How the decline in casual dinning parallels a man’s struggles in modern dating

[sangheilios]

I don't have low standards. I will never bang a fat chick and I typically will not even bother messaging anyone I consider under a 6. Usually 6's and 7's and a handful of 8's sprinkled in.

But nice try tho...of course any one who has success but you don't "must have low standards".

Perhaps I just actually know how to make women interested in meeting me and then interested in them fvcking me?

Nah...that can't be it tho...that's not possible...haha

Hint...knowing how to hold a conversation and being fun and exciting in your interactions with women goes a lot farther than most men think. Just a hint...just a hint

You realize getting all defensive over this just further validates my point. Having a notch count of 60 from OLD is actually incredibly high, and there is absolutely no way most of these women were at minimum slightly cute unless you are very attractive yourself, which at your age and 5'8" height is clearly not the case. IF your goal was to have sheer abundance and sexual volume, a guy could use OLD and go for women that are a couple or even several points below him and do quite well. However, a guy looking for around his level is not going to get this with OLD, basically a question of quality vs. quantity. The women you were fooling around with were in reality a range from 3-5, the 8s you describe were probably a couple 6s/slightly cute women. There's nothing wrong with this, just pointing out the nonsense for what it is.

A little hint for you, if you had said you met a handful of 6s-7s off of OLD that would be far more believable than claiming to have bedded several dozens. Just something for your next troll post.

OLD isn't about knowing how to have a conversation, it's entirely visual at first and just not being insanely creepy or weird when messaging. An example would be going immediately to sexual talk, etc.

 

[Solomon]

You realize getting all defensive over this just further validates my point. Having a notch count of 60 from OLD is actually incredibly high, and there is absolutely no way most of these women were at minimum slightly cute unless you are very attractive yourself, which at your age and 5'8" height is clearly not the case. IF your goal was to have sheer abundance and sexual volume, a guy could use OLD and go for women that are a couple or even several points below him and do quite well. However, a guy looking for around his level is not going to get this with OLD, basically a question of quality vs. quantity. The women you were fooling around with were in reality a range from 3-5, the 8s you describe were probably a couple 6s/slightly cute women. There's nothing wrong with this, just pointing out the nonsense for what it is.

A little hint for you, if you had said you met a handful of 6s-7s off of OLD that would be far more believable than claiming to have bedded several dozens. Just something for your next troll post.

OLD isn't about knowing how to have a conversation, it's entirely visual at first and just not being insanely creepy or weird when messaging. An example would be going immediately to sexual talk, etc.

Kinda projecting here, I got a buddy who used to my wingman and was 5'7 (140 pounds, skinny ripped) he did very well with OLD. According to this logic he was pulling fatties which was not the case, getting 6s and 7s depending on where you live and depending on the guy isn't that hard even with OLD. Also what you consider a 6 or 7 the next guy may not, I have gone out with guys on this forum in the past who consiered a chick hot that I wouldn't touch and vice versa different strokes for different folks

OLD IME really depends on your location and of course your looks. The better you look the higher the success rate. I'm not claiming every chick I've been with through OLD has been a 6+ that would be a lie, but I have noticed my success declines in certain locations (Miami, LA) and greatly improves in others (Chicago, Atlanta, Iowa, Nebraska etc)

 

[Pierce Manhammer]

Research is available on the phenomenon where individuals find it difficult to believe or understand something they have not personally experienced. This concept is often discussed in the fields of psychology and sociology and can be related to several cognitive biases and psychological theories:

