How can one be good with women if your not that attractive?

[PrettyBoyAJ]

Floyd and Mike, you got to define looks first of all. What do you mean by looks?

If your talking about if a dude's face is handsome or not I got to disagree. If it's about appearance and presence I can agree with that.

 

[floydb25]

Mike: And that's what causes a lot of bitterness. This is the worst part of it all. They feel deceived, and lied to. They gotta just realize everyone does it. Even themselves. Never put any faith into what people claim about anything. Ever. That's all you need to do. Otherwise you're just going to hate everyone, and make yourself miserable. Just accept human nature, or move to Mars.

Nothing is ever as it seems. A lot of people aren't as they claim. Become a better judge of character, accept reality, and weed through the BS. Don't become angry over other people's actions, and how they mismatch their claims. This is a waste of time and emotion. Nobody is as they claim.

 

[floydb25]

Floyd and Mike, you got to define looks first of all. What do you mean by looks?

If your talking about if a dude's face is handsome or not I got to disagree. If it's about appearance and presence I can agree with that.

I'm talking about the face. I've seen guys dress well, be fit, and get rejected for not being hot enough. Whereas, guys would be wearing garbage, but still have tons of women because they were hot. All of my friends who were successful with women were attractive in the face. All of them. Not many of them had great bodies or clothing, either.

One time I was dating a girl, and I said my teeth are horrible. And they were. But she said they weren't. She loved them, even though they were ****. All because she thought I was hot. They put up with so much ****, and become infatuated so fast if you're good looking. They go crazy over looks. Women get crushes, too.

This is also the same for men and women. We would also date a cute girl who dresses well, takes care of her appearance, has a good body, and all this, but who do we go crazy for? The hot chick. She makes our blood boil. This is who we become infatuated with. It doesn't matter if she's wearing pajamas. Same with women. Of course they're going to date a guy who has all these things, and also looks good / presentable, but its the hot guy that makes her vag tingle.

The face is #1.

 

[youngmack]

Yes yes, actual experience that looks do matter and come first with women? Or Myths and philosophies that looks dont matter ..which wins? Obviously the experience, i thought this was only for my age group 14-19 but now i realized its like this for almost all women, looks do matter and most of time makes up for lack of game and personality, its just what it is...we have to just accept this and just live life and try to be as attractive as we can be all while improving ourselves and becoming the best man we can be.

 

[Naughty Ninja]

The only thing you can do is always look your best. Hygene, clothes, shoes/sneakers, work out, and have things going for yourself.

As far as posters saying looks doesn't matter over 'game'. From personal experience you can be funny, have good game, etc. but if the next dude is way better looking, taller...you become the chicks ego boost and safety net while she secretly or publicly pines after the "God".

Throughout my life I've wound up friends with loads of extremely good looking dudes and trust me..chicks literally tripped over themselves to be the next to get with them. Every other dude knew that all the chicks were talking about the "God" and they were auto-friendzoned. The dudes that tried...were the 'perverts', 'creepers', and orbiters that never stood a chance in the chicks eyes but served the ego purpose.

After personally witnessing it time and time and time again. You become immune to it and know full well chicks lie and want what will make all the other chicks 'jealous'.

Again though all you can do is be the best person you can be.

 

[floydb25]

Naughty: agreed. I knew a guy who had a "hot" brother... They were both friends of mine. Girls just used one brother to get to the other. Constantly. He was always friend-zoned and discarded. I witnessed this a LOT, as well - with many different people. The girls would act so differently when it was an average vs hot guy. That determined interest vs non.

If you're decent looking, in shape, confident, etc, of course you can still have success. But you probably won't be having hotties all around you, knocking on your door, waiting to ****. But you can still get lots of cuties, and some hotties. Leagues really do exist. But they don't mean much once you eliminate the shallowness. A lot of hot girls are fake, anyway. Both in appearance and personality. They're not all they're cracked up to be, and certainly aren't worth changing yourself over. Nor are they worth getting angry over. Most of them are losers - based on their environment, social crowds, and upbringing. Why get worked up over this? Do you go crazy ape**** when this jerkoff guy over there is worthless? Probably not. Just because a girl is hot - doesn't mean you have to start caring about all of her nonsense garbage.

 

[Young Stallion]

I absolutely agree with this thread. Running game, being smoothe, being funny, ****y and playing hard to get dont mean nothin if your not considered hot by girls.

