I really don't understand about the whole University degree hype

[miguel t]

I don't know if any of you guys heard the news. I actually heard it last week on a talk show about the most successful race in america. Here is the break down by race with average income:

Asians $60.000 , 50% of asian-americans have univ degree

Whites $51.000 , 30% of caucasinas have univ degree

Hispanics $38.000 , 15% of hispanics have univ degree

Afro-americans $33.000 , 15% of african-americans have univ degree

So Since the U.S population is around 300 million, whites are the majority, and asians only make up 4%, hispanics around 25%, Blacks 15% .. my rough estimation comes out that not even a half of population has college degree. And the average income would be around $40.000 t0 $50.000 - ish.

I make about $40.000 a year. With some college education (i have about 60 credits). The first year teachers here (Las vegas) only make $28.000 with a B.A, and after they recieve masters, salrary goes up about $.4.000 a year. They top out at somewhere around $48.000. Now, i don't see why i should go back to college and be a "real teacher", if i'm making alot more then they do. I also do ALOT LESS, i have no responsibility, i don't have to worry about report cards, lesson plan, deal with assh ole principals - i just go in and baby sit for 6 hours, that's it. I get the same benefits, paid hoildays, paid sick days, paid vacation.

I just don't see any reason to go to university unless if you want to be a doctor, lawyer, or a scientist. It's funny how so many people believe that only way to be rich and successful is going to college. Oh yeah, how many college graduates do we personally know makes six figure income? I'm surrounded by college graduates at work, i don't think they live any better then the garbage men who pics up my trash. Online dating service are filled with college graduates who cannot find a date/wife. so this theory about how women refuse to marry a man without a college degree is a fos.

 

[realsmoothie]

Sure... you can make lots of money if you want to have your face stuck in someone's engine or under their sink for the rest of your life.

But I agree that college educations are not about making money. They're about figuring out who you are, and finding the job you WANT.

 

[Bible_Belt]

Those numbers look deceptively high. Are they median numbers? An average is usually skewed upward by the richest people. The US median income for all races is between $24-$28K, depending on the precise method of calculation.

The bigger money in education is in graduate degrees in business, medicine, and law. The median income for attorneys in the US is over $70K.

 

[Cesare Cardinali]

anything else.

 

[insidious]

So what is wrong with the concept of learning for the sake of learning?
I can't say with certainty, but I suspect that the idea of going to the university as a "vocational" school is a modern phenomena. I went to school with certain goals, with the intent of expanding upon my existing field of interests and using them to make a career. Money, salary, blahblah, of course it was something I strove for, a great by-product of going to school - but that was NOT the only reason I sent to college.

Your outlook on secondary education cheapens and trivializes it - if you wanna make money, just work hard. Or steal! The American way

 

[diplomatic_lies]

The average college graduate makes more money than the average high school graduate. Look at the median incomes between a lawyer and a labourer, for instance.

Obviously, there are some like Bill Gates who made a lot of money, but we're talking about the national population here, not the best and brightest.

 

[A-Unit]

Re:

Look at it like leverage.

If you get a degree, and it costs 20k x 4 years, that equals 80k. Once you get a job, post-graduation, what's the debt service on that? Can you earn MORE than you would have had you not gone to college. For instance. If the debt service is $8400, are you at least making that much more than you had if you hadn't gone, or will you make even more?

Of course parents want the best for their kids, but given how expensive it is, it needn't be rushed, to where kids and/or parents are indebted for their lives (10-15 years, unless you're wealthy), just to "find themselves." Sure, some of the basics will transfer if you don't like your degree, but that also will cost 10-40k more just to retrain because you didn't like what you studied at only 18 years old.

If you're DEAD set on what you're going to do, DO it. And go full bore. However, if you're waffling,"just to get something," don't indebt your parents or you. It isn't an "experience" of finding oneself; all of life is an "experience" of finding oneself." It's a path that throws more people OFF what they wanted than onto what they wanted.

I watched the movie "accepted" over the weekend, and it had a good underlying philosophy for a comedy movie. Learning is about WHAT we want, not what the economy wants or needs. If you're in alignment with market demand, then you'll make good money. If not, who cares. The only time it doubly sucks is when you're not in alignment with market demand AND you dislike what you do.

Going to college is a PERSONAL choice, but I feel there's a lot of disillusionment surrounding it the path of college. First, is that kids will make big bucks. Quite the opposite. Getting a degree is about the LONG-RUN. All stats that support going to begin with are that over THE LIFETIME you are better (such as 20 or more years), not immediately. More so, the person who works a shyt job, or even physical labor, could theoretically BANK 80k, while you're 80k in debt, or MORE, and they have REAL work experience, whereas you likely do not. You're 160k off in ASSETS. Add in time, and they'll outpace you, IF, and the big IF, they're driven.