1. Empathy Gap: This is a cognitive bias in which people underestimate the influence of visceral states on their own future behavior and decisions or on the behavior of others. It can make it difficult to understand and believe experiences they haven't personally experienced.
2. Personal Experience Bias: This bias occurs when people give undue weight to their own experiences and are less likely to believe information that contradicts their personal experiences. This can lead to skepticism about things outside their own realm of experience.
3. Confirmation Bias: This is the tendency to search for, interpret, and remember information in a way that confirms one's preconceptions. People may disbelieve or be skeptical of things they haven't experienced because it doesn't align with their existing beliefs.
4. Phenomenological Approach: In phenomenology, personal experience is emphasized as the primary source of knowledge. This philosophical perspective posits that individuals' understanding and beliefs are deeply rooted in their experiences.
5. Social and Cultural Factors: Sociological research also shows that social and cultural contexts significantly influence people's beliefs. People in different cultures or social groups might be more or less likely to believe in phenomena they haven't personally experienced based on the norms and values of their group.
6. Psychological Distance: The construal level theory suggests that the psychological distance from an event affects how abstractly or concretely people think about it. If something is very distant from someone's personal experience, they might find it harder to believe in or understand it concretely.

 

[sangheilios]

Kinda projecting here, I got a buddy who used to my wingman and was 5'7 (140 pounds, skinny ripped) he did very well with OLD. According to this logic he was pulling fatties which was not the case, getting 6s and 7s depending on where you live and depending on the guy isn't that hard even with OLD. Also what you consider a 6 or 7 the next guy may not, I have gone out with guys on this forum in the past who consiered a chick hot that I wouldn't touch and vice versa different strokes for different folks

OLD IME really depends on your location and of course your looks. The better you look the higher the success rate. I'm not claiming every chick I've been with through OLD has been a 6+ that would be a lie, but I have noticed my success declines in certain locations (Miami, LA) and greatly improves in others (Chicago, Atlanta, Iowa, Nebraska etc)

I'm sorry, man, but this random guy on the internet is most likely severely overexaggerating the results he's had with OLD. OLD sucks, always has and always will, and there is no way an otherwise normal tiered guy that was born in 1978 was/is pulling DOZENS of women from it that are 6+. The reality is he is either severely exaggerating his notch count from OLD and/or severely exaggerating how attractive these notches were. Attractive women, especially 7s and 8s, don't need to go on OLD apps or sites to get hookups or short term relationships. The reality is that he was pulling a lot of women that were average to below average. The ONLY exception to this is if he was quite attractive/handsome, tall, etc., which he isn't, OR was leading with money on a sugar baby type site.

I'd also add that perhaps he was just landing escorts and considers this "online dating", which you could consider it because they literally have online profiles like you'd see on a dating site lol.

I could be wrong, but I'm 90%+ positive that I've broken this down quite well and based upon his post history and what he discusses this even further validates my conclusion lol. Either way, it doesn't matter to me. If he was hooking up with a bunch of 3s-5s but wants to say they were 6-8 to make himself feel better it doesn't make a difference to me lol.

 

[sangheilios]

Research is available on the phenomenon where individuals find it difficult to believe or understand something they have not personally experienced. This concept is often discussed in the fields of psychology and sociology and can be related to several cognitive biases and psychological theories:

1. Empathy Gap: This is a cognitive bias in which people underestimate the influence of visceral states on their own future behavior and decisions or on the behavior of others. It can make it difficult to understand and believe experiences they haven't personally experienced.
2. Personal Experience Bias: This bias occurs when people give undue weight to their own experiences and are less likely to believe information that contradicts their personal experiences. This can lead to skepticism about things outside their own realm of experience.
3. Confirmation Bias: This is the tendency to search for, interpret, and remember information in a way that confirms one's preconceptions. People may disbelieve or be skeptical of things they haven't experienced because it doesn't align with their existing beliefs.
4. Phenomenological Approach: In phenomenology, personal experience is emphasized as the primary source of knowledge. This philosophical perspective posits that individuals' understanding and beliefs are deeply rooted in their experiences.
5. Social and Cultural Factors: Sociological research also shows that social and cultural contexts significantly influence people's beliefs. People in different cultures or social groups might be more or less likely to believe in phenomena they haven't personally experienced based on the norms and values of their group.
6. Psychological Distance: The construal level theory suggests that the psychological distance from an event affects how abstractly or concretely people think about it. If something is very distant from someone's personal experience, they might find it harder to believe in or understand it concretely.

