history lessons

[STR8UP]

why is there no men-ism in the news?

Because we are still too deeply ingrained in a pu$$ified society. Manliness is considered a negative trait nowadays.

It's kind of like the way a black person can make jokes about white people that wouldn't go over very well if things were reversed.

Society today REVOLVES around women. It's unnatural and it creates problems. Maybe it was the other way around in the past, but I think it was more women's PERCEPTION of injustice than anything.

Lets face it.....traditional gender roles WORK. Everyone is happier in most cases. Things will fall into a happy medium and even out one day, but for now there will be no "men-ism".

 

[iqqi]

Iqqi, why can't you be nice and submissive like Penkitten?

Actually, alot of the time I am, because,

men DO love that sh*t. So stop being taken aback.

Lol. Just not to pvssies. I have alot of love for real men.

 

[joekerr31]

rex, this is exactly something that should be brought up.
feminism never speaks about the men being oppressed, just that they contributed / helped cause their oppression.
why is there no men-ism in the news?

like i said earlier, and as rex's post more clearly elaborated, because men are at the top of the food chain no one cares what they have to say.

and yet the reality is that only a small handful of men are at the top of the chain, and the rest of the men are confined just like the women are - except the women get to complain and the men don't (well they can, but no one cares to hear it).

 

[penkitten]

except the women get to complain and the men don't (well they can, but no one cares to hear it).

people need to voice their concerns

 

[ketostix]

people need to voice their concerns

Well a man can't voice his concerns to a woman without being judged or labled "negative, a woman hater, having issues, a pvssy (iggi), loser, (insert derogatory adjective) etc..then the women is just going to go on and fvck one of the many guys who are being all good times and laughs. That's how the real world works.

You have Iqqi saying or more like making claims, "If you can't do a woman favors and expect nothing in return then you are a PVSSie" I rest my case.

 

[Nighthawk]

I criticise women to their faces on these issues. I can do it because I clearly have no reason to be bitter about women because I am successful with them, respect them and have lots of female friends who are feminist leaning but will listen.

Most importantly, I don't do it in the manner of whining.I try and be funny. Comedians like Chris Rock can get away with pointing out women's flaws because they do it with humour, and they don't have a loser frame.

It's not fair, but it's the difference between an ugly feminist and a hot one. The ugly one's motivation is more likely to be seen as bitterness.

 

[penkitten]

Well a man can't voice his concerns to a woman without being judged or labled "negative, a woman hater, having issues, a pvssy (iggi), loser, (insert derogatory adjective) etc..then the women is just going to go on and fvck one of the many guys who are being all good times and laughs. That's how the real world works.

You have Iqqi saying or more like making claims, "If you can't do a woman favors and expect nothing in return then you are a PVSSie" I rest my case.

keto... i agree that most women these days are advantagers but i am telling you that not all women are like that.
you can speak about your concerns without making it sound like you are a woman hater.

 

[joekerr31]

Well a man can't voice his concerns to a woman without being judged or labled "negative, a woman hater, having issues, a pvssy (iggi), loser, (insert derogatory adjective) etc..then the women is just going to go on and fvck one of the many guys who are being all good times and laughs. That's how the real world works.

You have Iqqi saying or more like making claims, "If you can't do a woman favors and expect nothing in return then you are a PVSSie" I rest my case.

bang on the money ketostix.

i actually know three guys right now, who are going through difficult times, and all of their women are looking at leaving them. the moment a man hits a rough patch in life, most women will bail on him.

the ONLY time complaining to a woman seems to get any response is during the beginning of the relationship. i've complained about my day and the woman is like 'awww baby, that's too bad. come here, i'll make it better.' in the beginning complain and women will sex you up.

but after a few months, a woman takes complaining as a sign that you are weak and not a real man.

in a womans mind as a man you're not suppose to have problems, you're suppose to solve them.

 

[STR8UP]

but after a few months, a woman takes complaining as a sign that you are weak and not a real man.

in a womans mind as a man you're not suppose to have problems, you're suppose to solve them.

