I am tired of blackpillers and anti-self improvement guys on here

[CollegeMan22]

This forum is becoming more and more blackpill. People are using the terms normie, chadlite, and chad seriously. I sense a large amount of apathy and disillusionment in the people who use these terms. They feel that they are confined to a certain league, defined by their looks, and are condemned to stay there. Approaching becomes pointless because no girls will respond.

This mentality was not in the PUA community in its heyday. When you read Roosh, Strauss, and especially Pook, you feel excited. You hear cool stories and you get pumped to try the tactics yourself. You may have once sucked with women, but writers like those above give you a spark to take action and approach. They remind you that you will fail, but that eventually — sometime — you will succeed.

It is from this inspiration that I began my PUA journey. I was excited — though very nervous — to learn how to get girls. These guys told me how to approach. They gave me a plan for action. I came into college and started applying. I failed a ton, and didn’t work up enough confidence to approach time after time, but I had a goal in my mind so I kept going.

These OG PUA guys weren’t against improving your looks. No, not at all. Pook’s article on gaining muscle mass inspired me to lift:

What every skinny guy should know…

High rates of testosterone affects not only your actions, I believe women can sniff it out. So take a guy, stuffed with testosterone, and push him into a room full of lovely young ladies. He doesn’t speak a word. He won’t have to. The women will go to him automatically.

bookofpook.com

But they didn’t tell me that I couldn’t approach if I didn’t have X muscles, Y veins, and Z height. There were no thresholds, no requirements. I just had to put the work in and eventually I would succeed. Yes, I had to improve myself as a man, but that was what I should be doing for myself anyways. I didn’t have to rate myself out of 10 every time I go out to “match” myself with an equal rating girl. Who wants to do that?

The above PUA authors helped me out greatly. I am having a blast at my college. I have two plates I bang every week now and not a year ago I hadn’t even kissed a girl. I’ve gained a good 40 pounds of muscle mass and can now bench 300 lbs max.

One of my biggest inspirations was these PUA guys, especially Pook. They have an excitement in their writing that makes you want to emulate them. It gives you a drive to see other guys’ success. You want to be like them. So you set to work, improve yourself and overcome your fears.

I just don’t see this enthusiastic mindset here much. There is much more complaining about the state of women in general, with the subtext being they are not even worth approaching anymore. Nothing is worth it, so the mentality goes.

Screw that. I don’t like this blackpill trend. Literally 99/100 guys aren’t approaching at all. They have no idea what their potential is. They don’t even know how to talk to girls, because they haven’t. I want these men to find sparks of inspiration, not endless moaning and groaning.

I tell some of my college friends my adventures with women, and they’re always amazed. Not many people do this stuff — and other guys think it’s pretty inspiring and cool. Why drive them off by being blackpill and against any sort of improvement? Instead drive them forward, to greener pastures!

I hope this blackpill trend changes and we can inspire more men through this forum.

 

[Stanley]

You're right on the money man.

All pills aside (lol), I think we need to spend less time getting hung up on a lot of things that guys post about, victim mentality being the biggest one I see. I think the vernacular has its purpose, but it gets to a point where we start speaking a language which sounds foreign to others. That said looking at his board from early to mid 2010's we see dudes straight talking about women like its algebra, it comes in goes in waves.

I abhor black pill sentiments at large, but I admit they are right about some things, but their views are dystopian and narrow. They don't understand that their largest enemy in their success with women is their own self limiting beliefs. Most have not even tried, they give up once a challenge is presented and fail to rise to the occasion. They then blame their genetics and things outside of their control and hop aboard the "woe is me trend". They often have standards that are far above what they really are and because they don't achieve what they believe they are entitled to so they become bitter and bring others down with em.

Crabs in a bucket

 

[corrector]

Too bad, it's a free country and everyone's entitled to their opinion.

I've noticed from the post that you sound like you are from gen-Z and what's missing on your post is the fact that college is a target rich environment. When I was in college in the 90s, there was no PUA, Roosh, Strauss, Pook or any of these things. When I first saw that stuff it was in the mid 00s. Did I try in the 00s? Of course I did. However, you also felt more encouraged to try compared to today. People were not banned en-mass from approaches compared to today. You did not have the #Me-Too movement making even approaches at work riskier. Women were not as hooked up on social media and dating apps.

