How to not be the old dude in the club

[ketostix]

The "Old Guy in the Club" is yet another social convention archetype designed to shame 35+ y.o. (it actually seems to be getting younger now) men into "growing up", abandoning their natural desire to ƒuck young, hot, women and accepting "their responsibility" by providing for the security needs of 'mature women' unable to sexually compete with the younger ones (the ones they used to be) that vie for men's attention.

The Old Guy in the Club is a myth, and what's ironic is that statistically, the 'Old Gal in the Club' should be a far more common occurrence. Yet, we don't have an 'Old Gal' stigma attached to these women - it's a uniquely male-targeted shaming convention. In fact, if anything, the MILF phenomenon is a socially reinforced goal state for single / divorced mature women. It's a point of pride for women and a mark of shame for men.

Rollo I agree with all that except to say a social convention even though based upon fallacies is still real nonetheless. When society keeps telling women that older man=creepy then this becomes a real belief and a social stigma that they act out. Even if a younger woman finds older men attractive she's less likely to act upon it because of the societal conditioning and the stigma. There's an abundant surplus of younger d!ck so she doesn't need an older guy and is sacrificing nothing by following the social convention. Plus it's just plain fun for them to have some group to hate on, you know.

It's also ridiculous because as PENKITTEN pointed out, the shaming convention would have us presume that the only clubs in existence are ones where 21-28 y.o.s are uninhibittedly grinding away to pulsing trance-house music beats and a balding divorcee sits wistfully wishing he were still young enough to join them again. Gimme a ƒucking break.

This is a regional thing, but I got to tell you many places I've been the nightlife is predominately even overwhelmingly a college aged crowd. Then there seems to be a big gap of single attractive women between 23-30 or so out on the prowl. There will be some 20-somethings but they seem to be out with work friends, married or in a relationship. What's left is bars with 30-something year old hags you wouldn't want. This is not to sound negative at all, just stating the reality in many locales.

The Old Man in the Club is nonsense. What it comes down to is individual social intelligence and a willingness to observe one's surroundings and adapt to them. Evolve or masturbate, it's up to you.

Whether to say the Old Man in the Club is a difficult hurdle or not is one thing, but to say it's a myth I disagree. I've been out literally well over a 1000nights and I can count on one hand how many older guys I've seen make headway in a club with a young crowd. I've known some but they a very rare. Yet I've seen so may younger guys hooking it up. This is not because of a myth or lacking of older guys to have social intelligence, being adaptable or evolve. The older guy social shaming and stigma is an actual hurdle to get over. If the social indocterination changed to hype the older-guy-with younger-girl tomorrow, young girls would be all over older men.

 

[STR8UP]

Even if a younger woman finds older men attractive she's less likely to act upon it because of the societal conditioning and the stigma. There's an abundant surplus of younger d!ck so she doesn't need an older guy and is sacrificing nothing by following the social convention. Plus it's just plain fun for them to have some group to hate on, you know.

The shaming DOES have an effect on some younger women. No doubt there are a lot of chicks out there who would brush off older guys even if they are attracted to them, HOWEVER.....as a general rule women PREFER older men.

I'm not necessarily talking about a 20 year age gap, but 10 is really no big deal to a lot of women, and if the attraction is there and the guy doesn't look and act like a fossil, it really doesn't matter that much at all.

And when you talk about how you see the younger guys making headway in the club, I don't think you are accounting for the fact that the successful older guys aren't going to stick out as being an "older guy", so first glance can be deceiving.

What it really comes down to here is that guys who are in their 30's and 40's who wear it well don't stand out and actually are attractive to a lot of younger women, even edging out an advantage in some cases.

 

[ketostix]

The shaming DOES have an effect on some younger women. No doubt there are a lot of chicks out there who would brush off older guys even if they are attracted to them, HOWEVER.....as a general rule women PREFER older men.

To be totally honest, probably mostly due to the social convention if there is a general rule it's girls in their early 20's prefer a guy their age to 2 years older and anything over 5 years and they have to justify it to all their c0ckblocking friends. To a 21 year-old girl, a 23-25 year-old guy IS an older guy that isn't "too old".