Sorry, but @BackInTheGame78 , you and the others are delusional if you think some middle aged guy was pulling literally several DOZEN, specifically 60, women off of online dating that are 6+. 6+ implies that literally every single one was cute to even quite attractive or slightly hot lol. IF he actually had 60 women, the reality is that he probably had a handful of decent or cute women but the overwhelming majority were average at best, with a good portion that were quite below average, fat, etc.

 

[Pierce Manhammer]

Again, just because that's your experience in your locale does not mean it is his.

As I've said before, just because one sucks at life doesn't mean others do.

Those who can do, and those who cannot don't. Sorry bud.

You're clearly here to win the Internets, as opposed to having a sane discussion. You go man!

I'm sorry, man, but this random guy on the internet is most likely severely overexaggerating the results he's had with OLD. OLD sucks, always has and always will, and there is no way an otherwise normal tiered guy that was born in 1978 was/is pulling DOZENS of women from it that are 6+. The reality is he is either severely exaggerating his notch count from OLD and/or severely exaggerating how attractive these notches were. Attractive women, especially 7s and 8s, don't need to go on OLD apps or sites to get hookups or short term relationships. The reality is that he was pulling a lot of women that were average to below average. The ONLY exception to this is if he was quite attractive/handsome, tall, etc., which he isn't, OR was leading with money on a sugar baby type site.

I'd also add that perhaps he was just landing escorts and considers this "online dating", which you could consider it because they literally have online profiles like you'd see on a dating site lol.

I could be wrong, but I'm 90%+ positive that I've broken this down quite well and based upon his post history and what he discusses this even further validates my conclusion lol. Either way, it doesn't matter to me. If he was hooking up with a bunch of 3s-5s but wants to say they were 6-8 to make himself feel better it doesn't make a difference to me lol.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

You realize getting all defensive over this just further validates my point. Having a notch count of 60 from OLD is actually incredibly high, and there is absolutely no way most of these women were at minimum slightly cute unless you are very attractive yourself, which at your age and 5'8" height is clearly not the case. IF your goal was to have sheer abundance and sexual volume, a guy could use OLD and go for women that are a couple or even several points below him and do quite well. However, a guy looking for around his level is not going to get this with OLD, basically a question of quality vs. quantity. The women you were fooling around with were in reality a range from 3-5, the 8s you describe were probably a couple 6s/slightly cute women. There's nothing wrong with this, just pointing out the nonsense for what it is.

A little hint for you, if you had said you met a handful of 6s-7s off of OLD that would be far more believable than claiming to have bedded several dozens. Just something for your next troll post.

OLD isn't about knowing how to have a conversation, it's entirely visual at first and just not being insanely creepy or weird when messaging. An example would be going immediately to sexual talk, etc.

You have a lot to learn about social interactions, but you clearly have no interest in that so you keep being socially inept like you have been for the last many years based on your lack of results and wondering why women ghost you after the first date constantly.

People want to make OLD out to be this crazy hard, difficult thing when it's so freaking easy.

Just be cool, fun, normal and have your act and life together and plenty of women will be more than happy to meet up with you.

If you act like a weirdo or act desperate and/or needy then yeah, it's probably not going to go too well for you.

 

[sangheilios]

Again, just because that's your experience in your locale does not mean it is his.

As I've said before, just because one sucks at life doesn't mean others do.

Bro, the guy is middle aged AND 5'8" lol. I don't want to hear about this nonsense from you and the others, a guy like this is NOT going to stand out in any manner on an OLD site and will struggle greatly. Being born in 1978, he would have already been close to 40 by the time that OLD really took off. Prior to tinder and the other dating apps, OLD sites were very slim pickings back in the late 2000s and early 2010s, I distinctly remember this in the Boston area when I was in my late teens and early 20s. I wasn't living in some small town in Iowa, this was in one of the bigger metro areas of the country with a ton of universities.

