He was the right guy all along

[Interceptor]

Once again, lack of information makes fools of us all. Why would he spend his life raising the kid when the kid is grown up and out of the house?

Who said she's a washed up divorcee? She's a nice person with a job who has class?

Jesus f'n Christ, if you're going to label all divorced people evil and washed up -- including single parents -- you have a lot of people to hate in this world, and I mean a LOT.

Get off sosuave and see the world. You are extremely narrow minded and prejudical. I hope to God you don't have a profession where you work with people.

Well said, West.


I'm not advocating being hostile to any members or anything like that. Honestly, I take everything with a grain of salt, and am really not that affected by other member's opinions. I like to make observations, not draw CONCLUSIONS. Life changes. Circumstances change.


You brought up a great topic. And what is happening is the conflict of philosophies.
We each have gained a lot of things from SS.
What we do with that ingformation is up to us. And no one has a right to dictate what we shoudl think, and how we should act.

VU made a lot of sense when he warned about "bottom lining" EVERYTHING.

There are always exceptions to the rule, and we make a mistake when we judge people. We condemn them. And we put them in these boxes.

Honestly, which one of you has been given those rights?

The same goes for situations like these.
While I think a lot of the doctrine we lerarn here at SS is beneficial, I do see that it may be easier for some to apply the same filters on everything, and maybe not look at things in a unique perspective for each situation.
I do tend to see a lot of negativity here. And I sometimes wonder at the overall life perception of some members here.
Now, don't think I'm judging anyone, but damn, sometimes I feel there are a lot of unresolved issues here.
I even sometimes wonder if there is an Anti Femenist undercurrent here, or is ANTI FEMENINE? I mean, sh*t, I think the line is sometimes blurred here.
I think it's important ot keep a healthy perspective on life, an women. And to try to accept that people out there are going to live their life the way they want to.
It's not enough to simply tolerate it.
You have to consciously ALLOW people to live their lives. And part of that is not judging them to the extreme.
I also, am not really pointing fingers. If you think that,you are incorrect.
It would be hypocritical of me, wouldn't it?

But learn to be happy, and "look at the bright side of things."
It helps. In more ways than one.

 

[WestCoaster]

I'll end it here: He's not a chump or an AFC. She's not a 'ho or a player. I thought it would make an interesting story. Not all single parents are evil, the world isn't black and white, not everything is perfect. They're both happy ... and from the likes of this board, infinitely happy than most of the people here.

 

[ketostix]

Well I never said he was a chump or an AFC or that she's a ho or a player, but you can't rewrite the history. She dumped him for someone else, married and had a kid and she is now back. I don't know have any information on the other guy, but I'm just making the point that women very commonly give their best years to the wrong guy and pass over the right guy then come back after their market value drops and then "settle" for the quality guy (see I'm actually assuming he's a quality guy). Maybe this wasn't the case in this example, but I've seen it so much it's ridiculous.

So anyone can spin this positively as they want, but if these two were to end up together from now on, it seems like what the guy wanted was to just stay with this girl since college and the only kid would be his. That would seem like the most positive scenario. So I can see the skepticism of danger, anenigma and others of similar scenarios.

 

[WestCoaster]

Like I said in the earlier post, I don't know how they broke up, I thought she may have instigated it, but I'm not sure. It was a guess.

You guys analyze too much ... you might be right on her market value dropping or whatever. I know he made the call years later to find out what she was doing; before then I saw him with different women. He didn't sit around hoping she would come back and if they didn't reconnect, I know this guy, he would've happily moved on. He lives life positively and with a smile on his face and doesn't dwell on things that did or didn't happen. Like I said, he's a huge guy, but he was third or fourth-string on the football team. He stuck it out for four years. I always wondered why he didn't hang it up -- football is a tough practice sport -- and he was always pumped to be on the team, cheered the loudest from the bench, loved his teammates and coaches.

Years later in his late 20's and early 30's he played in the alumni game against the current team of guys from 18-23 years old, enjoyed that, too. I saw him pounded pretty good after one alumni game, I came up to him afterwards and joked, "You sure you want to keep playing this thing against these young bucks?" He laughed, "Of course, but I might want to stock up on the Advil."

Long story made longer because I knew the over-analytical guys here would make him out to be an AFC because they struggle so much with their own lives.

 

[Blackmm]

(From Yahoo Answers)
The Kids and the Ex will ALWAYS come first in the relationship...and push the person back to third place. Lots of people don't like being in third place.

Example 1-Sat night kid is acting in a play. Guy wants to go out on a date. woman parent will go watch her kid in the play.

Example 2-Ex is coming over 'sometime Sunday' to drop of a note/money/whatever. Woman wants to go to the park and have a picnic. Guy has to stay home and wait.

 

[Aenigma]

Long story made longer because I knew the over-analytical guys here would make him out to be an AFC because they struggle so much with their own lives.

Or maybe we're making certain assumptions because of noticable trends and the average age group at this forum..... but please, by all means, psychoanalyze us and paint us all to be a bunch of losers; I'm sure your friends seems so much more successful by comparison after you do so. Afterall- who cares what a bunch of over-analytical guys with issues think about the matter; you already have your answer, what we failed to realize was that you weren't asking us any questions.

So, by all means get back on your pedastool, I mean potium, and continue telling us how wonderful and successful your friend is for living an average life. That is, afterall, what we're all here to learn how to do......

