How can anybody believe in religion?

[Bizzle13]

With what we know about evolution, science, the history of the earth and the creation of organised religion (astrology tales) how can people justify believing in a man on a cloud watching us, judging us, 'loving' us? That was aimed at Christianity but you know what I mean.

I can see the benefits in having a faith and something to believe in but I don't see how people can believe in it or have faith in it when we've reached a stage in our development as humans to realise that it's not real. I apologise if I'm offending anyone (forgive me? lol) but I'd love to hear any followers of a religions thoughts on this.

We shouldn't need religion to scare us in to treating one and other better and to lead a better life and imagine a world with no religion, there would still be trouble as conflict (probably over women) but not nearly as much as there is today. The only type of religion I could consider taking seriously is a more spiritual zen following that focuses more on the self, peace and the world rather than specifically worshipping a deity.

And what about 'God's will', obscurities over heaven and hell/reincarnation and the suffering in the world. Do devout believers really live their lives happy in the idea their life and existence is out of their hands?

I just feel as though it's an easy way out and a way to avoid responsibility and making conscious moral decisions alone. We're born alone and we die alone, the way we live is defined by us. I'd like to think I'd there was a god he'd want all his beings that he loves so dearly to live their own life and do what makes them happy, not spending their time abiding by set rules, worshipping him and living their lives around what people say about him. If there was a god do people really think he'd be so narcissistic and egotistical?

Anyway that's my thoughts, please retort. Again no offence intended, if you can't have a reasonable discussion about this please give your head a wobble before replying. Peace and love

Bizzle

 

[Darth]

I'm Catholic and I know I'm right.

I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that God exists and that He is omnipresent in human lives. That is to say, He is very real and alive and if you are humble and prayerful, you can find out just how real He is. He loves us and He wants to see us all get to Heaven. The thing you can do is just pray, and pray, and humbly continue to pray, and see how real God can be in your life.

 

[Bible_Belt]

Every religion is a philosophy about life, and the test of whether they are true or not is in applying the philosophy to the decisions you make in your own life. Try loving your enemies; it really fvcks with their heads. Treat other people as though you would like to be treated, and your life will be full of people who treat you well in return.

 

[speed dawg]

Why I believe in Christianity:

- Fullfilled prophecy throughout the Bible (I know you will try and shoot holes in this but it's right there in the Bible, black and white). This is literally the only place where people have accurately predicted future events.

- Personal experience where I've believed in God's plan and seen the results, ie felt the touch of God as Jules Winnfield says.

 

[Stort_Brød]

Why did you have to bring up religion? WHYYYYYY!!!!

Before I start this I just want to make it clear that I am all for religion, personally I do not believe in it but if that's what you are into or what gets you through the day and makes you happy then that's great as who am I to say that is wrong.

It is funny how some religions get really out of whack misconceptions. The satanists for instance - most people think that it is all about sacrificing babies to satan and worshiping demons and goats heads... well that's all wrong it is actually about worshiping yourself and doing what you know is right, you don't need someone or something to tell you what is good and what is bad it is a natural instinct.
or how about the catholic church? a bunch of kiddy fiddlers? well sure there have been many instances of the priests being caught out but that doesn't mean that all catholic priests are going to have a play with your kid behind the altar.
Christianity? well for an all knowing all seeing powerful and wise being that god is, he somehow can't handle money and always requires yours. churches bring in billions of dollars each year of non taxable income and it is known that not all of that money goes to where it should be going to like why does the pastor have a nice new sports car or some fancy things in his new house. but not all christian churches are like this at all.
Muslims? they are a bunch of terrorists right? no I know and converse with quite a few of the muslim faith and they are more than happy to not blow themselves up and think that the ones that do are total idiots. not all muslims are terrorists.

there are multiple religions all over the world but the funny thing is that a lot of them have huge similarities as follows.

