High school was useless, and so were all the other grades

[Holland]

Come on, as a child you take over very early. I'd say from the age of 4 or 5, times where you still have memory from.
The excuse that you we're 'only a child' doesn't change the fact that you didn't make **** happen.

 

[Desdinova]

A-Unit, that was a fantastic post!

But I'm going to take a different route on the subject. I'm going to explain how I see things, and that the Education System *COULD* be useful, but it has been overrated which has resulted in the way society developed.

I'd say that elementary school was useful. It taught us all the basics. It taught us basic math, reading, writing, social interaction, creativity and recreation. I actually enjoyed elementary school. It was high school that was a waste. Why do we need it?

All the things that are covered in high school are only extentions of what we learned in elementary. Why do we need trigonometry if we're going to be farmers? Why do we need to read Shakespear when we're going to be engineers? All of the things we learn in High School can be split up into specific fields for "higer education" such as college. College should be where we get career-specific information, not high school.

It was a sad moment when I realized what I was learning in college was already taught to me in High School. How many other trades are being crammed into a High School education?

Unfortunately, society has adapted to the overrated opinion that we NEED our high school diploma to get anywhere, and that we NEED a college education to get a good job.

Because of this, WE have to adapt to the system to accomplish what we want. We have to learn crap that we'll never use to get that diploma, to prove that we are educated and that we're worthy of hiring. For "special trade" jobs, we need that degree to prove that we know something about the job.

Those papers don't necessarily mean 5hit. It's the work experience that will come in handy. A person who is experienced in a specific field will do a much better job than someone who is only educated in that field. This website is living proof of that. Entrepeneurs are living proof of that.

But unfortunately, society has created an obstacle course for us to go through to survive in the real world. The best thing we can do is learn the obstacle course, run it, and use that crummy ribbon to get us where we want to be in the place of society. Or, we can avoid the obstacle course and defy what society has defined for us.

 

[Abbott]

I know one thing for sure: The high school, and earlier years, is mostly useless in it's current state.

Why are classes such as history and english literature required, but cooking and personal finance is not? I'm not suggesting that we completely ditch those concepts and classes, but the result is that a lot more people take those classes than ever need to. What does ancient Rome and Moby D!ck have to do with balancing books or configuring computer hardware? Since completing high school, not once did I need to know about those things. However, I wish I could've learned about cooking, a truly useful useful day-to-day skill. I agree some things are universally useful to everyone, such as basic math (algebra) and reading. But that skill set is smaller than what the current education system leads you to believe. Plus, certain things that probably should be included (cooking, personal finance), aren't. People seem to forget that educational institutions are a business, just like the many other businesses out there.

I like to learn about things, but I don't like school because of the red tape and other useless crap that's necessary.


Ben

 

[A-Unit]

Re:

It's a farce that school is about socializing and the "connections" you make. It's hardly that way at all. It's quite the opposite in fact.

Let's consider the multiple levels of control instituted in schools. First, you have the social scene which ranks people based on popularity which accounts for multiple factors of looks, athleticism, money, and status. That is accounted for by the INTERNAL ranking mechanism kids apply to one another. Perhaps you escaped this "ranking" system, or didn't care, but MANY dorks I knew of, that I went to grade and middle school with, were beaten up or picked on JUST because they were different. I wouldn't consider this healthy, normal, and natural. For those with the right mindset and parents, you can BECOME stronger, and I'm sure there are guys here who ended up this way and realized how to fight back. But the fact that LEARNING has to conflict with this social mechanism that's purely artificial is but ONE problem our current system has.

Then there's the EXTERNAL, INTENDED ranking mechanism that wants to teach EVERY person to be the same, learn the same, in the same method, etc. And like Pavlov's dogs, that get up to cram another subject into their overactive brain in just an hour or so. Never really DIGGING into a top they might truely enjoy. Instead the GOV tells you YOU NEED all these courses. You need to have familiarity with them. You might NOT use them, but you MUST have a grasp OF THEM. Yet, the eminent Henry Ford noted you don't need information unless you use it, AND, the thing you learn in real life is, YOU CAN FIND IT ANYWHERE ANYWAYS.