And when you talk about how you see the younger guys making headway in the club, I don't think you are accounting for the fact that the successful older guys aren't going to stick out as being an "older guy", so first glance can be deceiving.

What it really comes down to here is that guys who are in their 30's and 40's who wear it well don't stand out and actually are attractive to a lot of younger women, even edging out an advantage in some cases.

I'm pretty sure I can tell a guy who's in his late 20's or older out of a crowd of 21 year olds. It's pretty obvious who's a college guy with his college friends and who isn't. But if a guy who's 30's or 40's still looks indistinquishable from an early 20 year old, then it makes the whole point of being older moot. That's the whole point, an older guy has to be exceptional to PU young girls due to the social convention.

As I said, I've been out well over a 1000 times and talk to and know many guys of various ages, and I'm going to believe my own eyes and experience over anything else.

 

[STR8UP]

Man, I live blocks away from the nightlife. I've lived in this area for over 6 years so I have been out PLENTY of times.

I can't speak for other older men because I don't pay any attention, but my friends and I have no problems with younger women.

Granted, most of the action I have gotten from younger chicks has been through friends, but I met my 21 yr old g/f at a club when I was 31. No issues at all. And she even told me later that she never would have thought she would end up with a guy 10 years older. Attraction trumps social conventions. and really, none of her friends had an issue with it that I am aware of. Her stepdad wasn't my best buddy, but her mom loved me.

I'm no Adonis, but at 37 I get carded about 75% of the time for alcohol and most people think I am closer to 30 than 40. I'm sure that helps, but the problem with a lot of guys is that their face looks weathered, they are 40lbs overweight, and they dress old. I'm not perfect, but I don't carry myself in a way that a "typical" guy who is approaching 40 does. there are certain things you can work on and certain things you are stuck with, but running into guys I went to H/S with it is clear to see that MOST of it is simply guys letting themselves go and failing to keep up with the times.

I'm sure as you get older that some younger women won't be accessible no matter what you do, but I also know that 10 years ago I would have laughed you in the face if you told me that I would have women from early 20's to 50's attracted to me at age 37.

 

[Amazing]

Man, I live blocks away from the nightlife. I've lived in this area for over 6 years so I have been out PLENTY of times.

I can't speak for other older men because I don't pay any attention, but my friends and I have no problems with younger women.

Granted, most of the action I have gotten from younger chicks has been through friends, but I met my 21 yr old g/f at a club when I was 31. No issues at all. And she even told me later that she never would have thought she would end up with a guy 10 years older. Attraction trumps social conventions. and really, none of her friends had an issue with it that I am aware of. Her stepdad wasn't my best buddy, but her mom loved me.

I'm no Adonis, but at 37 I get carded about 75% of the time for alcohol and most people think I am closer to 30 than 40. I'm sure that helps, but the problem with a lot of guys is that their face looks weathered, they are 40lbs overweight, and they dress old. I'm not perfect, but I don't carry myself in a way that a "typical" guy who is approaching 40 does. there are certain things you can work on and certain things you are stuck with, but running into guys I went to H/S with it is clear to see that MOST of it is simply guys letting themselves go and failing to keep up with the times.

I'm sure as you get older that some younger women won't be accessible no matter what you do, but I also know that 10 years ago I would have laughed you in the face if you told me that I would have women from early 20's to 50's attracted to me at age 37.

Key is to own a club then you have a reason to be there no matter how old!

 

[Scaramouche]

Dear BlackMM,
Seems apologies are due,you never suggested you were looking for Ladies 20 years younger,did you?...Sorry...But seems I touched on a number of raw nerves...Well Stiff...Where the hurt is felt greatest then there let the great axe fall....difference between me and the 38 year old creeps who try to date 19 year olds is that I have sons their age and two daughters 19 and 21...They were visiting this afternoon so I showed them the correspondence,they were highly amused...The youngest who is currently paying her way through Uni by working in a high class club,says she sees it all the time,that they are never successful except for the crafty girls who lead them on for big eats and presents then laugh all the way to the Bank.

