history lessons

[penkitten]

joekerr
i truly understood everything you just posted and i don't disagree with it, exactly.
it is just that sooner or later, women must become the best person that they can be too. otherwise, they can never become happy being all these different roles to people that they must.
i am telling you, it is super hard to sit down and try to find out who you are, once you are mature enough to do so. most times, we have already created families. i think this alone, has everything to do with families silting up, middled aged women getting tats and piercings etc. they are trying to form the person they think they are. they had given all they could to everyone else and lived for and thru everyone else until they finally figure out that they need to find themselves.
at least that is what happened to me. i became the person that i am, the woman i am, the wife i am, the mother i am, the friend/sister/daughter i am because i had to DRIVE myself to do it.
i could not depend on other people to come along and save my azz. i also did not take advantage of other people to save my azz.
that is why i claim that women must become too.

 

[joekerr31]

pen,

i agree with what you said in your last post. which is why i think most peopel shouldn't get married. most people getting married have no clue who they are, and their spouse has no clue who they are either - its like two people playing chicken with blind folds on.

and who suffers ultimately? the kids.

and i agree women must come in to their own. this is why ive always said what society does to women is probably worse than what it does to men. at least with men it forces them to become independent, but with women it doesn't.

and just like an AFC is a man who can't stand on his own two feet, and AFC woman is a woman who doesn't know who she is and can only relate to others by playing 'roles'.

maturity is knowing who you are, what you stand for, and being consistent in that perspective.

 

[penkitten]

i also agree that people marry to young and too fast without knowing each other. as i did when i was younger in my first marriage.

 

[Mr.Positive]

the male life is a much harder life because no one will come and save your *ss. but its more rewarding in the long run, because through having to stand on your own you will come to know yourself, and really, that's probably the only purpose or meaning there is to this life.

This is a great point. I think sometimes we learn the most about ourselves when we get the sh!t kicked out of us. It forces us to be stronger, to grow, to reach our utmost capabilities.

"What doesn't kill you, makes you stronger."

It's through hardship that the capablities and the strength of men "shine".

 

[Luthor Rex]

I criticise women to their faces on these issues. I can do it because I clearly have no reason to be bitter about women because I am successful with them, respect them and have lots of female friends who are feminist leaning but will listen.

Most importantly, I don't do it in the manner of whining.I try and be funny. Comedians like Chris Rock can get away with pointing out women's flaws because they do it with humour, and they don't have a loser frame.

It's not fair, but it's the difference between an ugly feminist and a hot one. The ugly one's motivation is more likely to be seen as bitterness.

I seriously think you're on to something here... because I make racist jokes to the faces of some black co-workers and get away with it. (Yeah I'm white.)

But when I do it, I make it obvious I'm being ridiculous... I've been able to get away with saying things like:

"You know we're only giving you this to punish you 'cuz you're black."

"We, as a white-company, must do what we can to keep the black man down."

"Silly negro, freedom is for white-folk."

"We just got back from our weekly 'how-can-we-screw-darkie' meeting, and we came up with some great ideas this week."

Now these guys aren't strangers to me, so it's not as bad as it sounds. I think one of the best ways to beat racism is to make fun of it. How serious could anyone have taken Hitler if someone had come up to him, pinched his cheek and said "you're a cute little nazi, yes you are! yes you are!"

I'm sure there are similar things that can be said to a woman:

"It is my duty as a member of the patriarchy to tell you to shut-up."

"Look, I have a 'Y' chromosome so that means I'm better than you. No, no, don't worry I won't make you feel bad about how inferior you are."

"You know, the right to vote was only a symbolic gesture. We don't actually respect you."

If it doesn't work out, be sure to look for the man who got lynched by a group of angry feminists.

 

[Luthor Rex]

how did we do that? by somehow becoming mothers to our husbands. you know exactly what i mean by that, because you can picture some old couple where the woman is ripping the man a new one and he no longer speaks back, yet holds his tongue and tries to drown her out.
these are our grandparents who picked up behavior from their families that came before them.
these are the people that taught our parents that a woman should put her little foot down and lay down the law. ok. but they are also the same people that taught her that if a man says something back that disrespects her, to fight him tooth and nail with it.

