I had a flirt session the other day. Ran into her again today. What to make of her behavior?

[GoodMan32]

There is self-esteem damage that comes with taking rejections. At a certain point, if a man takes enough rejections without any successes, then he's going to dislike asking women to go on dates. My sense is that your self-esteem is in the toilet from too many rejections with little to no success.

Indeed.

I've only ever had one success from making a move on a woman.

Obviously I've had other "successes" too (I've mentioned on posts that I've had 9 non-escort sex partners...and have gone on dates with several gals)

But I don't "count" the vast majority of those as successes (for the purpose of calculating my rejection rate at least)...because all my other "successes" came from either tech methods, the woman making the move on me, or instances that just sort of happened (with neither party officially making the move)

I'm glad you acknowledge the fact a man will dislike asking a woman out if he takes too many rejections with little to no success. Most posters don't seem to understand that. Hell, the idea has even been floated on this forum that a man gets over his aversion to rejection by getting rejected a lot (the total opposite is true in my experience)

 

[SW15]

I'm glad you acknowledge the fact a man will dislike asking a woman out if he takes too many rejections with little to no success. Most posters don't seem to understand that. Hell, the idea has even been floated on this forum that a man gets over his aversion to rejection by getting rejected a lot (the total opposite is true in my experience)

Getting rejected a lot does take its toll.

There's a bit of failure involved in approaching strangers. Ideally, the rejections/failures are learning experiences. They might lead to some personal growth in terms of looks, money, status, and personality.

Getting rejected without making adjustments or having personal growth from rejections/failed early stage dates is not going to be beneficial.

 

[characternote]

Ideally, the rejections/failures are learning experiences.

I think unless you are extremely odd then typically there's nothing to 'learn' from a rejection other than, You just weren't her type.
A different opener or transition or some gamey technique is basically never gonna drastically change teh interaction in a 'groundhog day' situation where you get to make the same exact approach again

 

[SW15]

I think unless you are extremely odd then typically there's nothing to 'learn' from a rejection other than, You just weren't her type.

I am able to identify with your point. I think your idea has some truth to it. I don't think it is the entire reality.

There are lessons that can be learned from failed stranger approaches that lead to rejections.

Rejections on approaches can happen for many reasons.

Not being her type is one general reason. A man might also be approaching too many of the wrong women. He might be interacting with too many women with boyfriends who aren't interested in a new penis. However, even women with boyfriends are open to monkey branching if the deal offered by the next guy is better than what she has with her boyfriend. In practice, this is difficult to achieve, especially in a 3-10 minute initial conversation off of an approach in a nightlife venue or non-bar venue.

Daygame is difficult because of its randomness and a lot of women will have boyfriends (or even husbands if the man picks bad venues) and it won't lead to anything.

I rarely ever get IHAB'ed but beginner approachers are known to get IHAB'ed on a regular basis. For those unfamiliar, IHAB - I Have a Boyfriend.

A man might be approaching too many women who are too good looking for him. If a man is mid-tier in looks and he's only approaching women who are 8.5+ in looks, this isn't going to go well unless he has enough money, status, or personality to make up the difference. Usually, those factors aren't present.

There are men also choosing the wrong venues for approach. They might be going to supermarkets in neighborhoods with more married/attached women and they might be better off going to a supermarket in an area with more unattached people. There are countless other examples like this.

After doing some approaches, a man might realize he needs to take a few months off, improve his muscle size in the gym, and then start re-approaching.

I think the more difficult scenario to fix is a scenario where a man is getting a lot of early stage dates but the dates are all failing. He's having the 1-2 dates, no sex, no extended relationship scenario.

A different opener or transition or some gamey technique is basically never gonna drastically change teh interaction in a 'groundhog day' situation where you get to make the same exact approach again

Openers can matter, but looks matter more. Good looks and a weak opener might work in some situations.