3000BC Egypt
Horus-
-born december 25th
-born of a virgin
-birth was accompanied by a star in the east
-upon his birth was adored by 3 kings
-at the age of 12 he became a teacher
-at the age of 30 he was baptized by anup and began his ministry
-12 disciples he traveled with performing miracles such as healing and walking on water
-known by many names such as the truth, the light, the good Sheppard and many others
-crucified
-buried for 3 days
-resurrected

1200BC Greece
Attis
-born december 25th
-born of a virgin-crucified
-buried for 3 days
-resurrected

900BC India
Krishna
-born of a virgin
-star in the east to signal his coming
-performed miracles
-upon his death was resurrected

500BC Greece
Dionysus
-born on december 25th
-born of a virgin
-referred to as king of kings, the alpha and omega
-performed miracles
- upon his death was resurrected

1200BC Persia
Mithra
-born on december 25th
-born of a virgin
-had 12 disciples
-performed miracles
-dead for 3 days
-resurrected
-day of worship was sunday

does all this sound familiar to the followers of jesus?there are numerous more entities that are described by these characteristics from all over the world and at different time periods.

so now the question is why is there all these similarities the virgin birth on december 25th, 12 disciples, dead for 3 days before being resurrected and so on.

the birth sequence is astrological
Sirius is the brightest star in the East and on december 24th it aligns with the 3 brightest star in Orions belt and they are known as "the three kings" and the three kings and Sirius all point to the place of the sunrise ( gods sun ) on december 25th. hence why the 3 kings follow the star in the east to locate the sunrise or known as the birth of the sun.
the Virgin mary is known as the constellation Virgo which is latin for virgin. Virgo was also referred to as "the house of bread" Bethlehem also translates to "house of bread" which in urn bethlehem relates to the constellation in the sky not a place on earth.

another interesting phenomenon occurs around december 25th or as some know the winter solstice. from the summer solstice to the winter solstice the days become shorter and colder and from the northern hemisphere the sun moves south. the shortening of the days and the coming of the cold and death of the crops symbolized death to the ancients, it was the death of the sun. by december 22nd the suns demis was fully realised, the sun after moving south continuously for 6 months makes its way to its lowest point in the skie and here a curious thing occurs. the sun stops moving south for 3 days 22,23,24 of december. during these 3 days the sun resides in the vacinity of the southern cross (crux) constellation and on december 25th the sun moves 1degree but this time north foreshadowing longer days, warmth and spring. Thus it was said that the sun dies on the cross, was dead for 3 days only to be resurrected or born again. This is why Jesus and numerous other sun gods share the crucifixion, 3 day death and resurrection concept. it is the suns transition period before spring bringing warmth and growth ths salvation. but they don't celebrate the resurrection of the sun until the spring equinox or "easter" as at the spring equinox the light overpowers the darkness and the days become longer bringing salvation from the night and the revitalizing benefits of spring emerge.

The 12 disciples boil down to the 12 constellations of the zodiac which jesus being the "sun" travels about with ( the sun moves around the 12 constellations of the zodiac )

these few similarities are just a scratch on the surface of the world of religion. but upon further study brings me to not believe in an entity that is known as god. throughout history religion has been morphed and twisted into what the preachers want it to be through the way that they portray their teachings. Not all but a lot of different religious organizations don't brainwash but more so persuade you to their way of thinking to then create and mold people into good little sheep to benefit themselves and their organization. Yes religion does do a lot of harm in the world but they also bring a lot of good and joy to the world and the people in it. Even without religion there would still be wars poverty and suffering. So we all just need to figure out what works for us at the end of the day.

Now kids just remember that all this is just MY view of it all and that if you get something from it then awesome I'm glad I could help if not or that you disagree with something oh well it is just my view of the situation and please refrain from a petty argument. but I am more than happy to discuss further with you all.

 

[The_flying_dutchman]

With what we know about evolution, science, the history of the earth and the creation of organised religion (astrology tales) how can people justify believing in a man on a cloud watching us, judging us, 'loving' us? That was aimed at Christianity but you know what I mean.

Bizzle

This is foolish arrogance to assume we know enough about the universe and how it works. For every question we answer, there will always be another one that comes up.

I'm Catholic, and by no means am I religious. But at the same time I do believe in a higher force that governs the universe. I think the reason religion can seem quaint is because we have anthropromorphized (sp) God in that we attribute to him human characteristics like vengefulness, anger, love, etc... We also caricaturize God by portraying him as an old guy with a white beard. I believe that this is fallacy.

I believe God to be more of a force/intelligence rather than a being. I believe God oversees the function and maintenance of the universe without the need to be worshiped -- though I do believe He/It would want us to try to understand the natural order of things and adhere to some form of justice and righteousness.

 

[The_flying_dutchman]

Why did you have to bring up religion? WHYYYYYY!!!!

Before I start this I just want to make it clear that I am all for religion, personally I do not believe in it but if that's what you are into or what gets you through the day and makes you happy then that's great as who am I to say that is wrong.