The system as it is built is built flawed. It's meant to be that way. It's meant to break apart the family unit, which USED to have a direct say in what their kids learned, RATHER than what the state FELT was useful to children. Does that sound wrong already? I understand A universal system would be helpful, but guess what, it's not possible. Why?

The BASIC building blocks of LEARNING, of being EDUCATED, prohibit that. Sure, if you take classes your PROACTIVELY choose, such as going to college, getting an MBA, or night classes, the you will work your hardest and CHOOSE what to learn that benefits you. Yet, you don't have that RIGHT for what, 12-16 years? And the only way to do so otherwise is join an elite private school, of which only 1% get into and can afford, OR, get home-schooled, which many parents opt for. We all here, now, today, learn differently, and want to learn different things.

If we're talking investments, there's BASICS you can learn, but after that, you could go 100 different ways. And therein lies the problem, school as we know it TRIES to teach things we need, but never digging in. Never allowing the student to learn much of anything retainable.

What would I need to sit here and chat with you? Nothing more than the books I have. Learning to read and write is perhaps the most important thing we can learn and understand. That's it. Beyond that, you can self-teach most things these days. Textbooks are written so easy students can teach themselves most of what they need.

Teachers ALSO used to be people from the community, people respected, well know, thereby the parents ALLOWED and TRUSTED those who would pass on information to their children, KNOWING that they're molding their young minds into a fashion the parents trusted. Can we say the same today? Sure, there's a few loving, caring teachers who aren't molesters or drunks, but most of them are so frustrated by the system, that they just succumb and give in. Anybody who's gotten out and gone, "damn i thought learning those things would make this EASIER, but it's not!" Should wonder WHY we have education if it doesn't make things easier, if most don't use what they learn, is it not wasted time? If only a few benefit, is it worth it?

I'd say no. Perhaps you can't turn things around en masse and JUST give back education to the parents'. First off, it's big business, too. The teachers are the largest union in the country. Secondly, the gov would never allow it. They want to program young minds early on, prohibit them from beginning and BEING unique. By going to school, every student is largely predictable and measurable.

What can be done? Any students currently in should supplement their study with more work @ the local library instead. Give them the books we read now. If it were my kids, I might consider home-schooling. If it wasn't possible, the best private schools. Lastly, he/she would be reading at home more than anything and learning, ala Rich Dad Poor Dad lessons, etc. At an early age he/she would be versed on Think And Grow Rich amongst other books. The lessons of yesteryear would be brought forth. That alone would instill unshakeable confidence and unbreakable armour.

-----------------------------------

I don't see a way you can implement ONE unified system of learning and call it OK. Especially if it's FORCED learning. If it wasn't FORCED, and there were ALTERNATE schools, then it would make sense. If you could construct your own classes, then all the better. But with the decline in arts and crafts classes, many are finding it near pointless to go. Even in the Northeast where public education is esteemed, family members from towns all throughout the area are finding their children dissatisfied at the loss in arts and craft classes, music, and other "humanities." The bottom line focus becomes English, but even that class is a waste based on its structure. History comprises many years of study, but is a "watered-down" feel good course, not one that instills lessons from HISTORY, or the TRUTH of it, which is merely in the eye of the powerful and victorious. Math ignores the basics of finance. You might learn compound interest, but few know the benefits and downsides to it in real life. You don't get many economics courses until MUCH later in life, such as HS or college, when students should get them in a simplified fashion in their grade and middle school years.

People WANT to learn, but they want to LEARN what THEY want to learn. Not what I want to teach you.

Even use this Site as an example. Sosuave is but one site with MANY different possibilities. But if you came here, and were not allowed the buffet of choices you can have, would you stay? If we said, "you have to learn this to get girls," you might 1) hate learning it 2) not believe in it 3) you might not need to learn that because you're not deficient in that area 4) want to choose action over learning and get in the field. Etc. But because of the OPEN end of the internet and seduction, every guy can add to their arsenal as they please. When they want. As they need to. To any point of mastery they choose.

