"Hey, I need a quick female opinion on something."

[white_hype]

Openers can be really fun. You can EASILY make your own, but try to have it lead somehwere so it seems you are cool/have higher value than the girl. However, these are already light years ahead of 90% of the guys out there (that even bother to approach a girl) so it will already seem like you are interesting/different/cool. If you follow the opener up with a short/funny story that displays your cool/have more value, then it will get her to be more comfortable and she will give you stuff to talk about, rather than just really short answers that you can't build off of

ie-Hey guys, I need a quick female opinion on something... I have to get back to my friends in a second(time constraint, shows you have friends) , but my friend and I were debating, are those clear tinted shades hot on guys or not?
her- blah blha
me- hmm... check this out

last weekend I was at this party one of my girl friends was having (shows you have girls as friends and go out) a party and
OR
I was in Miami last weekend and EVERYONE was wearing those. Girls, guys, babies in strollers (shows you travel, kinda funnty too ) it was ridiculous.

you can then change the convo/add a routine/add more to the story/do a cold read (ie- if she likes tinted shades on guys... oh you must be really into fashion, blah blah)


I actually made this one up on the fly, while drunk, at some bar. I was geniunely intreested in it (b/c of the Miami thing) and asked some HB5 and her response "I think you'd look hot in them" me-uhh ok... *runs* lol. This kind of opener is good too b/c it allows the girl a chance to show interest in you

you can be like
so do you think I should pick me up a pair blah blah, you should get some too then we could match and make everyone jealous of our stylishness, blah blha

 

[Jariel]

Re: Just be REAL

Originally posted by Royal Elite
You are here to learn to be MEN not sneaky, cat burglers who try to develop ways to steal a woman's number from under her nose.

I like the way you put this because this is exactly what I hate about the PUA style.

A woman is attracted to you or she is not. That's nature. Now, the only way she will know for sure is if she gets to see a genuine side of you. If anything, a contrived opener will decrease your chances by making you look false, unable to think on the spot and unoriginal.

Breaking the ice with anyone is best done using "phatic communication" - referring to a situation, a common interest or observation. People have been doing this for centuries.

 

[Derek Flint]

Originally posted by Inc. ©
Hey guys....I first field-tested this opener yesterday and it was really good...here it is:

"Excuse me, I don't mean to bother you, but are you from _______?"

Why are you excusing and apologizing for talking to them?

 

[Inc. ©]

Originally posted by Derek Flint
Why are you excusing and apologizing for talking to them?

See, that's KBJ BS right there. I knew somebody would point that out. Everyone thinks you have to be alpha this alpha that, but that's not the way it works in reality. The bottom line is if she is sitting there minding her own business and you approach her, you have to see the reality of the situation. I acknowledge that I am interupting her. Now, what I don't do is wait to see if its OK to talk to her. I don't pause. I don't wait for her to tell me I'm not bothering her. I go right into my opener.

Another thing that is 100% true is that the way you say things is the key. I wouldn't approach with a really short opener anymore. I wouldn't just say "are you single" or "are you from ____". Any guy can blurt something like that out. If you put together 6+ words or so (haha like that is hard) and speak confidently, she'll respect you.

 

[white_hype]

Re: Re: Just be REAL

Originally posted by Jariel
I like the way you put this because this is exactly what I hate about the PUA style.

A woman is attracted to you or she is not. That's nature. Now, the only way she will know for sure is if she gets to see a genuine side of you. If anything, a contrived opener will decrease your chances by making you look false, unable to think on the spot and unoriginal.

Breaking the ice with anyone is best done using "phatic communication" - referring to a situation, a common interest or observation. People have been doing this for centuries.

disagree.

some people (a lot) don't know how to show their genuine side well.. maybe they get nervous and blank out, not knowing what to say but in reality they are a really bad ass cool dude but just have trouble showing it right away to strange new women.

