How to show interest without losing upper hand?

[BJP1991]

he and i have the same interest level, hes a bit more into me than i am and sees more of a future where i am just having fun and learning. it isn’t the kind of relationship i would want as a “serious” one. i have the guy my age for that. so my question was really how to match his game. i see this guy as a plate, very exciting sex and trips is all

Call it hypocrisy for posting this, but this is how you end up hurting a guy or playing with his emotions, when he clearly wants more than you do. It’s not even a blurry line or to question - he’s more invested than you.

Just be careful, is all. If he wants more than you do, which appears to be the case, the only outcome will be him being upset or damaged when he finds out - and he will.

 

[SeekerOfTheWay]

Call it hypocrisy for posting this, but this is how you end up hurting a guy or playing with his emotions, when he clearly wants more than you do. It’s not even a blurry line or to question - he’s more invested than you.

Just be careful, is all. If he wants more than you do, which appears to be the case, the only outcome will be him being upset or damaged when he finds out - and he will.

He wants more but he also has 2 other GFs and FWBs. and doesn’t want me sleeping or seeing anyone else romantic “too much”. so i am not willing to give him more. he’s plated. lol.

 

[TheGambino]

This is correct. Unfortunately Nature has a different agenda.

People--not just women--appreciate what they need to work to earn. And what comes easy, is rarely (or shall we say not easily) appreciated. I never said it was equitable nor fair. However, to ignore what Nature has intended is not wise too.

As to showing interest: I show interest sparingly. After all, her beauty simply opens the door, BUT does not garner my interest. My interest needs to be earned ... slowly. I keep a bit of reservation--especially in the beginning--to permit time to run its course to understand her essence behind the veil she projects to the world. And the greater she demonstrates integrity over time, the greater my interest in her rises and is shown commensurately. So here, I respect Nature, I respect myself, and she respects the relation Because she had to earn it.

Thats nice i just go for it like a maniac thats just me... cant help it if i would be more like u i would **** more

 

[Julian]

When you achieve the alpha mindset fullblown and are willing to walk away at any time for any reason no questions asked is when you have the upper hand.

 

[SeekerOfTheWay]

When you achieve the alpha mindset fullblown and are willing to walk away at any time for any reason no questions asked is when you have the upper hand.

that’s my downfall. prefect summation.

 

[Spaz]

Someone set me straight, any advice would be much appreciated :flowers:

:flowers:..........?!

 

[Dan.Lifestyle]

Iv'e been hitting a roadblock with a few girls lately that i think has to do with my inner game.

Basically i tease them and take the upper hand. They get attracted to me and show interest. But then i don't know how to follow up, it seems that i can't find the line between demonstrating high value and asserting myself intimately and flirting. And they back out because i don't take action.

I'm not sure why, maybe it's fear of losing the upper hand or fear of how she will respond. I can't seem to figure it out and it prevents me from getting consistent results.

Someone set me straight, any advice would be much appreciated :flowers:

Set your Frame my guy. You need to first know what attracts women. Long story short, a celebrity Status. Imagine for one second you're a celebrity. How many women would be trying to chase you? If you have all these other women chasing you would you be scared to tell her exactly what you like about her and lose interest if she starts playing games? Answer: Of course not. You don't need her, you're the prize bud. She's pretty, but your value far exceeds that. You'll be making money and becoming MORE valuable while she'll be getting older and losing value everyday. Time to start acting like it!

 

[old_skoolr]

Basically i tease them and take the upper hand. They get attracted to me and show interest. But then i don't know how to follow up, it seems that i can't find the line between demonstrating high value and asserting myself intimately and flirting. And they back out because i don't take action.

I'm not sure why, maybe it's fear of losing the upper hand or fear of how she will respond. I can't seem to figure it out and it prevents me from getting consistent results.

Someone set me straight, any advice would be much appreciated :flowers:

How can you say you have the upper hand, when you're to afraid to ask them out?

Just ask them out....simple really.

There's always a right way and a wrong way of doing it.