What I'm trying to figure out from the OP is why is blackpill an issue here? Did you not read the other posts recently made where people have said they would literally be incel if they did not have access to dating apps. Or threads where posters are now lost and don't feel like doing approaches because of the success they had on dating apps and it's hard to cold approach? What do you have to say about that? Doesn't THAT sound like you have two tiers of guys here, and if you don't have the looks for dating apps to work for you then you are basically screwed. People who are succcessful and have the looks have admitted they too would be screwed too if they didn't have access to dating apps? That tells me, that if dating apps don't work for you, even Chad/Chadlites don't want to cold approach, then why would a Sub-8 Normie want to and experience even more brutal rejections?

If you are in college then you don't need dating apps you can apply game or whatever, and it's easier to meet people. In the 90s, I had allot of girl's phone numbers. I may not have done anything with them, but when you are young and in college then of course it's easier to meet women there because you are both in college. When you are outside of college then how do you meet women then? If chad/chadlites are saying they are lost or screwed without dating apps then how does that make Sub-8s feel comfortable especialy if they know that cold approach will work even worst for them?

I'm not even parroting points from other content creators. I'm bringing up posts of other people on here.

 

[LiveYourDream]

I think it would be helpful to create one or more sub-forums.

Give the Black Pillers their own designated space. If they get off on their perspective then let them do that with each other, outside the main forum threads. Let the distinction in perspectives be made more clear that way. And allow mods to move posts there. In the process I think it might help some of the black pillers to see how far their perspectives have shifted. For the well known Black Pillers who consciously expect to always identify as Black Pill, then they’d have a designated space to spout their black pill thoughts to themselves or anyone who is curious to go see.

I think moving Black Pill content off the main threads would allow the positive influence of SS to resurface and hopefully expand again.

On a different note, I also think a trying out a distinct sub-forum for Red Pill Men in LTR’s, could create a positive space, for more discussions and support, for the many men here who have chosen to LTR and even get married. There are many here. I imagine there would be more shared in the topic, if there was welcome space to do so, that is more separate from those always seeking to get and spin more plates.

And then maybe a subform for the few MGTOW’s that are consciously choosing that as their personal lifestyle moving forward.

All Possibilities…

At the very least, imho please at least redirect the Black Pill content off the main threads and into a sub-forum, if need be, so the main sub-forums and threads can become an encouraging place for SS men again.

 

[sangheilios]

Not sure if you are aware of this, but most of these pickup artists and what they talk or write about is all just a bunch of nonsense rolled up in a package that can be sold to men who are looking to figure out why they aren't experiencing the dating lives they want. Something else you should consider is that the "success" they boast about is again a false image they create as a marketing tactic so they can sell you a narrative. Think of it like all of those people who flaunt everything about their lives on instagram or any other social media platform. Half the **** you are seeing is completely artificial and the other half is intentionally selected for in order to make things appear better than they actually are lol.

Here is the thing, if reading **** from these pickup scam artists makes you feel better about yourself or motivates you to play in the game it clearly has been a positive thing in your life.

As for all the black pill, red pill stuff. There is a lot of truth to what you see in those sub followings and many men naturally gravitate towards it, though they probably aren't even aware of it. The overall dating market was trash for quite a while and the pandemic honestly changed things for the worse. There are tons of stats that are showing a very concerning trend, which is sexlessness in young men is a rapidly growing issue. There are multiple factors at play here, but this has many very bad consequences that can affect society as a whole. When a large percentage of young men feel that nothing they do is good enough for even a first date, let alone a relationship, how do you think that will affect them and their view on things? It's naturally going to lead to young men who put very little effort into dating, possibly even giving up. However, I also believe that this also leads to men checking out from society and putting less effort as a whole. Whether you agree with this or not, these are very real issues right here and now that are not going away anytime soon and they will have a broader impact on society as a whole.

 

[BadBoy89]

- The above PUA authors helped me out greatly. I am having a blast at my college.
- I have two plates I bang every week now and not a year ago I hadn’t even kissed a girl.
-I’ve gained a good 40 pounds of muscle mass and can now bench 300 lbs max.
- I just don’t see this enthusiastic mindset here much. There is much more complaining about the state of women in general,
- I don’t like this blackpill trend. Literally 99/100 guys aren’t approaching at all. They have no idea what their potential is.
-I tell some of my college friends my adventures with women, and they’re always amazed.
-I hope this blackpill trend changes and we can inspire more men through this forum.

If you are ripped and getting laid twice a week by 2 different college girls, why do you care?

If your College friends are “amazed” at your skills, why don‘t you help them first and then help the men here?

You haven’t offered anything to help, you have just said “I get laid easy, I’m ripped, don’t complain.”

 

[sangheilios]

I think it would be helpful to create one or more sub-forums. Give the Black Pillers their own designated space. If they get off on their perspective then let them do that with each other, outside the main forum threads. Let the distinction in perspectives be made more clear that way. And allow mods to move posts there. In the process I think it might help some of the black pillers to see how far their perspectives have shifted. Of course there are the well known who consciously expect to always identify as Black Pill.

I think moving Black Pill content off the main threads would allow the positive influence of SS to resurface and expand again.

On a different note, I also think a distinct sub-forum for Red Pill Men in LTR’s, could create a positive space, for more discussions and support, for the many men here who have chosen to LTR and even get married. I imagine there would be more on the topic shared, if there was space separate from those always aiming to get and spin more plates.

And then maybe a subform for the few MGTOW’s that are consciously choosing that as their personal lifestyle moving forward.

Possibilities…

Men that are posting on here are not players, Don Juans, pimps, etc. Men that are going to find sites like this are those who are having issues with the opposite sex, whether that be relationships, dating, etc. These men are NOT in a good place with women and are looking to get a deeper insight into the issues they are having. This could be a million different things, so I'm not going to elaborate on those intricate details. If a man was doing well in his dating life, do you think he would be researching **** about "game" or other nonsense? That is part of the reason why you might not see more "positivity" or actual success stories, it's simply because these men will never feel the need to post on sites like this.

With all of this said, the overall dating market is in terrible shape right now. As has been mentioned many times, there have been a lot of stats coming out recently that are showing just how bad things are. Complete sexlessness in young men is at profound levels. About 2/3 of young men are single compared to 1/3 of women. Interestingly, there has also been a trend I've noticed on youtube over the last couple years where a lot of channels are dedicated to talking about subjects related to this, Courtney Ryan is a really good example. There is a reason why such channels are attracting so much attention, which is because the topics that are discussed resonate with the experiences that many young men have had.

A really good example would be a man is getting first dates but none of them lead to anywhere. He starts typing in stuff like "can't get a second date" or something like that and then stumbles upon pickup artists nonsense or possibly even this forum. He reads through the threads and he finds that many other men are venting about experiences that are similar to his own. He joins the forum, starts posting about his experiences and you see more of this on here.

 

[Stanley]

 

[LiveYourDream]

Men that are posting on here are not players, Don Juans, pimps, etc. Men that are going to find sites like this are those who are having issues with the opposite sex, whether that be relationships, dating, etc. These men are NOT in a good place with women and are looking to get a deeper insight into the issues they are having. This could be a million different things, so I'm not going to elaborate on those intricate details. If a man was doing well in his dating life, do you think he would be researching **** about "game" or other nonsense? That is part of the reason why you might not see more "positivity" or actual success stories, it's simply because these men will never feel the need to post on sites like this.

With all of this said, the overall dating market is in terrible shape right now. As has been mentioned many times, there have been a lot of stats coming out recently that are showing just how bad things are. Complete sexlessness in young men is at profound levels. About 2/3 of young men are single compared to 1/3 of women. Interestingly, there has also been a trend I've noticed on youtube over the last couple years where a lot of channels are dedicated to talking about subjects related to this, Courtney Ryan is a really good example. There is a reason why such channels are attracting so much attention, which is because the topics that are discussed resonate with the experiences that many young men have had.

I 100% think it is important for men to be able to be supported and work through these and other challenges they face, together.

 

[sangheilios]

I 100% think it is important for men to be able to be supported and work through these and other challenges they face, together.

I agree with this statement. I feel the biggest issue that young men are facing is that they are living in a time with a horrendous dating market, which is something they have 0 control over. Young men need to realize that the game their fathers, grandfathers, uncles, etc. played in was far less competitive during their prime years compared to now. In those times, just being a normal guy would have been enough to find a normal woman, get married and have children. Now, a normal or average guy would struggle to get a date from most women. If a young man is out of shape he is at a serious disadvantage. Young men need to work hard on bettering themselves and they still may be deemed unacceptable by below average women.