Assuming he was not full blown making up that number of 60 notches, most of these women he landed from OLD were 30+ or even 40+. Many were single moms I'm sure and I'm also sure a good portion of these women were overweight/fat, as most women in this age range are lol. Those that weren't single moms were leftovers, and they are leftovers for a reason. He is saying otherwise to protect his ego, I totally understand it, but I'm pointing out the reality for what it is.

I've said this before, but if a man's goal is to be as sexually active and have as much abundance/variety as possible this is how you go about doing it. IF this is your goal, you have to be willing to drop your standards by a good bit and date down, I'm talking like a real life male 7 being willing to go for 4s. This same guy is not going to get anywhere near this sheer volume or abundance if he is specifically going for women around his level. He can get dates from them and even relationships, but he isn't going to be slaying left and right like the black pill guys think. Unless a man is a celebrity, pro athlete or exceptionally attractive, the overwhelming majority of men that are highly sexually active men are using a strategy like I'm discussing here. Some other exceptions I can immediately think of are nightclub promoters, djs, drug dealers, etc.

There's a reason why the term "slam pig" and "slump busters" come to mind when I describe this.

 

[BeExcellent]

The biggest problem I see with today's crop of 20-30yo men doesn't have anything to do with the government, boomers, or mediocre restaurants that greedy bastards run.

As you said, "the average man offers nothing of value to women outside a penis and provide and protect at best.

An average guy can't expect the results of someone that is above average. Just how it is. Work on improving your situation if you don't like it. This forum will teach you everything you need to know to be above average. It just won't do the work for you.

This^^^^.

The old lady has nothing to add really to the above.

I mean why go to Red Lobster if I can afford a more exclusive environment whose prices keep the riff raff out and who has better wine or other libations and is a better experience? In my area the high end places are booked out seven days a week. While Red Lobster and Outback struggle. Yeah you get a similar quality steak at Outback as you do at Ocean Club. But at Outback you get crap wine and a fried onion to accompany that good steak, whereas at Ocean Club you get a selection of high quality wines, good lobster mac & cheese & an exclusive experience.

If you don't like your dating options you have 4 choices.

1. Give up.
2. Accept the women who DO show interest in you (someone likes you out there).
3. Improve yourself to attract better options.
4. Combination of 2 & 3.

That's it.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Again, just because that's your experience in your locale does not mean it is his.

As I've said before, just because one sucks at life doesn't mean others do.

Those who can do, and those who cannot don't. Sorry bud.

You're clearly here to win the Internets, as opposed to having a sane discussion. You go man!

Clearly I must be doing something right and have something going for me considering my girlfriend is 26 and a stunner and she picked me up.

But I guess that must not be true either. Amazing how people on this forum act like having women interested in dating you is some foreign concept and is not believable.

 

[sangheilios]

You have a lot to learn about social interactions, but you clearly have no interest in that so you keep being socially inept like you have been for the last many years based on your lack of results and wondering why women ghost you after the first date constantly.

Bro, you realize those things you are citing are stories from way back in 2018 and 2019 lol? Do you also realize that continuing to get defensive over this and now bringing up something that has 0 relevance to this thread just continues to further validate the point I'm making?

You act like there is some secret recipe you have for OLD success and make these ridiculous claims of having a very high notch count from it, but not only that but every single one was attractive and NONE of them were fat or below average, let alone average/normal lol.

IF you aren't totally making up this number of having 60 lays from OLD, the reality is that the overwhelming majority of these women were average at best and many were very likely unattractive, fat, etc. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with this if your goal is having a high degree of sexual abundance and variety, this is exactly how you go about doing it. I'm not saying any of this to tear you down, I'm pointing out the reality for what it is. I personally know several guys in their 20s, not middle aged like you, that are decently attractive and highly sexually active from OLD and this is exactly what they do. Again, there is no shame in this if your goal is to have as much sex as possible with a variety of women. Many of the blackpill guys would honestly benefit from something like this.

