Help stop me from making the wrong (?) decision - long read

[muscleman]

I'm glad I've had the opportunity to help my fellow Man get past relationship woes, but no one is perfect. I myself am on the brink of a decision and I don't want to make the wrong choice (for me). As I know of no other Men with similar experiences or proper outlook, I turn to you for help on this day. Perhaps writing this out will bring some clarity as well.

Exactly a month ago I met girl #44 (I have since slept with 2 other girls) and we started seeing each other. As some of you may remember from my ways to handle 'the talk' thread, she has brought up exclusivity many times. She even went ghost on me after the first couple rounds because she wanted to date date, but I brought her back around. I feel she's getting very close to a point where I may lose her if I don't commit more. Normally this wouldn't be an issue, but in the 3 or so years that I've been single no one has been as compatible with me on a number of levels. I am emotionally attached. I don't want to make this sound like oneitis, it's not, just that it's more than casual sex for me and the same for her now.

And this is where the problem lies. We want 2 completely different things. I have up until now tiptoed around the subject, saying that I 'have no goal' with girls because I want to see how things go and feelings develop. She, on the other hand, has been very clear on what she wants - continuing on building a family (she has 1 kid), popping out 2 more kids, and settling down. It may help if I list the pros and cons of this girl in as general a way as possible to keep the list short.


Pros
- Hottest girl I've fvcked to date, hotter than my 1.5 year LTR stripper gf. You know how sometimes you see a girl and you want nothing more than to impregnate her despite your logical brain working overtime to stop you? That's how she is to me.
- Marathon sex, the highest sexual compatibility I've ever had with a girl
- Very affectionate
- Defers to me without question and hangs on me whenever we go out
- Is bisexual
- Very easy to get along with, low maintenance


Cons
- Has a small child from a previous marriage. The father has the kid about half the week. I never see the kid nor do I want to.
- Is currently 'baby crazy' - wants 2 more kids as she's about to turn 30.
- Although she has aged very well (and will continue to, I've seen her mother and she's hot), well, she's about to be 30. Could pass for 23 easy.
- Has opened up to me about her past and it's pretty rough/unstable. Although I am a believer in personality change and letting go of the past, I also believe that completely moving beyond certain points will take tremendous effort and is highly improbable, if not impossible.
- Corollary to the above, she is highly attention/validation seeking as a result of her previous abusive relationships. I really don't like the term 'damaged goods' but I feel this could turn into a handful down the road.
- Very experienced which is both good and bad in my eyes, all things considered it's probably more bad than good, but not necessarily.


Last night she brought it up again. She mentioned how 'for not wanting a girlfriend you sure do spend a lot of time here' and she's right. We've been hanging out a good 3x/week since we met. If you count 24 hours periods, we've banged almost half the days of the month. It's hard to keep our hands off each other and this is what's making it difficult. She also told me how she knows what she wants and she doesn't want to get emotionally attached (I know she is) if it's not going to 'work out' and that 'we spend so much time together and there are other guys who want to move forward'. Moving forward in this case being continuing building a family. I didn't give her any straight answers, but I can only deflect this for so long, especially since I'm into her as well.

I'm trying to play out both scenarios/timelines in my head.

Scenario #1 - Accept Exclusivity

- Everything continues to go great, she becomes even more affectionate, we both become more attached.
- Have an opportunity for a threesome (low priority)
- I have to start spending time with the kid when she has him. It's inevitable that I'll play a secondary father role because we're now in a relationship and 'moving forward'.
- No more sex with other girls. This is not THAT bad considering our physical compatibility and her appetite.
- I will eventually, most likely in the next 2 years, end up giving her 1-2 kids as that's what she wants. This will result in me being a dad to 1-2, as well as a secondary dad to another one. Problems with the ex are sure to ensue.
- Most doors in life close for me. I am not able to enjoy the supposed 'lion' 30's in a man's life of highest productivity and self development.
- She will push for marriage. I may be able to deflect it, but either way that doesn't change the rest of the 'burden'.
- There's always a chance that it all falls apart and the longer I spend in it, the more time I regret having wasted had I remained unattached. And of course I now have a lifelong responsibility for 1-2 others.
- There is the possibility of accepting exclusivity with her and not doing any of the above, but I feel all that will do is be a waste of time that will result in an emotionally messy breakup.