Think about the concept of missing someone. The only way you can play hard to get and make them miss you is if they want you in the first place.....if your not hot then it wont work because they wont care....because your not hot.

 

[PrettyBoyAJ]

White people must be totally different then black people.

I've seen some pimp dudes that look like Gary Coleman pull dime piece broads with their mouthpiece. We can sit here and debate this all day but at the end of the day we really can't control how our facial structure is unless you have surgery.

So my advice to everyone here is make sure their clothe game and physique is to shape.

 

[FairShake]

I've said it once, I'll say it again. Some of you need female friends.

Talk to some females. Find out the difference between cute/handsome and sexy.

A below average looking guy can, with a little charm, smarts, passion, and style, become a sexy guy to many girls.

Will they ever have it as easy as extremely handsome guys? No. Does it matter what they get?

 

[Poonani Maker]

Hot is being stupid or dumb, yet always getting laid. Chicks get off on a Dumb, Dumb (or dumb-acting stoner loser) guy, even if he's late 30s. I know cause I can play that role, you know, just the brain dead male, but she wants to fvck me anyway cause she's not all that bright either. It's debasement. You go low, you get ho.

 

[Naughty Ninja]

Naughty: agreed. I knew a guy who had a "hot" brother... They were both friends of mine. Girls just used one brother to get to the other. Constantly. He was always friend-zoned and discarded. I witnessed this a LOT, as well - with many different people. The girls would act so differently when it was an average vs hot guy. That determined interest vs non.

If you're decent looking, in shape, confident, etc, of course you can still have success. But you probably won't be having hotties all around you, knocking on your door, waiting to ****. But you can still get lots of cuties, and some hotties. Leagues really do exist. But they don't mean much once you eliminate the shallowness. A lot of hot girls are fake, anyway. Both in appearance and personality. They're not all they're cracked up to be, and certainly aren't worth changing yourself over. Nor are they worth getting angry over. Most of them are losers - based on their environment, social crowds, and upbringing. Why get worked up over this? Do you go crazy ape**** when this jerkoff guy over there is worthless? Probably not. Just because a girl is hot - doesn't mean you have to start caring about all of her nonsense garbage.

I've seen it most recently at my part time job. The dude who's pictures I used for the POF experiment worked there. Literally the hottest chicks of ALL ages were after the guy. People's mothers who also worked there constantly made sure to talk to him, customers almost on a daily basis handing him phone numbers, hot cosmetic chicks in 'love' with him, he banged a few and was offered a threesome by two of the chicks who were bi that worked there.

I get my fair share of numbers, girls wanting to hang out etc. I'm about a 7 i'd say. But this dude it was RIDICULOUS.

I'd put that dude in a club with the BEST 'gamers' and PUA's and I would guarantee if he was seen by the chicks that other dudes were trying to game...It would be game over. Literally.

But in the end when you know chicks are full of it...you become immune to the nonsense and honestly don't give a crap about what they think. As it's been said..the only thing you can do is be the best person you can be and keep on keepin on. Actions from chicks >>> words anyday.


*** On a side note: If you feel like you aren't meeting enough chicks..take a part time job in the best department store in your area. Hell... ask chicks which high end department store they shop in as an opener for you looking for a part time job to make extra money. Women's shoes is a friggin gold mine for meeting tons of new chicks...every time you work...plus meeting chicks who work there, new chicks working there...you'll meet so many you won't know what the hell to do with yourself. More chicks...more money. WINNING.

 

[Young Stallion]

yeah its the Ashton Kutcher character from "That 70's Show". Its part of the "booboisie" value system being imposed on us. I swear I was brainwashed to hide my intellect from everyone growing up and act like an idiot until I got to grad school. I am still uncomfortable with going all out intellectually.

It depends on how goes all out intellectually.

If someone goes all out and speaks techno jargon that no one understands then of course it is not going to sound right.

The trick is to take the ideas and principles that you are aware of and articulate them in to every day lehmans terms that are concise and easy to understand in a linear way. The difference between a boring speaker and an interesting speaker is this ability to communicate effectively.

 

[Mike32ct]

AJ: I gotta catch up on this thread. To answer your question, I define looks broadly as the whole physical package: face+height+hair+arms+shoulders+chest. (Hair could also mean shaved or buzzed head.)