Wheat Waffles analyzed the recorded field approaches of a Sub 5 in looks vs. approaches from an above average/borderline top tier guy in looks. Both had what I would consider weaker verbal game. The way women reacted to their weaker verbal games differed a lot based on looks. The Sub 5 got treated far worse by women.

 

[GoodMan32]

Getting rejected a lot does take its toll.

There's a bit of failure involved in approaching strangers. Ideally, the rejections/failures are learning experiences. They might lead to some personal growth in terms of looks, money, status, and personality.

Getting rejected without making adjustments or having personal growth from rejections/failed early stage dates is not going to be beneficial.

Some of my approaches have been on total strangers (like the phase I went through where I'd ask total strangers for sex)

Some of my approaches have been on gals I already knew on varying levels.

Here's my core problem: Other than rare exceptions like @BeExcellent's husband, the vast majority of the female population will never find an autist sexually exciting.

In other words, I'm destined to fail...thanks to a condition that's beyond my control.

That would explain why a lot of the non-escort sex I've had came from Craigslist gals who didn't have a chance to get to know me (some of the Craigslist gals quite literally drove to my apartment for sex after exchanging only a few messages on Craigslist)

It would also explain my high rejection rate on in-person approaches, as well as the fact it's rare for a woman to remain into me for long (whether we met in person or online)

I'd probably have better luck with the ladies if I were ugly but neurotypical.

 

[GoodMan32]

I am able to identify with your point. I think your idea has some truth to it. I don't think it is the entire reality.

There are lessons that can be learned from failed stranger approaches that lead to rejections.

Rejections on approaches can happen for many reasons.

Not being her type is one general reason. A man might also be approaching too many of the wrong women. He might be interacting with too many women with boyfriends who aren't interested in a new penis. However, even women with boyfriends are open to monkey branching if the deal offered by the next guy is better than what she has with her boyfriend. In practice, this is difficult to achieve, especially in a 3-10 minute initial conversation off of an approach in a nightlife venue or non-bar venue.

Daygame is difficult because of its randomness and a lot of women will have boyfriends (or even husbands if the man picks bad venues) and it won't lead to anything.

I rarely ever get IHAB'ed but beginner approachers are known to get IHAB'ed on a regular basis. For those unfamiliar, IHAB - I Have a Boyfriend.

A man might be approaching too many women who are too good looking for him. If a man is mid-tier in looks and he's only approaching women who are 8.5+ in looks, this isn't going to go well unless he has enough money, status, or personality to make up the difference. Usually, those factors aren't present.

There are men also choosing the wrong venues for approach. They might be going to supermarkets in neighborhoods with more married/attached women and they might be better off going to a supermarket in an area with more unattached people. There are countless other examples like this.

After doing some approaches, a man might realize he needs to take a few months off, improve his muscle size in the gym, and then start re-approaching.

I think the more difficult scenario to fix is a scenario where a man is getting a lot of early stage dates but the dates are all failing. He's having the 1-2 dates, no sex, no extended relationship scenario.



Openers can matter, but looks matter more. Good looks and a weak opener might work in some situations.

Wheat Waffles analyzed the recorded field approaches of a Sub 5 in looks vs. approaches from an above average/borderline top tier guy in looks. Both had what I would consider weaker verbal game. The way women reacted to their weaker verbal games differed a lot based on looks. The Sub 5 got treated far worse by women.

Your post mentioned the fact some gals are willing to cheat on a boyfriend. What I'm going to say next ties in with the topic.

As I said on my last post, I had some Craigslist gals drive straight to my apartment for sex after exchanging only a few messages on Craigslist.

Some had a more lengthy exchange with me before coming over (but still didn't fully get to know me)

Here's a plot twist: The 2 gals who came straight to my apartment after only a few messages had boyfriends (one girl was even an amateur model; the other one had good looks too). They were 22 and 24.

It amazes me that 2 good-looking girls became convinced to cheat on their boyfriend with me simply from seeing my Craigslist ad/exchanging a few messages with me, yet I can't get same-day sex from an in-person approach if my life depended on it.