Scenario #2 - Deny/Deflect Exclusivity

- Have an opportunity for a threesome (low priority)
- Based on what she told me about her past, I think it would only be so long before she's itching for validation. Whether or not she gets it through actual sex or platonic attention is debatable.
- Possibly lose her. Maybe not right away, but as she finds a more 'beta provider' compatible guy, I will be phased out.
- I continue on with my life goals, with my baseline standards now even higher because of my experience with her.
- I leave her with good memories for both of us, which keeps the door open for possibilities in the future (she did end up marrying an ex after all, pretty fvcked up story, but she basically did it as validation and for the wrong reasons). I've had girls come back to me, albeit for a short time, for re-validation as their relationship didn't pan out. I don't hold my breath for it, but she has definitely 'gone back' to guys, so as long as I'm the most alpha she's ever been with or will be with, I could get her if I really wanted.
- I avoid some major headaches and limitations - children of my own before I'm ready, having to half-raise a child that's not mine, skeletons in the closet which may never fully go away (although this is debatable).
- I leave her with '5 minutes of alpha', being that guy that she couldn't lock down with whom she had a steamy but short lived relationship and one she can't duplicate with her life partner.


* Here's an interesting tidbit: in our conversations about previous relationships, she mentioned how she dated some guys just because they were hot, even though they weren't long term for her and how much sh!t she put up with from them just because they were hot. She told me about one guy who had 'gray hair but was really hot, stopped seeing him cause was a dbag' so I guess age isn't that big a deal for us after all if you play it right.

Now, if I was 45 and she 25, and without a kid, I would be in like sin. I would totally knock her up and be with her. We'd make a really hot baby. But sadly this is not the case.

I think the answer is fairly clear reading this, but nonetheless I want to hear what you all (hopefully experienced) have to say, as my judgement is currently clouded by emotion. I'd like to gain insight from this beyond the typical red flag talk. Maybe some info on what 30's single life really brings a man can put my head on straight, I don't know.

@RT and other vets, I would appreciate if you could chime in this once.

 

[Desdinova]

My biggest question for you is: What do YOU want?

You've focused on all the 5hit that she wants: more commitment, marriage, kids, etc. What do YOU want? Do you want marriage? Do you want kids?

There's two people in this scenario. You don't have to cater to everything she wants. If you don't ever want kids, go get a vasectomy. If you don't want marriage, tell her you don't want to sign any papers.

What do YOU want?

 

[Bible_Belt]

I know the term BPD gets thrown around too much, but she reminds me a lot of an ex of mine who is state-certified BPD. Part of the disorder is being hot, oversexed, and super-duper into you (right now). That's why you like her so much. Another part of the disorder is a drive to re-experience childhood abandonment, so they always have multiple kids by multiple men. They gravitate to abusive relationships, and if you don't treat them that way, they do their best to either bring it out of you or sabotage the relationship. They think of people as all either 100% good or 100% bad. Notice you are on one side of the line and all her exes are on the other, at least right now.

Here's the magic question - how does she feel about daddy? Did he die or run away? If so, and she has any sort of substance abuse issues, even if it's just chain-smoking, then you're touching all the bases of BPD.

 

[muscleman]

My biggest question for you is: What do YOU want?

You've focused on all the 5hit that she wants: more commitment, marriage, kids, etc. What do YOU want? Do you want marriage? Do you want kids?

There's two people in this scenario. You don't have to cater to everything she wants. If you don't ever want kids, go get a vasectomy. If you don't want marriage, tell her you don't want to sign any papers.

What do YOU want?

Right now, I don't want marriage or kids. Eventually I do want kids. Ideally I'd have them around 40-45 with a girl in her 20s. I'd probably do it outside of marriage as well unless there was a compelling reason to get married (or if at that point I am experienced enough that I can screen properly to maximize gains and minimize the chance of the downsides).

With her, I want to keep seeing her non-exclusively, though she is my #1 girl. Ideally we'd get other girls involved (low priority) and if other girls came as ONS for variety I wouldn't mind, but even that wouldn't be a necessity as my balls are drained well enough.

I don't want exclusivity with her right now, but may consider it down the line.

The problem is when I come across a really hot girl who makes me care less about those things. Must be a biological thing. It's like 'well yea I'd love to wait til 40 and accomplish everything I want til then', but what if I don't make it that far? What if circumstances change? What if ___? I then end up missing out on opportunities now.