Second, learning is generally about modeling successful habits, yet all the stuff taught in most institutions is taught by people have not WALKED THE TALK, they're just repeating the TALK, and mostly from SCIENTIFIC studies, NOT from what makes the world go round. So most education is programming for a job, than practical, useful tools. I'm not DISSING teachers, but if I wanted to be a PUA, I go model a PUA. If I want big muscles, I model the guy who's TRAINED 100's of guys with average genetics to be big. If I want wealth, I FOLLOW the guy who's done it from next-nothing. I don't go to someone who's been indoctrinated in a system since birth, only learned from handed down textbooks, and then expect to get paid alot because I can parrott back the best information from textbooks. The biggest money making skills will be: people skills/salesmanship/communications, creativity, a Can-Do-Attitude. Anything else can be learned with enough time and determination.

The Third aspect is, much of College is spent NOT doing what it is you want. You can't take the classes that interest you, entirely. Rather you have to take what fits the degree. So if you aimlessly wanted 4 years of TRYING classes, it wouldn't necessarily be possible. You could go GEN-ED most years, and if you have the scratch to back it, you could stay for 6 and be done with it, or rush and be out in 4.

Passion/Love of Work + Education = Success, Happiness and Wealth.

Kids might LOOK more mature, but they're LESS mature than their parents at the similar age. Why?

Average life expectancy of previous 2 generations = 65.
Average life expectancy currently = 80.

% of life that age 18 represents = 27% (1 quarter) of previous generations.
% of life that age 18 represents = 22.5% (less than a quarter) of current generation.

If you're living to 80, 20 is the quarter point, and because you're still in the same "system" at 20, you haven't faced that fact, and may never face it. During college, at 21, there became a sharp split with the 21+ crowd and the under 21's. Kids who'd turned 21 began leaving campus for the weekend or to party, rather than socialize with freshman and sophomore's. You'll hear many seniors talk about how they're READY TO BE DONE WITH IT and move on. Natural or unnatural, the transition occurs.

Moreover, the college experience for some, doesn't "thrust" them into situations which force their growing up. Parents ENABLE their lengthening of childhood, by pushing them to college, where the only responsibility is drinking, classes (and skipping them), and getting food at the cafe. They're not paying OUT OF POCKET for many things while attending school, so the money aspect doesn't seem real. Then, when they get home and graduate, they are further allowed to live at home because they're getting established, and perhaps because the loans are quite cumbersome.

College isn't INHERENTLY bad or good. It is what it is for different people. I know people who thought going would be a good idea, got a 2.0 or worse, borrowed, and got knocked up right around senior year, never to use the degree or gain by it, accept by having a child. Other's, don't use their degree, and it hasn't furthered their life. Of course they can now go onto a graduate degree, but they've yet to show any ability to profit by the SMALL degree, why should they profit by the BIG one? And still some, nailed BIG internships, got their MBA's paid for, and now make good coin at a young age.

College is good if...

*You truly want the EDUCATION first. (If it's an elite school, the relationships matter, too. If not, then it's dependent on your attitude to form a network).
*You're not indebting yourself or your parents.
*You want to go for you, not because you think your future will be better.


The biggest adversity to life is everyone else wanting to live it for you, instead of allowing you to live your life for yourself.



A-Unit

 

[channiez]

^ Great post. Im applying for University right now, and things like this really make me think if its such a good idea.

Ive done some research however, and I found out that a Computer Science degree will allow me to start just above the bottom of a company (instead of being untrained) which means I can actually move up the ranks with time. Instead of being stuck at the bottom and never even facing the prospect of a promotion.

I read in the book "Think and Grow Rich" that its never good to be stuck at the bottom, because you get into a Comfort Zone and never push yourself to go up the ranks.

 

[Latinoman]

^ Great post. Im applying for University right now, and things like this really make me think if its such a good idea.

Ive done some research however, and I found out that a Computer Science degree will allow me to start just above the bottom of a company (instead of being untrained) which means I can actually move up the ranks with time. Instead of being stuck at the bottom and never even facing the prospect of a promotion.

I read in the book "Think and Grow Rich" that its never good to be stuck at the bottom, because you get into a Comfort Zone and never push yourself to go up the ranks.

Well...going to a University is a great idea.

If you don't...I assure you that then the Chinese, Indians, Pakistanies, Europeans, South Americans, and others that flood our Universities will.

A degree provide you with two things...

1- The ability to learn

and more importantly

2- the ability to open doors.

Times have changed. Before a degree was not that important. Today...without one, you don't even have a chance in many places.

Now...the problem is that people tend to pick a lot of CRAPPY degrees.

Any degree on Engineering, Medicine, Business is always a good one to have. Although, the only one that will open the doors with simply an undergraduate degree would be the Engineering ones (and perhaps accounting due to the CPA certification).