As for the video, I'm proof that a man can be above average in looks yet still get treated poorly by the ladies he expresses interest in.

 

[SW15]

the vast majority of the female population will never find an autist sexually exciting.

I'm destined to fail...thanks to a condition that's beyond my control.

Your biggest problems are on the personality side of looks, money, status, and personality. However, you also have significant problems on looks, money, and status too.

The good news on a personality problem is that personality is less important than looks, money, or status.

You haven't done enough on looks, money, and status to offset your personality issues. You also have done a poor job managing your personality conditions in addition to receiving subpar psychological treatment. Part of that is on you, while part of it is on the psychotherapists that have treated you. Those psychotherapists are an embarrassment to the profession based on their work with you.

You got dealt a bad hand. Everyone who participates on this forum and has tried to help you gets it. However, you haven't done the things you can do in order to improve your situation.

Your chest and shoulders are not absolutely shredded. Overall, on physique, you would need to be top tier to offset your personality issues. You should be at a gym lifting weights at least 5 days a week unless you get big.

If an autist who had taken some management efforts to manage autism had 12-15% body fat, nice defined muscles, worked as a bouncer at a strip club/regular nightclub because he also knew how to fight (Boxing, martial arts, or MMA), and rode a motorcycle, he would be getting pussie. He'd also be getting pussie from strippers and hot female bartenders. Looks > Personality

You do have to fix your mindset issues too as @BackInTheGame78 and @Gamisch have told you multiple times.

As you yourself have said, your problems go beyond mere autism.

my struggles with the ladies go way beyond mere social awkwardness

I was having a DM discussion with another member where I mentioned how my struggles with the ladies go beyond mere social awkwardness/ASD. Come to think of it, I suppose the topic warrants its own thread. In addition to my ASD/social awkwardness, there are many other factors working against me...

www.sosuave.net

ugly but neurotypical.

How ugly? Attraction and seduction is based on looks, money, status, and personality. Being ugly means you are doing poorly in the most important category.

You are in a better positioned that someone who has been physically disfigured. You are better positioned than a homeless man.

 

[GoodMan32]

Your biggest problems are on the personality side of looks, money, status, and personality. However, you also have significant problems on looks, money, and status too.

The good news on a personality problem is that personality is less important than looks, money, or status.

You haven't done enough on looks, money, and status to offset your personality issues. You also have done a poor job managing your personality conditions in addition to receiving subpar psychological treatment. Part of that is on you, while part of it is on the psychotherapists that have treated you. Those psychotherapists are an embarrassment to the profession based on their work with you.

You got dealt a bad hand. Everyone who participates on this forum and has tried to help you gets it. However, you haven't done the things you can do in order to improve your situation.

Your chest and shoulders are not absolutely shredded. Overall, on physique, you would need to be top tier to offset your personality issues. You should be at a gym lifting weights at least 5 days a week unless you get big.

If an autist who had taken some management efforts to manage autism had 12-15% body fat, nice defined muscles, worked as a bouncer at a strip club/regular nightclub because he also knew how to fight (Boxing, martial arts, or MMA), and rode a motorcycle, he would be getting pussie. He'd also be getting pussie from strippers and hot female bartenders. Looks > Personality

You do have to fix your mindset issues too as @BackInTheGame78 and @Gamisch have told you multiple times.

As you yourself have said, your problems go beyond mere autism.

my struggles with the ladies go way beyond mere social awkwardness

I was having a DM discussion with another member where I mentioned how my struggles with the ladies go beyond mere social awkwardness/ASD. Come to think of it, I suppose the topic warrants its own thread. In addition to my ASD/social awkwardness, there are many other factors working against me...

www.sosuave.net

How ugly? Attraction and seduction is based on looks, money, status, and personality. Being ugly means you are doing poorly in the most important category.