 

[muscleman]

I know the term BPD gets thrown around too much, but she reminds me a lot of an ex of mine who is state-certified BPD. Part of the disorder is being hot, oversexed, and super-duper into you (right now). That's why you like her so much. Another part of the disorder is a drive to re-experience childhood abandonment, so they always have multiple kids by multiple men. They gravitate to abusive relationships, and if you don't treat them that way, they do their best to either bring it out of you or sabotage the relationship. They think of people as all either 100% good or 100% bad. Notice you are on one side of the line and all her exes are on the other, at least right now.

Here's the magic question - how does she feel about daddy? Did he die or run away? If so, and she has any sort of substance abuse issues, even if it's just chain-smoking, then you're touching all the bases of BPD.

I don't like throwing our BPD either as it gets mislabeled a lot, but here's some food for thought:

- history of substance abuse (coke) in her early 20s, big party girl. One time when we went out drinking she got way too drunk, was puking, etc. Later told me 'I need someone to cut me off or I'll just keep going'.
- I don't know of daddy issues, she hasn't talked much about it. Her parents are still together. This is why I question it. What I do know about her parents though is that her father was very religious in the church and she felt looked down upon even if she did something very minor like kissing a boy and because she was attractive, she felt people thought she was a slvt, so she did a 180 and started 'fvcking anything with tattoos'.
- definitely a string of abusive relationships (ex husband was a drunk who beat her, had one guy she was seeing beat her and she tried to commit suicide, etc).
- diagnosed with clinical depression the past year.
- has told me that I'm very affectionate/sweet and that she's not used to it.
- she also mentioned that her ex husband cheated on her and that she forgave him, so she's basically ok with a free pass. I'm not one to cheat (never have) but if that's how to handle a BPD, perhaps I should reconsider.

I can see how I'm on the 'other side of the line' right now. This is weird. I've been with girls who have had some of these issues and I've heard about it, but haven't had the 'pleasure' of dealing with it firsthand.

If she is in fact BPD, why would she gravitate/stick through abusive relationships (even though she did end up leaving all of them)? Why the drive to have kids by multiple men? And it did cross my mind that if she gravitates towards that, I'd have to treat her like sh!t at some point if I wanted to keep her around ... except I've never done that to girls, it's just not me. This just doesn't make sense.

 

[SteR]

Just from reading what you've written it appears that your judgement is skewed a little by infatuation. Without meaning any offense, it seems like there are a lot of red flags from looking at the girl on paper.

I'd just advise to tread carefully and not get too heavily invested but I'm sure you've figured that out already..

 

[Bible_Belt]

Maybe she felt abandoned by dad in favor of the church. I'm guessing she was probably sexually abused in some way. Maybe it was a church figure and dad covered it up to save face. The girl I knew was raped at 12 by her mom's boyfriend; when mom found out, she pretended it didn't happen so as to not mess up her relationship with the guy.

The human mind deals with trauma by trying to re-live it. Maybe it's a survival mechanism of some sort. I know it doesn't make logical sense, but it's all subconscious. BPDs have a traumatic abandonment in their past, and they are destined to always be attempting to re-live it. In order to make it more traumatic when you break up in the future, she has to be crazy mad in love with you right now. Those kids typically get dumped on their respective fathers, creating more abandonment issues, and propagating the sickness that is BPD.

 

[Scaramouche]

Dear MuscleMan,
She seems to have a Misere Hand Emotionally,with most of the usual Red Flags,others will come to light if you are silly enough to move in...I would simply Play along with the Exclusivity...Discretely keeping a few Plates slowly Spinning,and Promote her to love interest No1.....Make Hay while the Sun shines Muscles,Bottom line is that at this age,neither of you will change!

 

[muscleman]

Maybe she felt abandoned by dad in favor of the church. I'm guessing she was probably sexually abused in some way. Maybe it was a church figure and dad covered it up to save face. The girl I knew was raped at 12 by her mom's boyfriend; when mom found out, she pretended it didn't happen so as to not mess up her relationship with the guy.

The human mind deals with trauma by trying to re-live it. Maybe it's a survival mechanism of some sort. I know it doesn't make logical sense, but it's all subconscious. BPDs have a traumatic abandonment in their past, and they are destined to always be attempting to re-live it. In order to make it more traumatic when you break up in the future, she has to be crazy mad in love with you right now. Those kids typically get dumped on their respective fathers, creating more abandonment issues, and propagating the sickness that is BPD.

