Help me understand this girl's BS

[BPH]

Alright, so it seems the general consensus is that I'm her backup because she doesn't see me as boyfriend material the same way she sees this other guy. I would assume my living situation is probably the most significant factor - I wouldn't think it has anything to do with optics, since she only ever really posted about her work taking care of kids, or out with her other au pair friends.

Anyway, I'm kinda confused by the suggestion that a couple of you echo; to pre-flake on next weekend's tentative plan.

@BeExcellent @plumber @BillyPilgrim what's the point of this? I'd wager that if even answers that she would've forgotten about the drunken plan we made long before the weekend. I was planning to either call her Friday to see if she's still free (and more than likely hear another excuse), or just delete her number and forget about it.

 

[CornbreadFed]

@BPH I know may we have our differences, but I know you are experienced enough to see through this BS. DJs don't play second fiddle to women, we make them play second fiddle to us. You are not going to win this by playing the Hope Strategy.

 

[The Duke]

You aren't her #1. When women are throwing out confusion game it's designed to keep you in the wings. Tell her thanks for the BJ's. Next.

I'd save her number, when she is out of dudes and horny she will hit you up. Make sure the logistics are right for sex next time but don't tell her. Wh0res don't like to see their reflections.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

That's influencer level. She has very good options from her Instagram DMs. She might be able to get flown out by top guys at that level.

She might be able to get someone at your looks level + 150,000+ annual salary or $500,000+ net worth.



Convenience could be a factor. West Chester isn't that close to the Central Philadelphia neighborhoods that are most singles dense.

In West Chester itself, it could be an older, divorced rich guy.

The biggest issue OP will have is that although he may be able to get and even date these women based on his looks, none of them will take him seriously in his current situation.

Essenially they will view him as a man child that still lives with his parents.

And no grown woman wants to end up with a man child in a long term relationship.

 

[Clockwerk50]

@BPH I know may we have our differences, but I know you are experienced enough to see through this BS. DJs don't play second fiddle to women, we make them play second fiddle to us. You are not going to win this by playing the Hope Strategy.

That makes me teary eyed. Squashing the beef

 

[Modern Man Advice]

This has already been pointed out but helps to reinforce:

1) You are not on the top of her list. She clearly likes you, but not enough to give you sex and prioritize you. She isn't opposed to sex, given that she demands "better logistics" and that she is already giving it to another guy.
2) She wants to keep you close enough to get her validation fix and have options when she wants to have fun, but not close enough to fully invest in you. She effectively wants you to become an orbiter.
3) Females' behavior is dictated and ruled by emotions, not logic. Trying to understand their logic is a maze you'll never get out of, and therefore a waste of your time and mental capacity. There is no right and wrong about how the mind of a certain gender (female vs male) is wired, so I am not saying this in a negative light. It is neither good nor bad. It is simply a reality most men don't seem to accept.

Modern Man Advice

 

[BeExcellent]

Alright, so it seems the general consensus is that I'm her backup because she doesn't see me as boyfriend material the same way she sees this other guy. I would assume my living situation is probably the most significant factor - I wouldn't think it has anything to do with optics, since she only ever really posted about her work taking care of kids, or out with her other au pair friends.

Anyway, I'm kinda confused by the suggestion that a couple of you echo; to pre-flake on next weekend's tentative plan.

@BeExcellent @plumber @BillyPilgrim what's the point of this? I'd wager that if even answers that she would've forgotten about the drunken plan we made long before the weekend. I was planning to either call her Friday to see if she's still free (and more than likely hear another excuse), or just delete her number and forget about it.

Saves you time.

Time is your most valuable thing. When you flake on her you will get a better feel for her actual interest level/attraction level.

Some of your interactions have been opportunistic right? Y'all were at the same place at the same time randomly. That's a woman whose judgement is impaired to some degree by alcohol or other recreational substances and she has some level of raw in the moment attraction toward OP but she flakes for a better option when she is not fvcked up.

That means she's a thot risk by the way for the guy who is her boyfriend, because she's not into him enough to be off the market entirely and she's spinning her own plates. FYI.

Why on Earth would you insist on trying to be a guy who dates her? Double down on the raw attraction to find out how much pull you have. Quit trying to be her boyfriend. Be a bad boy. A bad boy isn't trying to ask her out & show up with flowers & chocolate my friend. A bad boy wants sex and plays that up. You got two BJs (so she likes your physical attributes enough to be sexual with you, but your logistics are no good for a raunchy loud sex situation). You have no privacy and she has to host (with privacy issues around the roommate). No bueno.

So you cancel or flake to see what she does. Does she leave you on read? Does she guilt trip you? Does she chase you?

@The Duke is correct. You cannot know where you fall compared to other options she has. So you blow her off because you are a bad boy and nobody's orbiter. If her options dry up and she sees you in a sexual light she will resurface.