---------------------------

It's like price fixing controls in the US. Perhaps we can't have a fluid system to the fullest, ie laisez fair (sp? - it's been awhile), BUT it's been noted government intervention in the economic landscape of the US does more HARM than GOOD, on top of what fluctuations in the money supply ALSO do to the economy.



A-Unit

 

[Permission]

Come on, as a child you take over very early. I'd say from the age of 4 or 5, times where you still have memory from.
The excuse that you we're 'only a child' doesn't change the fact that you didn't make **** happen.

You know, most people in junior and high school want to fit in. Almost every person wants to be seen as "cool" or "popular". Are you telling me that 75% of the school population just didn't try? You're arguing out of theory instead of reality. Have you been in high school before? Are you aware of what "cliques" are? It's kind of hard to "make **** happen" when a person is viewed as an outsider by cliques and doesn't have the resources to know how to improve social skills. Why do you think if a person under the age of 18 commits a crime, they don't get the same sentence?

 

[A-Unit]

Re:

Nice concept. I'll have to check it more.

I thought teaching would be fun, but then I realized...it doesn't pay, it doesn't offer anything I would enjoy teaching, I hate curriculums and standardized plans, and I would bring in too many outside books to support my classes, that I'd be ousted in a day. I would create a business-like school, one in which people could pay, but the real dig is, if people were RETURNED their tax dollars so they COULD CHOOSE what their kids learned, then it could be afforded.

It's like Social Security. You can't pull your dollars because everybody would want to do it, and eventually it would collapse, or people would mismanage their money and need assistance later in life anyways. There will always be a social need for specific roles, and thankfully, you can have that here. But when people are FORCED into roles because of lack of education and social controls, that to me is wrong.

Is it right when schools have Gay pride days and teach Gay concepts @ schools, with or without your knowing it? In Massachusetts it's happened a few times. I'm not opposed to anyone who is gay or their lifesyle. I am opposed to the fact that it's not PURE education people are learning. Instead, young minds are molded from very tender ages in an environment where they learn SOCIAL protocols, which MAY or MAY not be right.

As it SHOULD be, the FAMILY unit is meant to be the MAIN CONTROL VALVE of the child, not the other way around. Kids are looked at as property of the state now, and with the ease with which the GOV and DSS can take your kids, that should be fairly evident. On top of that, Bush's "No Child Left Behind" will assure our children that ALL kids learn at the same pace if they're in Public High Schools. Unfortunately NOT all schools are of the quality I speak of; some are far worse. My own HS had 5,000 kids back in 1998. Last article I read, lunch was being served around 9am, and parents were pissed because kids went hungry for hours, and would skip school to find more food. In most classes you can't eat or snack, so what is a kid to do when they have to wait 6 hours for more food, when they're growing at the fastest rate they will ever?

Those who forget history's lessons are doomed to repeat them, and we're so lax on remembering or researching the BASIS of forced public education that parents allow it with no regard for the psychological ramifications.

The comment by the poster who said it's a "babysitter" is absolutely right. It is. Drop off, pick up, and most times both are free. I'm sure there are kids who got 2.0's, or worse, who could have gotten 4.0's if given the right time frame or right type of testing. I had many gf's who couldn't learn direct from a text book, but could public speak like the best politician and would nail that exam with an A no problem, but were never tested that way. I can tell you the frustration of having to tutor them was no picnic. Moreover, in real life, which skills will be more valuable, your ability to confidently speak in public in front of strangers, OR, your ability to remember word for word everything you read and repeat it on a form?

I'll let you wise readers answer on your own...

I'm very, well, vehement on this topic, not only because I sensed something wrong years ago, but because I've bought books written by teachers who confirm everything I type, and everything I'd ever felt. Heck, just look at the millionaires...the basic barometer of teaching should be EQUIVALENT SUCCESS IN YOUR CHOSEN FIELD. If that were true, why aren't we learning Math from those who use it? Why aren't we learning Science from Scientists? Why aren't we learning Finance from money managers and wealthy? That's WHY the books you find written first hand have ALL you need over text books. And when you consider that teachers only learn what the state requires, and that their background is just multiple degrees, millions of pages of textbooks, and certifications up the arse, what are you going to Learn but what some arbitrary governing body tells you???

