How do you figure out what you league you are actually in?

[In2theGame]

I've had so many conflicting feedback experiences with this over the years to the point where I can't really figure out what league I am actually in.

I'm 6'4" and around 235-240, I've lifted and been into fitness just about my entire adult life so I'm obviously tall and have a good body.

I've been hit on by gay men many times as an adult, so obviously to them I'm "hot". I had one pull over when I was walking the dog and he complimented my looks. Had a couple hit on me at the gym, a few times at the bar, etc. I've been approached by attractive women that strangely enough were either married or in serious relationships.

Now, I've also had some experiences that would suggest the exact opposite. I've tried OLD and apps and I'd either get no matches/responses or I would just get matched with VERY unattractive women. I've approached literally just average women (4-5s) at bars and clubs and have gotten attitude.

I had a woman I know a few months back point out a pretty overweight woman and ask if I'd go out with her. My response was "Why would a guy that's 6'4", fit and takes care of himself date a woman like that?".

I'm not saying I belong on the cover of vogue magazine or that I'm entitled to the hottest women you see on instagram, obviously, but I can't really figure this out.

From my experience, if you really want to know your tier, start becoming bold and straight forward with what you want from sexy Women which would be Sex and see how they respond. Don't waste time wondering "what league am I in?" or "I wonder what kind of girls think I'm hot", You're just doing mental Olympics at this point.

If you're on the high end of attractiveness, don't even worry about OLD because you don't need it. If you live out in a very small town then OK, i get why you'd want to use it but if your area has a good amount of Women, don't bother. (Considering the Pandemic, I understand you're using it now but im talking about when things get back to normal) I know this very well because I used to think things similar to this "What league am I in?" but it was evident what level I was on when I was consistently hooking up with some very hot Women and how I could walk into a bar or party and leave with a cute chick within 30 minutes, etc. You'll have Women getting close to you and staring at you. If you have a lean muscular physique, expect to be molested by Women by them touching you when in close vicinity (This mostly happened at parties and bars) Even if you get "rejected" it will almost always be a soft rejection that includes a complement such as "You're really hot but sorry i have a BF/married" or "Sorry I'm taken but you're damn handsome" etc. Many times though they'll flirt heavy with you even if they are taken but will flake later because they just wanted to feel good that an attractive Man wants them.

I've heard it all from Women dude, From over hearing "Damn! he's sexy as hell" to getting told straight out "I've been eye fvcking you from across the room" and on and on. Once i realized how many Women found me highly attractive, I had absolutely no reason to hold back on approaching any female or groups of them and telling them I wanted them. You of course have to be smooth about it because in a way, your looks have to be congruent with your interaction and the way you communicate. Kind of like, Ive been there and done that countless times. Women expect your looks to match a smooth approach that know how to verbally seduce them. They think this because if they think you're hot, they automatically assume you have been with a ton of other Women.

Make no mistake, you will still get rejected but you'll still do very very well in the dating/sex department. When you know, you know. Just go for it and you'll find out.

 

[malz1]

To specifically address the questions you mentioned;

When I have approached women a lot of the time I get this awkward stare from them where they don't really have anything to say and it gets awkward so I just abort right then and there. I have gotten compliments from women randomly, do have women check me out but they are subtle about it.

Like I said, I've approached average and below average women and I get attitude and it seems to result in nothing but then I've been asked out and/or approached by 8s and 9s.

OK. Many guys think they're above average seeing few results but they're just normal guys. You probably fall into intimidatingly hot. Pretty much all women are within your league w/ exception to those solely looking for a celebrity. If you want blatant attraction then gain some fat and dress down to lower yourself into the hot category. Else, improve your social skills.

 

[Clamslammer]

OK. Many guys think they're above average seeing few results but they're just normal guys. You probably fall into intimidatingly hot. Pretty much all women are within your league w/ exception to those solely looking for a celebrity. If you want blatant attraction then gain some fat and dress down to lower yourself into the hot category. Else, improve your social skills.

Don't do this, never bring yourself down to other peoples level. You are doing fine dude. The mindset you need to have is you have no leagues...when you interact with a girl she is not better or worse than you and vice versa you are not better or worse than her. When you become comfortable with yourself you will walk around with this confidence and people will notice it and you will not come off as arrogant either.