 

[MrLuvr]

Man, I live blocks away from the nightlife. I've lived in this area for over 6 years so I have been out PLENTY of times.

I can't speak for other older men because I don't pay any attention, but my friends and I have no problems with younger women.

Granted, most of the action I have gotten from younger chicks has been through friends, but I met my 21 yr old g/f at a club when I was 31. No issues at all. And she even told me later that she never would have thought she would end up with a guy 10 years older. Attraction trumps social conventions. and really, none of her friends had an issue with it that I am aware of. Her stepdad wasn't my best buddy, but her mom loved me.

I'm no Adonis, but at 37 I get carded about 75% of the time for alcohol and most people think I am closer to 30 than 40. I'm sure that helps, but the problem with a lot of guys is that their face looks weathered, they are 40lbs overweight, and they dress old. I'm not perfect, but I don't carry myself in a way that a "typical" guy who is approaching 40 does. there are certain things you can work on and certain things you are stuck with, but running into guys I went to H/S with it is clear to see that MOST of it is simply guys letting themselves go and failing to keep up with the times.

I'm sure as you get older that some younger women won't be accessible no matter what you do, but I also know that 10 years ago I would have laughed you in the face if you told me that I would have women from early 20's to 50's attracted to me at age 37.

Agree with a lot of that. Most people have a preconception of what they think a 40 yr old guy should look like. Overweight, balding, badly dressed usually come to mind.

But, here, how old does this guy look:
http://i579.photobucket.com/albums/ss236/ManAbout/IMG_0043.jpg

If you saw him in a club, would you think, look at that older guy trying to score with young chicks? That is me, btw. I am no Adonis either, but when I go into a club, I dont think I stick out as the "older guy in the club". I think I look better than a lot of guys 10 years younger than me. I get regular IOIs from women in their 20s. Take care of yourself and how you dress. And most importantly, THINK YOUNG.

 

[STR8UP]

Exactly, MrLuvr.

I'm glad you posted that pic cause that is exactly what I am talking about. If I glanced at you and someone asked me to guess your age it wouldn't even be close to 40.

When you go to a club it's actually EASY to blend in with a younger crowd if you carry yourself well, simply due to the fact that people have this preconception of what a 40 yr old SHOULD look like. When you don't look the way a stereotypical middle ager looks, you aren't categorized as "old".

We don't have our age tattooed on our foreheads. The most important thing is to look the best you can and carry yourself well. If you can do that, age becomes much less of an issue

 

[ketostix]

I also know that 10 years ago I would have laughed you in the face if you told me that I would have women from early 20's to 50's attracted to me at age 37.

I look at it almost the opposite. 15 maybe 20 years ago I would've never thought that age would be the obstacle that it has become now. In the late 80's, I distinctly recall every woman's magazine cover, Cosmopolitan and what have you touting the superiority of dating older men vs younger men. It's like the new social convention has done a 180. I distinctly remember this and I wonder if any other guys in their late 30's or older remember this.

Anyway, my point is that being older is not an advantage in its self with younger girls. It's not an obstacle in the minds of older guys, it's an obstacle in the minds of younger girls placed there by the social convention. To say if you look like your in your 20's and if this and if that, then it's really just side-stepping the issue of age difference being an obstacle if even an artificially created one by society.

I'm just saying it's a real obstacle not that it can't be overcome. I haven't seen guys in their 30's do too well or even attempted to go into a true college bar crowd full of 19-21 y.o's. It's always if you look in your 20's, if you have a big group of friends for SP, if you are smooth etc then you'll PU 21 year-olds. That's just side-stepping the issue. I never said it's impossible to attract and PU girls 10-15 years younger but there is an obstacle there.

 

[Juando]

very interesting comments, biases, experiences.

My new gf is a South American actress, beautiful, smart, unbelievably sexy, 31 years old.

I am handsome but not a movie star or celebrity, not rich, in good shape.

I met her at a music event where I went to hear music, introduced myself, went out with her for a walk first date, and had her in bed by our second date.

