$hit tests = enigmas

[ketostix]

I think some of you are comparing apples and oranges. What a girl should or might do before she decides to date and have sex with you and what after you're in a relationship. Sh!t tests are real and they come in different forms. I think SonoftheMostHigh's explanation is valid. A lot of times I think they're testing what and how much your true interest in them is. And if you reveal it after being tested you liekly failed the test. The typical younger girl will test more than a typical older woman. Young and hot girls seem to test the most. Sh!t testing is kind of immature but a lot of girls do it. And I think a girl will test you when she's interested in you but has some doubt and wants to find out if you're the "real deal". Depending on the sh!t test, the best response is usually to just ignore it.

 

[Colossus]

A sh!t test is not an absolute thing. There are different reasons and different situations.

I agree with penkitten--generally speaking, women will do it when they feel they can get away with it.

Later on in a relationship, i think it becomes more of a manipulation thing. If she can sense you are not 100% confident she will sh!t test you into oblivion and treat you based on your reaction to said test. It becomes a way for her to gauge how much power she has...and i think it is a natural mechanism that girls learn from an early age.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

I agree with this, but I have to say this whole thing confuses me a little. For instance, the phone game thing. "I'll do that for you right away." (doesn't happen). "Sure I'll call you back and such and such." doesn't happen.

Sh1ttest <> Flake

Now, when this happens when a girl clearly has high IL in you, how do you proceed?

Girls who are truly interested don't flake. If something comes up, they will at least give you a counter offer.

Guys don't do crap like this.

Girls <> Guys

...I'm considerate, and I hold to my word. I kind of want that from a woman in return, call me crazy. Sometimes I get sick of these games, but I know it's not personal, and that it's all part of the mating game.

But damn it still ticks me off sometimes! This may qualify as a rant.

So how do you go about qualifying these women?

 

[Interceptor]

Reset, how badly do you want that cookie?

What has she done that no other woman cannot do?
What does she have that no other woman has?
What is so special about her that she affects you so much?

I'm not saying it's NOT Ok to be affected. This is what happens when we invest emotionally in another person.
But you do recognize that your happiness is what's inside, not outside. And certainly not from her.

You must always have the mindset that you are willing to walk away.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Dude all I have DONE is qualify. Qualify qualify qualify. And each time, she has done her best to qualify. And she was qualifying. Considerate, compliments me, gives me plenty of attention, decent behavior, but this **** gets mixed in and it totally throws me because it's inconsistent with how she usually is towards me. She'll do something flaky, I'll put her in her place, and she will back off and do what I want. Then after awhile, she'll do it again, maybe a little more subtly but it's like "remember the time I did this? And you reacted that way? Are you still going to shut me down?"

YES I'm going to shut you down. Duh.

Anyway. Part of me just wants to say screw it. This particular girl isn't someone I just met, I've known her a long time and the more intense it gets the more I realize I'm dealing with something that's a little bigger than what I'm used to handling. So there you have it.

I realize this is a little ranty, but I'm dealing I guess.

Reminds me of playing with a cat using a piece of string. As long as you jiggle it you can keep it's attention. As soon as you drop it on the floor (the string), the cat looses interest after one sniff.

Yep, it's the exact same piece of string that kept the cat interested a few moments earlier but once the string stops reacting to the bats of her furry, claw lined paws, interest is lost. Yep, just like a lot of women....

Now what did you say about qualifying her?

 

[Interceptor]

You're right. She IS trying to see what you're made of.
You can only hope that at some point it will stop.
If you are to be her man, you are not to jump through hoops.
If you are to be the Man she chooses , she has to understand that there is a price to pay for your time, effort, affection, and commitment to her.
She has to know at some point that the flking has to stop.
She's smart enough to know that flaking on someone is a very visible sign of disrespect.
She's finding out like you said what kind of man are you.
Remember though, there are women who need a "strong man" to "put her in her place."

This may be the test for you, Reset.
Are you going to be the guy that stops her destruction of herself, you, and the relationship?
Is this the kind of relationship you really want?

 

[jophil28]

I figure, if she has high enough IL, she should know little games like this don't help her cause.

Part of the problem is we expect women to be adults, but so many of them are little girls in an adult's body. So shouldn't we treat them like chirren?

I'm considerate, and I hold to my word. I kind of want that from a woman in return, call me crazy. Sometimes I get sick of these games, but I know it's not personal, and that it's all part of the mating game.

But damn it still ticks me off sometimes! This may qualify as a rant.

