How can anybody believe in religion?

[MaddXMan]

Christian scholars

The same scholars who say the earth is only 6000 years old and dinosaur bones/fossils are illusions of the Devil?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0_2Wq9Aos4

 

[DoubleBarrel]

If you're asking why people take the Bible or the Koran and everything in them as the literal truth and not just the belief that a god exists, it seems to take the suspension of logic and rationality. There's no other way someone could believe in religion otherwise.

The belief in a god or creator, sure. All the stories of the holy books, no.

I don't think people choose religion for logical reasons. They choose it emotionally, then attempt to back up that decision logically to defend and justify their choice. Much like how we make any "buying" decision. It's not rational, most of the time. It's emotional, then backed up or supported with logic.

It seems people who are indoctrinated at a young age to believe in religion have little choice but to accept it for the rest of their lives. The penalties of doubting it have been so impressed on their young minds that they're too scared to be sceptical in the future; therefore, they unconsciously prevent themselves from entertaining the possibility that it's all hogwash. The possibility of eternal damnation burnt into the mind of a child will often keep that mind in bondage or adverse to any form of scepticism until it's dying day.

This is all deeply subconscious. They don't even know what's motivating or driving their decisions later, after the fear has been planted. They just unconsciously know they want to avoid it.

After all, there's NOTHING more terrifying than to believe that it's possible to go to a place where a person burns up for all eternity. Once that belief takes hold in the mind, a person will go to any length, despite being irrational and illogical, to prevent themselves from the chance of experiencing it... even if it means believing in "nonsense", and it usually does.

 

[switch]

boring. next topic please. thank you.

 

[BraddH]

boring. next topic please. thank you.

No. Certainly it is not boring. You are simply pretending. What does boring means? It means that it has no significant and no meaning to go on. If that was the case with you, then you would not even have it arise it in your mind.

 

[Bizzle13]

DoubleBarrel that's a very interesting point and I get the whole concept of faith, as I said I envy people who have that faith and deeply believe it regardless of evidence suggesting otherwise - but on the other hand some would call that pig ignorance. Leper I know exactly what you mean; using religion as any kind of explanation for anything implies that it is out of a person's control. 'God' would never make someone do something.

I love this science quote I've seen saying that if the big bang was replicated a million times, life and all existence came in to being all over again science would still stand. All the elements would be discovered again, perhaps given different names but they'd still be there. Every scientific breakthrough would eventually be repeated and what man has learned about the world would be learnt again but nowhere would there be a story about a f*cking burning bush.

 

[backseatjuan]

Universe is a space-time fabric of past, present, and future, that evolved from a singularity, and has finite lifetime. It is foolish to think science can make you survive end of space and time. More realistic is enlightenment of the soul, and uplifting of the spirit into new dimension, closer to God.

 

[Atom Smasher]

Why do men think there exists only one red pill in this life? Virtually all men who have taken the red pill in our community have never even considered that there might be another offered to them.

When you took the SS red pill, your eyes were opened to things that you were previously absolutely blind to. You look around today at unenlightened men and marvel at their utter ignorance of the things that have been revealed to us, secret knowledge that is not accepted by the mainstream because they are unable to receive it. And yet it seems so obvious to us.

So it is with the things of God. Scripture says, "Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God". Faith does not come about via music, argument, contemplation, reflection, or any other means except exposure to the scriptures.

Just think about this... By far, most Christians today used to be scoffers and mockers. What could possibly have changed them? What could possibly have made 12 common fishermen and tradesmen maintain their absolute allegiance to Christ even when faced with torture and death? Paul himself, who wrote the new testament, formerly travelled from city to city killing Christians (he had henchmen to do the actual dirty work).

Paul was a mass murderer and yet he did a complete 180. What can possibly change a man from scoffer and "know-it-all" to a humble man of God? Only the power of God Himself can do such a thing. It is a supernatural event, and a personal event.

God cannot be approached and understood through man's intellect. That is why no intellectual discussion ever yields anything concrete. The things of God are hidden to the arrogant idolater (one who insists on defining his own, make-believe god), and revealed to the true seeker.