No tricks up my sleeve, no Rolexes or Armanis, I just act myself and when I meet a woman I'm attracted to she knows it whether she's 19 or 90.

 

[MrLuvr]

very interesting comments, biases, experiences.

My new gf is a South American actress, beautiful, smart, unbelievably sexy, 31 years old.

I am handsome but not a movie star or celebrity, not rich, in good shape.

I met her at a music event where I went to hear music, introduced myself, went out with her for a walk first date, and had her in bed by our second date.

No tricks up my sleeve, no Rolexes or Armanis, I just act myself and when I meet a woman I'm attracted to she knows it whether she's 19 or 90.

Different culture. You can't compare Latin American women to those in the USA or Canada. It is much more culturally accepted there to date older men. Not only accepted, but expected.

 

[Juando]

Different culture. You can't compare Latin American women to those in the USA or Canada. It is much more culturally accepted there to date older men. Not only accepted, but expected.

Fair enough.

There are two others, telling me they're wanting me back in town, both American born and raised.
One is 30 the other is 23. My ex is from Texas, 37, got with her in her 20s.

I keep trying to get with older women but nearly despondent at my miserable rate of success. Truth is, the older women act in all the flaky and crazy ways that the younger ones are supposed to, so what is a guy to do?

 

[Juando]

Ok, so I'm not that despondent. Chiquita takes my mind off depression and a lot of other things...

 

[STR8UP]

I look at it almost the opposite. 15 maybe 20 years ago I would've never thought that age would be the obstacle that it has become now. In the late 80's, I distinctly recall every woman's magazine cover, Cosmopolitan and what have you touting the superiority of dating older men vs younger men. It's like the new social convention has done a 180. I distinctly remember this and I wonder if any other guys in their late 30's or older remember this.

This is all a bunch of smoke and mirrors. some of the younger guys are buying it making cougars think they still have a shot in the mating game (they do but it's only pump and dump), but the shaming of older men has always been there, yet younger women still tend to gravitate to them.

Anyway, my point is that being older is not an advantage in its self with younger girls.

"Older" isn't an advantage, but some of the things that typically come with age are an advantage. The only two real disadvantages are "the number" (which as I stated before is not tattoed on your head) and your looks (which you have a fair amount of control over).

Women want a man they can look up to. They want a man who is stable and has his sh!t together. They want a man who isn't intimidated by them. One who has status and wealth. All of these qualities tend to be found in older men.

I'm just saying it's a real obstacle not that it can't be overcome.

It can be an obstacle, but more often what I see is that MEN are the ones who make it into an obstacle. If they would be confident and shut their yap they could have plenty of younger women. But time and time again you see older guys freaking out about it which will of course lead to a self fulfilling prophecy.

 

[Amazing]

very interesting comments, biases, experiences.

My new gf is a South American actress, beautiful, smart, unbelievably sexy, 31 years old.

I am handsome but not a movie star or celebrity, not rich, in good shape.

I met her at a music event where I went to hear music, introduced myself, went out with her for a walk first date, and had her in bed by our second date.

No tricks up my sleeve, no Rolexes or Armanis, I just act myself and when I meet a woman I'm attracted to she knows it whether she's 19 or 90.

I have Armani - hook me up!

 

[Poonani Maker]

I just got mistaken for 27 my a chick last week. I'm 33. I see the age finally drooping around my eyes now, though, like Brad Pitt.

 

[ketostix]

This is all a bunch of smoke and mirrors. some of the younger guys are buying it making cougars think they still have a shot in the mating game (they do but it's only pump and dump), but the shaming of older men has always been there, yet younger women still tend to gravitate to them.

What's all smoke and mirrors? Older men were not shamed in the past, at least not like anything like today. In the past men in their 30's married females 13 years of age.

"Older" isn't an advantage, but some of the things that typically come with age are an advantage. The only two real disadvantages are "the number" (which as I stated before is not tattoed on your head) and your looks (which you have a fair amount of control over).