So how do you suggest I move forward with this? Again I have little (no?) experience with BPD if that is in fact her. It may be a good skin-thickening experience. Should I just play along with exclusivity? Then I guess if she finds out, worst that can happen is we break up.

 

[evan12]

I think she is giving you a good feeling and playing the role of the good girl, but her actions seem to be action of "not a good girl" (I dont want to use any bad word since you are serious with her )
so be careful , when women want a man they give him all the right signals to make him feel happy

 

[Three]

Muscleman, I really feel for you. I know what they say about BPD and I won't go there, but I do know about it firsthand. All I can say is that regardless of any disorder, there are many, MANY red flags here. You're an experienced guy, I know, but she WILL break your heart.

The step kid thing is so much fvcking harder than people think. I've been through it twice and you'll be on an emotional rollercoaster trying to deal with all of it. And she's older than you are, too. After a couple years of busy, busy having kids, she'll change. You'll settle in and get used to life with her and then all of a sudden she'll be someone you don't even know anymore. She'll be fvcking your neighbor, her boss, or some random stranger because her friends told her you don't give her enough attention or treat her like a princess.

Wait. All this is part of MY story. But, take it as a cautionary tale. This sh!t happens and all the signs are there. Be careful and start putting some distance between the two of you to get some perspective.

 

[Bible_Belt]

So how do you suggest I move forward with this?

A lot of times on here I will take the woman's side over the man's. The only term more overused on here than BPD is 'next.' Most of the time, I think most guys should love, lose, and learn; that's how you get better.

However, in this case, the biggest red flag to me is her trapping you with a kid that you don't want. It's not fair to the kid, and if the baby is a girl, she runs a very high risk of developing the same personality disorder, because mom is almost certain to abandon her in some way. Twenty-five years from now, there will be a guy posting on sosuave about how your daughter is wrecking his life.

You have at least another ten or twenty years in which to get a young 20something. Your biological clock ticks for a lot longer than hers; there's no rush.

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

My two cents is that you'd be better off not committing. Stay with her as long as possible, but if she gives you an ultimatum, then it's exit, stage left.

Pros
- Hottest girl I've fvcked to date, hotter than my 1.5 year LTR stripper gf. You know how sometimes you see a girl and you want nothing more than to impregnate her despite your logical brain working overtime to stop you? That's how she is to me.
- Marathon sex, the highest sexual compatibility I've ever had with a girl
- Very affectionate
- Defers to me without question and hangs on me whenever we go out
- Is bisexual
- Very easy to get along with, low maintenance

All of these positives will vanish faster than dry ice in an active volcano after you commit. She'll get less hot, the sex will diminish, she'll lose her bisexual interest, and she'll start to get more demanding.

This is pretty much what happens to ANY woman after they get into a long term, committed relationship, especially if children are her number one priority for getting into it. Regardless of any previous problems she may or may not have.


If any MEN choose to get involved in a long term, committed relationship, it had better be for reasons OTHER than good sex.

Does she support you in your long term goals?

Will she help you do build wealth over time?

Do you have compatible ideas about life in general?

She she have a good head on her shoulders?

Is she easily swayed by her friends?

Will you look back on your relationship with her, ten years later, after MOST of the sex has gone, and still think getting married was a good decision?

Will you have plenty of evidence to support that belief?

It's hard to think rationally and logically about your future when you're getting the best sex of your life. I suppose that's why there's so many frikking people on this goddamn planet.

If you had a best friend that was in your EXACT position, what would you advise him to do?

 

[the_stig]

Man, you're caught up on her looks and the sex which is clouding your judgement.

I'm just getting myself out of the exact same predicament you're about to get into, and my advice is, don't go there. Unless, that is, you're looking for a ready made family, to be tied down with several kids when you're only 30, with a gal who sounds like an emotional train wreck having serious issues.