I like to think of routines/canned stuff as training wheels. It eases your nerves so you can actually go out there and get field expereince. I use them sometimes b/c even if I'm not that nervous, I just blank. I just don't know what to say, I THINK TOO MUCH. THis way I can just go up there, relax, and spout this crap off. I still receive all the benefits anyone else would by approahcing a girl (natural high, confidence booster, realise that its no big deal etc)

there is no one way to "get" a girl and for you to critize someone else for ANY reasons really shows what kind of person you are. What have you gained by posting what you posted? do you want others to agree with you so you feel better about yourself/your methods? are you really trying to help someone by saying "canned" stuff is bad and that it is somehow wrong and everyone sholud do things the way you think they should be done b/c why? b/c you are jariel and have a lot of posts?

 

[Inc. ©]

Re: Re: Just be REAL

Originally posted by Jariel
I like the way you put this because this is exactly what I hate about the PUA style.

A woman is attracted to you or she is not. That's nature. Now, the only way she will know for sure is if she gets to see a genuine side of you. If anything, a contrived opener will decrease your chances by making you look false, unable to think on the spot and unoriginal.

Breaking the ice with anyone is best done using "phatic communication" - referring to a situation, a common interest or observation. People have been doing this for centuries.

It's difficult to think up an opener on the fly for every situation so it's good to have one on reserve. I don't use tactics myself, but a solid opener is important. I don't think you could find anything gimmicky with "excuse me, I don't mean to bother you, but are you from _____?"...I think even you could live with that opener.

 

[white_hype]

Re: Re: Re: Just be REAL

Originally posted by Inc. ©
It's difficult to think up an opener on the fly for every situation so it's good to have one on reserve. I don't use tactics myself, but a solid opener is important. I don't think you could find anything gimmicky with "excuse me, I don't mean to bother you, but are you from _____?"...I think even you could live with that opener.

true but why settle for 8th place when you could easily get 1st? My point is I think the opener is very weak.
It is a YES/NO opener... she will most likely say "yes/no" then what? Don't sell yourself short, I think you could easily come up with a better opener. IF you are appraoching just to get the experience of the approach then use it. Use whatever you want for that b/c it makes little difference what you say if all you want to do is say something. Make sense?

 

[Jariel]

Re: Re: Re: Just be REAL

Originally posted by Inc. ©
"excuse me, I don't mean to bother you, but are you from _____?"...I think even you could live with that opener.

Yeah that's sounds very natural, as long as you have reason for asking (maybe her accent). To me that sounds like a genuine ice breaker rather than a gimmick or chat up line.

White Hype: I totally see your point about the "training wheels" and there is courage to be found in familiarity. However, I do believe the best openers are the ones that don't sound like openers (like the above example) or at least seem like they've been thought out on the fly.

I know what you mean about a "better" opener, but sometimes it's too good to the point of sounding unatural, whereas some you might get a yes or no, but can be followed up with other questions.

 

[Inc. ©]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Just be REAL

Originally posted by white_hype
true but why settle for 8th place when you could easily get 1st? My point is I think the opener is very weak.
It is a YES/NO opener... she will most likely say "yes/no" then what? Don't sell yourself short, I think you could easily come up with a better opener. IF you are appraoching just to get the experience of the approach then use it. Use whatever you want for that b/c it makes little difference what you say if all you want to do is say something. Make sense?

I disagree. It worked fine for me yesterday. As long as its delivered properly and she is moderately attracted to you, she'll give you more than yes/no. She'll tell you where she's from which opens up a real conversation.

Another reason I like this opener is because its a PERSONAL question. It gets you talking about her and her talking about you, not about some cologne or some fight outside.

 

[Inc. ©]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Just be REAL

Originally posted by Jariel
Yeah that's sounds very natural, as long as you have reason for asking (maybe her accent). To me that sounds like a genuine ice breaker rather than a gimmick or chat up line.

You don't need a genuine reason. That's the point. She'll probably never ask why you're asking her, but if she does you just say she looks like someone you saw there. It's just a little white lie where you act like you've seen her before.

 

[pimpfromdayone]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Just be REAL

Originally posted by white_hype
true but why settle for 8th place when you could easily get 1st? My point is I think the opener is very weak.
It is a YES/NO opener... she will most likely say "yes/no" then what? Don't sell yourself short, I think you could easily come up with a better opener. IF you are appraoching just to get the experience of the approach then use it. Use whatever you want for that b/c it makes little difference what you say if all you want to do is say something. Make sense?