 

[Hamurabimbi]

Sorry, but @BackInTheGame78 , you and the others are delusional if you think some middle aged guy was pulling literally several DOZEN, specifically 60, women off of online dating that are 6+. 6+ implies that literally every single one was cute to even quite attractive or slightly hot lol. IF he actually had 60 women, the reality is that he probably had a handful of decent or cute women but the overwhelming majority were average at best, with a good portion that were quite below average, fat, etc.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Bro, you realize those things you are citing are stories from way back in 2018 and 2019 lol? Do you also realize that continuing to get defensive over this and now bringing up something that has 0 relevance to this thread just continues to further validate the point I'm making?

You act like there is some secret recipe you have for OLD success and make these ridiculous claims of having a very high notch count from it, but not only that but every single one was attractive and NONE of them were fat or below average, let alone average/normal lol.

IF you aren't totally making up this number of having 60 lays from OLD, the reality is that the overwhelming majority of these women were average at best and many were very likely unattractive, fat, etc. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with this if your goal is having a high degree of sexual abundance and variety, this is exactly how you go about doing it. I'm not saying any of this to tear you down, I'm pointing out the reality for what it is. I personally know several guys in their 20s, not middle aged like you, that are decently attractive and highly sexually active from OLD and this is exactly what they do. Again, there is no shame in this if your goal is to have as much sex as possible with a variety of women. Many of the blackpill guys would honestly benefit from something like this.

I think they should raise their standards then. You'd be surprised what you can get when you believe you actually deserve it.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

View attachment 12670

Never used Tinder. Bumble, OKC for a while, POF for a while and Hinge were really good for me tho. OKC and POF are pretty much trash now tho.

 

[sangheilios]

Clearly I must be doing something right and have something going for me considering my girlfriend is 26 and a stunner and she picked me up.

But I guess that must not be true either. Amazing how people act like having women interested in dating you is some foreign concept and is not believable.

Right, a guy almost 50 years old that is 5'8" was picked up by a woman close to 20 years his junior, and not only that but she is also a "stunner". Do you have any idea how ridiculous of a claim this is to make? If living in this fantasy world makes you feel better about yourself I'm totally fine with it, I just don't have to buy into it.

 

[Solomon]

Bro, the guy is middle aged AND 5'8" lol. I don't want to hear about this nonsense from you and the others, a guy like this is NOT going to stand out in any manner on an OLD site and will struggle greatly. Being born in 1978, he would have already been close to 40 by the time that OLD really took off. Prior to tinder and the other dating apps, OLD sites were very slim pickings back in the late 2000s and early 2010s, I distinctly remember this in the Boston area when I was in my late teens and early 20s. I wasn't living in some small town in Iowa, this was in one of the bigger metro areas of the country with a ton of universities.

Assuming he was not full blown making up that number of 60 notches, most of these women he landed from OLD were 30+ or even 40+. Many were single moms I'm sure and I'm also sure a good portion of these women were overweight/fat, as most women in this age range are lol. Those that weren't single moms were leftovers, and they are leftovers for a reason. He is saying otherwise to protect his ego, I totally understand it, but I'm pointing out the reality for what it is.

I've said this before, but if a man's goal is to be as sexually active and have as much abundance/variety as possible this is how you go about doing it. IF this is your goal, you have to be willing to drop your standards by a good bit and date down, I'm talking like a real life male 7 being willing to go for 4s. This same guy is not going to get anywhere near this sheer volume or abundance if he is specifically going for women around his level. He can get dates from them and even relationships, but he isn't going to be slaying left and right like the black pill guys think. Unless a man is a celebrity, pro athlete or exceptionally attractive, the overwhelming majority of men that are highly sexually active men are using a strategy like I'm discussing here. Some other exceptions I can immediately think of are nightclub promoters, djs, drug dealers, etc.

There's a reason why the term "slam pig" and "slump busters" come to mind when I describe this.