I caught feelings for a single mom, she was not marriage material but it was too fun to give up... so I strung it along as far as I could. She pushed hard and fast for commitment, did the usual "My kid has a dad and I'm not looking for any other guy to be a part of his life" song and dance, but you know what? It's ALL bullspit. Every single mom is looking for a father figure/role model/dad for their kid. In my case, it went from "He has a dad" to "I want you to start spending time with him" to "You HAVE to have a relationship with him" to "He needs a father figure" to "If it came down to it, sure I'd expect you to help out, buy him a pair of shoes or take him to football" to "I'd love to sign the dad's parental rights away and just have someone adopt him as their own".

Now, I was smart enough to only meet the kid in passing (and boy did it cause turmoil), but the above is the perfect example of what a single mom is going to push for. Every-single-one. Like you, she also sucked me in hard with lots of sex, anything and everything to please me, living up to the image of what the perfect girlfriend should be. I'll tell you what though.. once they have their claws sunk in, that act vanishes pretty quick. I'm not some chump that caves either.

In summary: Just don't. What are you going to do? Raise another mans child just because she's attractive and fun? Sex gets boring with even the hottest of chicks once you do it enough, and the honeymoon phase doesn't last forever.

 

[flashpoint]

glad i v had no experience of this kind so far. all i know for sure is chicks try to control you non-stop and sh!ttests never end. and i guess it is common knowledge that once you hand her your balls she will cut them to small pieces. so maybe ask yourself: how can i take control of this situation again. cos right now it seems she is starting to calling the shots here.

and desdinova already has asked you the right question: what do you want. you say: no marriage and no kids before 40. so ...

btw. most of your pros have to do with sex. you also said "It's hard to keep our hands off each other and this is what's making it difficult." - dont let your balls make that decision for you, they are greedy and not longterm thinking.

I'd tell her that she is about to ruin a good thing here by being pushy. if anything in that direction should happen then it has to be by small steps. very small steps. definitely no commitment to be exclusive if that is the same as the decision to have new babies right away and such. and i'd tell her this: in the past she has made bad decisions, decisions that werent good for her and you not going to help her making another one. if this is supposed to work out then you guys need to take things slowly and see where it goes. ... or something along those lines.

 

[SecondHalf]

Muscle,

She doesn't seem to meet your high level picture of your distant future (40 year old breeding a 20 something year old). That in itself sounds like a mandatory requirement.

The question you must honestly ask yourself is ... can you play for a while without getting hooked?

Me ... I'd likely fail, so I'd avoid the whole mess, but alas, I've done this sort of thing before and know my vulnerabilities.

My advice would be honest with yourself, and be practical.

SH

 

[Desdinova]

Right now, I don't want marriage or kids. Eventually I do want kids.

She, on the other hand, has been very clear on what she wants - continuing on building a family (she has 1 kid), popping out 2 more kids, and settling down.

And there you go. Let her know this.

I'm also going to throw something completely wild out there. There are MANY childless women out there who have stayed with a guy and have given up on having kids to keep him around. Since she's already had one kid, the possibility of this happening in your situation is entirely possible.

You can try putting your money on that and keeping her around, or ditch her so she can do what she says. But remember, what a woman says she wants and what she REALLY wants are two completely different things.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

MUSCLE, you probably wont like what I'm about to type because you're over-invested in this woman, but you need to disconnect, now.

You're in a what's called the 'loss leader' stage of a relationship with a single mother. Go have a look at my graph here at Navigating the SMP. You are both at the 'comparative SMV' point in your lives. Your SMV is rising, while hers is declining – on some level of consciousness she knows this.

Don't be flattered by her wanting to become exclusive with you. As she's already telegraphed to you,

'we spend so much time together and there are other guys who want to move forward'.

Translation: "No reasonable offers will be refused."

It's all about her need for long term provisioning, NOT about how she feels about you. This is exactly the attitude I would expect from a woman who's realized the downturn in her capacity to sexually compete with younger, hotter women. Remember, it's not that you don't think she's the best piece of ass you ever had, it's her own realization that she will eventually hit the Wall.

Between the ages of 27-30 women begin to acknowledge their waning sexual agency in comparison to the next crop of hot rookies (girls in their sexual peak, 22-24). The rationalization women will have at this time will be one of looking for the 'right fit' guy and how it took her all those partying years to develop a better discernment for who that guy is. In actuality they need to effect a 'bait & switch' methodology with the best provider they can ensnare. This is particularly pronounced for single mothers looking to consolidate on a provisional monogamy burdened with the disadvantage of having already bred with another man.