It is funny how some religions get really out of whack misconceptions. The satanists for instance - most people think that it is all about sacrificing babies to satan and worshiping demons and goats heads... well that's all wrong it is actually about worshiping yourself and doing what you know is right, you don't need someone or something to tell you what is good and what is bad it is a natural instinct.
or how about the catholic church? a bunch of kiddy fiddlers? well sure there have been many instances of the priests being caught out but that doesn't mean that all catholic priests are going to have a play with your kid behind the altar.
Christianity? well for an all knowing all seeing powerful and wise being that god is, he somehow can't handle money and always requires yours. churches bring in billions of dollars each year of non taxable income and it is known that not all of that money goes to where it should be going to like why does the pastor have a nice new sports car or some fancy things in his new house. but not all christian churches are like this at all.
Muslims? they are a bunch of terrorists right? no I know and converse with quite a few of the muslim faith and they are more than happy to not blow themselves up and think that the ones that do are total idiots. not all muslims are terrorists.

there are multiple religions all over the world but the funny thing is that a lot of them have huge similarities as follows.

3000BC Egypt
Horus-
-born december 25th
-born of a virgin
-birth was accompanied by a star in the east
-upon his birth was adored by 3 kings
-at the age of 12 he became a teacher
-at the age of 30 he was baptized by anup and began his ministry
-12 disciples he traveled with performing miracles such as healing and walking on water
-known by many names such as the truth, the light, the good Sheppard and many others
-crucified
-buried for 3 days
-resurrected

1200BC Greece
Attis
-born december 25th
-born of a virgin-crucified
-buried for 3 days
-resurrected

900BC India
Krishna
-born of a virgin
-star in the east to signal his coming
-performed miracles
-upon his death was resurrected

500BC Greece
Dionysus
-born on december 25th
-born of a virgin
-referred to as king of kings, the alpha and omega
-performed miracles
- upon his death was resurrected

1200BC Persia
Mithra
-born on december 25th
-born of a virgin
-had 12 disciples
-performed miracles
-dead for 3 days
-resurrected
-day of worship was sunday

does all this sound familiar to the followers of jesus?there are numerous more entities that are described by these characteristics from all over the world and at different time periods.

so now the question is why is there all these similarities the virgin birth on december 25th, 12 disciples, dead for 3 days before being resurrected and so on.

the birth sequence is astrological
Sirius is the brightest star in the East and on december 24th it aligns with the 3 brightest star in Orions belt and they are known as "the three kings" and the three kings and Sirius all point to the place of the sunrise ( gods sun ) on december 25th. hence why the 3 kings follow the star in the east to locate the sunrise or known as the birth of the sun.
the Virgin mary is known as the constellation Virgo which is latin for virgin. Virgo was also referred to as "the house of bread" Bethlehem also translates to "house of bread" which in urn bethlehem relates to the constellation in the sky not a place on earth.

another interesting phenomenon occurs around december 25th or as some know the winter solstice. from the summer solstice to the winter solstice the days become shorter and colder and from the northern hemisphere the sun moves south. the shortening of the days and the coming of the cold and death of the crops symbolized death to the ancients, it was the death of the sun. by december 22nd the suns demis was fully realised, the sun after moving south continuously for 6 months makes its way to its lowest point in the skie and here a curious thing occurs. the sun stops moving south for 3 days 22,23,24 of december. during these 3 days the sun resides in the vacinity of the southern cross (crux) constellation and on december 25th the sun moves 1degree but this time north foreshadowing longer days, warmth and spring. Thus it was said that the sun dies on the cross, was dead for 3 days only to be resurrected or born again. This is why Jesus and numerous other sun gods share the crucifixion, 3 day death and resurrection concept. it is the suns transition period before spring bringing warmth and growth ths salvation. but they don't celebrate the resurrection of the sun until the spring equinox or "easter" as at the spring equinox the light overpowers the darkness and the days become longer bringing salvation from the night and the revitalizing benefits of spring emerge.

The 12 disciples boil down to the 12 constellations of the zodiac which jesus being the "sun" travels about with ( the sun moves around the 12 constellations of the zodiac )

these few similarities are just a scratch on the surface of the world of religion. but upon further study brings me to not believe in an entity that is known as god. throughout history religion has been morphed and twisted into what the preachers want it to be through the way that they portray their teachings. Not all but a lot of different religious organizations don't brainwash but more so persuade you to their way of thinking to then create and mold people into good little sheep to benefit themselves and their organization. Yes religion does do a lot of harm in the world but they also bring a lot of good and joy to the world and the people in it. Even without religion there would still be wars poverty and suffering. So we all just need to figure out what works for us at the end of the day.