Nope, sorry, but that doesn't describe my grandparents at all.

When one gave the other ****, the other would give **** right back. On both sides of my family neither the male or female was clearly the dominant one. In certain specific situations one would take a leadership role, and defer to the other; but overall there was no ruler-ruled.

What I mean is, my IRS agent grandfather would make the money decisions while my doctor grandmother would make the medical decisions. The leadership role was assumed where the person was an expert.

 

[Nighthawk]

Also, I've noticed that many women are often quite receptive to ideas that they now have too much power, that modern men are spineless and that's not attractive - while it's the men who are more likely to look at you like you are a woman-hater. Maybe they are worried their OverLadies will hear and punish them.

 

[Tazman]

That's why I have a problem with males who come here and think that this forum is just about "getting into women's panties."
they are competely ignoring their future, and perhaps theri (unlucky) children's future. And of course, the (unlucky) women in their lives.

Isn't that why this place is called the "Don Juan" discussion board? Sure, that doesn't mean we're restricted to talking specifically about what's necessary to get a woman to spread her legs, but it damn sure makes up the majority of reasons why we even bother with this place. To develop an understanding of the better ways of getting what you want from women. With 99% of it being sex.

Tell me, honestly, what do we want most from women? I've asked myself this question numerous times and for the life of me cannot see anything else. Hanging out with my male friends is much more enjoyable than with women because when I'm around them, it's usually because I'm anticipating/pondering sex or they just happen to be around at the time. I'm not saying you can't enjoy the company of women (I have), but I always default to my guy friends because we're similar, understand each other, and sex is absolutely not on the mind so you're there enjoying things in their purest form.

Have you ever hung around women when you're the only guy? It gets tiring after a while because you so don't care about the things they talk about amongst each other.

I think women just don't realize how much sex influences the mind of guys, even when we aren't thinking about it, all it takes is for an attractive woman to walk by and BOOM!! instant sexual thoughts. It's like our whole being is to devise ways of getting sex with minimal frustration (little exaggerated).

I can't think of a better rush than when you've successfully slept with your target woman. I'm an open-minded guy, but I find it extremely difficult to come up with other reasons for my desire to be around women.

 

[STR8UP]

the male life is a much harder life because no one will come and save your *ss. but its more rewarding in the long run, because through having to stand on your own you will come to know yourself, and really, that's probably the only purpose or meaning there is to this life.

This is a VERY interesting topic, and I have a busy weekend but I'm gonna try to start a thread about it soon.

We often talk about a woman's "self" as being attached to and dependent upon the man she happens to be with.

Men (REAL men) aspire to be better men, and women aspire to attract such a man.

 

[STR8UP]

I want to know where prostitution comes in. I know it's one of the oldest "professions".....but why did women go this low, so early in our history?

Why would you consider this "low"?

That's not a fact, it's your own moralistic POV.

And to answer your question..... it's all about economics

 

[STR8UP]

I can't think of a better rush than when you've successfully slept with your target woman. I'm an open-minded guy, but I find it extremely difficult to come up with other reasons for my desire to be around women.

I'm the official Sosuave "female friends" advocate.

But I will be the first to tell you (I even wrote a post about it) that I can't stand to be the only guy in a group of women.

For me the advantage of female friends is primarily entertainment (more fun partying) and the ability to meet other women who I DO really want to have sex with. Plus, the social proof I get from having women around is GOLD.