 

[PRMoon]

At my place of employment, without a university degree the highest level of employment you can attain is manager status. Unless you've got serious work experience from a very round about way or have had your hand held by the mob you will NEVER be a director or higher and that's where the money is. Honesltly being a manager in a casino isn't all that great. The only thing you get is benefits and garunteed full time status (sometimes 18 hour days...on salary) and you can be called in at anytime. I just left a manager's postition because I wasn't interested in the department anymore. Also the people underme were actually making MORE then I was. Can't have that so I transfered to a better postition where a university degree is a required and excludes "the rif raff" I'm now making more money and am eyeballing an ever high level of employment with more perks and benifits then i thought was posssible. Without a degree none of this would be possible. My last postion, which wasn't all that great, would have been the end of the line for me because I would have hit a self imposed ceiling.

 

[Adone]

And the average income would be around $40.000 t0 $50.000 - ish.

I don't believe the average income for americans is around $40.000 to $50.000. The average income in Italy's richest region is less than $29.000 and it's one of the richest regions in Europe. I'm pretty sure average income in US is around $24.000.

A degree is useful if you aspire to a great career, but until you have the necessary "on field" experience, it's pretty obvious that your salaries won't be that much greater than someone who hasn't it.

 

[Capt.Jack Sparrow]

My brother finished highschool, and became a truck driver at the age of 25.
He was making 1k a week

Hes 30 now and makes 3k a week
How?
He bought his own truck and started a company
He sells his services to gas companies. Hes those guys that put gas in the hole things at the gas station, dangerous job it is.

So 3k times 4 times a month is 12k
12 k times 12 months = 144k
But after government taxes and all that he should be left with around 110k or something like that im guessing
:O Im amazed and he used to be a gang banger

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Don't underestimate the importance of education. However the question should be what should be learned and then the ability for the person to most effectivly apply that knowledge.

 

[Bible_Belt]

People who are naturally gifted at capitalism will inevitably rise to the top of the system, but education usually makes it an easier climb.

 

[comic_relief]

I'm going to college for a means to an end.

College = wanting to find out more about myself = traveling = Studying hard * Getting connections and meeting people * Studying abroad for a year = Getting college degree = Joining Americorps ($4,500 per tour * two tours or two years = $9,000) = Joining Peace Corps (Two tours or five years * $5,000 per tour = $10,000) = No more student loans according to my parents ($15,000) = Getting into politics or starting up my own business = Retiring Finacially Independent

Everything is a means to an end. Without the college degree, I wouldn't be able to join the Peace Corps.

comic_relief

 

[Jariel]

I've been at university for the past 4 years. I've learned so much valuable information from the people I've met, I've developed social and conversational skills, but I've learned barely anything useful from my lectures or books.

Formal education - where the 3 "R's" stand for read, remember and regurgitate - is overrated. Academics don't believe in subjective opinions or free thought, everything must be supported by specialists in the field and regardless of how ingenious your ideas, if you don't conform to academic formalities and criteria, you get nowhere.

I gave up a good career to pursue my degree and I have huge debts over my head. I gained so many amazing things and good friends from the social aspect of university, but the degree itself is nothing to me except a VERY expensive piece of paper.

 

[MetalFortress]

Go to colege. If you're planning not to go to college, you had better have a damn good alternative plan, because if you're just living on dreams and wishes, without paying your dues and working toward your goal, you'll still be bagging my groceries in ten years.

 

[miguel t]

Go to colege. If you're planning not to go to college, you had better have a damn good alternative plan, because if you're just living on dreams and wishes, without paying your dues and working toward your goal, you'll still be bagging my groceries in ten years.

maybe if you live in a big industrial cities where you really NEED a degree. i was giving you an example about where i live, where 70% of people here have casino/hotel jobs. you can drop out of hs and get a job at major strip hotel, and still make $70.000 a year parking cars. i mean come on ... casino workers with no education makes more than a teacher who has a masters degree.

if i could make high 5's to low six figure income (for the rest of my life) with any kind of degree, i will go back to school tomorrow.

 

[miguel t]

I've been at university for the past 4 years. I've learned so much valuable information from the people I've met, I've developed social and conversational skills, but I've learned barely anything useful from my lectures or books.

Formal education - where the 3 "R's" stand for read, remember and regurgitate - is overrated. Academics don't believe in subjective opinions or free thought, everything must be supported by specialists in the field and regardless of how ingenious your ideas, if you don't conform to academic formalities and criteria, you get nowhere.

I gave up a good career to pursue my degree and I have huge debts over my head. I gained so many amazing things and good friends from the social aspect of university, but the degree itself is nothing to me except a VERY expensive piece of paper.

so you think you will be a millionaire with a hot wife let's see .. in 10 years?

i doubt that very seriously

 

[Jariel]

so you think you will be a millionaire with a hot wife let's see .. in 10 years?

i doubt that very seriously