My view is looks or appearance is 90% of the game. The main reason "the number" is a disadvantage and not an advantage is because of the age difference social convention hysteria. I just don't understand why you are so adamant about arguing that this age shaming doesn't exist and doesn't have an effect on older men. You're a strong believer in the phenomena of shaming. This is a common thing men do. They deny or think if they ignore anti-male societal BS then it doesn't exist. That's basically what men did when the feminist started up all this stuff.

Women want a man they can look up to. They want a man who is stable and has his sh!t together. They want a man who isn't intimidated by them. One who has status and wealth. All of these qualities tend to be found in older men.

I agree with that to an extent, but I've seen so many young attractive girls with broke, unstable young guys to not believe that absolute. It's hard for a girl to look up to an older man when society is constantly hammering the message older guy+younger girl=creepy!. But when you throw in wealth and status, it's side-stepping the issue that age isn't an advantage in its self.

It can be an obstacle, but more often what I see is that MEN are the ones who make it into an obstacle. If they would be confident and shut their yap they could have plenty of younger women. But time and time again you see older guys freaking out about it which will of course lead to a self fulfilling prophecy.

I got to be honest, I've seen a lot of older guys trying and not getting anywhere. You can only look so young at age 40. I don't believe for a minute that older men frabicated this obstacle in their own minds and out of thin air. But I do agree you can't fall into the trap of psyching yourself out over it. On the other hand, guys can't pretend that they're not under attack, stick their heads in the sand and think the societal BS will go away on its own or not effect them because they're so special.

You got to understand, I see guys online make extraordinary claims of how they have all these 21 year old girls into them. But there's nothing to back it up and it's blatantly obvious it's their ego talking. And when I go out 100's and 1000's of times and hardly see an older guy even step into a college club and I know of several older guys and their actual experience, what am i going to believe? Real experience or what someone says on the internet? These young girls roll in mixed groups and they are cliqy as fuk and the young guys they are with think they have social permission to try to tool older guys and ****block. I'm just not seeing many 30-40 year old guys breaking through all that and hooking up with the hot 21 year old as much as is claimed on here.

Age difference is an obstacle if even a societal created one. It's not even a debate if you say you can compensate for it with status, looking younger and this and that. The PU gurus promote that age and looks don't matter, but they are selling a line of bull.

 

[Jitterbug]

This shaming has got to the men's heads as well. Even guys around my age, when considering dating 18~20 y.o girls, would say that they're too young, that they don't have anything in common to talk about. Funny thing is that in the next breath, they'd complain about women (their targets, of the "right" age and all) not making any sense, talking too much etc.

 

[STR8UP]

What's all smoke and mirrors? Older men were not shamed in the past, at least not like anything like today.

I'm talking 40 years ago, not 400.

My view is looks or appearance is 90% of the game.

I would be inclined to argue this, but there is no way to prove it either way, so there is no point.

The main reason "the number" is a disadvantage and not an advantage is because of the age difference social convention hysteria.

Age is not like height or facial symmetry, which are 100% transparent to someone when you are face to face with them.

I do not deny the fact that society (old hags) shames women into believing that older men are less desirable, but I can tell you from experience that all shaming aside, at the end of the day age is much less of an issue than people make it out to be.

I just don't understand why you are so adamant about arguing that this age shaming doesn't exist and doesn't have an effect on older men.

I never said that.

Shaming DOES exist, but as with all other forms of shaming, nothing will completely counteract biology.

It's hard for a girl to look up to an older man when society is constantly hammering the message older guy+younger girl=creepy!. But when you throw in wealth and status, it's side-stepping the issue that age isn't an advantage in its self.

I already stated that age in and of itself is not an advantage.

But when a 34 yr old guy (me a few years ago) breaks up with a hot 21 yr. old, and his next "conquest" is a 20 yr. old, and he finds himself partying primarily with 20 something women, you have to acknowledge the fact that all the shaming in the world won't prevent a woman of ANY age being attracted to an older man.

I could show you pictures of the women I have partied with over the past few years, and most of them were in their early to mid 20's. I didn't sex all of them, but they all treated me as a peer, NOT a "creepy old guy".