Give her the gift of your absence. That is a very underrated seduction tool.

Then go meet other girls. This one is taking up too much mental real estate rent free in your head.

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

I would assume my living situation is probably the most significant factor

Maybe.

Or it just could be a polite way of saying she's not into you enough to want to make it happen.

 

[BillyPilgrim]

Alright, so it seems the general consensus is that I'm her backup because she doesn't see me as boyfriend material the same way she sees this other guy. I would assume my living situation is probably the most significant factor - I wouldn't think it has anything to do with optics, since she only ever really posted about her work taking care of kids, or out with her other au pair friends.

Anyway, I'm kinda confused by the suggestion that a couple of you echo; to pre-flake on next weekend's tentative plan.

@BeExcellent @plumber @BillyPilgrim what's the point of this? I'd wager that if even answers that she would've forgotten about the drunken plan we made long before the weekend. I was planning to either call her Friday to see if she's still free (and more than likely hear another excuse), or just delete her number and forget about it.

I was actually joking when I said ask her out to a nice dinner and flake. Reading over the OP again, I reiterate the impression that she wants to feel a little pursued and chased/valued. Since you have her address, maybe invite her out dancing and plan to pick her up so you can go back to her place more easily. But hit her up early in the week so you can spend the week vibing and building anticipation.

(edit - but if you do this, limit your kissing on the dance floor so as to leave her wanting more in private)

 

[BPH]

Maybe.

Or it just could be a polite way of saying she's not into you enough to want to make it happen.

When she was moving into her new place I mentioned at the time that I was also shopping around for a place in Philly. This was before my priorities changed and I used that money to fund the business I'm building now, rather than blow $1k/mo in a rush to move out. During that time she kept asking me if I'd found a place yet.

I didn't pay it much mind, but maybe that was more of an indicator than I gave credit - "Hey did you find your own place yet so I can come f*** you?"

Since you have her address, maybe invite her out dancing and plan to pick her up so you can go back to her place more easily. But hit her up early in the week so you can spend the week vibing and building anticipation.

I don't think the best way to proceed would be by giving her more attention. I do like the suggestion to see how she reacts to me flaking, if there even is one, so I think that's what I'll do.

I appreciate all the advice, and thanks to @BeExcellent for offering the female perspective, and to @Modern Man Advice who I haven't seen in forever to tie a bow on my original question about trying to understand this girl's logic in what she's doing - and that maybe there is none.

This girl hasn't been on my radar for a while, and likely won't be again for another while. I'll just keep recruiting and if she ends up becoming a plate, great, if not, well life goes on.

 

[plumber]

Alright, so it seems the general consensus is that I'm her backup because she doesn't see me as boyfriend material the same way she sees this other guy. I would assume my living situation is probably the most significant factor - I wouldn't think it has anything to do with optics, since she only ever really posted about her work taking care of kids, or out with her other au pair friends.

Anyway, I'm kinda confused by the suggestion that a couple of you echo; to pre-flake on next weekend's tentative plan.

@BeExcellent @plumber @BillyPilgrim what's the point of this? I'd wager that if even answers that she would've forgotten about the drunken plan we made long before the weekend. I was planning to either call her Friday to see if she's still free (and more than likely hear another excuse), or just delete her number and forget about it.

give boyfriend vibes or move on. she actually told you that is what she likes. she can't read your mind and can not be sure that your goal is pump and dump, but it probably looks like that to her. If she is good looking, she has plenty of experience about that.

boyfriend vibes includes talking about future improvements. essentially qualifying yourself.

or

if she is not on birth control, get together with her on ovulation day and party with her. that has high chance.

 

[SW15]

The biggest issue OP will have is that although he may be able to get and even date these women based on his looks, none of them will take him seriously in his current situation.

This is an issue. It is possible to get laid while being broke, possibly unemployed, and living with your parents.

In 2011, Roosh wrote an article about being broke, unemployed, and living in his dad's basement at age 31 (nearly 32).

Getting Laid While Unemployed And Living In Your Dad’s Basement

@BPH has been able to mimic Roosh game. He can get shorter term casual sex based on his looks and emotionally centered personality when dealing with female crap tests.

they will view him as a man child that still lives with his parents.

And no grown woman wants to end up with a man child in a long term relationship.

United States culture heavily penalizes men who live with their parents after ages 22-24 or so. Some women will let it slide for a short period after college graduation but that's about it. If a man is in the 2nd half of his 20s and isn't at least living with a roommate, then he's going to have some social consequences. The consequences are worse for men who don't make good Early Frame Announcements that they are solely seeking sex and not extended, monogamous relationships.

The man child stigma is real in the mating environment. Its effect can be minimized with short term sex but won't work with LTRs.

Moving out and getting a roommate will help.