Isaiah 55:9
"As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts."

God cannot be comprehended without His own intervention into our lives. He will intervene for the man who is receptive to Him.


1 Corinthians 2:14
"But the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness to him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. "

There is another red pill, gentlemen.

 

[Warrior74]

Lol.

 

[Darth]

There is another red pill, gentlemen.

I agree.

 

[Atom Smasher]

Lol.

Warrior, I have no problem when people disagree with what I say for sound reasons, but I find it incredibly difficult to assign any kind of credibility to your arguments. I don't say this as a means of insulting... It is simply impossible for me to view you as credible.

In another thread you stated that you "know there is on God". How can a man who is intellectually honest claim that he KNOWS there is no God, as if he were there when it all began? No human being can KNOW there is no God. Honestly, a child can understand this difficulty in your logic.

The fact is that you are EMOTIONAL about God, and it comes out in your writings. You are against the very idea of His existence because He arouses emotions in you.

In other threads, you have made statements about God that again utterly defy sound logic. I was hoping to quote some here but I can't find the thread at the moment. I'll address it within that thread when I find it.

When you speak to Christians, you are speaking to people who have been in both camps... First they were dyed-in-the-wool scoffers, like you, and then something happened and they became believers.

You, on the other hand, have only ever existed in the scoffer camp. As we mature, isn't it true that we sometimes find there are entire worlds of knowledge that we never knew existed? That's why I compare settling accounts with God with a second red pill. The blue pill guys will swear to their graves that being nice to women, giving them flowers and compliments, is the only possible way to get a women. They simply cannot comprehend any other way.

Likewise, the scoffer goes only by what he observes with his senses and with his internal world-view.

To be intellectually honest and to garner cred, you need to stop the arm crossing and foot stomping and say that you do not believe there is a God, rather than saying you KNOW there is no God.

In addition, your "LOL" responses convey nothing but the fact that you have a deep emotional attachment, that you personally NEED there to be no God.

At least think about the hundreds of thousand of people in the world today who intellectualized God away, who declared atheism, and those who, like you, emotionalized Him away.

What is it that made them turn around and place their faith in the God of the bible? Stupidity? Hardly. I know many extremely intelligent Christians. Cowardice? Let me tell you, it take balls to be a Christian in this world. We have been persecuted, fed to lions, burned at the stake, and today the form of persecution that is rapidly arising is marginalizing and mocking, and will soon include jail time for simply declaring agreement with the bible. No true man of God will succumb to any persecution, just as history has proven by the thousands of martyrs.

Earn my respect, man. Ramp up your arguments to make logical sense. LOL doesn't cut it, just as claiming to KNOW that God doesn't exist cut it.

I can respect "I just can't believe there is a God." I can respect "How can there be a God when there is so much evil in the world?" What I can't respect are your "shoot from the hip" statements.

 

[Warrior74]

Warrior, I have no problem when people disagree with what I say for sound reasons, but I find it incredibly difficult to assign any kind of credibility to your arguments. I don't say this as a means of insulting... It is simply impossible for me to view you as credible.

In another thread you stated that you "know there is on God". How can a man who is intellectually honest claim that he KNOWS there is no God, as if he were there when it all began? No human being can KNOW there is no God. Honestly, a child can understand this difficulty in your logic.

The fact is that you are EMOTIONAL about God, and it comes out in your writings. You are against the very idea of His existence because He arouses emotions in you.

In other threads, you have made statements about God that again utterly defy sound logic. I was hoping to quote some here but I can't find the thread at the moment. I'll address it within that thread when I find it.

When you speak to Christians, you are speaking to people who have been in both camps... First they were dyed-in-the-wool scoffers, like you, and then something happened and they became believers.

You, on the other hand, have only ever existed in the scoffer camp. As we mature, isn't it true that we sometimes find there are entire worlds of knowledge that we never knew existed? That's why I compare settling accounts with God with a second red pill. The blue pill guys will swear to their graves that being nice to women, giving them flowers and compliments, is the only possible way to get a women. They simply cannot comprehend any other way.