This life is what you make of it, right here, right now. School has minimal value beyond understanding math and reading and writing. That being the basis for all learning beyond the basics, you can unlock all the other secrets you so desire from there.



A-Unit

 

[Bible_Belt]

In Illinois, a person wanting to teach high school must take at least two full years of undergrad education courses. People with advanced degrees and real-world knowledge are not qualified. The teachers' unions have screwed public education by assuring that public schools draw employees because of the job security and benefits, not people who are motivated and passionate. We end up with lazy teachers and staff who only show up to count another day until retirement. Young teachers who are the exception usually find that the system sucks the life out of them within a few years.

 

[A-Unit]

Re:

The alternative isn't an ANTI-education thread or meant to start an ANTI-education rally. Rather it's meant to motivate people to LEARN what they love, early on. I see people disheartened because they can't or don't want to do what schools teach. Some, buck the trend. My brother, who's very artistic, accepted this, and chose music over the traditional path and has more pleasure from playing instruments than most people who have paper degrees based only non pleasurable things.

It's MEANT TO be fun. It's gratifying to learn something new, to comprehend, AND succeed with it. Whether it's learning the stock market and profiting, or learning real estate and profiting, or learning seduction and succeeding, or finding new ways to lift that yield greater results, PEOPLE ENJOY LEARNING, they just learn POINTLESS things that don't give them a great income stream or learn how to BUILD that income stream after they've accomplished so much.

What's the point if you receive a bachelors, don't use it, but go on for a Masters or Doctorate?

It sounds like employees just jumping through hoops for corporate america.

It's quite simple...what do I have to know, be, do or have, to experience the kinds of things I want to experience to bring more wealth, health, or love into my life? What do I have to do RIGHT now, to experience greater fulfillment?

Well 1) Choose to enjoy THIS moment RIGHT now. 2) Focus intensely on THOSE things that bring you happiness and DO more of them. Read about them. Put up pictures, posters, or fliers. Think about them. At the most random times you'll make progress from out of left field. When you focus POSITIVELY on something creative juices flow, and eventually your break through answer happens.

-----------------------

I absolutely commiserate with your post, Bible. I had an Xgf who was a teacher. She had to accept a speacial needs position since that was all that was available when she began. It lasted one year. The children loved her approach, as did the students, but the HIGHER ups and didn't. She was the new girl on the block, very personable, extremely quit witted, intelligent, but not what you'd call "book smart." She could learn and debate a topic, but she couldn't put it down on paper. Her presentations always got A's, but her tests on paper were C's or lower. They paid her a pittance to handle difficult, special needs children, and made it tough to do her job. When her year was up, she quit. It wasn't worth it. Some do, but most don't want to stay. I've read articles they don't have enough YOUNG teachers doing it, and since the pay isn't really there, you're not attracting TOP talent to teach kids. Not that ALL teachers are bad. I'm sure there's lots of great people, some teachers are wealthy, other's are poor examples for human beings. By and large though, they teach what's handed down to them through the chain of command. Textbook manufacturers rob the crap out of tax payers, and college students. It's useless info, no better than a dictionary, and perhaps worse, because people have such a poor grasp of the english language and such a base vocabulary. Most resort to twisting it, and then calling it "being free from the matrix."


A-Unit

 

[Brian20o2]

So much of this stuff is true. I can tell you from experience being that Im going into my senior year of HS. The arts fundings are being dropped here from middle and elementary school, in fact our choir class is trying to raise awarness of this so we can continue the funding. Alas we are only required 2 years of math and 3 of science but we need 3.5 years of english? And 2 years of that is useless literature. Finance and Managment classes are optional and rarly are taken.

A-Unit, my respect for your knowledge never stops growing. You always tell it like it is and show the true side of everything.