I'm not saying this out of pessimism, it's just the reality that young men are in right now. Being aware of the reality for what it is allows a man to make decisions that work best for him.

 

[LiveYourDream]

I agree with this statement. I feel the biggest issue that young men are facing is that they are living in a time with a horrendous dating market, which is something they have 0 control over. Young men need to realize that the game their fathers, grandfathers, uncles, etc. played in was far less competitive during their prime years compared to now. In those times, just being a normal guy would have been enough to find a normal woman, get married and have children. Now, a normal or average guy would struggle to get a date from most women. If a young man is out of shape he is at a serious disadvantage. Young men need to work hard on bettering themselves and they still may be deemed unacceptable by below average women.

I'm not saying this out of pessimism, it's just the reality that young men are in right now. Being aware of the reality for what it is allows a man to make decisions that work best for him.

How can men best empower each other, as they navigate these challenges?

 

[sangheilios]

How can men best empower each other, as they navigate these challenges?

I believe that a man needs to address this himself. He basically needs to realize reality for what it is and accept it. From here, he can make a decision that best suits him and his goals. This is where soul searching comes into play.

I also feel that men should be encouraged to try to be the best they can be overall. Sure, women like men that are 6'+ and have athletic bodies, but the reality is the majority of men do not have the genetics for something like this. Sure, women may like a celebrity or hyper successful individual, but these people are so rare that it is not something men should aspire to become. Basically, be in shape and have respect for your body. Have a purpose, something you are passionate about, working towards, etc. Have hobbies and interests, don't just work. Have a social life, etc.

Some men have the emotional capacity to handle a lot of rejections, flakes, first dates leading to nothing, etc. The dating market is ****, so if he is aware of this AND can handle these types of experiences he should look at it as a "numbers game". Given enough attempts, it is very likely he will find someone that he clicks with. However, he should be prepared for a lot of disappointment and also realize that there is absolutely nothing saying that he is guaranteed to experience success on some level.

Some men DO NOT have the emotional capacity to handle things like this, I'm one of them. Given enough experiences like this I was becoming incredibly frustrated. I found that my self esteem, mental health and overall well being were not at all in a good place. I had accepted that if I had continued on this path that these emotions and feelings that I had been experiencing would continue to become gradually worse. It was in my best interest to quit, check out, etc. because I did not have the necessary personality traits to be able to play the numbers game and put up with negative experiences again and again and again.

What I'm getting at is men should be far more honest with themselves and not try to fit into some narrative that they feel pressured into by society. I personally believe that many men feel pressured to enter into relationships in order to meet up to these expectations and when they aren't getting where they feel they need to be they become stressed, unhappy, etc.

For me personally, I found that I've become far happier by living my life and pursuing what I enjoy. I'd be totally open to dating or being in a relationship with the right woman, I've just accepted that this is not going to be something that I was destined for in my life. Maybe I'm incorrect, but when I resisted these thoughts was when I was most unhappy, stressed, etc. Now, the path that I am on is most likely not the correct path for the vast majority of other men out there.

 

[corrector]

I believe that a man needs to address this himself. He basically needs to realize reality for what it is and accept it. From here, he can make a decision that best suits him and his goals. This is where soul searching comes into play.

I also feel that men should be encouraged to try to be the best they can be overall. Sure, women like men that are 6'+ and have athletic bodies, but the reality is the majority of men do not have the genetics for something like this. Sure, women may like a celebrity or hyper successful individual, but these people are so rare that it is not something men should aspire to become. Basically, be in shape and have respect for your body. Have a purpose, something you are passionate about, working towards, etc. Have hobbies and interests, don't just work. Have a social life, etc.

Some men have the emotional capacity to handle a lot of rejections, flakes, first dates leading to nothing, etc. The dating market is ****, so if he is aware of this AND can handle these types of experiences he should look at it as a "numbers game". Given enough attempts, it is very likely he will find someone that he clicks with. However, he should be prepared for a lot of disappointment and also realize that there is absolutely nothing saying that he is guaranteed to experience success on some level.

Some men DO NOT have the emotional capacity to handle things like this, I'm one of them. Given enough experiences like this I was becoming incredibly frustrated. I found that my self esteem, mental health and overall well being were not at all in a good place. I had accepted that if I had continued on this path that these emotions and feelings that I had been experiencing would continue to become gradually worse. It was in my best interest to quit, check out, etc. because I did not have the necessary personality traits to be able to play the numbers game and put up with negative experiences again and again and again.