Ohh and in regards to your flowers comment

 

[EyeOnThePrize]

I’m surprised more guys don’t have this problem. You have incidentally uncovered the logical flaw of gaming women.

Conventional game wisdom tells you that you should dhv, act c0cky funny, be interesting, and women will be attracted. But then how do you show interest?

The answer is you can’t. There is a logical flaw somewhere. The current game system where the male is the seducer is broken. It does not work. Maybe 1 in 100 tries with a desperate woman.

You cannot run game on women and then suddenly show interest.

The reason why is because she hasn’t made any effort on her part. YOU made all the effort.

To reward a woman for not making any efforts = low value.

It is only after SHE made an attempt to seduce you that you can reward her with interest.

The woman is supposed to be the one pursuing and seducing. Only then does showing interest makes any sense on your part.

She makes an effort, you reward her with interest.

This is the natural order created by nature.

Again, I’m surprised more puas and male seducers don’t run into this problem. They probably do but never report it because they want to desperately cling on to the notion that men can seduce women, AND show interest, and somehow still be able to maintain the upper hand.

It is a logical fallacy.

What you do is you prompt women to make an effort. You qualify them on THEIR personality. You make THEM dhv themselves and prove THEIR worth to you.

And only after she has made a worthy effort to impress you can you show interest while being able to maintain frame as the validator.

The source of validation. That’s your role as a man. Women are the real seducers.

There's nothing wrong with showing interest. Many women simply won't initiate but have high interest. If I'm in the mood I'll initiate out of curiosity, but if she doesn't reciprocate or nothing starts flowing then I'll pull back. Some guys on here say to never chase and let them come to you, which is totally fine but I enjoy talking with women and fine tuning my social acuity. The rejection or lack of reciprocation doesn't bother me.

OP when you're staying true to your principles and morals you won't lose the upper hand because you won't do anything that demeans you. You'll walk if you think you can do better or the other person isn't willing to meet your expectations and work on things. You won't even be thinking about game and keeping the upper hand. That's how confidence is built. Do what feels right at your deepest level and reap the benefits of staying true to yourself. Like others have mentioned this is what makes the 'take it or leave it' frame that seems so sought after here. People get in trouble when they try to fake it because they're not in tune with their core. Stay centered and work out the creases in your mind.

 

[guru1000]

@EyeOnThePrize it is not that a man cannot show interest (else risk rejection), rather it’s in a man’s best interest to show interest sparingly and generally in reward to incite the chase frame in her.

If she is chasing you then you have zero mental effort expended on her and more for greater pursuits in life.

Now if she is sparingly investing too, then the dance will simply take longer, but also more appreciated upon consummation.

But there is something deeper:

I understand your take perfectly about the thrill of the chase, as a hunter when he catches his prey. Unfortunately, in romance, desire works counterintuitively: that is, the more she needs to work for you, the greater her ensuing desire will be for you. So while hunting is fun, it is also not as romantically effective as allowing space for her to invest.

Yes, I’ll pursue until the initial date. However, following, I expect returns on my investment, via her efforts.

 

[BJP1991]

Good thread, but take a step back and see the forest for the trees.

The second you approach a girl, be ****y/funny around them, and even give them good eye contact, you’re showing your intent.

Women are smart. Shyt - they’re a hell of a lot smarter than men. They know this shyt - at least any decent looking woman does who has been approached by a man before. They’re biologically trained to recognize this kind of thing. From the second you chat them up and give them good eye contact and act funny/playful with them, they know. Even before you ask for their number.

To me, asking a girl out on a date is intent. Spending time with them is intent. It’s pretty simple, I think.

As for “showing intent” without losing the upper hand, just maintain frame, pass shyt tests, and use push pull. Todd V has an interesting video about how “showing intent is ruining your game” - it’s insightful. I don’t mean to say it’s the “bible” of the intent subject, but it’s worth a watch if you’re interested.

 

[EyeOnThePrize]

@EyeOnThePrize it is not that a man cannot show interest (else risk rejection), rather it’s in a man’s best interest to show interest sparingly and generally in reward to incite the chase frame in her.