Do I include clothes? I think clothes are a bonus and add to your looks ONLY if you're at least a decent looking dude. But put hot clothes on an ugly dude and it doesn't do much.

There is a big debate over face vs body. But I think they are somewhat related. A toned body usually has a toned face too. Although it's possible to have a genetically handsome face but not be in good shape.

Presence or swagger, I would put in the same category as clothing. I don't think it will help an ugly dude that much, but a guy that is at least decent looking can gain from it. It's icing on the cake.

 

[Young Stallion]

How about, do not admit to 99% of women that you read a book instead of going out 3 nights in a row?

This is part of what I mean from effective communication.

Books bore people, dont tell someone "yeah I sat at home and read a book last night" this will make people yawn. However when the time is appropriate definitely articulate what you read in a book and how it applies to the situation you are in.

For example you are in Rome with a girl and somehow stumble upon The Coliseum which of course you have read about in the book. Tell the girl about the building and some of the cool battles they used to have there.

 

[Atom Smasher]

A lot of this comes from the mistaken belief that men can be universally attractive to women. We cannot. Different women have different tastes in men. The super-young girls in their early twenties haven't even fully developed yet, so in their simple-mindedness they will be more prone to going for innate good looks. Later their tastes refine to this type of man or that. Remember that, young 'uns. As they get older their attention shifts from innate good looks and they start to understand the value of character. Not a lot, but it's a start. It does change the game.

You can't, in general appeal to all types. I personally believe that much stress and anguish comes about by believing the lie that we "should" appeal to all women. Impossible.

Innate, classic good looks is nothing more than an analog for the proverbial salesman's foot in the door. Once that foot goes in the door, he'd better have something to say.

Better is to make sure you're selling a quality product that appeals to many, but not all consumers. That means you are well-groomed. You are clean. You dress well. Your shoes are clean and cool looking (VERY important to women). Women will cold-read you based on your shoes. You demonstrate self-respect. If you demonstrate self respect most women will respect you because they take all their cues from the outside. Inside is little more than rainbows, unicorns and sparkles in most, but not all cases.

Men derive their substance from the inside. His character is like the strength of a skeleton that is inside a mammal, giving substance and form to the body.

She, conversely is like a mollusk with an exoskeleton. Her character is shaped from outside infuences (i.e. other people's opinions). All the squishy stuff is on the inside and contained by the shape of the outer infuences.

Therefore you can shape her opinion of you by demonstrating your opinion of yourself. If you don't think you're good-looking, get every thought about that out of your head. Absolutely refuse to believe it. Just as a woman can enhance her sexuality by plastering her face with putty and paint, so can a man enhance his by the judicious use of clothing and hygeine.

When was was the last time you polished your armour, sir?

Do looks matter? Absolutely, in the first few seconds of attraction. Few men realize that all they have to do is polish their armour to gain a huge advantage. The face inside matters little if at all. It is the armour that sparkles, and girls really like sparkly things.

Is it not true that we are actually atttracted to face paint, hair, and other affectations? Is it not true that an ugly girl cam make herself look feminine with paint and putty?

There are three basic tenets here to take with you:

1) Presentation
2) Presentation
3) Presentation

Memorize and implement those three basic tenets, and watch your success increase, and not only with women.

 

[Ihateinitiatingalot7]

A lot of this comes from the mistaken belief that men can be universally attractive to women. We cannot. Different women have different tastes in men. The super-young girls in their early twenties haven't even fully developed yet, so in their simple-mindedness they will be more prone to going for innate good looks. Later their tastes refine to this type of man or that. Remember that, young 'uns. As they get older their attention shifts from innate good looks and they start to understand the value of character. Not a lot, but it's a start. It does change the game.

You can't, in general appeal to all types. I personally believe that much stress and anguish comes about by believing the lie that we "should" appeal to all women. Impossible.

Innate, classic good looks is nothing more than an analog for the proverbial salesman's foot in the door. Once that foot goes in the door, he'd better have something to say.

Better is to make sure you're selling a quality product that appeals to many, but not all consumers. That means you are well-groomed. You are clean. You dress well. Your shoes are clean and cool looking (VERY important to women). Women will cold-read you based on your shoes. You demonstrate self-respect. If you demonstrate self respect most women will respect you because they take all their cues from the outside. Inside is little more than rainbows, unicorns and sparkles in most, but not all cases.