 

[malz1]

I use to be like you as I started to question myself because I started having these weird interactions with girls where they would basically treat me like they would a guy they don't like but their eyes and body language was telling me otherwise. As I got older my confidence grew as I became more successful in life and comfortable with myself so I could actually walk up to any girl and talk and ask her out but girls would blow themselves out in one form or another due to nerves and it was not because I was a douche either. Ping me if you have any questions as it seems like we face the same issues.

From the sounds of it you seem to be discouraged and are starting to question yourself like I did. There is nothing wrong with you, just keep working on yourself and putting yourself out there.

One thing I noticed the cute homely girls will be really insecure and nervous with you and usually autoreject you sometimes they cannot even make eye contact. The hotter girls are even worse, if you don't give them attention like every thristy guy out there they will just treat you like crap to test your confidence.

The solution points are obvious when you find them but I have this thing about sharing precise advice among this 'league' simply bcus it'll take away my competitive advantages. Information spreads too quickly online lol. I'd rather help people where favorable results happen for them but that they're still unable to describe how exactly it works.

 

[malz1]

Don't do this, never bring yourself down to other peoples level. You are doing fine dude. The mindset you need to have is you have no leagues...when you interact with a girl she is not better or worse than you and vice versa you are not better or worse than her. When you become comfortable with yourself you will walk around with this confidence and people will notice it and you will not come off as arrogant either.

He can if he wishes. Most healthy men have a belly on them so it's not a big deal. Personal pride on this matter is really subjective. It's but an option anyways with the recommended one being to "improve his social skills" acknowledging that he has personal fitness goals. And I disagree with "leagues" not existing at least w/ women. Women believe in leagues and date accordingly.

 

[Robert28]

Avg ones might make it harder because you make them insecure.

I’m no Chad by any means. It doesn’t make any sense though that an average girl friendzones me or turns me down but a girl way better in looks is more receptive towards me.

 

[lamath]

I feel like i have experience something similar than you when i was in my 20s.
Things changed and women became more direct qhen i got closer to 40.
I think my vibe was not attractive, i think i often look out of place and not very approachable.
I also think you should learn to spot inderect signs of interest, man i missed so many when younger. Many vids on youtube on this.
You know when you think a women i checking you out, she is more than likely checking you out.



I would not put much weight on OLD result, did you put a picture of yourself in @cola thread?


I truly think that your problem is something very minor. Pretty sure it not look, but sometuing more subtle.

 

[Black Widow Void]

To specifically address the questions you mentioned;

When I have approached women a lot of the time I get this awkward stare from them where they don't really have anything to say and it gets awkward so I just abort right then and there. ........
..... I've approached average and below average women and I get attitude and it seems to result in nothing but then I've been asked out and/or approached by 8s and 9s.

Here's some "A" and/or "B" food for thought:

A: There's a misconception that women are attracted to "jerks" or abusive types. Truth is... the majority are not. Instead, they are attracted to other elements of this particular man and the negative traits are often a by-product.
I bring this up because we men are not exempt from these repercussions. Too often, we believe there's a particular negative pattern with women ... only to discover that it's also a by-product of a certain "type" of woman that we find attractive.
I wonder if this might apply to the women that you are approaching.

B: If the above doesn't apply (or isn't a variable) you might want to look at your approach.
To give an example; I enjoy discussing philosophical things or ironic observations, but guess what? Most women do not find such an 'ice-breaker' as welcoming conversation. I sure wish that they did, but their reaction has usually 'communicated' otherwise.
In actuality, their rejection is doing you a favor. You are being 'told' that this approach is not effective and to try another one.

What appears to work for me, may not work for everyone. I don't say this out of arrogance, but because of a certain type I find attractive and also my delivery.
Because I'm a bit of a non-conformist, I look for unique distinctions in a woman and verbalize the observation. I don't always close the sale (no one bats 100%) but it's usually a welcomed ice-breaker... and as a result, their walls begin to drop.

 

[Robert28]

Yet I get constant criticism from jealous men and older women for "only going for looks"...I'm like what you all are seeing as results are the ones that said yes, not the 500 5s that said no

I mean it’s not my job to try to convince some broken damaged woman in her 30’s to give me a chance when a girl in her 20’s isn’t making me jump through endless hoops. Of course I’m going to take the easier route. I’ve had women show low interest in me because they ASSumed I didn’t have any options. Then I move on and a week later I’m dating someone younger and prettier. Just because I don’t broadcast my options doesn’t mean I don’t have them. You had your shot with me, you chose to friendzone me or make me chase you endlessly. I don’t have trouble meeting women, I’m just not the type of guy that lets it be known that I have options. I give you enough rope to hang yourself with.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

Yet I get constant criticism from jealous men and older women for "only going for looks"...I'm like what you all are seeing as results are the ones that said yes, not the 500 5s that said no

Oh brother. They will actively c0ck block and damage you. They feel like you invalidate them.