As for me, I wil be reading alot of my own curriculum in my final year to prepare me for the real world (Because we know HS doesn't). I think now that home schooling my kids would be the best way to raise them so they get much usefull education and not a bunch of useless stuff. I want my kids to get the very best even if I didn't get that opportunity.

 

[Shiftkey]

I think alot of you are taking what you know for granted when you say school is useless.

 

[A-Unit]

Re:

To what extent do you believe that Shiftkey?

-------------

Clarifying or reiterating my previous statements, EDUCATION isn't useless, it's format, it's forced nature, the system is. As of now, I wouldn't advocate ANTI-education rallies, though it concerns me when defense is 100x education by budget standards. Then again, why flush more dough down a failed system?

Education, learning, growing is life. Schools COULD possibly be revived, if they installed DIFFERENT systems to think, however their existence is based on the purpose to make ALL people alike. To not THINK independently or differently. Is this not true? ALL kids take the same classes?

There's the saying, when ALL you have is a HAMMER, every problem looks like a NAIL. When you ONLY have one tool, you can't possible bend your thinking another way. Over 16 years of schooling ONE WAY, it's very hard for people to be FLEXIBLE, to BEND, to see life and jobs, and education ANOTHER way.

Elite private schools which formulate the bonds that create successive generations of the ruling body take many liberal arts classes. History is delivered from a context much different than we receive at a public level. This is because there is actually a way of delivering education so that leadership is enhanced. It isn't so much BOOOHOOO, because anybody can go the library and get knowledge that will change their circumstances, but it is sad when people are forced to do it. When Truant officers will pluck you out of your home and drag you to school.

When wonderful books like Think and Grow Rich, or even concepts brought up by Rich Dad Poor Dad are not discussed, how can we respect "Education?"

Many successful people continue with school, but supplement ALONG the way. I have cousins in school, that were advanced a year or 2 at 4 and 8 years old, who do extra stuff @ home. Not that everybody has to, but the disillusionment of people has come to fruition. The expectation is that YOU go to school, graduate, and get a job. A great job. The world worked that way when lots of people weren't educated, when jobs were physical instead of mental, when managers actually were in great quantity and were paid quite a bit, when MBA's were rare, instead of commonplace.

I've found the stuff I learned post college, and post HS to be of the greatest value. School did teach me HOW to learn that I could learn, and what was useful and what wasn't useful. But freaking 16 years to accomplish what?



A-Unit

 

[diplomatic_lies]

I don't think the problem is the schools. I think the problem is the TEACHERS.

Screw the system, a good teacher can make geniuses in a crappy public school. I divide teachers into 3 species:

1) The "Happy Fun Joy" Teacher. Seen in primary schools, this happy person can make maths seem fun. Unfortunately, not very bright (thus only seen in primary schools).

2) The "Screw This Sh!t" Teacher. A high school breed, this species can often be found with a hangover, and a general dislike for kids."Screw This Sh!t" teachers just want the day to end, dammit. They're the #1 cause for bored students.

3) The Snooty Academic. They usually have 15 different PhDs, usually in liberal arts and business. They use words nobody can understand, read obscure books, and display comtempt for the "unwashed masses". They are usually failures in the real world, and prefer the safety of their ivory towers.

 

[A-Unit]

Re:

Diplomatic_lies,

I would recommend you read "The Underground History of American Education," by John Taylor Gatto. Formerly a NY teacher who was voted Top teacher in NY several times and had many higher ranking offices above and beyond teacher, he set out to write books on where education came from, what he has come to understand as an insider, and what he wants people to know about the dark and sordid history.

I will admit, I've had my share of AWESOME teachers, perhaps 50% or more, who made learning fun. Who made classes fun. But then again, I like learning, anything, useless or not. It's eye-opening and enlightening.