What I'm getting at is men should be far more honest with themselves and not try to fit into some narrative that they feel pressured into by society. I personally believe that many men feel pressured to enter into relationships in order to meet up to these expectations and when they aren't getting where they feel they need to be they become stressed, unhappy, etc.

For me personally, I found that I've become far happier by living my life and pursuing what I enjoy. I'd be totally open to dating or being in a relationship with the right woman, I've just accepted that this is not going to be something that I was destined for in my life. Maybe I'm incorrect, but when I resisted these thoughts was when I was most unhappy, stressed, etc. Now, the path that I am on is most likely not the correct path for the vast majority of other men out there.

You have not done anything since 2019, surely you must have recharged the emotional capacity battery by now.

 

[SW15]

This forum is becoming more and more blackpill.

The black pill is growing faster than the red pill, which is why you are observing that this forum is becoming more black pill.

This mentality was not in the PUA community in its heyday. When you read Roosh, Strauss, and especially Pook, you feel excited. You hear cool stories and you get pumped to try the tactics yourself. You may have once sucked with women, but writers like those above give you a spark to take action and approach. They remind you that you will fail, but that eventually — sometime — you will succeed.

It is from this inspiration that I began my PUA journey. I was excited — though very nervous — to learn how to get girls. These guys told me how to approach. They gave me a plan for action. I came into college and started applying. I failed a ton, and didn’t work up enough confidence to approach time after time, but I had a goal in my mind so I kept going.

Before Roosh converted to Christianity, he said that he had moved from the red pill to the black pill. It's clear to see Roosh giving a nod to the black pill in this 2018 article....

9 Ways Game Has Changed From 2001 To 2018

I read Roosh's book "Day Bang" soon after its 2011 publication and moved my Game from mostly night game to mostly day game. I can identify with feeling excited because that's how I felt after reading "Day Bang". I felt that Roosh's "Day Bang" equipped me to be a daygamer. I had heard of daygame as far back as the mid-2000s but never really knew how to implement it. "Day Bang" helped show me how to do it.

Neil Strauss is an outlier success story. Strauss is 5'6" and bald. He was an incel/borderline incel before being an incel was recognized as thing. That's because Strauss was born in 1969, making him a Gen X'er. Millennials (early 1980s to mid-1990s births) were the generational cohort when incel status became far more common. Neil Strauss is old enough to be @CollegeMan22 's father.

Men that are posting on here are not players, Don Juans, pimps, etc. Men that are going to find sites like this are those who are having issues with the opposite sex, whether that be relationships, dating, etc. These men are NOT in a good place with women and are looking to get a deeper insight into the issues they are having. This could be a million different things, so I'm not going to elaborate on those intricate details. If a man was doing well in his dating life, do you think he would be researching **** about "game" or other nonsense? That is part of the reason why you might not see more "positivity" or actual success stories, it's simply because these men will never feel the need to post on sites like this.

There are some good seducers/players on this forum. There are also men on this forum not in a good place with women but seeking change.

With all of this said, the overall dating market is in terrible shape right now. As has been mentioned many times, there have been a lot of stats coming out recently that are showing just how bad things are. Complete sexlessness in young men is at profound levels. About 2/3 of young men are single compared to 1/3 of women. Interestingly, there has also been a trend I've noticed on youtube over the last couple years where a lot of channels are dedicated to talking about subjects related to this, Courtney Ryan is a really good example. There is a reason why such channels are attracting so much attention, which is because the topics that are discussed resonate with the experiences that many young men have had.

Courtney Ryan is likely doing what she's doing for views and comments to make money off of her channel. You can make the argument that she wouldn't have had this idea if the dating market weren't bad.

Is Courtney Ryan a Fish Trying to Teach Men How to Catch Fish?

https://www.youtube.com/c/CourtneyRyan I can't figure out who is the target market for a woman being a men's issue specialist/leader.

www.sosuave.net

I've seen the dating market get worse in the last 15-20 years. 15-20 years ago, it wasn't that good either. This forum is so old that you could find threads from that era too. Strauss published "The Game" in 2005.