I take everything with a grain of salt, I will be the first to admit I've banged more 4s via OLD than 8s.
However, I have learned a lot and seen a lot in life that you or other skeptics would call bullshyt. If I had not seen this with my own eyes I would think it would be lies for example

• 5'4 wingman who had a 50% pull rate at nightclubs/bars with girls 5s-7s and he was taking the bus to the bars/clubs
• 6 foot skinny average looking Asian guy, pulling the hottest white and Asian girls in the venue, once again wouldn't have believed it if I saw it with my own eyes consistently
• 5'7 guy who I mentor dates nothing but smoke shows and IG models (yes he is a millionaire but he doesn't lead with his wallet)
• A broke natural buddy who was making $10 an hour at Buckle living at his parent's house, pulling smoke shows and models and they were giving him thousands of dollars of pocket money
• My engineer buddy pulling cute chicks younger than him(some even half his age), the guy I thought was ugly but fucc what I thought women love this guy he has no problem even at 45 pulling cute chicks. All over the world, and if you saw a picture you would think he is ugly but this guy gets cute chicks, far above his looks match

These are things that if you would have told me before I saw it with my own eyes I would have called bullshyt. I'm not saying the guy is telling the truth all I'm saying is keep an open mind one guy's fantasy is actually another guy's reality!

 

[corrector]

Amazing how people on this forum act like having women interested in dating you is some foreign concept and is not believable.

Who said anything about acting?

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Right, a guy almost 50 years old that is 5'8" was picked up by a woman close to 20 years his junior, and not only that but she is also a "stunner". Do you have any idea how ridiculous of a claim this is to make? If living in this fantasy world makes you feel better about yourself I'm totally fine with it, I just don't have to buy into it.

5'8" in elite physical condition...let's not forget that. A nice body with some abs at a water park can do wonders when most of the guys are fat and out of shape...

You should get out more and live in the real world...things like this actually happen out there.

Maybe not to you, but you have to be able to have normal conversations with women first and foremost for that to even be a possibility.

When you believe you are worth it and confident that you are, women are drawn to that like a magnet. Maybe someday you'll get to experience it.

 

[sangheilios]

5'8" in elite physical condition...let's not forget that. A nice body with some abs at a water park can do wonders when most of the guys are fat and out of shape...

You should get out more and live in the real world...things like this actually happen out there.

Maybe not to you, but you have to be able to have normal conversations with women first and foremost for that to even be a possibility.

Again, if living in this fantasy world makes you feel better about yourself I'm totally fine with it, I just don't have to buy into it. By continuing to get defensive over all of this you are just further validating everything I have been saying.

 

[BeExcellent]

Research is available on the phenomenon where individuals find it difficult to believe or understand something they have not personally experienced. This concept is often discussed in the fields of psychology and sociology and can be related to several cognitive biases and psychological theories:

1. Empathy Gap: This is a cognitive bias in which people underestimate the influence of visceral states on their own future behavior and decisions or on the behavior of others. It can make it difficult to understand and believe experiences they haven't personally experienced.
2. Personal Experience Bias: This bias occurs when people give undue weight to their own experiences and are less likely to believe information that contradicts their personal experiences. This can lead to skepticism about things outside their own realm of experience.
3. Confirmation Bias: This is the tendency to search for, interpret, and remember information in a way that confirms one's preconceptions. People may disbelieve or be skeptical of things they haven't experienced because it doesn't align with their existing beliefs.
4. Phenomenological Approach: In phenomenology, personal experience is emphasized as the primary source of knowledge. This philosophical perspective posits that individuals' understanding and beliefs are deeply rooted in their experiences.
5. Social and Cultural Factors: Sociological research also shows that social and cultural contexts significantly influence people's beliefs. People in different cultures or social groups might be more or less likely to believe in phenomena they haven't personally experienced based on the norms and values of their group.
6. Psychological Distance: The construal level theory suggests that the psychological distance from an event affects how abstractly or concretely people think about it. If something is very distant from someone's personal experience, they might find it harder to believe in or understand it concretely.

True. Hell I get told around here all the time that my reality is impossible. Ok. Whatev. It remains my actual real life reality irrespective of someone's inability to wrap his brain around it (Shrugs).