That's why I am SOOOO hesitant to vent to ANY chick.

I have come to realize that it doesn't do any good anyway, and it only serves to lower your value as a man.

The 21 yr old that came to visit me a few weeks back......even though she is engaged she still has a thing for me, she even told me so. She is still at the "Come here I'll make it all better" stage because she never got what she wanted from me....a relationship. She tries to get me to tell her all my problems, but why would I? All it would do is lower my value.

I suppose I have nothign to lose because it isn't like I'm going to be getting with this chick. that's why I DID give her a little idea of what is going on in my life. But I really hesitate to go into full disclosure with ANY woman, even thought she says "But I want to feel like we are good friends", because at the end of the day, loss of value with a woman is just as infectious as an increase in value.

She knows a lot of my friends (mostly female) and this is the main group where almost ALL of the chicks see me as DA MAN. I don't want any negativity to find it's way down the chain and ruin my status among that group.

 

[Interceptor]

Well a man can't voice his concerns to a woman without being judged or labled "negative, a woman hater, having issues, a pvssy (iggi), loser, (insert derogatory adjective) etc..then the women is just going to go on and fvck one of the many guys who are being all good times and laughs. That's how the real world works.

You have Iqqi saying or more like making claims, "If you can't do a woman favors and expect nothing in return then you are a PVSSie" I rest my case.

Well said again, Keto.

 

[Interceptor]

keto... i agree that most women these days are advantagers but i am telling you that not all women are like that.
you can speak about your concerns without making it sound like you are a woman hater.

LOL, yes, to all one of them. Hah!
Maybe you're the only one, Penny!!

Props to you for not calling us names, emasculating, and calling us "woman haters"!!!

 

[ketostix]

That's why I am SOOOO hesitant to vent to ANY chick.

I have come to realize that it doesn't do any good anyway, and it only serves to lower your value as a man.

The 21 yr old that came to visit me a few weeks back......even though she is engaged she still has a thing for me, she even told me so. She is still at the "Come here I'll make it all better" stage because she never got what she wanted from me....a relationship. She tries to get me to tell her all my problems, but why would I? All it would do is lower my value.

I suppose I have nothign to lose because it isn't like I'm going to be getting with this chick. that's why I DID give her a little idea of what is going on in my life. But I really hesitate to go into full disclosure with ANY woman, even thought she says "But I want to feel like we are good friends", because at the end of the day, loss of value with a woman is just as infectious as an increase in value.

She knows a lot of my friends (mostly female) and this is the main group where almost ALL of the chicks see me as DA MAN. I don't want any negativity to find it's way down the chain and ruin my status among that group.

Exactly. If you complain to a woman about her behavor she just get's mad and starts labeling you a hater or this and that, and youre out. If you complain about your own problems or needs you "are no fun and negative..blah blah" and you end up in the friend's zone. It's like displaying AFC behavior. As a man, if you want things to get sexual or romantic you have no real option but be fake and accept women for basically how they are or like I said she'll just go and fvck one of the numerous other guys that are being all good times and laughs. You can't be real prior to the relationship because she'll just go with some other guy. Maybe you can be real for a short time a month or so into a relationship as joekerr suggested but I don't even think you can then.

 

[Interceptor]

That's why it's so important for some women to have a man that is a "rock." And I also agree. Becaue what the mascuiline ideal is that we not be overly swayed by emotions, and act logically, especially under stressful conditions and deanger. Not just to get laid, but becasue as men, this is our masculine destiny. This is who we really are. We just have to get over the programming and conditioning, and unfortuantely, the bad parenting as well.
So being the "rock" is actually a good thing, if it is approached in a healthy manner.

Essentially, not bothered by anything.
Ironically, you may get plenty of theses same women who feel they don't get enough communciation or emotional intimacy from these same men.
Go figure.

now , presonally, I don't really feel like I'm deep down bothered by anything anymore. maybe the death of a family member or someone's serious illness. ( a coworker's son died yesterday after a long bout with cancer. everyone at work chipped in for a healthcare cost fund, and I donated as much as I could. But the kid didnt make it. This kid had a bright future, but he'll never see it. That bothered me.)
But not much get s to my deepest core.
I don't think I'm at a point really where I feel I need to vent frustrations or difficulties in my life.
So I don't think that I would necessarily need a woman to be my therapist so to speak.
And the more I learn about women, the more I realize that there are very, very few women who won't somehow resnet you and judge you if you do in fact reveal some issue that affects you or something.