At age 31, even renting an apartment with a roommate isn't well perceived in certain cities. In all cases, it beats living with parents.

 

[CornbreadFed]

This is an issue. It is possible to get laid while being broke, possibly unemployed, and living with your parents.

He’s not showing potential to these women otherwise they will just continue to see him as a cheap tool in their tool belt.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

This is an issue. It is possible to get laid while being broke, possibly unemployed, and living with your parents.

In 2011, Roosh wrote an article about being broke, unemployed, and living in his dad's basement at age 31 (nearly 32).

Getting Laid While Unemployed And Living In Your Dad’s Basement

@BPH has been able to mimic Roosh game. He can get shorter term casual sex based on his looks and emotionally centered personality when dealing with female crap tests.



United States culture heavily penalizes men who live with their parents after ages 22-24 or so. Some women will let it slide for a short period after college graduation but that's about it. If a man is in the 2nd half of his 20s and isn't at least living with a roommate, then he's going to have some social consequences. The consequences are worse for men who don't make good Early Frame Announcements that they are solely seeking sex and not extended, monogamous relationships.

The man child stigma is real in the mating environment. Its effect can be minimized with short term sex but won't work with LTRs.

Moving out and getting a roommate will help.

At age 31, even renting an apartment with a roommate isn't well perceived in certain cities. In all cases, it beats living with parents.

I wouldn't call it a stigma as much as it is him showing a lack of ambition to become an adult and grow up into a man.

His parents likely mean well but they have enabled this behavior in some fashion throughout his life.

Ever seen an adult bird living in its parents nest? When a bird becomes old enough to live on its own, the parents who have taken care of it for its entire life and fed it, kept it warm and safe kick it out of the nest and force it to go live on its own.

Humans end up crippling their children more than helping them by not doing the same.

OP is essentially starring in the real life version of the movie Failure To Launch.

If OP would put half the time into focusing on his career, finances and living situation as he does into going out and getting laid, he would have had his own place years ago.

Sadly OP appears to want act like Peter Pan and stay in Neverland where he doesn't have to grow up.

 

[SW15]

He’s not showing potential to these women otherwise they will just continue to see him as a cheap tool in their tool belt.

His looks can only carry him so far. Men in their 30s/40s are increasingly judged on money.

Getting a 2 bedroom apartment with a roommate at 31 is a good idea for attraction and seduction.

Having a roommate instead of living with parents at 31 will help with retention. He won't have to go out and find new women as much. That's more meaningful to guy who don't like constant hunting, like myself. However, there are some men who really enjoy constant hunting.

If OP would put half the time into focusing on his career, finances and living situation as he does into going out and getting laid, he would have had his own place years ago.

There are men who live with roommates or live alone who do not get laid as much as @BPH. @BPH 's lifetime notch count would be a dream to so many men.

Living alone or with 1-2 roommates is no guarantee of a good sex life or even getting a mid-tier girlfriend with consistent sex.

I think securing his own housing is the proper course here, but it's no guarantee of improving his sexual situation. It is more likely to help with retaining women than initially attracting them. I would rather tell a woman on a first date or in an initial approach that I have my own apartment or an apartment with a roommate. I see value in that for initial attraction.

 

[Solomon]

So you cancel or flake to see what she does. Does she leave you on read? Does she guilt trip you? Does she chase you?

@The Duke is correct. You cannot know where you fall compared to other options she has. So you blow her off because you are a bad boy and nobody's orbiter. If her options dry up and she sees you in a sexual light she will resurface.

Give her the gift of your absence. That is a very underrated seduction tool.

Then go meet other girls. This one is taking up too much mental real estate rent free in your head.

If more men would spin plates they would not be wasting time with women who are lukewarm
A woman who likes you or wants you will make it easy for you. It's like playing NBA2K but on rookie mode
WHen a woman starts playing games making it difficult etc. This is when threads like this happen. It's hard to spin plates for most men but it's worth it. The more options you have the more you tend to not worry about lukewarm women, the funny thing is women can tell when you have options some will just pick up on it instinctually if they like you they will compete if not, more confusion.

This has already been pointed out but helps to reinforce:

1) You are not on the top of her list. She clearly likes you, but not enough to give you sex and prioritize you. She isn't opposed to sex, given that she demands "better logistics" and that she is already giving it to another guy.
2) She wants to keep you close enough to get her validation fix and have options when she wants to have fun, but not close enough to fully invest in you. She effectively wants you to become an orbiter.
3) Females' behavior is dictated and ruled by emotions, not logic. Trying to understand their logic is a maze you'll never get out of, and therefore a waste of your time and mental capacity. There is no right and wrong about how the mind of a certain gender (female vs male) is wired, so I am not saying this in a negative light. It is neither good nor bad. It is simply a reality most men don't seem to accept.