If she is chasing you then you have zero mental effort expended on her and more for greater pursuits in life.

Now if she is sparingly investing too, then the dance will simply take longer, but also more appreciated upon consummation.

But there is something deeper:

I understand your take perfectly about the thrill of the chase, as a hunter when he catches his prey. Unfortunately, in romance, desire works counterintuitively: that is, the more she needs to work for you, the greater her ensuing desire will be for you. So while hunting is fun, it is also not as romantically effective as allowing space for her to invest.

Yes, I’ll pursue until the initial date. However, following, I expect returns on my investment, via her efforts.

I agree with you completely. I don't mean to say I pursue relentlessly. I act as a spark to start the fire, then fall back to create space. My mistake in the past has been to fall back in all areas rather than just with her. I would definitely benefit from learning to separate the two. Would you agree the most efficient route is to not pursue at all but rather direct her pursuit from the beginning? You obviously go with the pursuit at first option but what's your personal reasoning behind not being content with what come to you? Is it this hunting spirit or is there something more?

 

[guru1000]

I agree with you completely. I don't mean to say I pursue relentlessly. I act as a spark to start the fire, then fall back to create space. My mistake in the past has been to fall back in all areas rather than just with her. I would definitely benefit from learning to separate the two. Would you agree the most efficient route is to not pursue at all but rather direct her pursuit from the beginning? You obviously go with the pursuit at first option but what's your personal reasoning behind not being content with what come to you? Is it this hunting spirit or is there something more?

Yes to your first question.

What I mean by pursuit is the initial approach without her having invested yet. So I am essentially investing naked of her efforts. There is my only exception to the investment rule and hence the word ”pursuit.”

I will also initiate a call/text to set the date if she doesnt but this is not a naked investment (pursuit) as that will only occur if she showed appreciation at the approach. From then on, she must show effort for my continued time/attention.

As to not being content to what comes easily to me: for many, the ones that come easy come easy for a reason, don’t they? The women I consider at my level date pro ball players, celebs, hedge fund managers, and other high rollers. These women don’t approach anyone. Just to give a man validation in any form is an insult to their ego as their ego has been validated to an almost fictional degree. My ex dated a pro ball player who she didn’t approach or even acknowledge existed until he approached her. That’s her (their) paradigm. Hence, I will approach these types. Much of what I say is not relevant to many here but as you desire 9s/10s, as you see, it’s a different game. Though, the rules of making them work after the first date apply even greater as what separates you from that “Hedge fund guy” is she needed to work for you.

 

[Spaz]

The women I consider at my level date pro ball players, celebs, hedge fund managers, and other high rollers. These women don’t approach anyone. Just to give a man validation in any form is an insult to their ego as their ego has been validated to an almost fictional degree. My ex dated a pro ball player who she didn’t approach or even acknowledge existed until he approached her. That’s her (their) paradigm. Hence, I will approach these types.

Seems u r still at the teenage level guru....Tsk...Tsk...Tsk.

No wonder you come up egolessness, a tactic to give or project more love to women because you can't keep women in ur orbit.

But all those supplicating moves you make will only drive them further away.

You need more training buddy.

I'd be happy to teach you how to lure women, why don't we 1st discuss ur need to be supplicating 1st, the root causes etc.

 

[Spaz]

I’m surprised more guys don’t have this problem. You have incidentally uncovered the logical flaw of gaming women.

Conventional game wisdom tells you that you should dhv, act c0cky funny, be interesting, and women will be attracted. But then how do you show interest?

The answer is you can’t. There is a logical flaw somewhere. The current game system where the male is the seducer is broken. It does not work. Maybe 1 in 100 tries with a desperate woman.

You cannot run game on women and then suddenly show interest.

The reason why is because she hasn’t made any effort on her part. YOU made all the effort.

To reward a woman for not making any efforts = low value.

It is only after SHE made an attempt to seduce you that you can reward her with interest.

The woman is supposed to be the one pursuing and seducing. Only then does showing interest makes any sense on your part.