 

[penkitten]

I want to know where prostitution comes in. I know it's one of the oldest "professions".....but why did women go this low, so early in our history?

on page one of this thread, i told you about how in early established places that if a wife could not produce a child, she was afraid of the consequences of divorce or death. if they had the money, she would buy a personal slave, give the slave to her husband and pray that she could produce him a child in order to become a mother and hold onto her marriage and life. (more so the marriage)
after that, it became very acceptable for men to have many wives and slaves and concubines.

from that stemmed a form of prosititution.

being a concubine, meant that you would live with a family, have a home and food and forms of protection from the world, as long as you kept your mouth shut, dressed in a lovely robe, and stayed ready in line for the man of that house to choose you for the night to perform his nightly sexual activity. you were his prostitute. you prayed that you could bear his child, because that sacanded (spelling?) you and kept you there. however, your children were given to the man and his wife to raise. (not yours)

eventually in the new world of america, it was no longer acceptable to have these concubines and slaves, so when men wanted to wander from their wives, there had to be someone willing to perform these sexual duties with him. men were willing to pay well and economically, it made sense to some women to become a prostitute and work in brothels because there were only so many jobs available to a woman.

for a woman in those times, that did not want to enter into a marriage because they viewed it as a form of prison, did not want to be a nun, and did not want to be a spinster or teacher, this was the only other option and the best paying with the most freedom at that time.

 

[STR8UP]

Pen,

You have to remember that you can't use yourself as a gauge. Just by the fact that you are on a SELF HELP forum for men and conduct yourself in a mature way shows that you aren't representative of the typical female.

 

[joekerr31]

I want to know where prostitution comes in. I know it's one of the oldest "professions".....but why did women go this low, so early in our history?

hahaha. you consider prostitution 'low' but women don't. a lot of women treat their p*ssy as a tool.

guys get confused about this. because so many guys have a hard time getting in to a womans pants they figure that she's very very guarded about her p*ssy and who gets to touch it.

but thats utter bullsh*t. even some of the nicest girls would drop their panties in a split second for the right guy (say brad pitt or whatever). they don't think 'oh dear, should i let him stick his penis in my pristine p*ssy?"

women have no more sentimental attachment to their p*ssy than you have to your d*ck. many of them will let any bloke stick his d*ck in it for a few bucks.

i honestly think a lot of guys downplay a woman's rebuttals to have sex by telling themselves that she has to be protective of her p*ssy. which is such a load of sh*t. it doesn't hurt a woman to get f*cked, which is why a lot of women figure, why not bang 10 guys a day and make a 1000 bucks, it ain't hard work. a little KY jelly and their rolling in dough.

the truth of the matter is that prostitutes are a natural extension of the female views of sex. all women use sex, prostitutues use it to make money.

and who is it that dislikes prostitutes the most? other women. and why? because women like to be covert, and prostitutes are overt. prostitutes keep alive the notion that sex is a CHEAP commodity. where as women want sex to be viewed as the gold knox of commodities. that sex is worth literally paying another persons way through life, buying her the house, the car, paying for the kids, entering a binding contract where if she wants to leave she talks half of everything you earned, etc. - in essence, its the main driver to get married!

whereas prostitutes portray a completely different reality. give me a 100 bucks, blow your load, see you later.

you see, if sex becomes a CHEAP commodity (ie. 100 is all you need), then women have to start selling something else. right now, the primary thing most women are selling in a relationship is sex! and most guys are paying a HUGE price for it (perhaps not monetarily, but in other regards).

this is a normal woman's worst nightmare, that sex be relegated merely to a biological function and is no longer seen as this great prize that men will kill themselves to get and keep.

if men didn't have such a desire to get laid, women's power would evaporate over night. and prostitution, exemplifies a system where that is the case. currently its not the case, since there is a very small number of prostitutes to the overall male population.

but increase the amount of prositutes by say 10 to 100 fold and the current paradigm that women operate in would fall apart. women wouldn't be able to control men using sex and would have to keep them interested in other ways.

 

[Tazman]

in order for you to understand women, you must learn about women, womanhood and the bonds of womanhood. this thread will contain a history lesson, which may enlighten you on why women are the way that we are. this thread is for mature discussion only and i hope that you can participate here by sharing your views and opinions.

While I respect your thoughts and opinions I fail to see how any of this would educate men as to why women are the way they are. Ultimately, it seems like your saying "women are the way they are because of oppression by men". That's the underlying (feminist) theme of it all. It may not be what you intended (consciously atleast) but that's what I get from reading through all of it. I don't see how this helps the cause of men at this site. In fact, I think it does the opposite, by giving the wrong impression and making men feel almost guilty. I think having men "identify" with the struggles of women in the past breeds AFCism because those circumstances don't apply to modern life (atleast in America).