I thought you were just telling someone else that criticism for any reason is stupid? Ah well, it doesn't matter, but I say, an opener is an opener, just a way to initiate contact. For most people finding what to say AFTER the opener can be a challenge too. If you go up to her with some routine like a cologne trick, she isn't going to really take you that seriously first of all, and second of all, it will make it harder for you to transition into REAL conversation, simply because you do a complete 180 right there. She can walk away within seconds if you can't find something else to talk to her about. As DJ's we are faced with constant contradictions: show some interest, but don't act that interested; build rapport with her but don't move in too fast; be original, but not awkward, try-hard, or "canned"; compromise your comfort for hers (leave your comfort zone), but somehow meet her half-way in between your realities, you get the picture. Everything we do, including openers, is a result of this never-ending conflict of ideas. You can do it perfectly, but at the beginning, you probably won't, and I think at that time at least you should err towards the friendlier, more typical side (unless the girl is obviously the "princess" type). After all, what do you think all the dumbasses in the world with double digit IQ's are doing to get their women? I can guarantee they aren't sitting there thinking up perfect openers and figuring out how the woman's mind works. They merely take action, without much higher brain functioning, and, as dumb as they are, they're are successful.

 

[Jariel]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Just be REAL

Originally posted by pimpfromdayone
As DJ's we are faced with constant contradictions: show some interest, but don't act that interested; build rapport with her but don't move in too fast; be original, but not awkward, try-hard, or "canned"; compromise your comfort for hers (leave your comfort zone), but somehow meet her half-way in between your realities, you get the picture. Everything we do, including openers, is a result of this never-ending conflict of ideas.

So damn true!! I don't think it will ever be possible to agree on a 100% guaranteed method or technique as people experience personal success with different things. Again, it's another argument in favour of "field testing" and learning from experience.

And I think it's fair to say that as long as people are experiencing success by their own standards, it's hard to criticise their methods, no matter what they might me.

 

[Sir Lancelot]

Re: Re: Re: Just be REAL

Originally posted by white_hype
disagree.

some people (a lot) don't know how to show their genuine side well.. maybe they get nervous and blank out, not knowing what to say but in reality they are a really bad ass cool dude but just have trouble showing it right away to strange new women.

I like to think of routines/canned stuff as training wheels. It eases your nerves so you can actually go out there and get field expereince. I use them sometimes b/c even if I'm not that nervous, I just blank. I just don't know what to say, I THINK TOO MUCH. THis way I can just go up there, relax, and spout this crap off. I still receive all the benefits anyone else would by approahcing a girl (natural high, confidence booster, realise that its no big deal etc)

there is no one way to "get" a girl and for you to critize someone else for ANY reasons really shows what kind of person you are. What have you gained by posting what you posted? do you want others to agree with you so you feel better about yourself/your methods? are you really trying to help someone by saying "canned" stuff is bad and that it is somehow wrong and everyone sholud do things the way you think they should be done b/c why? b/c you are jariel and have a lot of posts?

Agree 100%. The canned stuff makes for good training. I don't think there's anything wrong with having a good opening line, it gets your foot through the door and gets her talking.

 

[white_hype]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Just be REAL

Originally posted by Inc. ©
I disagree. It worked fine for me yesterday. As long as its delivered properly and she is moderately attracted to you, she'll give you more than yes/no. She'll tell you where she's from which opens up a real conversation.

Another reason I like this opener is because its a PERSONAL question. It gets you talking about her and her talking about you, not about some cologne or some fight outside.

well i agree and disagree

anything can work, and I mean anything. I've used some of the most ridiculous openers in the world and they've worked. I simply meant, while 1 thing could work, another way could work better. I was just trying to throw some stuff out there to get people thinking

but now we are just debating theory/crap. Point is, anything can work and going out and trying different stuff out will determine what works best for you

 

[Rudy_TubeSteak]

Damn this thread has generated some interesting input. Should I feel like a chump for using openers? Hell no!!! I might be no AFC but certainly not a fully fledged master senior DON JUUUANNNN with 13256.235 posts to my name.

