I can't get past expecting women to live by principle.

[Atom Smasher]

Hey guys,

I'm noticing more and more that I am having a very hard time respecting women because they are not expected to live by principle. When I deal with a man I respect him for keeping his word, answering questions directly, and living by a code of ethics.

I look at women and see that they seem to be the antithesis of this. I can't help but think that this is a relatively new (30 years or so) phenomenon.

I can't tell you how it pisses me off when I ask a woman a question and she dances around it in vagaries. Or the classic of calling her on her sh!t and seeing her deflect blame to me or someone else. They seem to be utterly, completely incapable of a rational conversation when it comes to conflict, and also completely incapable of taking responsibility for her actions.

To me this demonstrates a lack of character and moral fiber.

Obviously all my life I've been expecting women to show the same "live by principal" traits that most well-rounded men show (or at least aspire to), and I have been searching in vain for the one who can demonstrate this.

So how can I resolve this in my mind? I despise seeing a person deflect responsibility, assign blame, and dance around questions, and yet it seems that this is standard procedure for women. I feel like I am dealing with children. Even the 50 year old kindergarten teacher I'm speaking with by phone and will meet this week, shows these signs (like me, she is a super-young looking 50).

I need to find a way to respect women and like them for what they are, but so far I haven't been able to. They just seem to be lacking in character and morals (not referring to s3x here), and I can't find a way to resolve this conflict in my mind. Help me out, guys. I need some kind of attitude adjustment, but I am clueless as to how to fix this.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Iceberg]

A) It's not a relatively new phenomenon. Women are the same creatures they were since the beginning of time. So are we.

B) Code of ethics, principles, honor, etc. That's all men stuff. When you understand that women are different animals than men, you'll let go of this expectation of women having the same code as you.

They're different than us. Smarter men than you or I have spent their lives trying to figure out why. I suggest that you just accept it, and stop wondering. Wondering about why women don't have your same code of honor is like wondering why whales live in the ocean. It's because god (whatever god you believe in) made them that way. The end.

 

[Sir Psycho Sexy]

ummm two things here that I want to say but you will probably brush them aside.

1. Your morals are different from my morals which are different from the next guys morals. You cant say that your morals are right and mine are wrong. You have to respect the fact that others will have different morals.

2. Its not just women who have different morals from you, plenty of men in this world have what you would consider "bad" morals just as there are plenty of women who you would consider to have "good" morals. You cant honestly think that all women have this problem.

So dont limit your lack of respect to just women. Include the men too. Make it something that all people have to earn from you.


ps. I would fvck you over in a second if it meant I got a leg up in life. Thats the code I live by.

 

[Atom Smasher]

A) It's not a relatively new phenomenon. Women are the same creatures they were since the beginning of time. So are we.

B) Code of ethics, principles, honor, etc. That's all men stuff. When you understand that women are different animals than men, you'll let go of this expectation of women having the same code as you.

They're different than us. Smarter men than you or I have spent their lives trying to figure out why. I suggest that you just accept it, and stop wondering. Wondering about why women don't have your same code of honor is like wondering why whales live in the ocean. It's because god (whatever god you believe in) made them that way. The end.

Iceberg,
I should have more clearly articulated that it seems that society's complete abandonment of requiring any kind of accountability out of them is relatively new. Of course their natures are exactly the same from the beginning of time, but any semblance of the requirement of accountability is dead.

Secondly, you are completely misreading my post. I'm not wondering why they are that way. I'm asking how I can get over my problem of having difficulty respecting them given their lack of the ability to live by principal.

 

[jophil28]

Women and their principles

Hey guys,

I'm noticing more and more that I am having a very hard time respecting women because they are not expected to live by principle. When I deal with a man I respect him for keeping his word, answering questions directly, and living by a code of ethics.

I look at women and see that they seem to be the antithesis of this. I can't help but think that this is a relatively new (30 years or so) phenomenon.

I can't tell you how it pisses me off when I ask a woman a question and she dances around it in vagaries. Or the classic of calling her on her sh!t and seeing her deflect blame to me or someone else. They seem to be utterly, completely incapable of a rational conversation when it comes to conflict, and also completely incapable of taking responsibility for her actions.

To me this demonstrates a lack of character and moral fiber.

Obviously all my life I've been expecting women to show the same "live by principal" traits that most well-rounded men show (or at least aspire to), and I have been searching in vain for the one who can demonstrate this.

So how can I resolve this in my mind? I despise seeing a person deflect responsibility, assign blame, and dance around questions, and yet it seems that this is standard procedure for women. I feel like I am dealing with children. Even the 50 year old kindergarten teacher I'm speaking with by phone and will meet this week, shows these signs (like me, she is a super-young looking 50).

I need to find a way to respect women and like them for what they are, but so far I haven't been able to. They just seem to be lacking in character and morals (not referring to s3x here), and I can't find a way to resolve this conflict in my mind. Help me out, guys. I need some kind of attitude adjustment, but I am clueless as to how to fix this.

Thanks in advance.