It sucks. Because, many men are somewhat romantic in their thinking,in that they would like a female as a partner, someone to share feelings and experiences with.
But, alas, some of these things are just better left uunsaid.
Interesting thing though, is there seems to be an increase in depression in many men. A lot of these men are also men who dont talk much about their feelings and really don't have a compassionate, and attentive partner that will listen to them they way a man wants to be listened to and understood.

That's one of the reasons why it's so important to really be selective of your choosing of an ltr or marriage partner.
It's not that hard to be the "rock", or not get too swayed by emotions. And being sensitive and compassionate and caring are virtues, not vices or uncivilized traits. So it's extremely unattractive in a woman to scold or actually insult a man for feeling something, even if it's unfortunately something negative.

But there's a difference in being a masculine man, and a robot. And there's a big difference in having feelings and compassion and being 'spineless and not having a pair". Some females seem to not recognize them at all.

 

[penkitten]

Props to you for not calling us names, emasculating, and calling us "woman haters"!!!

most of you are not women haters at all, in fact, most guys here really do love women, it is just that some guys lack some understanding, which is why i made the thread.(not you)
what i am seeing, is that somewhere along the line, women felt so deprived of being equals that we had to CON our way into becoming equals. once we got there, we tried to stand our ground.
how did we do that? by somehow becoming mothers to our husbands.
you know exactly what i mean by that, because you can picture some old couple where the woman is ripping the man a new one and he no longer speaks back, yet holds his tongue and tries to drown her out.
these are our grandparents who picked up behavior from their families that came before them.
these are the people that taught our parents that a woman should put her little foot down and lay down the law. ok. but they are also the same people that taught her that if a man says something back that disrespects her, to fight him tooth and nail with it.
so now we have our generation. men too afraid to speak up, with their women stomping their feet and making them grovel over the slightest things.

what is next?
and if history always repeats itself, when will women act like ladies again and men act like men again?

 

[Interceptor]

Perhaps if society were to restructure and show value in the differences between the sexes.


men and women in the end didn't get equality, we got sameness.

Men in our urban societies don;t have a Rite of Passage. Or masculine mentors anymore. becasue it's hard for men to realize their potential, women are now at a loss. Becaue we have a society that looks donw on masculinity. But one of society;s greates stregths is the reosurces of masculinity, and one of those is our Leadership.
So women, without our Leadership, are floating around trying to create a society. And what society is that? One in whioc masculinity is demonized.

But women in their desperation for security and leadership, have no where to turn to. It'[s a vicious cycle.

Men are condemened for being Men. Women are frustrated that there "are no men left".
Many Women taken over the role as Man of the household, and men get emasculated and hated by women, for giving women what they want.
the problem I see is that women are getting (or not, depending on who you ask) what they want, on their terms, not on a Man's terms.
And considering the state of mind of women, who many have felt deprived and supressed, the last thing they want to do is let a man lead. Let a man do what he wants?? Are you crazy!!
Guilt is already assumed. Poor character and immaturity is already assumed. Yet, as you stated where are the "menisms"? Why aren't women fighting to help men give them what they really want, which is after all, a REAL Man?


because after all:

"All men are dogs."
"All men are cheaters."
"All men are only after one thing."
"All men are incapable of intimacy."
"All men are unreliable."
"All men are stupid."
"All men are like pets, you have to lead them."
yada yada

Seriously, I was talking to a woman the other day at work, and she was telling me about a "nice man" she met.
She was telling me how she was playing the situation (very guarded and fearful) because "Who know? I may goto his house and he may pull out a gun and say to me "Give it up!" and rape me!!"
She was dead serious.This guy had a nice job, was very charming, had social status etc. But she pulled out the "Watch out for Men! They are not to be trusted!!" card.
She's not the only woman who has that kind of mindset.
Many women are terrified of men. Not rationally though. But of conditioning.
It is pervasive, unhealthy, but hard to stop or reeducate.
Am I saying that every sigle man out there is a Saint?
Nope.
but how come some people can look at another person of another ethnicity and not htink negatively in some stereotype of them?
How come that is mainstream?
And not the sad state of affairs we have today between men and women?