 

[oc16]

I've had so many conflicting feedback experiences with this over the years to the point where I can't really figure out what league I am actually in.

I'm 6'4" and around 235-240, I've lifted and been into fitness just about my entire adult life so I'm obviously tall and have a good body.

I've been hit on by gay men many times as an adult, so obviously to them I'm "hot". I had one pull over when I was walking the dog and he complimented my looks. Had a couple hit on me at the gym, a few times at the bar, etc. I've been approached by attractive women that strangely enough were either married or in serious relationships.

Now, I've also had some experiences that would suggest the exact opposite. I've tried OLD and apps and I'd either get no matches/responses or I would just get matched with VERY unattractive women. I've approached literally just average women (4-5s) at bars and clubs and have gotten attitude.

I had a woman I know a few months back point out a pretty overweight woman and ask if I'd go out with her. My response was "Why would a guy that's 6'4", fit and takes care of himself date a woman like that?".

I'm not saying I belong on the cover of vogue magazine or that I'm entitled to the hottest women you see on instagram, obviously, but I can't really figure this out.

Leagues? Try telling that to all the short and/or out of shape, balding or non-handsome face looking guys that I see with a woman noticeably better looking then themselves.

I see this quite often, not here and there.

 

[SW15]

At 6'4", 240 lbs, and fit/muscular, that is top tier.

 

[oldmanofthesea]

From my observation and experience, it all comes down to attitude. Once you have done what you can to maximize your looks, working within the body/genetics you were born with (IE you have good hair style, teeth are white and straight, good groomed facial hair or no facial hair, good skin, smell good, low body fat, dress well, etc), beyond that it's ALL attitude.

Women select the best, strongest, most successful men they can find. Social success/standing is a HUGE part of that. Remember the most popular guys in high school that got all the girls? They were generally not ugly, but also often not the most attractive. But they got all the girls because they were at the top of the social circle (the circle being the high school). Lack of confidence and lack of social ability with awkwardness is a major, major turn-off for women. You can be a model but if your social skills don't match your looks, you are incongruent and it causes women's alarms to go off. In their mind, consciously or subconsciously they are likely thinking, "Woah, this guy is HOT but he's shy and awkward - that doesn't add up... something must be wrong with him. Now even though I'm looking at the same physical attributes, I suddenly don't see him as hot anymore. He's kind of gross."

Social skills take time to develop. If you only have 2 out of 30 years of experience being very social, you will have a ways to go. It's ok - we all start somewhere. It will pay off dividends in your happiness, work success, and everywhere in your life. You might even consider getting a sales job... even part time, and taking sales training classes. Sales people are usually very tuned-in to social dynamics and they tend to be very confident and like to bust each other's chops as part of the fun of working together. Get involved in more social events... like sports, various clubs, toastmasters. Try to host some things.... host/organize some parties or frisbee games at the park or camping trips with people or hikes, etc. And focus on being comfortable with long, sustained eye contact. If there are some things you are naturally talented in, or think you would be, that involve competition with others, that can be a great way to both build your confidence (by demonstrating your abilities), as well as developing your social skills.

To more directly answer your question: Determining your league, or SMV, is easy: You look at the women you are able to sleep with and that's your current league. By improving yourself, you can go up in league. If your looks are a 10 and you can only get with 2s, then you are a 2. This is with real-world dating, not just online dating (online dating will skew your numbers further down). Leagues are not based solely on looks. It's the whole package combined. You can be a 5 in looks and get 8s and 9s if everything else is extremely strong. That means you are an 8 or a 9 yourself, even if your looks aren't. Again, it's the whole package.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

Leagues? Try telling that to all the short and/or out of shape, balding or non-handsome face looking guys that I see with a woman noticeably better looking then themselves.

I see this quite often, not here and there.

I agree!