You might want to try posting this on the Mature Man Forum.

 

[jophil28]

Iceberg,
I should have more clearly articulated that it seems that society's complete abandonment of requiring any kind of accountability out of them is relatively new. Of course their natures are exactly the same from the beginning of time, but any semblance of the requirement of accountability is dead.
.

I have noticed that exact same trend in the past 30 years.
It bothers me as well.

 

[Atom Smasher]

Sir Psycho,
My original post is nuanced beyond your comprehension, and that's why you're hanging on the word, "morals". I know you're only 19, so I'll cut you some slack. If you want to contribute intelligently to this thread, go back and read what I'm actually saying.

Because I'm such a kind man I will respond to one statement you made. My original post implies that I respect those qualities when they are present in a man, and naturally the lack of those qualities would cause me to have zero respect for that man.

Your stated code by which you live is a recipe for either a greatly shortened life or some extraordinarily painful life lessons. When a kid adopts that attitude he is certain to experience massive hardship as life has a way of paying back tenfold on that stuff. I know I'm lecturing a little here but if I can plant a seed that others can water in order to help you avoid that pain, it will be worth your derision.

 

[Atom Smasher]

Jophil, I'm smacking myself in the forehead. You're absolutely right. Will the mods move it for me?

Mods, would you please move this to Mature Man ASAP?

Thanks, jophil. I appreciate the heads-up.

 

[Desert Fox]

So dont limit your lack of respect to just women. Include the men too. Make it something that all people have to earn from you.

ps. I would fvck you over in a second if it meant I got a leg up in life. Thats the code I live by.

I like this guy, especially what he said up there. Very good and realistic view of life. He will go far. You people wonder why you live life day to day looking around, pining for other's attention. What is the alpha male? He's the guy that doesn't give a sh1t about you. You are insignificant. Until you earn his attention, his respect. So you do funny sh1t, try to say something funny to girls to get the mto like you...to respect you. Yeah, keep doing that. But what you should do is start off on the high ground. Everyone else is nothing, they have to earn every minute of your time.

hmm and just to add some stuff on what atom said.

Play hard ball, but play it smart. You don't go out guns blazing yelling "I HAVE NO MORALS I THINK You're all ****s!!!!"
you gotta go sam fischer on them.

 

[Kailex]

I wonder if this isn't due to the shift in several factors, namely, the mass inclusion of women within the general workforce.

I am two generations removed from a traditional hispanic family, where the male would wear the pants and the belt, work the steady job in order to get his retirement after 30 years, while the wife stayed at home, raised the family and tended to the garden.

The only principle back then was to stand by your man and your family.

Now that women have made their way into the workforce and priorities have changed, it seems like they are less apt to live by principle because most of them can get by on looks.

Nowadays, I hear a lot of women spouting out at my job, specifically the single ones: Oh yeah, every relationship needs to be 50-50 to work.

And then these are the same women, that once they have found said relationship, are trying to work the 50-50 out to be 80-20 in their favor.

I know I am only 29, but based on many conversations with some of my older family members, I can understand where you are coming from. The difference between my grandmother's generation, my mother's generation and now my own, seems to be a huge gap as wide as the Grand Canyon.

 

[Zarky]

There is absolutely nothing "mature" about a self-righteous poster who has such a lack of self-insight that he complains about how all women are immoral and talks down to a 19 year old who is ten times wiser than he.

 

[CuriousGirl]

Iceberg,
I should have more clearly articulated that it seems that society's complete abandonment of requiring any kind of accountability out of them is relatively new. Of course their natures are exactly the same from the beginning of time, but any semblance of the requirement of accountability is dead.

Secondly, you are completely misreading my post. I'm not wondering why they are that way. I'm asking how I can get over my problem of having difficulty respecting them given their lack of the ability to live by principal.

I think your problem is that you are grouping all women together in this one, whereas you've clearly stated that you recognise that men differ, some you respect and some you don't because of it. Women differ too. So why do you generalise all women and throw them all into one category when you haven't met every woman? Yet you don't do the same for men, when you haven't met every man?

This is how you're coming across to me and I suspect to others too, so I agree with SPS. Although not his ps at the end, that's not nice. But I admire his frankness and openess about it.

 

[Iceberg]

You might want to try posting this on the Mature Man Forum.

Sure, the person asking it is a little older, but whats so "mature" about his question?

He said he, "needs to find a way to respect women and like them for what they are, but so far hasn't been able to."

Seems like the obvious answer is that there are plenty of crappy dating partners out there, and you just have to weed out the "dishonorable" ones early. There's not any psychological advice you can give a person on that. He's making a broad generalization based on his own personal experiences.

Stop expecting every woman you date to have your morals and standards, and then you'll stop being angry at womankind. Maybe 20% of the girls I date fit my standards of being relationship-worthy. It doesn't make me look down upon the 80% who aren't. Those girls just aren't my type. Maybe they'll be someone else's type.

Sorry, I just don't subscribe to these "Good old days" theories. People are people. If things have changed, it's because we have time to focus on our personal goals these days, as opposed to the "good old days" where surviving was the goal.