I'm not saying everything here is fair, far from it, but I also don't see how this "history lesson" improves things here at Sosuave. Just my take on it.

 

[penkitten]

I'm not saying everything here is fair, far from it, but I also don't see how this "history lesson" improves things here at Sosuave. Just my take on it.

i believe that by men not learning about women, creates afc'ism.
i believe that by women not learning about men, creates bi'tch'ism.

i don't see how ignoring our history will help anyone.
i think that by exploring our history, seeing what caused what, what lead to what, and just opening the mind to things you never thought of before, can always help you with your own mindset.
never one time in this thread did i accuse a man of creating feminism or try to make him feel guilty of anything.
that was never the intention at all.

perhaps you did not get anything out of the thread, but perhaps someone else did. there were lots of things of merit posted here by different members.
i think that in itself was important. we can agree to disagree and that's ok.

 

[STR8UP]

I have always said, you're gonna pay for the pu$$y one way or the other, so does it really matter HOW you pay for it?

Women are ALL prostitutes in the sense that they all use sex as a commodity. It's just that the "good" girls cover it up under the guise of relationships, marriage, and babies and such. The dynamic is similar (although not the same....you do get more from a real relationship than from a hooker), but the currency is different.

It is socially acceptable to both sexes for a man to "pay" for sex with dinners and drinks and flowers and whatnot, but as soon as it is a direct exchange of money for pu$$y it's EVIL.

Then there's the gray area where the boss is fukking the secretary or the model sleeps with the producer. How CLOSE do you have to get to a direct exchange before it's considered prostitution?

I do think though that the number of prostitutes could increase but you would also have to have availability (being legal) and a decrease in social stigma for it to have any real impact on how women use sex to manipulate men.

 

[Tazman]

i don't see how ignoring our history will help anyone.

Yet, the history that you started this thread with was pretty much ignored by the majority of the responses I've read.

i think that by exploring our history, seeing what caused what, what lead to what, and just opening the mind to things you never thought of before, can always help you with your own mindset.

Logically that makes sense, but you brought up specifics from the past that left people asking, ok what's the point, where's the message in all of this? I was hoping to see exactly what kind of correlation you were making with all this history, but the only conclusion I came to was that men have been oppressing women. Was that your point?

never one time in this thread did i accuse a man of creating feminism or try to make him feel guilty of anything.
that was never the intention at all.

That's why I used the word "seems". I'm asking questions to better understand what this is all about.

we can agree to disagree and that's ok.

With that said I guess there's no point in asking anymore questions.

 

[Tazman]

I want to know where prostitution comes in. I know it's one of the oldest "professions".....but why did women go this low, so early in our history?

hahaha. you consider prostitution 'low' but women don't. a lot of women treat their p*ssy as a tool.

guys get confused about this. because so many guys have a hard time getting in to a womans pants they figure that she's very very guarded about her p*ssy and who gets to touch it.

but thats utter bullsh*t. even some of the nicest girls would drop their panties in a split second for the right guy (say brad pitt or whatever). they don't think 'oh dear, should i let him stick his penis in my pristine p*ssy?"

Ain't that the truth.

I have always said, you're gonna pay for the pu$$y one way or the other, so does it really matter HOW you pay for it?

I guess it matters because of the ego that goes in to it, like if you pay a prostitute you're seen as "lowering" yourself. Even though sometimes I'd love to just pay an attractive woman to have some non-attached sex, but I've never had the nerve to do it. Maybe if I was in some other country on military duty it would seem more acceptable. I see what you mean though because it does seem like a monetary "transaction" when you look at all the things you do that lead up to it. 9 times out of 10 you WILL be spending money.

 

[penkitten]

perhaps i don't see where this thread had anything to really do with this site either ...
http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=78948
but yet, i never marched over to that thread to ridicule you for what you had written.

perhaps you prefer to stick to the help me get laid threads.
http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=72659
http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=59607
http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=70514

With that said I guess there's no point in asking anymore questions.

then why did you?