 

[andreihaha]

Here's some "A" and/or "B" food for thought:

A: There's a misconception that women are attracted to "jerks" or abusive types. Truth is... the majority are not. Instead, they are attracted to other elements of this particular man and the negative traits are often a by-product.
I bring this up because we men are not exempt from these repercussions. Too often, we believe there's a particular negative pattern with women ... only to discover that it's also a by-product of a certain "type" of woman that we find attractive.
I wonder if this might apply to the women that you are approaching.

B: If the above doesn't apply (or isn't a variable) you might want to look at your approach.
To give an example; I enjoy discussing philosophical things or ironic observations, but guess what? Most women do not find such an 'ice-breaker' as welcoming conversation. I sure wish that they did, but their reaction has usually 'communicated' otherwise.
In actuality, their rejection is doing you a favor. You are being 'told' that this approach is not effective and to try another one.

What appears to work for me, may not work for everyone. I don't say this out of arrogance, but because of a certain type I find attractive and also my delivery.
Because I'm a bit of a non-conformist, I look for unique distinctions in a woman and verbalize the observation. I don't always close the sale (no one bats 100%) but it's usually a welcomed ice-breaker... and as a result, their walls begin to drop.

I don't quite agree with you on the B part.
Their rejection is doing you a favor, yes. But from another point of view, I feel. If they reject you because of your style, maybe they're not right for you. You don't have to completely change your approach just because of a few rejections.

I've never been a serial dater, I usually have a LTR and when that doesn't work no more, I'm going out with a few girls to see if any seem like what I want in a woman. So I just next them until I find a new LTR.
Usually I go out with a few, let's say 5-7 chicks. Yeah, maybe some don't seem to enjoy my way of interacting, but I ain't changing for some random chick's validation.

 

[andreihaha]

I've had so many conflicting feedback experiences with this over the years to the point where I can't really figure out what league I am actually in.

I'm 6'4" and around 235-240, I've lifted and been into fitness just about my entire adult life so I'm obviously tall and have a good body.

I've been hit on by gay men many times as an adult, so obviously to them I'm "hot". I had one pull over when I was walking the dog and he complimented my looks. Had a couple hit on me at the gym, a few times at the bar, etc. I've been approached by attractive women that strangely enough were either married or in serious relationships.

Now, I've also had some experiences that would suggest the exact opposite. I've tried OLD and apps and I'd either get no matches/responses or I would just get matched with VERY unattractive women. I've approached literally just average women (4-5s) at bars and clubs and have gotten attitude.

I had a woman I know a few months back point out a pretty overweight woman and ask if I'd go out with her. My response was "Why would a guy that's 6'4", fit and takes care of himself date a woman like that?".

I'm not saying I belong on the cover of vogue magazine or that I'm entitled to the hottest women you see on instagram, obviously, but I can't really figure this out.

There are already a few guys here that said you might be intimidating to women. Could be.
I also got a lot of "How many girls have you had sex with?" or "I thought you were a jerk when I first saw you". A certain percent of the guys here project that kind of image. But, as long as you are making your intentions clear, women have no reason to feel intimidated.

You probably find quite a few women you know intimidating, right?
But what if one of them came to you and said" Hey, my name is RandomSexyChick69. Wanna go out sometimes? You seem like an interesting guy."?
Would you feel intimidated? No. You'll feel like your on top of the world and your confidence would be through the roof.
Try to make them feel the same way.

 

[Mike32ct]

I think leagues are real, and women have them. But each chick has her own league standards (known only to her and maybe her closest friends). So results can sometimes be all over the place, even for some good looking guys.

In other words, chicks are the “professors” of the classes, but they don’t hand you a syllabus with their grading percentage scheme, e.g. 50% height, 25% face, 10% hair, 10% job/income, 5% personality. So you don’t know exactly HOW you are being graded or why some other guy passed the class and you got an F or Incomplete lol.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

I think leagues are real, and women have them. But each chick has her own league standards (known only to her and maybe her closest friends). So results can sometimes be all over the place, even for some good looking guys.

In other words, chicks are the “professors” of the classes, but they don’t hand you a syllabus with their grading percentage scheme, e.g. 50% height, 25% face, 10% hair, 10% job/income, 5% personality. So you don’t know exactly HOW you are being graded or why some other guy passed the class and you got an F or Incomplete lol.

When a guys game is on point he's the professor. He grades her.

 

[Lynx nkaf]

When a guys game is on point he's the professor. He grades her.

that would be interesting to learn...guys' grading percentages.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

that would be interesting to learn...guys' grading percentages.

Women identify who is "on point", and they fall in line.