Modern Man Advice

Great breakdown, OP should get his own place, once he saves up enough money, it will not just help him with women taking him more seriously but also he will have more options

 

[BackInTheGame78]

His looks can only carry him so far. Men in their 30s/40s are increasingly judged on money.

Getting a 2 bedroom apartment with a roommate at 31 is a good idea for attraction and seduction.

Having a roommate instead of living with parents at 31 will help with retention. He won't have to go out and find new women as much. That's more meaningful to guy who don't like constant hunting, like myself. However, there are some men who really enjoy constant hunting.



There are men who live with roommates or live alone who do not get laid as much as @BPH. @BPH 's lifetime notch count would be a dream to so many men.

Living alone or with 1-2 roommates is no guarantee of a good sex life or even getting a mid-tier girlfriend with consistent sex.

I think securing his own housing is the proper course here, but it's no guarantee of improving his sexual situation. It is more likely to help with retaining women than initially attracting them. I would rather tell a woman on a first date or in an initial approach that I have my own apartment or an apartment with a roommate. I see value in that for initial attraction.

See this is where you either transition to the life of a man or you stay a child.

This has NOTHING to do with getting laid. Zero.

If your goal in life is to simply measure every decision by how much it will help you get laid you sir are living the life of a child.

Men make decisions based on how it helps them grow as a person, as a man, in their career and financially and become independent of others.

I literally would rather be homeless than have to move back in with my Dad.

I'm not sure how this is even about getting laid in your eyes but that is the complete wrong way to look at this unless you are doing so in the eyes of someone who is also immature.

 

[CornbreadFed]

His looks can only carry him so far. Men in their 30s/40s are increasingly judged on money.

Getting a 2 bedroom apartment with a roommate at 31 is a good idea for attraction and seduction.

Having a roommate instead of living with parents at 31 will help with retention. He won't have to go out and find new women as much. That's more meaningful to guy who don't like constant hunting, like myself. However, there are some men who really enjoy constant hunting.

When I was unemployed/broke banging women, I was at least showing the potential for me to make a lot of money later. I made this phase look temporary to the girl.

 

[BPH]

Sadly OP appears to want act like Peter Pan and stay in Neverland where he doesn't have to grow up.

You're beating a dead horse, and needlessly so.

I am well aware of this problem and am working to fix it, I just don't talk about it.

But if you must know, you might've seen in this thread that I mentioned this girl was excited when I mentioned I was shopping around for a place in Philly - but changed my mind and instead invested that money into a business I'm building because I'm being mentored by somebody who is very successfully, and actively doing the thing he's instructing me how to do.

So, rather than appease some people online and slightly improve my sex life logistics I decided to NOT blow the $13k I had saved up, to the tune of $1k+/mo in rent, so I could create a life for myself that won't be immediately upended the moment I'm laid off - as was the case with my brother in NY last year, to the point where he may also have to move back home soon.

I'm also still working my full-time job while building this, and have a friend who plans to bring me on to help with marketing a tech startup for him as a remote part-time worker later this month, unless I enjoy the work and perform well, in which case he would bring me on full-time - so I still have a backup and my original job while I do this.

This is also why I say I need to do "recruiting" because I'm NOT going out every weekend spending my nights and money out at bars. I'd been mostly sleeping with the same women semi-regularly, and only recently has that fallen off, so I need to put in a little more effort.

I wasn't going to respond to this originally, but since you've brought up my work and living situation multiple times in this post as a shortcoming and pain point I thought I'd address it so we can all move on.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

You're beating a dead horse, and needlessly so.

I am well aware of this problem and am working to fix it, I just don't talk about it.

But if you must know, you might've seen in this thread that I mentioned this girl was excited when I mentioned I was shopping around for a place in Philly - but changed my mind and instead invested that money into a business I'm building because I'm being mentored by somebody who is very successfully, and actively doing the thing he's instructing me how to do.

So, rather than appease some people online and slightly improve my sex life logistics I decided to NOT blow the $13k I had saved up, to the tune of $1k+/mo in rent, so I could create a life for myself that won't be immediately upended the moment I'm laid off - as was the case with my brother in NY last year, to the point where he may also have to move back home soon.

I'm also still working my full-time job while building this, and have a friend who plans to bring me on to help with marketing a tech startup for him as a remote part-time worker later this month, unless I enjoy the work and perform well, in which case he would bring me on full-time - so I still have a backup and my original job while I do this.

This is also why I say I need to do "recruiting" because I'm NOT going out every weekend spending my nights and money out at bars. I'd been mostly sleeping with the same women semi-regularly, and only recently has that fallen off, so I need to put in a little more effort.

I wasn't going to respond to this originally, but since you've brought up my work and living situation multiple times in this post as a shortcoming and pain point I thought I'd address it so we can all move on.

If you want to ever take the island, first burn your boats. With total commitment comes the insights that create real victory.