And granted, teachers definately fit into categories. However, a great chef can't turn crap food into an exquisite buffett. A great chef can't taken rotten vegetables and make a beautiful salad. And that's what teachers do. The material they have, even if they're a GREAT teacher only gets them 50% of the way there. A great teacher provides OTHER intangible benefits, like inspiration, wisdom, knowledge, etc, that might help when you're finishing school or seeking advice or need tutoring. Or perhaps, they can make a subject that is mundane more enjoyable. But they can't change WHAT is taught. They can't change HOW it is taught to a large extent, and by that I mean, we'll still have written, standardized tests, that seek to make everyone learn at the same speed, in the same way, the same things. Am I missing something?

Even in SEDUCTION areans, not everybody wants to learn the same things. So when learning is of the UTMOST in importance are we learning the same things? Why can't they picked by our parents, OR, by us? Even then, it doesn't change the dynamics of HOW it is taught, which is standardized, and that alone is a killer. There's many people quite smart, who just can't re-write something but can speak it, or draw it out, or play it out.

Standardized school refutes the basic fact that we're ALL different and unique and that that is ok. Doesn't it? Teachers don't do anything, but make it better to a small extent, or worse to a larger extent. And I had those teachers, too, who seemed like they had drug problems, or booze problems, or brought their problems to school. Great! Not only do your parents yell at you, but douche bag teachers with problems do too! And some parents ALLOW it because teachers and education are seen as god. If kids do well and are praised, it means automatic success, if they're not, then they're failures, and no parent wants that. So the parent takes the advice of the teacher, ALTHOUGH the teacher is most cases has never run a business, works for the state government, earns perhaps less than the parent, and has only experience in reading, and reading, and reading, and certifications, but no real world experience outside of textbooks. I'm not KNOCKING all teachers, as I've had some great and smart ones. But keep in mind WHAT THEY TEACH. It isn't about MIND expansion, creative thought, or thinking for oneself.

Rather it's about learning these subjects, parroting them back, and being told they're useful.

I've taken maybe 10 science courses and I can't tell you the anatomy of a flower. I liked chemistry, and if I wanted to pursue it, I would have as a child. In post college life, maybe I'll make some beer. As far as math goes, I enjoyed it, and its useful, but you can always ACQUIRE the knowledge you need in short-time, for most people. It doesn't take much time to learn how interest compounding works, or how appreciation works, or how financing works. It might take longer to get calculus, but most times teachers are just reiterating the SAME problems, different wants to get you to think a bit differently about solutions. Yet, calculus has nothing to do with real life. Algebra is handy, esp. if your kid takes it. And so is Geometry.



A-Unit

 

[Cowhead418]

Wow, this thread really makes me look forward to my Junior year in High School coming up. As for the useless classes, I really enjoy the History classes, and school would be 10 times worse without them. But then again that's just me, and I tend to expand my learning outside the classroom. I have found the #1 most useless, worthless class to be Foreign Language. Words can not explain my hatred for French. I'm going to try and convince my parents to let me drop the 4th year. There isn't a more pointless subject and I will be a much happier person when I don't have to remember that BS again.

I agree with A-Unit about self-learning. Last year, my teachers were routinely angry at me for not listening in class, but when I got home I taught myself the material from the textbook anyway. There were countless times where I was confused for the entire two weeks of a Chemistry Unit, then the night before the test I would teach myself the material and ace the exam the next day. I've found that learning the way you want to learn works much better than the mindless drivel some teachers regurgitate at you.

 

[Brian20o2]

My biggest beef with schools is homework. You see, I've never been the homework kind of guy. In my opinion if I pay attention in class, do the class work, and get great test scores, why should I have to waste my valuble time at home on somthing I already have a grasp on? To make it worse, you don't have to have the correct answers on HW to get full credit and the teachers rarly even check if you're right or not. Add on to that the fact that Homework makes up 20-30% of your grade and BAM! No wonder I get a 3.0 instead of a 3.8 even though I get about 92% on EVERY TEST I TAKE IN EVERY CLASS!

 

[Desdinova]

I have found the #1 most useless, worthless class to be Foreign Language. Words can not explain my hatred for French.

It would be much different if you had a reason to learn french. If you were interested in the french culture, wanting to visit france, and possibly even move there, you would love learning french. But since you have no desire to do any of those things, the time could be better spent on something that you enjoy learning.