 

[Sir Psycho Sexy]

two things here that I want to say but you will probably brush them aside.

lol...^

They just seem to be lacking in character and morals

^This sums up your entire thread. They (as in women) seem to be lacking in character and morals. Character meaning someones opinions, thoughts and experiences in the most basic definition. I was "hung" up on morals because thats what your "hung" up on.

Maybe I should remove my age from view if its going to be the cause me to be "unqualified" to answer your question? Or change it to 52 years old so I come off as really "wise"

And of course you disagree with what I referred to as my code(lol). Can you not tell we are two very different people? Your one of those men who believes "what comes around goes around" and "Ill get whats coming to me." Im just another young punk to you.
I look out for no one but my friends and family. I owe nothing to everyone else in this world. Everyone has hardships in their life, I just have a cut throat attitude so I can enjoy life to to fullest.

***The funny thing is I guarantee if you met me on the streets some day you would leave the conversation thinking im a very respectable young man. Its harder to see what people believe in than what you think. You cant just have a few conversations with someone and walk away knowing their "character and morals". Peoples principles are not displayed for the public eye.

You act as if it is an impossible task, to find a women you can respect. But is it really a shock that more often that not your not compatible with someone's personality? You dont have to change your attitude toward women, continue to dislike the ones you dislike(the majority of them). And like the select few that you happen to match up with.

At least you seem to have a grasp on self-awareness...

 

[Ease]

Reminds me of the scene in Twins, where arnold schwarzenegger says about how he finds women to be sensitive and wonderful creatures and that he respects them completely, and Devito turns around and says 'oh...your a virgin!'

I dont think this is a new phenomenon. Feminism is new, but men successful with women have known forever that b'tches aint ****. Old school hip hop knew it from day 1 back in the 80's, and it hasnt changed. Nothing but hoes and tricks.

I think you expect too much from women. We know the truth and have seen it for ourselves how women act and their nature. There are things you can share and cant share. Their loyalty is as strong as their emotional attraction to you.

Even then, you dont trust a man 100% either.

 

[thedude4242]

women might be controlling the dating scene more but every year another women becomes 25 and she is still single while another women becomes 30 and is not married. after a women is 25 and she goes to a wedding or a friends wedding is does mess with her because she is not married. so they can continue to do what they do but they are not doing much to help themselves.

 

[DonGorgon]

yeh i do that also i expect them to be rational especially the very educated ones.. but nope its the same BS until their estrogen levels start to drop ion their 60s...lol but by then its too damn late

 

[Maximus Rex]

Your problem is that your taking women entirely too seriously. How are you as a man going to take women seriously and hold them to the same standard you would a man when women don't take themselves seriously and cherry pick when the what equity?

 

[sodbuster]

SPS-at 19, you can THINK you'll screw me over if it gives you a leg up. What you may not realize is I could be testing you and "you'll never hear the shot that kills you"[or the line in the contract thats a dagger in your heart when you try to stab us in the back].That may work with the young and dumb,but at a certain level, we've seen/done it all. SO when you try to break into our level with that lame sh1t we'll bury you.

 

[Atom Smasher]

Sure, the person asking it is a little older, but whats so "mature" about his question?

He said he, "needs to find a way to respect women and like them for what they are, but so far hasn't been able to."

Seems like the obvious answer is that there are plenty of crappy dating partners out there, and you just have to weed out the "dishonorable" ones early. There's not any psychological advice you can give a person on that. He's making a broad generalization based on his own personal experiences.

Stop expecting every woman you date to have your morals and standards, and then you'll stop being angry at womankind. Maybe 20% of the girls I date fit my standards of being relationship-worthy. It doesn't make me look down upon the 80% who aren't. Those girls just aren't my type. Maybe they'll be someone else's type.

Sorry, I just don't subscribe to these "Good old days" theories. People are people. If things have changed, it's because we have time to focus on our personal goals these days, as opposed to the "good old days" where surviving was the goal.

Iceberg,
You were born into the current social climate. You have a different historical perspective than I because you haven't lived through it. I have. I can catagorically state that 30 to 40 years ago society required those traits from men AND women. This is no longer the case.

The fact is that I HAVE been expecting women to display morals and standards, which I define as honesty and accountability and other character traits that society generally agrees are positive and worthy of respect. I feel these are reasonable qualities to expect in a woman, but in today's world these qualities have become close to extinct because these qualities are no longer expected of them.

And weakling men all chant in unison, "That's just the way it is..." That's the way it is because most men are too p_ussified to demand respect and the display of character from women in general. Even the better ones display these socially sanctioned traits (inability to be accountable, inability to distinguish truth from lies, inability to think with any degree of rationality).

I can also tell you that decades ago women most certainly were able to think with a degree of rationality, although of course that was still tempered by their female psyches. Still, this forum and hundreds like it exist because hundreds of thousands if not millions of men are completely baffled by society's systematic dismantling of female accountability.

The phenomenon exists, and it is far different than it was only a few decades ago.