A really good example would be a man is getting first dates but none of them lead to anywhere. He starts typing in stuff like "can't get a second date" or something like that and then stumbles upon pickup artists nonsense or possibly even this forum. He reads through the threads and he finds that many other men are venting about experiences that are similar to his own. He joins the forum, starts posting about his experiences and you see more of this on here.

It's a very common experience for men to be using swipe apps and having "one date, no sex, no second date" type interactions. Those interactions can also happen from in-person approaching, but in-person approaching seems to be getting less common now.

I agree with this statement. I feel the biggest issue that young men are facing is that they are living in a time with a horrendous dating market, which is something they have 0 control over. Young men need to realize that the game their fathers, grandfathers, uncles, etc. played in was far less competitive during their prime years compared to now. In those times, just being a normal guy would have been enough to find a normal woman, get married and have children. Now, a normal or average guy would struggle to get a date from most women. If a young man is out of shape he is at a serious disadvantage. Young men need to work hard on bettering themselves and they still may be deemed unacceptable by below average women.

I'm not saying this out of pessimism, it's just the reality that young men are in right now. Being aware of the reality for what it is allows a man to make decisions that work best for him.

Fathers and uncles of younger adult men today were not in most cases prepared to equip their sons for the modern mating market. That's only speaking for the fathers and uncles who have been present in their lives of their sons and nephews.

I have made the point previously that women are sending more and more men to the rejection pile as compared to past eras.

If you were a Boomer male in his 20s in the 1970s, you could probably have a decent sex/relationships life by being decent looking (not overweight with a decent face and average height or better) and having a decent job. A Boomer male (especially the first 2/3rds of that generation) could have a reasonably stable romantic relationship if he were average or slightly above average. The 1970s-1980s was the last time that a guy could get away with being somewhat ordinary and be able to have decent experiences. By the time the earliest Millennials reached the mating marketplace in the early 2000s, this wasn't reality anymore. A Millennial around the same level of quality as a Boomer 25-30 years earlier has a less stable romantic life than his Boomer equivalent.

There are plenty of 65-75 year old Boomer males today who had a woman life that their 30-40 year old Millennial sons can't replicate. While a 65-75 year old Boomer male could have gotten a long term wife or gotten divorced/remarried as a fairly ordinary guy, a 30-40 year old Millennial who is rather ordinary today is either an incel or a guy who experiences long sexual droughts in between extended relationships. It's a much different reality for the Millennial male, as there are far more incel/borderline incel occurrences among Millennial males. I'm interested to see what happens with Gen Z males.

 

[Dr.Suave]

How can men best empower each other, as they navigate these challenges?

We should lift each other up here at SoSuave. But the line between tough love and useless insults is a bit blurry sometimes.

 

[corrector]

I'm interested to see what happens with Gen Z males.

You are already seeing it, most posters who use the dating apps are Gen Zs, like the OP. They are in their 20s. Older Gen-Zs are 26 years old.
This is the young adult prime age and older Millenials are starting to get old / post-prime now. It looks worst than even Millennials unless you have chad/chadlite looks.

 

[SW15]

Muscles, money, game

Rollo Tomassi says "Muscles, Money, and Game" all the time.

 

[CornbreadFed]

A lot of posters come on these forums for cope, not actual advice. There’s an active pickup thread on the top page currently, but it seems like you just ignored it.

Jesse Pinkman's approach/field reports thread.

So I thought that since I am going out and approaching so much, why not post a field report thread. Yeah, it is a little over 3 AM and I am posting this but whatever. Hate to post a new thread every time I go out and do approaches so I will just keep bumping this one (until mods make an official...

www.sosuave.net

Dating tips/advice threads will either be ignored or completely shat on. People just want to hear Andrew Tate praise, all women are bad, modern day dating sucks, etc. Anybody that is successful with women is apparently a Chad Which is odd because I never considered myself a Chad ever.

 

[corrector]

I come from a the biggest $hithole of 3rd world country (Cuba), and people will give everything to be in any of these guy's position. To have have a better quality of life, but instead they're staying down.

How many incels are in Cuba or is most people getting laid there? According to some people on this board, someone who is a debt slave brickworker in India who has pvssy is better off then someone who is an incel in the West because at least they are having sex. Honestly, the way sex is put up in a pedistle. I would disagree and would rather be an incel then have sex while being a debt slave in some sh1thold place.

 

[corrector]

Anybody that is successful with women is apparently a Chad

Exactly!