My biggest beef with schools is homework.

The way I see it, homework is the overspill. Like I said in my earlier post, they're trying to cram as much into high school as possible and provide a little bit of everything so that school can "appeal" to everyone. The result is, for every one subject you enjoy, there are ten others that you have no interest in.

It's like trying to overfill a small bowl with potato chips. The chips start falling over the edge of the bowl and onto the floor. That's essentially what homework is. It's the overspill of what they can't fit into a whole school day. And they expect you to pick those chips off the floor and eat them.

 

[A-Unit]

Re:

Homework would be FINE, if that homework was connected to something other than "busy work." It's not.

In college, I recall taking accounting classes, which are pretty boring, and in the classroom, dont compare to what you do in real life. The concepts and the laws and the strategies, yes. But the actual studying is hard to follow to the 'doing.' If I were doing a class in accounting, I might offer the students projects in accounting, such as balancing the books of a company. Or doing odd, real life cases studies. Or learning concepts that are Saleable to clients to save them massive money. Connect the COURSE work to real world benefits and/or improvements. THAT's why you learn.

Few people choose to improve in life because they're HAPPY where they are at. If they're not, they study, learn, take courses. If all you study is definitions, like you're observing, you can't bring anything of value. So when you're studying in school, use your CREATIVE mind to see where you can apply what you learn, or use your creative mind to generate entirely new ideas.

It's as if it occurs in a VACCUUM. That's what makes you a "great tool," or employee. You're armed with THOUSANDS of DOLLARS in education, but can't make USE of it. If you could, you'd stop when you had enough, make some bucks, and go back for some more until you've made or done what you wanted. In some cases, it's simplifying your life. In some cases it's making more money.

-----------------

You don't have to be an BUSINESS owner, you can be an employee, and learning to not only ACQUIRE the knowledge, but APPLY it, enables you a FASTER ascent to the top. Getting degrees shows you can learn, and the company will put you to work, but if you're USING the knowledge to benefit the company in a way you and you alone know, then you'll be TOP CEO soon, or HEAD SALES MANAGER soon. Whichever path you choose.

My uncle who has a company in Boston, paid his Accounting Officer $10,000, which was half the $20,000 that he'd saved the company by analyzing and restructing the health care benefits they gave the company. Each time you awaken....whether it's a job, or your own business...you'll be thinking...

-How can I make position better? More effective? More efficient? What value can I bring? What changes can save us money, bring us more revenue, save us more time, or give the clients more value?
-How as a business owner, can I generate more sales on less time? What systems can employ? What networks can I tap? What sort of systems will work best for my industry? Does the current system make sense or there better methods?

Whether it's a JOB or a role as a BO, you can bring value, because EVERY person is SELF EMPLOYED. EVERY PERSON. You CHOOSE to get out of bed and do what you do. You're not a slave. You can change career paths ANYTIME YOU WANT. And thus, you should see yourself as a BUSINESS, whether you're a BUSINESS running you're own, or you're a BUSINESS as an employee...what do you have to do to be better at what you do? Being better encompasses ALOT of things...

-More education
-More free time
-More value to your boss
-More value to the company

Within those frameworks it's very different. An HR person would want to bring more employee loyalty, and more cost-effective benefits via her position, and make it easy for people and owners to know what benefits are available and how to choose them. An accountant would want to bring clients more tax savings, and perhaps financial planning. They would want them to make smart choices year round on how to save on taxes. And when to implement an IRA vs a ROTH. A sales person wants to meet the most likely purchasers in the shortest amount of time who will buy fairly quickly, thereby saving time on prospecting. EVERY person can find value where they are, UNTIL they're ready to ascend to a new spot.

Now that I'm off tangent...

A-Unit

 

[GQ_Confidence_1]

I'm 28, and looking back on middle school, highschool and college, government school is the biggest con in the world. It's a cult. A scary cult. I'm so glad I'm out.