She makes an effort, you reward her with interest.

This is the natural order created by nature.

Again, I’m surprised more puas and male seducers don’t run into this problem. They probably do but never report it because they want to desperately cling on to the notion that men can seduce women, AND show interest, and somehow still be able to maintain the upper hand.

It is a logical fallacy.

What you do is you prompt women to make an effort. You qualify them on THEIR personality. You make THEM dhv themselves and prove THEIR worth to you.

And only after she has made a worthy effort to impress you can you show interest while being able to maintain frame as the validator.

The source of validation. That’s your role as a man. Women are the real seducers.

Too bad not many could understand this simple rule of nature.

Sad.

 

[guru1000]

Seems u r still at the teenage level guru....Tsk...Tsk...Tsk.

No wonder you come up egolessness, a tactic to give or project more love to women because you can't keep women in ur orbit.

But all those supplicating moves you make will only drive them further away.

You need more training buddy.

I'd be happy to teach you how to lure women, why don't we 1st discuss ur need to be supplicating 1st, the root causes etc.

What have I done to make you such an enemy that you pursue me in every thread?

Was it my addressing that you dated 6s in the pics you once shared or my invalidating your logical positions in the last few threads.

Listen buddy: we have shown each other to each other. You’re in SE Asia dating average girls. I’m a former Wall street guy with those venue-types in those circles. We are very different.

Seems like many of your posts are implicit tugs at my teachings. But you are not at a level to challenge really anything I ever wrote. We are at and will always be at different levels. So although you are willing to throw your next 1000 posts at me, I cannot do the same.

If it makes you feel relevant to come at me kind of like a David vs Goliath, then have at it but this post will be the last of any attention I can give to you. If it makes you feel more relevant to come at me without my responding, then have at that too. It’s almost insulting to my own value to even respond but I do so out of respect. I hope in your life, you can transcend this petty paradigm of implicit tugs and become a great man. You have the potential to.

 

[Spaz]

What have I done to make you such an enemy that you pursue me in every thread?

Was it my addressing that you dated 6s in the pics you once shared or my invalidating your logical positions in the last few threads.

Listen buddy: we have shown each other to each other. You’re in SE Asia dating average girls. I’m a former Wall street guy with those venue-types in those circles. We are very different.

Seems like many of your posts are implicit tugs at my teachings. But you are not at a level to challenge really anything I ever wrote. We are at and will always be at different levels. So although you are willing to throw your next 1000 posts at me, I cannot do the same.

If it makes you feel relevant to come at me kind of like a David vs Goliath, then have at it but this post will be the last of any attention I can give to you. If it makes you feel more relevant to come at me without my responding, then have at that too. It’s almost insulting to my own value to even respond but I do so out of respect. I hope in your life, you can transcend this petty paradigm of implicit tugs and become a great man. You have the potential to.

Every thread? Don't be delusional. Don't be sensitive.

It ain't personal it's just forum business for me.

Turning men into supplicating fools is considered a teaching or a feminization?

1st answer that and then we can discuss the others that you raised or feel uncomfortable with.

 

[EyeOnThePrize]

Yes to your first question.

What I mean by pursuit is the initial approach without her having invested yet. So I am essentially investing naked of her efforts. There is my only exception to the investment rule and hence the word ”pursuit.”

I will also initiate a call/text to set the date if she doesnt but this is not a naked investment (pursuit) as that will only occur if she showed appreciation at the approach. From then on, she must show effort for my continued time/attention.

As to not being content to what comes easily to me: for many, the ones that come easy come easy for a reason, don’t they? The women I consider at my level date pro ball players, celebs, hedge fund managers, and other high rollers. These women don’t approach anyone. Just to give a man validation in any form is an insult to their ego as their ego has been validated to an almost fictional degree. My ex dated a pro ball player who she didn’t approach or even acknowledge existed until he approached her. That’s her (their) paradigm. Hence, I will approach these types. Much of what I say is not relevant to many here but as you desire 9s/10s, as you see, it’s a different game. Though, the rules of making them work after the first date apply even greater as what separates you from that “Hedge fund guy” is she needed to work for you.