Now kids just remember that all this is just MY view of it all and that if you get something from it then awesome I'm glad I could help if not or that you disagree with something oh well it is just my view of the situation and please refrain from a petty argument. but I am more than happy to discuss further with you all.

Glad to see you've been watching Zeitgeist on youtube....it's entertaining but just be aware that some of the information presented is not entirely accurate...or it's presented/spun in such a way so as to be misleading.

 

[Stort_Brød]

Glad to see you've been watching Zeitgeist on youtube....it's entertaining but just be aware that some of the information presented is not entirely accurate...or it's presented/spun in such a way so as to be misleading.

Ahh well it is good to see someone else that has seen it. And yes it was only a matter of time till someone was to recognise that. I fully understand that it is the same as religion "twisted to their point of view" and I have done many many hours of reading and conversing with those of faith and not of faith about such matters. This was just the easiest explanation as to my point. I think it is wonderful that people have religion in their lives but for myself I like to look at the more proven theories of religion rather than just faith.

A lot of people have been born into religion without being able to make that decision for themselves, but in saying that there are a lot that have been born and raised in a religious household and grew up to resent it and became atheist or non believers. As there have been people who have gone from non believers to the biggest fanatics of religion due to personal reasons such as a near death experience, an illness, realisation of oncoming death and then there are just those people who cannot think for themselves and are afraid of death and want to wish and hope for something more than death as in the afterlife.

Yes science has advanced a lot over the past few years and it contradicts what religion has to say, but a lot of what science has to say is just mere theories not factual. Sure it would be awesome to find out where we came from or how the universe all started, but while we are worrying about yesterday we are forgetting to enjoy today and plan for tomorrow.

Due to modern laws and the sheer amount of non believers religion has had to take a step back from a lot to do in modern society. just look back over the years even to lil old england with the witch hunting and burning. Hey guys I think she is a witch lets try to drown her and if she lives she is a witch (and we don't know wtf we will do) but if she drowns she wasn't a witch and she will be dead... well that sounds like a sound theory just in the fear of something that goes against the will of the almighty god.

Gallileo was imprisoned by the church for exposing that the earth was not at the center of the universe so in 1616 they already had control of what you and I were allowed to know.

Here is another thing for you all to think about The Illuminati and the Freemasons... is it a religion? no. But it could be taking what was one religions place controlling an manipulating our society haha.

 

[switch]

god exists.however the general concept of god as known by the general population is not accurate.

Those scientists dont even know how to control their own chi, they are not in a position to question god.it only reeks of ignorance.
Many will tell me to prove god,or talk about it.its impossible to talk about the truth.truth here is different from your usual concept.↲
OP try some esoteric meditation and decide for yourself.
Experience the truth and then decide.

 

[Stort_Brød]

I love the "prove it" statement!!!
religion cannot "prove" god exists buuuut and I love this one scientists have the theory of infinite universes so technically anything is possible therefore God is possible. God might not be present in this universe but could be in another. So science has a theory that practically says that god could be real.

 

[BraddH]

God should have simply put us in the paradise in the first place - if he so wants us to get there.

Whats with the devil testing people? God should have seen all this coming before he created Earth, he should have done something about it beforehand. I dont see any logical conclusion, unless God is female and is very illogical. Otherwise, there is no other logical conclusion.

 

[Bizzle13]

Brod I've seen zeitgeist too and loved it, and brad that's my main point it's difficult to believe that some all powerful all loving brig is just f*cking with us and testing us. In that sense God is playing the ultimate game of Sims. Thanks everyone for your replies but just as you 'know' there is a god I know there is not. I genuinely envy those who have a religion to follow with such faith though, I really do. I'd love to have something to believe in but you have to believe it and I just can't. As I said maybe I'll look in to some spiritual zen type religion.

I did a thesis on western religion and found a very interesting theory called terror management theory which points to religion simply being a medium for people to extinguish the fear and truth of death. Most religions offer you a get out of jail free card (heaven, reincarnation, 40 virgins etc). How much scarier is life when you don't have that security - when you die, everything fades to black and you're gone forever. Take that out of religion and I bet quickly become less popular than Gary Glitter's records. Live well, do unto others as you would do unto yourself, love thy neighbour and you will be rewarded...with nothing.