Likewise, the scoffer goes only by what he observes with his senses and with his internal world-view.

To be intellectually honest and to garner cred, you need to stop the arm crossing and foot stomping and say that you do not believe there is a God, rather than saying you KNOW there is no God.

In addition, your "LOL" responses convey nothing but the fact that you have a deep emotional attachment, that you personally NEED there to be no God.

At least think about the hundreds of thousand of people in the world today who intellectualized God away, who declared atheism, and those who, like you, emotionalized Him away.

What is it that made them turn around and place their faith in the God of the bible? Stupidity? Hardly. I know many extremely intelligent Christians. Cowardice? Let me tell you, it take balls to be a Christian in this world. We have been persecuted, fed to lions, burned at the stake, and today the form of persecution that is rapidly arising is marginalizing and mocking, and will soon include jail time for simply declaring agreement with the bible. No true man of God will succumb to any persecution, just as history has proven by the thousands of martyrs.

Earn my respect, man. Ramp up your arguments to make logical sense. LOL doesn't cut it, just as claiming to KNOW that God doesn't exist cut it.

I can respect "I just can't believe there is a God." I can respect "How can there be a God when there is so much evil in the world?" What I can't respect are your "shoot from the hip" statements.

Trying to explain to a true believer is like trying to unplug chumps from the matrix. It's dirty work and honestly, I don't wanna do it. I actually wrote a detailed response to your comment but then deleted it. I felt the candle wasn't worth the light. The fact that my LOL gets under your skin shows me your doubt. Respect? Earn mine. Open your mind to the possibility that you could be completely wrong about your beliefs. Millions have lived and died under other creeds more ancient than yours. The only consistent thing about religion is that there is always a new one. Show me you know history. Show me you know of other faiths. Show me that you understand the meaning of the myth. Until you do that, you are just another brainwashed AFC telling me that true love exist and feminism is good for men and women and I should just be myself. Never trust a woman's advice on a relationship. Corallary. Never trust a religious person's advice on religion. They have a vested interest in their point of view.

Claiming to KNOW god exist doesn't cut it either. Until you show you can look at your religion through the lenses of history, logic, and rationality I will just take you for another koolaid drinker.

And you know nothing of my long and sordid history with religion. If there is a god, I think we all would be surprised at what it is. But I can tell you, I highly doubt he's juedeo-christian. Or even what we would call human or humane. Also that poor persecuted christian thing? Give that a rest. You guys haven't be persecuted in any real sense in centuries. If anything you are the modern day persecutors.

And who says they turn back to being christians. You know what the Jesuits say, give me a child. Show me you understand about indoctrination, and the role geography and culture has played in this tale and you might start earning my respect.

It takes balls? To not be a asshat? Really? LOL. I guess it does. If the only thing stopping you from being a terrible person is god then I want you to believe all day long chief. You aren't fit to be amongst us and you need something to keep you in line, you fail at being an adult human.

Scoffers. Your language is loaded like a feminist. If you tell me that 2 + 2 =5 and fail to prove it I have every right to scoff.

When I say there is no god, it provokes a feeling in you. WHat is that feeling? Is it anger? Is it doubt? Sadness? Even pity? It's something and you should explore it. If you aren't afraid you will. You might not like what you find. But unlike me, I had to arrive at my conclusion without anyone to prompt me and challenge me with those words. It was way harder than it had to be. The fact of the matter is that you have at your finger tips the means to research everything and draw a true conclusion on the nature of man, the universe and gods/goddesses. The first step is always the hardest. Good luck.

 

[Peaks&Valleys]

Amazing thread.

To any of you here I would recommend the book "East of Eden" -John Steinbeck

 

[geoffreydunn12]

I think we should not be asking about how can anybody believe in religion. I mean, each of us have it although I still know that there might be few who do not believe and I respect that. Let's just respect what we are believing in.