Firstly the belief that a woman with 'high to very high' interest level will not sh1t test you is misguided. Women do sh!ts tests because it is part of that particular woman's HABITUAL behavior with men. They do not consider the consequences- they just do this crap. They are blissfully unconcerned that "Testing" and mindgames are destructive and will eventually push a guy away. And they think that it is SO CLEVER ! Women have a way of thinking which leads them to believe that anything that they do has a LEGITIMATE purpose and is therefore, not only excusable,but a very smart tactic. - including cheating ,drinking flaking and generally being a stupid baitch.

Secondly, most women act like spoilt children because they are ONLY concerned with the satisfaction of their own immediate needs.( and men give into them ). If you expect most women to act like adults you are going to be endlessly disappointed, angry and pissed.
Don't expect women to act with honor or from sophisticated motivations, They are in it for what they can get and what they can get away with.

Thirdly , I found out. by bewildering and painful experience, that being
"considerate" with a woman , keeping your word, being punctual and acting in an adult manner will Rarely bring reciprocity..In fact, you will usually invite exploitation and/or extremely childish behavior . Weird ? Yep , but there is a way of looking at women that can explain all this,but that is another thread.

 

[jophil28]

This chick will walk over anyone who can't stand up to her. This is one of the reasons I'm attracted I guess.

Your two sentences above are really instructive.
First - if she will walk over anyone who cant stand up to her then, by extension, this MUST INCLUDE YOU. You need to be super vigilant about returning to your wussy ways.. Even a few minutes of AFC behavior on the wrong occasion will give her the upper hand and she will feel the shift in power - and disrespect you for it.

Now read the second sentence - you are attracted to her because she is tough and relentless in seeking the power position with anyone who won't stand up to her. How much attaction do you figure that she feels for you when you stand up to her ? YOu have a clear cut role with this woman - BE IN CHARGE ...

 

[mrRuckus]

she is a snake. period.

And people who say "period" are condescending. Umm... "end of story."

 

[Bible_Belt]

Thirdly , I found out. by bewildering and painful experience, that being
"considerate" with a woman , keeping your word, being punctual and acting in an adult manner will Rarely bring reciprocity..In fact, you will usually invite exploitation and/or extremely childish behavior .

Towards the end of my marriage, I was living apart, yet paying her grad school tuition and doing her fvcking homework for her, if you can believe that. I wrote like ten papers for her, got an A- or B+ on every one. To show her appreciation, she put personal ads on the net and started fvcking any guy who would look her way.

Did I learn? At first, yes. Then, no. During my last ltr, I was buying her gifts left and right, driving to see her when she was away, then she suddenly wanted space because I was no fun. I responded by being Mr *Extra* Nice Guy and told her 'I love you enough to give you space.' I was so nice, she got another guy that same month! Now she is 'in love' with him.

The nicer you are, the worse behavior you bring out of a woman. I have a few stories of women whose are respected by their friends, yet behaved horribly for me. My ex-wife does not have any friends left from when we were together. None of them will talk to her after I told them about her cheating. Even people that were her friends, not mine, talk to me now and not her. I can make a few decent women sound like horrible people, but here's the point of all of this: I am just as much to blame as them. I got lazy and weak, lulled into unrelistic ideas about women by the ltr. I lost my willingness to walk away, and got walked all over in return. Mr. Nice Guy alwats finished last, even in a ltr.

 

[Bible_Belt]

That sentence is so important to me that I am making it my new signature.

 

[Interceptor]

This one I believe is more powerful:

The nicer you are, the worse behavior you bring out of a woman.


It's not about being "nice".
Nice does not create or raise attraction or interest.
Nice does not make a woman want to have sex with you.
Nice does not increase her love for you.
When you are "nice", in that you put yourself beneath her, and are willing to jump at a moment's notice to do anything for her,to please her, to not make her mad, to constantly try ot serve her is when you head for disaster.
A Man can never be her waiter, servant, butler, driver, "do boy" for his woman.

A Man must recognize his worth, his "Place" in the world.
If not, he will be found a place for him...as a door mat.



What's the quickest way to get rid of a woman?

Be "nice" to her.

Anyway, continued success to you Bible Belt. I know this was a hard lesson to learn for you. Hope you have found your happiness.

 

[jophil28]

You can only afford to be NICE with nice women. Or be decent with decent women or reasonable with women who act reasonably.
Men can NEVER 'earn' attraction or affection from most women by being NICE to them .
WHY? Because most women have a bloated sense of entitlement and will treat you like a servant to be dismissed at their whim if you act like one.

 

[reset]

YOu have a clear cut role with this woman - BE IN CHARGE ...

I read this this morning and I'm glad I did, because I was starting to feel like a wuss. I work with her, I kicked it into gear today. Someone else needed something from her, but they were afraid to call her to ask. So they suggested to someone else "maybe you can go up and ask her for me" and someone else chimes in, "yeah you don't tell her to do something, you kindly SUGGEST that she do something".

