my favorite, some people think I'm secretly a woman!
I must admit, some of those thoughts have crossed my mind but that just happens when your posts are ambiguous...that occurs when you condemn philosophy and philosophize at the same time...
 

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I wanted to reply with my main post, but I wanted to look up some things first...

Originally posted by Pook
Shortimer said,
You know the typical modern 'man' drinks lots of beer, reads at an 8th grade level and watch sports all the time. Is that what I should be?
Notice the arrogance in this statement.

Notice the FACTS in this statement:

TV: “On average, individuals in the industrialized world devote three hours a day to the pursuit--fully half of their leisure time, and more than on any single activity save work and sleep. At this rate, someone who lives to 75 would spend nine years in front of the tube.” From Scientific American http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=0005339B-A694-1CC5-B4A8809EC588EEDF

I'm thinking at least some of that time is dedicated to sports!

Beer: “Beer and wine are the best-selling beverages for the HEB grocery store chain, which has 300 stores in Texas, Louisiana and Mexico. Beer and wine made up 33 percent of all beverages sold at the stores in 2002. Soft drinks were the second-most popular beverage, making up 28 percent of sales. Milk made up 21 percent, juices 14 percent, bottled water 3 percent and sports drinks 2 percent. Bought milk?” From http://www.window.state.tx.us/comptrol/fnotes/fn0303/beverage.html

Women sure don't seem to like beer, so I wonder who is drinking it.

Average Reading Level: “Most general newspapers are written at a 6th-8th grade reading level, in order to reach the widest possible audience. Specialized newspapers such as the Wall Street Journal are written for a more technical audience, and are written at a higher reading level.” From
http://www.ena.org/EN-Week/NewsReleaseInstr.asp

Here is a newspaper admitting even worse: "The nationally syndicated "Mini Page has been a Wednesday feature of the American Press since 1981. The "Mini Page" is written at the third-grade level for children and new adult readers to easily understand issues in science, technology, language, history, careers and more. Each week the "Mini Page" contains easily understood articles as well as puzzles, games and recipes.” From: http://www.americanpress.com/nie/docs/parents.htm

Not arrogance, but facts.
 

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The facts show real men are a dying breed...

ShortTimer you are complicating things.

To be a man simply means to be yourself and to better yourself. It does'nt mean mimicking someone elses personality...showing no integrity...living contradictory...
 

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Originally posted by ShortTimer
The way you spell out your definition of ‘a man’ then we must also include females as ‘real men.’ Margaret Thatcher, the “Iron Lady” was part of the movement to stop the spread of Soviet aggression during the 80’s and helped bring down their empire.
ShortTimer, if I had to apply Pook's definition of a man to you, I'd say Margaret Thatcher is more of a man than you.

!MVPlaya!
 
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