Men derive their substance from the inside. His character is like the strength of a skeleton that is inside a mammal, giving substance and form to the body.

She, conversely is like a mollusk with an exoskeleton. Her character is shaped from outside infuences (i.e. other people's opinions). All the squishy stuff is on the inside and contained by the shape of the outer infuences.

Therefore you can shape her opinion of you by demonstrating your opinion of yourself. If you don't think you're good-looking, get every thought about that out of your head. Absolutely refuse to believe it. Just as a woman can enhance her sexuality by plastering her face with putty and paint, so can a man enhance his by the judicious use of clothing and hygeine.

When was was the last time you polished your armour, sir?

Do looks matter? Absolutely, in the first few seconds of attraction. Few men realize that all they have to do is polish their armour to gain a huge advantage. The face inside matters little if at all. It is the armour that sparkles, and girls really like sparkly things.

Is it not true that we are actually atttracted to face paint, hair, and other affectations? Is it not true that an ugly girl cam make herself look feminine with paint and putty?

There are three basic tenets here to take with you:

1) Presentation
2) Presentation
3) Presentation

Memorize and implement those three basic tenets, and watch your success increase, and not only with women.

then what is all of those arguments, debates, about women not valuing looks as much as men do?

 

[youngmack]

White people must be totally different then black people.

I've seen some pimp dudes that look like Gary Coleman pull dime piece broads with their mouthpiece. We can sit here and debate this all day but at the end of the day we really can't control how our facial structure is unless you have surgery.

So my advice to everyone here is make sure their clothe game and physique is to shape.

Nah... im black and i date within my race since white girls arent really in my neighborhood or they think they're too good for us black dudes but its pretty much the same. They all care about looks black or white

 

[CasanovaFrankenstein]

Lyle Lovett is butt ugly, but at ever concert of his there are literally thousands of screaming women who would kill to get him in the sack. Value, value, value.

 

[youngmack]

Lyle Lovett is butt ugly, but at ever concert of his there are literally thousands of screaming women who would kill to get him in the sack. Value, value, value.

Somewhat true.. Social status and value slso comes into play

But hey can you guys help me with another thread i made? Its called "Going after oneitis" .

 

[PrettyBoyAJ]

Nah... im black and i date within my race since white girls arent really in my neighborhood or they think they're too good for us black dudes but its pretty much the same. They all care about looks black or white

Man, yall must look like damn chubaka or some sh!t. But seriously though I've seen ugly dudes with teamfulls of dime piece broads. When you talked to these cats these dudes had awesome personalities (no homo). Confident and Funny and just didn't give a fk.

Even on a side note I went to Atlanta yesterday. I seen old white dudes with light skinned dimes. I seen asians with light skinned dimes. I seen old black dudes with foreign dimes! These cats were old but still enjoying life.

I am telling you cats! Game pulls quality girls. A womans attraction to a male is of her function of thinking of what another female thinks of that same man. What you guys need to do is improve what you can. You can't change your face unless you get plastic surgery but you can change your wardrobe, shoes, teeth, hair etc. Get your own unique style guys.

Me I am 6'3. I'm always dressed business casual. Got waves in my hair and make sure I get a lineup every 1 1/2 week. Never wear jeans if I'm going out and I always wear polo with matching fruity colored polo socks and a different pair of dress shoes. If you guys find your own style and are comfortable with it you will be more confident in yourself.

If I step to a chick and get rejected I don't think to myself that I am ugly or not good looking. I say to myself I need to get my game up. Girls want the top dog. They want the alpha male! So you improve yourself and make sure that your on track to be the alpha male and girls will choose up.

If looks matter as much as you guys say then Lil Wayne, Lebron James, Chris Bosh wouldn't be getting tail. Your argument: "They got money". What I say: They worked hard and was very good at something. So good at it that it made them unique, confident, and successful.

The majority of girls (non-hoodrats) want successful dudes.

Cats, quit debating on if looks matter. It's just like a religous thread. We are going to debate all day and nobody is going to win. Get your confidence up and swagger up and you will be getting poon regardless.

Looks do matter, but not as much as you guys claim it to be. A cat can easily compensate is lack of looks with confidence, swag, personality, and money