 

[Bizzle13]

I have massive respect for what others believe in, I just personally can't believe it myself. I believe the red pill is an eye-opener to reality, reality being that there is no deity or entity or greater power. It can be difficult to take and obviously none of us know who is right but it makes so much more sense to me that we're on our own and we are the masters of our own destiny.

 

[FairShake]

My brain doesn't agree with religion.

My heart does agree with religion.

I approach it with both however.

 

[Darth]

Open your mind to the possibility that you could be completely wrong about your beliefs. Millions have lived and died under other creeds more ancient than yours. The only consistent thing about religion is that there is always a new one. Show me you know history. Show me you know of other faiths. Show me that you understand the meaning of the myth. Until you do that, you are just another brainwashed AFC telling me that true love exist and feminism is good for men and women and I should just be myself. Never trust a woman's advice on a relationship. Corallary. Never trust a religious person's advice on religion. They have a vested interest in their point of view.

Claiming to KNOW god exist doesn't cut it either. Until you show you can look at your religion through the lenses of history, logic, and rationality I will just take you for another koolaid drinker.
.

Dude- have you ever considered the possibility that we actually DO know not only that God exists, but that He is omnipresent in human lives and has the capability to talk to us (and does, if we are humble versus proud)?

You call it a "myth." Is God's presence in my life a myth? When I pray and I occasionally get words put into my head out of left field that could not possibly have come out of my imagination, is that a myth?

You greatly underestimate the strength of faith of a person who has personally experienced God, as I have and I'm sure many others have.

I'm very secure in my position and I don't feel the need to prove it to anybody. I would just advise you to reconsider your view of Christians in light of the fact that they just may know something that you don't, and not be brainwashed "kool-aid drinkers."

And to end my argument and reiterate my earlier point, I'm Catholic and I know I'm right

 

[Bizzle13]

I believe there is nothing out there. And I know I'm right

 

[Darth]

I believe there is nothing out there. And I know I'm right

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal's_Wager

 

[DoubleBarrel]

By far, most Christians today used to be scoffers and mockers.

What proof is there for this statement? I'd be interested to see it. Because, in my experience, this is not the case at all. Do you have any viable statistics to back this up?

I grew up in a religious community. And what I saw happening a lot was people would be raised religious, then abandon it to "live it up" between about ages 18-23. Finally, when they'd had their fun and it got old, they'd return to their religious lifestyles and settle down into a comfortable "godly" family life.

In my experience most Christians were raised that way, "turned their backs on God" for a period, then returned like the Prodigal Son. They wanted the best of both worlds.

If this is the case with those non-believers you called "scoffers", it's not entirely accurate to say they were non-believers who became believers. But rather believes who took a break, then returned to renew their faith.

Of all the people I personally know who weren't raised religious, not one of them has later become religious. Not that it never happens, because everything does. However, I know many, who like I mentioned above, took a hiatus and then returned, while others simply abandoned their faith completely.

Darth

Isn't Pascal's Wager a slightly cowardly approach to faith? What I mean is it's an "intelligent" gamble. It's playing the odds, and is motivated by avoiding the possibility of eternal torture at the expense of not living life to the fullest.

What would your god think of someone who played their life by Pascal's Wager? They only "believed" in God because of selfishness and fear. I thought God wanted people to choose him out of love.

A man stands at the gates of heaven, and says, "God, I only believed in you because I was scared that you would torture me forever. And given that that might have been a possibility, I thought only of myself and my well-being. That's why I chose you. It really had nothing to do with you. It was all about me!"

What would God say to that?

"Welcome to heaven, true and faithful servant!"?

Doesn't Pascal's Wager destroy the entire basis of faith?

 

[Darth]

Darth

Isn't Pascal's Wager a slightly cowardly approach to faith?

I never said it was my approach to faith, but I thought it would be an argument more likely to make sense to The Bizzle here.

Nah, being afraid of hell is a terrible reason to believe. Agreed 100%. Even though you should be. A better reason is because you love God. Loving God more than yourself is the key of the Christian faith.