Ok back to my point. The openers I am using and what I think the posters on this board are trying to say are NOT canned bullsh*t. When I open a girl using these “so-called chumpy openers” (as you guys are trying to say) I am genuinely interested on her input. I am genuinely valuing opinions because I REALLY do mean what I say and ask.

*For the cologne thing I wouldn’t go asking for girls’ opinions if I smell like ass. I do like colognes and I would appreciate it if someone can give me advice or a little help. As I am sincere about what I’m talking about, I am congruent and everything will flow on from there. Now, from there I have communicated that I love fragrance (and that’s because I do). Then I’m going to ask her if she enjoys wearing them as well. From there I can direct the conversation. YOU CAN’T LOSE FROM THERE!!

*Asking what things I can get my female friends it communicates a lot of good things. You can figure it out there’s many. Since I am sincere about this I am actually looking for real advice because I am actually looking for something to get for a female friend of mine. See?? How can you go wrong from there?? How is that AFC behaviour?? If you get shut down would you give a flying ****? Hell no!! You would just move on next and ask another girl. Now if you are a psychopath and have no female friend or even thinking about getting them something then things would be a lot harder.

If you can’t think on the spot, you are boring and unoriginal then I am sure than you will find this harder.

I understand you guys explaining how these could be training wheels then I don’t see how they won’t help a newbie. I could be right or I could be wrong. Bottom line is, I got out there and experimented. The master senior don juan who has straight up no bullsh*t opener might work wonders for him if it is his natural style but it might be a little harder for others. It might not feel right for others who prefer a more creative opener. If you can understand my point about openers then the criticism should disappear from then on. There is a HUGE difference between genuine openers and canned/ contrived openers. I can’t see why some of you see my view as “gimmicky”.

You know what really bugs me??? People who are quick to criticize others on this board. I value each and everyone’s input but some here are quick to say uncalled things. Yes your basic straight up opener will work but I clearly remember asking for creative ones. Of course both types work but I am looking for the latter kind!!! Read properly. Some people enjoy canned/contrived lines. They maybe not my thing but if it works for them then full credit goes to them. If someone says “c*ck hard, let’s go” and it works then I would still clap my hands still. I didn’t know sosauve.net employed DJ Nazis here.

The thing is most of us are trying to get from A to B. Different strokes for different folks. For the people who started to criticize, I think you are too worried about the outcome way too much. Here’s my metaphor. Some of us like to go sailing to point B. This thread is about sharing sailing experiences and what boats they have and what the weather is like. Then someone came along and said, “Hey you can catch a plane to point B, don’t be a stupid fool and go sailing.” So I say, “hey fool we are talking about sailing, hop on your plane and get lost. I can take a plane if I want to ok?” At the end of the day we ALL get to arrive at point B. Maybe I like sailing more and would want to check out “things” on the way to getting to point B. Simple as that.

Royal Elite you are a person who doesn’t f*ck around…Straight to the point. Bottom line is, you are 100% congruent with what you are saying. I truly believe they work wonders for you. Some of us though, are not like you and maybe need to be a little playful or a bit more creative to get things flowing and comfortable with the girl. Some of us would want to see if certain people like this or that and would want to get some conversation and rapport first before getting the number.

Can people out here just post WHAT HAS WORKED for them rather than WHAT SHOULD WORK? I don’t care what it is. I’m only interested in hearing other people’s creativity and their playful attitude. Give examples, real life experience please.