This is insightful. I can understand this initial pursuit as being necessary for 10s and I see the immediate and indefinite pull back after sex as a filter. Only a 10 without self esteem issues will be pleasant and bubbly in her continued pursuit(if she even chooses to do so). This also comes off quite ballsy to a woman of confidence because you're so willing to let it end right there if she doesn't invest. And all this maintained with a positive loving attitude is understandably very attractive. I assume a lot of 10s have baggage and lack the confidence to pursue pleasantly and genuinely but what has your experience been? I remember you mentioning there have only been a handful of woman in all your encounters that seemed to exceed all your expectations to the utmost. I assume this means they had a prosperous outlook on your relationship and made no missteps. Not to get too personal but why did you not guide these women into your life? Or was it their decision to leave and you simply let them because enticing them meant supplication?

Also don't you think the initial attention can come off as disingenuous and conditional once you pullback for seemingly no reason(from her perspective)? I could also see 10s simply hopping from guy to guy that do this without a second thought. Thankful for the attention but with no desire to ever pursue because so many men are willing to show this initial naked investment that it's sustainable. I can see this not bothering you if you're coming from abundance but I can't help but think it's easy to overcompensate without realizing it and end up with a tinge of resentment, regret, or melancholy the next day.

Feel free to DM if you find it more appealing.

 

[guru1000]

This is insightful. I can understand this initial pursuit as being necessary for 10s and I see the immediate and indefinite pull back after sex as a filter. Only a 10 without self esteem issues will be pleasant and bubbly in her continued pursuit(if she even chooses to do so). This also comes off quite ballsy to a woman of confidence because you're so willing to let it end right there if she doesn't invest. And all this maintained with a positive loving attitude is understandably very attractive. I assume a lot of 10s have baggage and lack the confidence to pursue pleasantly and genuinely but what has your experience been? I remember you mentioning there have only been a handful of woman in all your encounters that seemed to exceed all your expectations to the utmost. I assume this means they had a prosperous outlook on your relationship and made no missteps. Not to get too personal but why did you not guide these women into your life? Or was it their decision to leave and you simply let them because enticing them meant supplication?

Also don't you think the initial attention can come off as disingenuous and conditional once you pullback for seemingly no reason(from her perspective)? I could also see 10s simply hopping from guy to guy that do this without a second thought. Thankful for the attention but with no desire to ever pursue because so many men are willing to show this initial naked investment that it's sustainable. I can see this not bothering you if you're coming from abundance but I can't help but think it's easy to overcompensate without realizing it and end up with a tinge of resentment, regret, or melancholy the next day.

Feel free to DM if you find it more appealing.

Sometimes relations must end before they begin. She cannot really know you without experiencing you first.

This means: She knows your stories; she knows what you represent and how you think, but because she has yet to experience YOU, it's just a story, not felt as the deepest emotion in her psyche ... yet. For example, if you were an alien and came down to this planet and asked me what love was, and I told you what love felt like, could any words I shared with you come close to your actual experiencing of love? Here, it works the same way. She must experience that KNOWing by feeling it at the deepest level.

I make her FEEL it by imbuing my presence and then removing myself altogether (if necessary). 99% of my girls as far back as the last 12 somewhat years have chased me. It works something like this:

We date. She knows me but has yet to experience me. I desire her to chase. She may or she may not. If she does not, I remove myself. She returns. We continue.

The next question becomes what if she does not return? Then it cannot be because she is not ready to enter your frame (or any others for that matter). BUT, if you impact her psyche in a meaningful way in the time you have spent together, you just imbued her with motivation to return, and eventually to chase.

As to why I didn't guide these women into my life: I assume you mean why am I not with them today. It was not their fault, but my own. Though not exactly the fault of either. Simply, I lost interest and what followed, followed. May be the sweet poison to absolute domination of another; that is a loss of appreciation for her. Though I don't believe longevity of an LTR defines success. The success rests in having experienced and grown from them. And for her too.