You are in a better positioned that someone who has been physically disfigured. You are better positioned than a homeless man.

An autist can maybe get muscular if they work out enough, yeah. Overall, however, your hypothetical autist you described is unrealistic.

A night club is a miserable environment for an autist. No way would an autist want to work at one. Additionally, even if an autist is big, we lack the inner qualities that make a guy a good fighter.

My therapists were a joke, I agree. One therapist's solution to my fear of rejection? To simply accept that I might get rejected (yet any time I shared stories about how I developed my fear of rejection, she dismissed the stories with "thanks for sharing")

She also suggested my problem in attracting a woman might solve itself if I develop a social circle (I disagree. I had somewhat of a social circle in college, yet I had to use tech methods to get laid in college)

The male therapist wasn't much different. He basically just told me "If you're into a woman, come onto her. If you get rejected, so be it"

As for your question of how ugly (when I say I might have better luck with the ladies if I were ugly but neurotypical), I'm bad at rating men on a 1-10 scale. All I know is I've known neurotypical below average men (looks-wise) who have done well with the ladies.

I'm convinced I'm above average facially by the way, even if I don't have a football player body.

 

[SW15]

If an autist who had taken some management efforts to manage autism had 12-15% body fat, nice defined muscles, worked as a bouncer at a strip club/regular nightclub because he also knew how to fight (Boxing, martial arts, or MMA), and rode a motorcycle, he would be getting pussie. He'd also be getting pussie from strippers and hot female bartenders. Looks > Personality

An autist can maybe get muscular if they work out enough, yeah.

The muscles and the helpful mental therapy are the most important parts of that description. Then the motorcycle. The other stuff isn't as important.

Rollo Tomassi has said the following quote many times "Muscles, money, and game"

Get big muscles throughout your body. Muscles and mental health therapy are what you need.

Planet Fitness has $15 a month memberships. Though that's a subpar gym, you could make progress there. 24 Hour Fitness and LA Fitness are better chain gyms and their costs are reasonable.

She also suggested my problem in attracting a woman might solve itself if I develop a social circle (I disagree. I had somewhat of a social circle in college, yet I had to use tech methods to get laid in college)

She wasn't necessarily wrong but she also probably didn't help you with getting the tools to do it.

It is true that social circle is great for getting a girlfriend for the men with fortunate enough situations in life to have them. Pay close attention to the words "a girlfriend". That means one girlfriend. If you're looking for an extended relationship (2-5 years or more), your best bet for getting that with the least amount of grief and frustration is social circle. Many men who get social circle girlfriends tend to retain those girlfriends for a long time and often beyond the useful life of the relationship. A lot of the social circle girlfriend guys are beta males and beta males operate from a scarcity mindset. It's common to see a 10 year+ relationship from social circle which does lead to a marriage proposal.

For men with social circles, the problem with the social circle method eventually becomes sustainability as social circles get pissed at men who continually exchange girlfriends, even if the relationships are semi-long (1-4 years). The behavior described in the last sentence is serial monogamy, so it is accurate to say that social circles get pissed off at serial monogamists. It is important to remember that social circles generally have a blue pill viewpoint on romantic relationships. A man might be able to pull 2 LTRs from a social circle without marrying one. After 2 instances, he will have typically bled the social circle dry. Then again, a lot of the beta males who use social circle game aren't interested in serial monogamy and believe in the idea of a sustainable, happier marriage.

The last 2 paragraphs are likely more advanced than where you are at right now, though you have had issues with retaining women you've had sex with in the past.

 

[BeExcellent]

Everyone here has tried to help you. I concur with @SW15 and his synopsis. Quit comparing yourself to others, quit complaining.

Plenty of men on the spectrum get married and have relationships.

You are big on excuses and refuse to act. That responsibility lies with you.

My husband does not parade around his nuerodiverse nature. He makes great effort to improve himself, be successful, articulate and attractive. You need to act as the forum has advised you repeatedly.