 

[pimpfromdayone]

Haha, you think some of the people on this thread are bad? You should take a look in the threads where people discuss money..... it's horrible.
Ok, my real life examples off the top of my head, all of which resulted in convos at least:
- started talking to her simply about where she was from, teased
about accent
- at walmart with a friend, looking in lingerie section, two hot girls
walk by, I say, "Hey, can you help us for a minute? We are trying
to pick out a thong for his gf."
- different questions one might ask a girl about herself
- this one I was just messing around and experimenting: walked
up to a group of girls, and said, "Excuse me, can one of you go
get my car for me? My feet are really tired, I'd really appreciate
it." Bingo, access to 5+ girls. Approached multiple groups with
same over-the-top statement, reaction was the same surprised
look, some initial bit-chiness, broken quickly by my dead-serious
facial expression and much laughter followed.
- When I see a girl sitting by herself, I sit next to her, and convo
flows real naturally after I open with something relevent to the
situation.
- Um.... "hey."
I haven't used this one but I am going to start keeping it even simpler by saying "hey, what's your name?" and then going from there, because in reality, the girl doesn't care that much about what you say; she is too overwhelmed (overjoyed) with the fact that you even started talking to her. A woman isn't exactly very good at convo either.... most couldn't start a convo or keep one going if they had to, so don't act like you have to be perfect with your own.

I already said it before, but I don't like the idea of being really awkward right from the start.... I just keep it casual. This works well also because you don't show too much obvious interest in the beginning. A neg. hit is essential for most hot girls, but starting with a neg. hit might not be a good idea. Start into a normal convo for a few seconds at least and THEN do the neg. hit if you want. Just say something.

 

[penkitten]

hmmm
i thought "i need a female opinion on this " meant " i really like a different girl and want a friend to tell me how to impress her and since none are around could you tell me"

 

[BrotherAP]

Originally posted by penkitten
hmmm
i thought "i need a female opinion on this " meant " i really like a different girl and want a friend to tell me how to impress her and since none are around could you tell me"

Maybe that's why it works so well - she doesn't realize, initially, that what you are really saying is "You look like I would like to have sex with you, but if I actually told you that you'd probably slap me"

 

[penkitten]

Originally posted by BrotherAP
Maybe that's why it works so well - she doesn't realize, initially, that what you are really saying is "You look like I would like to have sex with you, but if I actually told you that you'd probably slap me"

no she doesnt realise that and she wont until she is almost thirty and then she realises she will think to herself "everytime anyone did that they wanted ... and wait... that would have been more useful for me to have known fifteen years ago and i could have had anything i ever wanted. "

 

[naoi deag se deag]

Ever see two blind guys swordfight?

That's what this thread feels like.

Some random observations:

Guys who say opinion openers are tricks: Why do you think this? Whenever I use an opinion opener I'm genuinely interested in what the girl has to say. The fact that I read it on the Internet really isn't any different than reading something on a news or entertainment website and opening with that, i.e. "I just read a review of such-and-such movie..." It's not being ingenuine, it's being indirect. A lot of guys just don't have it together enough to be attractive to women based on their own observations, because their own observations frankly suck. I wouldn't stick around if a girl came up and said something like, "Excuse me, I don't mean to bother you, but..." because she would sound like a broke-ass dork. A lot of this involves congruency, and I think that's where a lot of guys get tripped up, and then a lot of guys look at that and say, "See, they're sh!te because these robots don't get anywhere with them." Remember, the best in our business came up with these and tested them far more than any of you guys have. I have respect for almost every single one of you, but these guys are tops and I'm gonna go with what they say until you emphatically and empirically prove them wrong.

I think everyone here who posts regularly, especially the guys who started from a more socially normal level, forget that this community was built by HUGE NERDS for MAJOR GEEKS. I think it was jlaix over at ASF who was talking about chatting up supermodels at a Hollywood party and feeling like he downloaded superpowers off the internet. I feel like that sometimes too, and I started below where most of you guys did. When I think back to where I was as a first year in high school or even college, it simply blows my mind how much better I am now. I owe a lot of this to learning how social dynamics operate, and where did I learn that? From reading, using and mastering openers, routines and encounter structures from other guys on the internet. So you should show some respect to the guys who are testing this stuff out rather than badmouthing them. Who knows, maybe one of you who eschews the indirect routine-based approach will write a post about how you lost a sarge or a GF to one of these guys with superpowers they downloaded from the internet

Hey guys, I can only stay up a few more minutes, but I need a male opinion on something: was that too long?