Women want respect, but they have to give respect as well.
society has helped to create a world where many men are unaware of their true potential, and shamed into not realizing it for themselves. They are made to feel guilty of their masculinity and made to feel unnatural for their masculoine ideals and desires.
It's up to men and women to do their part to fix this mess we have made.

That's why I have a problem with males who come here and think that this forum is just about "getting into women's panties."
they are competely ignoring their future, and perhaps theri (unlucky) children's future. And of course, the (unlucky) women in their lives.

 

[STR8UP]

Men in our urban societies don;t have a Rite of Passage. Or masculine mentors anymore. becasue it's hard for men to realize their potential, women are now at a loss. Becaue we have a society that looks donw on masculinity. But one of society;s greates stregths is the reosurces of masculinity, and one of those is our Leadership.

What was that quote from that site about women? It goes something like-

"A man must become, a woman simply is"

Or something like that.

 

[penkitten]

That's why I have a problem with males who come here and think that this forum is just about "getting into women's panties."
they are completely ignoring their future, and perhaps their (unlucky) children's future. And of course, the (unlucky) women in their lives.

i feel the same way.

 

[penkitten]

"A man must become, a woman simply is"

i believe a woman must become

 

[STR8UP]

i believe a woman must become

Hmmm....it's a little different.

This could be a good debate for another thread.

More on this later......

 

[joekerr31]

a woman's perspective on what it means to 'become' is different than a mans.

its like goddess are always hot chics that are also leafy trees or some sh*t.

and gods are always armor wearing warriors that represent some belief or ideal.


for a woman 'becoming' is about finding balance and being in tune will all areas of her life. which is kind of an extension of being the best at the variety of roles she has to play - mother, daughter, lover, sister, teacher, etc.

for a man 'becoming' is about becomign ONE thing. its about finding his true self and becomign a power unto himself. finding his passion and drive to conquor the world around him and be 'successful'. this in turn increases his chance of finding a good mate and also increases his ability to provide for that mate. a man is generally the same person, regardless of his roles - father, son, brother, teacher, etc. (lover is the one exception, but even here his personally is still very close to what it normally would be). a man strives to become pure, a woman strives to become diversified.

when we say that a woman simply is, we are correct in the sense that she doesn't have to discard her emotions and become a rigidly focused entity - whereas a man must. a man MUST sacrifice to become a man, you can't get there without sacrifice. but a woman's task is almost polar to a mans, where her job is to remain diverse and emotional in order to play the variety of roles expected of her.

this is one of the reasons women are so crazy. they are trying to be everything to everyone half the time, never feeling like 'themselves', not even knowing who THEY really are, and as a result (amny of them) are emotionally unstable.

i think thats the biggest thing we as men miss about the female experience. as men our lives are all about becoming the best US that we can. whereas we forget women are not raised that way. women are raised to be a variety of 'thems' - to have multiple faces to suit different areas of their life.

this is why men and women have such a hard time communicating. men want things to be black and white, lay the issues out, resolve them, move on the to the next battle. but for women, their inner lives are never orderly to start with. resolve one drama / issue, there are a 100 more laying in wait. so they dont care if something is resolved, and are more focused on 'venting'.

personally you couldn't pay me to be a woman. sure, if you want to be a *** recepticle its really easy to do that as a woman. but if you want to be YOU and to truly know yourself, its an almost impossible task if you are a female.

the male life is a much harder life because no one will come and save your *ss. but its more rewarding in the long run, because through having to stand on your own you will come to know yourself, and really, that's probably the only purpose or meaning there is to this life.