I got to be honest, I've seen a lot of older guys trying and not getting anywhere.

I think a lot of this has to do with the fact that you were looking for it and not acknowledging the other side to the coin. I see guy of ALL ages getting rejected regardless of age. I have also heard the "He was creepy" line from these younger women when referring to an older guy they aren't attracted to, but ten minutes later another guy the same age comes up and he's "hot".

You can only look so young at age 40.

The stereotype works in your favor. If you are 40 and dress well and carry yourself with an air of youth, you can look a lot younger.

I'm sure genetics plays a role in this as does my own conscious decisions on how to present myself and act and dress, etc, but in the past six months off the top of my head I can recall bouncers at a couple of clubs being astonished at my age, several women of all ages commenting on how great I look for my age, and one cashier at a liquor store almost refusing to sell me alcohol because she thought I might be too young and giving her a fake ID.

Point is, you most definitely CAN look good at 35, 40, 45and up, and regardless of the shaming, women will always be more attracted to older men than younger men attracted to older women.

You got to understand, I see guys online make extraordinary claims of how they have all these 21 year old girls into them........These young girls roll in mixed groups and they are cliqy as fuk and the young guys they are with think they have social permission to try to tool older guys and ****block. I'm just not seeing many 30-40 year old guys breaking through all that and hooking up with the hot 21 year old as much as is claimed on here.

Well I don't know who you hang with or what the local "scene" is like there, but amongst my social circles (most of them anyway) the norm is 20 something women with 30 something men. Most of my buddies who are in their 30's roll almost exclusively with women who are 5-10+ years younger.

And as for the younger guys who try to c0ckblock.....I have gotten that in the recent past. They would walk into my rockstar pad and start complaining about how the vodka I served them "doesn't taste like Grey Goose" and sh!t. It's quite amusing because it is blatantly obvious that they are intimidated by me and simply grasping at straws to try to build themselves up. And we all know how THAT goes. A jealous hater always looks like an ass.

Age difference is an obstacle if even a societal created one. It's not even a debate if you say you can compensate for it with status, looking younger and this and that. The PU gurus promote that age and looks don't matter, but they are selling a line of bull.

All of that stuff DOES matter, but yea, you CAN compensate. Social pressure is often weak. This is possibly the weakest.

One generation of cougars basking in the glow of beta male supplication isn't going to wildly influence the natural order of things.

 

[MrLuvr]

My view is looks or appearance is 90% of the game.

In a club, you are right.

I got to be honest, I've seen a lot of older guys trying and not getting anywhere. You can only look so young at age 40. I don't believe for a minute that older men frabicated this obstacle in their own minds and out of thin air.

Were these older guys any good at getting girls when they were younger? How do you know the obstacle is that they are older? Many guys have a certain obstacle stuck in their head. It could be anything. I am bald, that is why I don't get girls. I am short, I am fat, I am Asian etc.. etc. The list goes on. Forget about older guys, how many guys do you see trying and not getting anywhere? I see 100s, even thousands of guys falling flat on their face.

You got to understand, I see guys online make extraordinary claims of how they have all these 21 year old girls into them. But there's nothing to back it up and it's blatantly obvious it's their ego talking. And when I go out 100's and 1000's of times and hardly see an older guy even step into a college club and I know of several older guys and their actual experience, what am i going to believe?

I think you are basing too much of your opinion on what happens in the clubs. Even most 20 something guys fail in a club. So, take the age out of it. A club is not the final indicator of society. I hardly go to clubs these days but I interact with 21 year olds all the time. There is one college girl who work at the coffee shop I go to, we flirt all the time. She always say "come back and see me" etc. You can meet them anywhere. Most guys that are succesful with younger women meet them outside the club environment where they have their guards down and are not "showing off" for their girlfriends.

Age difference is an obstacle if even a societal created one. It's not even a debate if you say you can compensate for it with status, looking younger and this and that. The PU gurus promote that age and looks don't matter, but they are selling a line of bull.

I will tell you one thing, if you don't look much older, i.e people don't mistake you for the girl's dad when they see you together, it makes it a lot easier.