I don't want to get too much in to conspiracy theories but has anyone ever thought religion might be a tool alongside drugs, politics, porn, gaming and media to numb us, lower our curiosity and keep us in line? It always gets me thinking. If Bizzle gets assassinated tonight you all know why haha

 

[Stort_Brød]

yes it has been used many times as a way to control the general population through fear and threats. But these days it is no where near as extreme especially with the catholic pope going pro homo lol.

the fear of death and the thought of afterlife... ahh good thoughts there. but I don't need a heaven to believe in as I believe in energy and when you think about it reincarnation is sort of real, but not as the common thought of your spirit being reincarnated into another person or animal. More of transmutation into many things. Think about it this way... when you are buried your body decomposes changing its physical makeup you release CO2 through the decomposition which is used by the trees to be turned into oxygen, worms and other bugs eat your remains which then might get eaten by birds so you become nutrients for living animals and even enrich the soil. so you are benefiting everything on many different levels. which I think is pretty awesome compared to eternal life as that sh!t would get boring after the first few million years haha.

Death is death at the end of the day and we all are going to have to face it sooner or later and I plan on getting as much out of what life I have as possible. there is nothing to be afraid of it is just one of the many wondrous things that comes with being a living being.

 

[Darth]

. But these days it is no where near as extreme especially with the catholic pope going pro homo lol.

The Catholic pope has no way of changing fundamental Catholic doctrine. Catholic doctrine teaches that homosexual behavior is wrong, but those who struggle with such temptations do not necessarily sin. And even if they do sin, there is always forgiveness if it is asked for with contrite heart. Hate the sin, not the sinner.

No pope can change that, any sooner than they could start ordaining women as clergy or giving the green light to abortion.

I just don't like to see Catholicism misrepresented. I believe God likes us to keep things simple. Simplicity is wisdom. Satan is the great complicator, rationalizer, etc. All doubt, anxiety, worry, and fear is not from God.

Gallileo was imprisoned by the church for exposing that the earth was not at the center of the universe so in 1616 they already had control of what you and I were allowed to know.

http://www.catholic.com/tracts/the-galileo-controversy

 

[Bizzle13]

So if I live my whole life in 'sin', with no inclination towards religion I'll be ok as long as when I'm on my deathbed I ask for forgiveness. I simply have to say "God, Krishna, Christ, Buddha, Allah, Tom Cruise - forgive me" and I'll go to that better place?

And getting on to the whole homosexuality conversation if there is a god that condemns two people being in love because of gender then f*ck him, as a figure an entity or as an idea. If you're happy and not directly hurting another person do exactly what the f*ck you want. I'd support that a million times before supporting an 'all-loving but selective god'.

 

[Darth]

So if I live my whole life in 'sin', with no inclination towards religion I'll be ok as long as when I'm on my deathbed I ask for forgiveness. I simply have to say "God, Krishna, Christ, Buddha, Allah, Tom Cruise - forgive me" and I'll go to that better place?

If that is your intention, that is not a sincere conversion of heart.

And getting on to the whole homosexuality conversation if there is a god that condemns two people being in love because of gender then f*ck him

See this is what people say who are going to hell. LOL Don't shoot the messenger.

 

[Bizzle13]

If heaven is full of people who slate and condemn others for who they love and hell is full of people who risk everything and take stick to be true to themselves I know where I'd rather be. Lennon, Hicks, Cobain will all be down there too so why would I choose a halo over horns?

 

[Darth]

If heaven is full of people who slate and condemn others for who they love

Hate the sin, not the sinner. Be careful to judge others as people or you may be judged the same way as you judged others.

and hell is full of people who risk everything and take stick to be true to themselves I know where I'd rather be.

There is the rub. Christianity is about being true to God- NOT about being true to yourself.

Lennon, Hicks, Cobain will all be down there too so why would I choose a halo over horns?

Because Hell is misery so painful it is beyond human comprehension?

A better reason would be because you love God who made you and you don't want to offend Him by doing the wrong thing. You always try to get closer to God over the course of your life, and not further away.

 

[Ruthless]

I tend to think of death as being like pre-life. My personality didn't exist, it didn't hurt, and I simply wasn't. I expect that death is much the same, "I" simply cease to be.

 

[Bible_Belt]

It is widely accepted among Christian scholars that Jesus was not born on Christmas. The date was changed to absorb the pagan celebration of the winter solstice on Dec 23rd. That's where we get the Christmas tree, too. Evergreens were the only thing green in winter, and used as part of the celebration.