You are in the 'bait' stage right now. Of course she'll be down for marathon sex, wild sex, 3-ways, etc. she can't afford not to offer this to her "any guy'. This is the advertisement. Of course she will defer to your frame, this is the advertisement. This is NOT what you will get after the purchase.

You're in a real tough position now because you either stopped spinning plates, or because your other plates don't look as good, or wont perform as well. You're reverting to a scarcity mentality and this single-mommy wants you to.

Imagine how frustrated you'll be when all of that sexual urgency she has to have marathon sex is removed for her. You'll know what's she's been capable of; hot passionate, dirty, 3-way potential sex, but you'll agonize over why she wont do it with the same frequency or vigor once you've signed her contract.

Then, what you'll be left with will be all of the issues you detailed in your Cons list. You will be left with all of the liabilities that come from your Cons list with a greatly reduced potential of reward, and a steadily declining motivation to deliver those rewards.

She's 30, so her fertility window is rapidly closing. If you commit to exclusivity with her now, she will push for marriage and children inside a year. Her hope is that you will remain ignorant of your increasing SMV just long enough to consolidate on that plan.

MUSCLE, the most important thing to keep in mind is that YOU are not special to her. You will fill the role she envisions for herself, but there are any number of other guys who would step into that generic role for her. She's proudly admitted as much already. Why would you (or any guy) want to step into that generic role?

Considering how ones-sided a proposition commitment and marriage are for men, you cannot afford to enter into that arrangement with a woman unless you own her ƒucking soul that she gladly and willingly gives you. You have to mean EVERYTHING to her, not just be the first guy in a line of many who'd participate in her long term breeding plan.

Save yourself MUSCLE, you're too cool of a guy to allow this to happen to you. There are thousands of hot women available to you, and most without the neurotic baggage this one has. And there will be more in the future as your SMV ascends into your 30s. Unlike women, men have the option to delay commitment and marriage into their 30's and still capitalize on their increased SMV.

NEXT this one. Rip the bandaid off fast and eject.

 

[5string]

I don't like throwing our BPD either as it gets mislabeled a lot, but here's some food for thought:

- history of substance abuse (coke) in her early 20s, big party girl. One time when we went out drinking she got way too drunk, was puking, etc. Later told me 'I need someone to cut me off or I'll just keep going'.
- I don't know of daddy issues, she hasn't talked much about it. Her parents are still together. This is why I question it. What I do know about her parents though is that her father was very religious in the church and she felt looked down upon even if she did something very minor like kissing a boy and because she was attractive, she felt people thought she was a slvt, so she did a 180 and started 'fvcking anything with tattoos'.
- definitely a string of abusive relationships (ex husband was a drunk who beat her, had one guy she was seeing beat her and she tried to commit suicide, etc).
- diagnosed with clinical depression the past year.
- has told me that I'm very affectionate/sweet and that she's not used to it.
- she also mentioned that her ex husband cheated on her and that she forgave him, so she's basically ok with a free pass. I'm not one to cheat (never have) but if that's how to handle a BPD, perhaps I should reconsider.

I can see how I'm on the 'other side of the line' right now. This is weird. I've been with girls who have had some of these issues and I've heard about it, but haven't had the 'pleasure' of dealing with it firsthand.

If she is in fact BPD, why would she gravitate/stick through abusive relationships (even though she did end up leaving all of them)? Why the drive to have kids by multiple men? And it did cross my mind that if she gravitates towards that, I'd have to treat her like sh!t at some point if I wanted to keep her around ... except I've never done that to girls, it's just not me. This just doesn't make sense.

I think you have answered your own question with this post. What sticks out to me is that she's a single mommy. I made that mistake and it cost me dearly.

I hope you don't make the same mistake I did. So many red flags here you'd think it was China.

Good luck.

 

[Bible_Belt]

If she does have BPD, keep in mind that there is no 'happily ever after' in her future, with you or with anybody else. Let her marry some other chump. Then she'll be on facebook gushing about how AWESOME and PERFECT he is, making obvious innuendos about their AMAZING sex. But later, sometimes after only a few months, when he inevitably crosses that good-to-bad line, she will become perfectly ok with cheating on him...with you, if you're up for it. Just like the huband/father role now is a generic position, as Rollo said, so is the sex role when she gets mad at hubby. At least you wouldn't be the chump who traded a few months of good pvssy for a lifetime of raising her kids.