And I'm thinking "WTF is this crap? People are scared of confronting her and I'm getting scared too. ME? NOPE." People start looking at me and I'm thinking "this is absolutely ridiculous. People twice her age are afraid to ask her a freaking question."

So immediately I picked up the phone. I demanded what I needed, not in a mean way but in a "I know you're playing sly girl I'm watching you get your act together" way, and then I get overcompensation from her, all nice and sweet and calmed. It's a power struggle thing. Everytime I shut her down she wants me more.

Usually I'm on top of stuff like this but she's tough. And she's not even really a bytch. It's just like you said, if she senses weakness she is going to get her way and enjoy the process. Can't respect myself and play that game.

 

[reset]

What's the quickest way to get rid of a woman?

Be "nice" to her.

I agree. The word nice has lost all meaning to me, at least in this context, and that's not a bad thing. The closest thing I can come to that resembles "nice" is just being yourself, being "cool", with the knowledge that you will watch her like a hawk and swoop down in a split second if she acts up. Knowing this may make her want you to stay "cool" with her.

 

[jophil28]

I


. And she's not even really a bytch. It's just like you said, if she senses weakness she is going to get her way and enjoy the process. Can't respect myself and play that game.

Yes she is a bytch - what else can you call her ?
Women like her will never give you any peace..personally or professionally.
It will always be an arm wrestle - every freakin' step of the way.
You need to stay vigilant against her future attempts to regain the high ground -and she will do it IN ANY WAY available to her .

 

[reset]

I hear you. I'm not going to cut and run but I'm reminded now of how important it is to qualify. The times I did that, and never gave her any leeway with her catty behavior (because I knew what was happening, and since I was detached, I had no problem sticking up to her because I realized it was just a game, and that I could handle her).

What changed? I started getting stronger feelings, and by doing that, let those feelings make me weak. And by doing that, lost sight of what I was doing. Like doc love says "the principles that catch her, keep her". I think I forgot that for a minute. Thanks for reminding me.

 

[Bonhomme]

I don't bother myself to take women who pull such shit seriously.

A "devil may care" attitude is the best antidote. That, and make it a point to set things up on your terms, so it doesn't really matter if she flakes early on. I make dates that involve things to which I would enjoy going solo anyway, like art openings, shows in clubs, etc.

 

[Colossus]

Towards the end of my marriage, I was living apart, yet paying her grad school tuition and doing her fvcking homework for her, if you can believe that. I wrote like ten papers for her, got an A- or B+ on every one. To show her appreciation, she put personal ads on the net and started fvcking any guy who would look her way.

Did I learn? At first, yes. Then, no. During my last ltr, I was buying her gifts left and right, driving to see her when she was away, then she suddenly wanted space because I was no fun. I responded by being Mr *Extra* Nice Guy and told her 'I love you enough to give you space.' I was so nice, she got another guy that same month! Now she is 'in love' with him.

The nicer you are, the worse behavior you bring out of a woman. I have a few stories of women whose are respected by their friends, yet behaved horribly for me. My ex-wife does not have any friends left from when we were together. None of them will talk to her after I told them about her cheating. Even people that were her friends, not mine, talk to me now and not her. I can make a few decent women sound like horrible people, but here's the point of all of this: I am just as much to blame as them. I got lazy and weak, lulled into unrelistic ideas about women by the ltr. I lost my willingness to walk away, and got walked all over in return. Mr. Nice Guy alwats finished last, even in a ltr.

Bible Belt that should be cannonized. Genuine post.

So much of that rung true with me...like a page out of my own book.

And i can attest to the reality of what you and Francisco said...you never really understand it until youve lived it.

 

[SonOfTheMostHigh]

This one I believe is more powerful:

The nicer you are, the worse behavior you bring out of a woman.

A better way to put it would be thus: Always believe you are better then her and treat her as if you were better then her (because you are), thats what she subconsciously wants, ALL WOMEN will react to the fact that you believe in your own strength and power and they will sense it. When we try to be "nice" what really happens is this:

We begin to supplicate because we become insecure or are blinded by our feelings or her looks (try to convince her by our "niceness") to either

1) like an AFC would to get more sex or
2) In a stupid attempt to save either a) Save a relationship or b) we slip into forgetting that women don't want feminine guys. and finally c) She senses weakness in our value, hence we need to spin more plates or if you are in a serious relationship/married, you need to GET YOUR BALLS BACK!

Niceness is about femininity, fear, blindness (emotional, and by being blinded her looks) and finally insecurity.

You are the PRIZE, Rollo said it best. Always act like you are king ****, and never ever let her disturb the fact that you are a man and your strength of will is eternal.

We tend to over think everything. We really just need to remember to keep our pair.

Lisa nova says it in "Givin up the nuts"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZDILuqCMlc