How much do looks matter

[Hamurabimbi]

But here is the problem: A lot of average guys will just give up, thinking that they have no chance since they did not win the looks lottery. The fact is is they work hard, gym, diet, clothes, grooming etc they can go from a 5 to a 7. Then if their game is on point they can get 8's and maybe the 8.5 fairly regularly. A 3 can become a 5 and pull 7's.

Mindset is still very important for success. My best friend is completely bald and hitting his late 50's. He shaves his head and grew a tight small beard (kind of looks like Walter White). He is also a gym rat and BJJ black belt. He dresses extremely fashionably. He opens lots of women at the club...gets shot down a lot but he also has a good amount of success w/ decent looking women in their late 30's and 40's. His girlfriend...still quite attractive at 50 is madly in love with him and will do anything for him.

I don’t disagree with anything you said. Spot on.

 

[zekko]

According to Plato/Socrates, 10 don't exist in the real world, LOL.

I guess I'm in good company then. I like blond hair, brunette, black is nice. I really like red, partly because it's fairly rare. s

You mentioned Asian women. I've seen a study that showed that men of all races preferred Asian women. I haven't seen another study that replicated those results, but I could believe them. Asian women look extremely feminine. Generally speaking, of course.

 

[CheekyMonkey101]

The average woman has more sex appeal than the average man.

They are the sexual choosers and men have higher libidos and most have have to take what they can get.

 

[Dr_jitsu]

I guess I'm in good company then. I like blond hair, brunette, black is nice. I really like red, partly because it's fairly rare. s

You mentioned Asian women. I've seen a study that showed that men of all races preferred Asian women. I haven't seen another study that replicated those results, but I could believe them. Asian women look extremely feminine. Generally speaking, of course.

I heard that Captain Kirk was into Asian women.

 

[CornbreadFed]

But here is the problem: A lot of average guys will just give up, thinking that they have no chance since they did not win the looks lottery. The fact is is they work hard, gym, diet, clothes, grooming etc they can go from a 5 to a 7. Then if their game is on point they can get 8's and maybe the 8.5 fairly regularly. A 3 can become a 5 and pull 7's.

fricking preach!!! Unless the guy has obvious physical deformities, every guy can potentially be a 7-8. I can’t believe there’s guys that disagree with this concept.

 

[zekko]

I heard that Captain Kirk was into Asian women.

And green women.

 

[Plinco]

I've said it already. Your emotional state has a huge effect on the way you look. Some people call a good emotional state (inner) game, and that's why they claim that game>looks. Really it should be: emotional state --> looks --> emotional state.

 

[Dr_jitsu]

fricking preach!!! Unless the guy has obvious physical deformities, every guy can potentially be a 7-8. I can’t believe there’s guys that disagree with this concept.

Yes!!! There is so much a guy can do to improve his appearance. From there his personality (game) can do even more.

 

[Thebestthereeveris]

This is the wrong way to ask the question. It is not a numerical "How Much?". It's not that a good looking guy will get X more women than an average guy (he will). But. In reality, a good looking guy lives in a totally different world than an average guy. A good looking guy will have experiences that an average guy will have trouble even comprehending.

As an example, I'm a good looking guy. When I got a promotion, one of the employees, who was an actual model, hopped on my desk, stuck her a$$ in the air and said: 'do you need a sexratary?".

As another example, I linked up with a desert hiking group in SoCal. One of the participants was a 21 LVU y.o. student. Long story short. Without even knowing me, she hooked up with me in a motel in BFE within an hour of meeting me. We didn't do too much hiking.

I was a at a bar in the Marina in SF. As I was walking by, two girls called out: 'Come over here and talk to us!"

I could go on for days with stories.

The downside is, I'm not a very good BF nor a very good employee. I just get treated well because I'm decent looking.

post pic of yourself

 

[Hamurabimbi]

post pic of yourself

 

[MatureDJ]

According to Plato/Socrates, 10 don't exist in the real world, LOL. Also, it is a very individualized thing. Most guys like blonds. I like long straight black hair. Actually, I am super wierd...I like Asian women with caucasian features. Narrow nose, big round eyes, but the high cheekbones and full lips. Latinas too. Those half Spanish philipinas....yum.

When I was 36 I had a 21 year old Swedish girlfriend. Most guys ideal, long blonde hair, big blue eyes, tits, ass but I was always fantasizing about Asian women.

Mathematically speaking, the probability measure that someone would have a singularly perfect score is 0, which is termed "almost never". Speaking of "almost never", that would be the probability of me sexing a woman after telling her something like that, LOL.

 

[Plinco]

View attachment 14162

You're either full of feces or you have a very broad definition of 'god tier genetics'

Maybe your emotional state has a lot more to do with your good looks than your genetics. Good job on getting young women though.

 

[Thebestthereeveris]

View attachment 14162

i know why.

 

[SW15]

Mathematically speaking, the probability measure that someone would have a singularly perfect score is 0, which is termed "almost never". Speaking of "almost never", that would be the probability of me sexing a woman after telling her something like that, LOL.

It's not recommended to talk about mathematical concepts to women during initial seduction.

However, if a man were to be 6'0"+ and fit/muscular and discussed a mathematical concept, he might still get laid with an attractive woman.

It's well known that men in STEM occupations (who have a bachelor's degree + in some STEM field) struggle to get laid and to have longer term girlfriends. This is a function of both looks and personality. It's difficult to say which one hurts the SMV of STEM men more, but I would lean towards looks.

I am aware of some examples of reasonably good looking STEM guys achieving some sexual success.

 

[CornbreadFed]

However, if a man were to be 6'0"+ and fit/muscular and discussed a mathematical concept, he might still get laid with an attractive woman.

I have to disagree with this point. A man fitting this description could easily give a woman expecting a Chad bro the ick when he opens his mouth. If this complements his Superstar Bro Chad life then she will accept it, but if it his primary life then no.

 

[Dr_jitsu]

It's not recommended to talk about mathematical concepts to women during initial seduction.

However, if a man were to be 6'0"+ and fit/muscular and discussed a mathematical concept, he might still get laid with an attractive woman.

It's well known that men in STEM occupations (who have a bachelor's degree + in some STEM field) struggle to get laid and to have longer term girlfriends. This is a function of both looks and personality. It's difficult to say which one hurts the SMV of STEM men more, but I would lean towards looks.

I am aware of some examples of reasonably good looking STEM guys achieving some sexual success.

I agree, social scientists are probably going to be better conversationalists....but one advantage STEM guys have is much more earning potential.

 

[CornbreadFed]

I agree, social scientists are probably going to be better conversationalists....but one advantage STEM guys have is much more earning potential.

You are better off avoiding STEM and politics because these are the biggest pvssy driers known to man.

 

[SW15]

if a man were to be 6'0"+ and fit/muscular and discussed a mathematical concept, he might still get laid with an attractive woman.

I have to disagree with this point. A man fitting this description could easily give a woman expecting a Chad bro the ick when he opens his mouth. If this complements his Superstar Bro Chad life then she will accept it, but if it his primary life then no.

I can see your point about congruence here. A woman might get the ick over it. It depends on the context of the interaction.

I have 2 acquaintances that are STEM guys who have experienced some success in the mating environment. They were STEM majors in academia and have had STEM roles since graduation. I have indirectly mentioned both in "Pregnancy Announcements Everywhere".

The first one is around 5'11"-6'0", has had good facial aesthetics, and has been fit in the 12+ years I've known him. He could legitimately be called a 'Chad Lite'. I think many people would rate his looks in the 7-8 range, including someone like Wheat Waffles who rates looks on a regular basis. When I first met him, he was struggling to get poontang despite his solid looks and above average income as a 20 something from a STEM role. He got into some 6 month mini relationship. Soon after that, he got together with a different woman from a social circle setup. This was a woman I had interest in as well. A couple months before they got together, I had attempted to seduce her with my charisma at a private residence party. I don't think any of our mutual acquaintances had hyped me up to her. Although my charisma was there that night, everything was falling flat with her.

My STEM role acquaintance and this woman do get together and then eventually get married. They've been together over 10 years now and have children together. When they first met, her looks were average range to slightly cute by most men's ratings. I likely would have rated her in the low 6s at that point.

She is about 2 years older than he is. Despite the fact that he has good looks, it is possible that his STEM status cost him and he had to settle for an older woman. Additionally, she did not have sex with him that quickly. It took multiple months before they had sex for the first time. Seducers on this forum would not have waited that long for her pussie. The interaction has been blue pilled throughout its entirety.

The second STEM role acquaintance has a similar height. His physique is a little less shredded but its arguable that he has better facial aesthetics. I doubt that anyone would rate him an 8, but I could see Wheat Waffles and other guys rating him around a 7-7.5.

When I first met him in 2013, he was already in a relationship with the woman who is now his wife. He met her on a cold approach at a bar. I think he got to sex faster than the first guy mentioned. The woman's looks are similar to the woman in the first example, though I think the woman from the first example has a better face. This guy was able to seduce a woman slightly younger than he is off of a cold approach at a bar. In the ensuing years since 2013, her looks have dropped off somewhat but not that badly. She is a careerist woman who was in the middle of an advanced degree program (in a STEM field) when they first met.

The second example guy talking STEM stuff to the second example woman with a STEM bachelor's degree (and later a STEM master's degree) is probably why that worked. It is unknown how strong of a seducer he was prior to meeting his current girlfriend. I'm guessing he had around 1-2 notches from longer term girlfriends in the past. I've not directly ever talked with him about seduction topics.

You are better off avoiding STEM and politics because these are the biggest pvssy driers known to man.

Yes, that's true. I do not recommend most men discuss things STEM related or politics related in initial real life approaches or early stage dates.

After sex, it's possible to discuss those topics. Those will detract from looks advantages. Looks are more important than personality but this personality factor would not help.

social scientists are probably going to be better conversationalists....but one advantage STEM guys have is much more earning potential.

In terms of men with bachelor's degrees, men with business and social science/liberal arts degrees are going to be better conversationalists than men with STEM degrees.

Men with bachelor's degrees are more likely to be interacting with women with bachelor's degrees.

The men with high school diplomas and trade level certifications are more likely to be interacting with women with high school diplomas and trade certifications.

 

[john1234]

OP, looks don't matter that much.

 

[Hamurabimbi]

OP, looks don't matter that much.

Tactically, looks matter a lot. Strategically, less so.