You'll realize that when you're in your mid 20's and that nothing you learned (in 10 years), is helping you advance your career, buy a home, understand the economy (the housing bubble) or a 100 other issues you're thinking about.

-There's no dissent in school. There's no questioning of anything. It's a very strict, very very VERY rigid, very controlled environment.

You must take the SAT.

You must study for tests.

You must spend this amount of time in each class (even though you may be far better off spending more time mastering your finances than mastering english lit).

You must work at the same pace as everyone else. Even though outside of school, you can work as fast or as slow as you want on things.

It's a very ineffective and distracting learning environment. Just because you're in class for an hour does not mean that you're learning during that hour. You might be worrying about some kid in class, worrying about what to say to a girl. Learning under stress isn't the best way to learn something.

There's no timeout in school. There's no..."would you like a class of water before you continue." Everything is strict and absolute. You don't realize how forced it is until after you get away from it for awhile.

-There is no limit to what you're asked to do or what you're expected to pay.

Teachers can give you any amount of homework they want. Whether 10 minutes or 2 hours. Whether on the weekday or weekend.

There is no limit to what you are expected to pay. Take SAT prep for example.

"It's for college, you have to take it!", so goes the thinking. There's no limit to whether you spend $1,000 or $2,500.

There's no limit on the cost of college books. Whether they are $15 or $150. It's for college! You must have it! They could charge $500, what can you do?

There's no limit to the debt you can incur. "It's college!!". What's the big deal.... whether it's $30 k, or $50 k? Why not $75 k while you're at?

I think it's a tragedy that you spend 10 years, from middle school to college, and by the time you leave...

-You're usually deep in debt
-You've squandered a huge opportunity cost (living at home, with no expenses, no worries) on classes you'll never use again. That's time you could have spent building a business, buying real estate, developing professional skills.
-You've been brainwashed into thinking that the only way to learn is in a classroom.

When you exit the classroom, you don't learn how to value your time or your resources. You get so use to other people controlling them, that it can take awhile for you to regain control.

If you're still in school, I would really encourage learning on your own and forging your own path in life. There's so many things out there and so many things to do.

The exciting thing out of the school "bubble" is that you can do anything. I love youtube and have been watching some great piano clips. You can learn piano, you can read wikipedia, you can read rich dad.

I learned some cool math from watching Donald Duck in Mathmagic land, lol. You can learn anywhere. The idea that "school" has a monopoly on knowledge is just madness.

Best of luck guys.

John

 

[Falcon]

hmmmm... Am I the only one here then who actually feels school is a good thing? I actually enjoyed school and now that I look back at my high school years and before, I wish I would've taken it more seriously. I agree with many of you that the school system can be improved, but to say things like it's there to ruin your life or it's all useless seems absurd. Look at it this way. If you were to take away all of your schooling and replace it with your 'drive', are you really that confident that you would be a much greater person than the person you are today?

I feel this is really just a problem of perspective. Most likely all of us here went through public schooling. The problem is we see it only through our eyes. We didn't take the other route. For all we know, we could be taking all the benefits public schooling has given us for granted. Now ask someone who is in a third world country if public schooling is worth it. A place where kids have to really learn everything from their parents and experience. You may get a very different answer. To them, they may consider public schooling a gift from the heavens, even if it's not perfect.

 

[ValleyDJing]

High School is a joke. I sleepwalked through those 4 years and still managed to get a 3.0 GPA.

Still, sometimes I wish I would've actually put all my effort in and got better grades and prepared myself for college. I settled for good instead of great. I wish I would've gone for greatness, mainly because my desires and life aspirations have changed since I left high school. I now want to enjoy the finer things in life and am no longer satisfied with upper, middle class, I want to be upper class. I want to live the American dream and have a big ass house in Santa Barbara, I want to be driving the drop top whips with huge rims, wear the most expensive clothes, etc. But thats really not possible anymore as I have chosen a path where the best I can really do is $100,000 per year, and thats when I'm middle aged. To support the kind of lifestyle I want to live, I need to be making that type of money at 25, not 50. But what can you do? You just have to live with your decisions and buy a bunch of lotto tickets.