 

[joekerr31]

I'll end it here: He's not a chump or an AFC. She's not a 'ho or a player. I thought it would make an interesting story. Not all single parents are evil, the world isn't black and white, not everything is perfect. They're both happy ... and from the likes of this board, infinitely happy than most of the people here.

jeffery domer was happy eating people, doesn't mean he should have.

just joking! you're really worked up on this one WC.

at the risk of provoking you further... its great if your bud found the woman for him and settled down. and perhaps if we knew him and her personally many would change their views.

but i still stand by my view that your buddy undersold himself. he paid the same price for a used pinto that he could have used to buy a brand new bmw.

now if he likes used pintos then thats great for him and none of us have the right to say he made a mistake.

but 95% of the guys who did what your buddy did come to regret it down the road. not saying he will. he could very well be part of the 5%.

 

[WestCoaster]

Westcoaster,

I'm not calling him an afc. If that's what he wants (and he's not painting a bullseye where his arrow landed) then good for him. It's just not anything I would accept for my own standards.

In the end, we are just like women in the point that we can't control how we feel or who we are attracted to. If the man is truly happy, then hats off to him.

He is happy and they're not married or engaged, they're dating. He didn't undersell himself; he's probably 1 million times happier than the cybergeeks here who are constantly getting played by women. This guy has dated a lot, is dating a former college gf now, the dude likes his job, he played college football, he has few regrets. I was apprehensive about even telling this story because there are so many insecure, judgemental people here. I've learned I'll just tell similar stories to my friends and let the, "My gf just dumped my a$$, what do I do?" threads linger here.

 

[Fantasy]

He is happy and they're not married or engaged, they're dating. He didn't undersell himself; he's probably 1 million times happier than the cybergeeks here who are constantly getting played by women. This guy has dated a lot, is dating a former college gf now, the dude likes his job, he played college football, he has few regrets. I was apprehensive about even telling this story because there are so many insecure, judgemental people here. I've learned I'll just tell similar stories to my friends and let the, "My gf just dumped my a$$, what do I do?" threads linger here.

Westcoaster, I don't post here or visit this site very much but if I recall correctly, you seem to be one of the more reasonable guys around here. This begs the question of why are you wasting your time trying to defend your friend to everyone here?

First of all, from the bit of info you posted here, no one can judge your friend or his GF. They don't know eitehr one, right? The woman has gone through what many women and even men go through. They make some bad decisions in life, hook up with the wrong man, learn from their mistakes and become wiser from them and try to make better decisions with their increased wisdom gained from previous life experiences.

Many times women get with the wrong guy, have kids, and begin to realize the more important things that should be a part of a relationship now that kids are thrown into the equation.There is nothing wrong with "waking up" after having kids and considering them and their best interest when choosing a guy.

I am not saying all women learn from their mistakes but I would be damn if I wouldn't try to get back with a great woman just because I had a crazy run of choosing the wrong ones.


Many guys around her claim they will never ever ever date a woman with children. I do not mean for anyone to take this personal but most guys with this frame of mind are either very young and do not have enough relationship experience or they have trouble getting into relationships in the first place. If he has, he would realize that a great woman can be a great woman with kids who are not yours.

Of course if you are a man the is >30 and looking to hook up with women and date, the likelihood of them having children or already have been married in the past increases dramatically with age. In other words, many many women will have children by the time they are into their 30s. Now, you can count them out and all what they may have to offer in a relationship just because they have done natural things that humans being do every day then fine, leave them for the next man and you can dramatically cut your potential Saturday night dates and leave more for the man with a more open mind.

Westcoaster, realize that you are defending yourself to a many guys who may not have much relationship experience or experience with older women and let the negative replies roll off of your shoulder. Yourn friend did nothing wrong by giving this chic another chance, especially if she has significantly matured since the last time they dated.

 

[armadon]

I can see both sides of the argument but what gets me about most of the guys on here is that they promote being a man and doing the biological thing of spreading the seed then turn right around and bash women for doing the same freaking thing.

The thing about hooking up with women with kids is it's been done since the dawn of time. Shoot, men died all the freaking time back in the day from war to hunting to disease. Are you gonna call the guys that took over the father roll AFC or call them stupid? To me the grand scheme is to make sure the human race survives not just your seed. People want to forget that when they make their biological arguments.

Right now for me hooking up with a chick with kids doesn't fit my life style but who's to say down the road if a really awsome chick comes along I wouldn't get together with her just because she did her biological thing and had sex and in turn had a kid.

 

[joekerr31]

because single moms have already shown that they are prone to bad decisions.

i know we are living in a 'f*ck up a 100 times, its no big deal" culture, and that first marriages are actually now seen as 'starter' marriages, but i still believe that people who actually commit to be with someone for life, and who vow before god, and who then go and create children with that person - and who ultimate are then able to WALK AWAY from all of that - are people who have poor judgement.

and look, i don't hate these people or nothing. my parents are divorced. what im saying though is that a single man has BETTER options than to take on someone elses family and to run the risk of marrying a woman who has already shown that she either 1) has poor taste in men or 2) can't keep her marriage together.

are there exceptions? of course. there are always exceptions. who knows, maybe i'll meet my highschool sweet heart and she'll have kids and be divorced and lightening will strike.

but what im saying, as a general rule, is that i think its NOT in a man's best interest to be raising some other guys kids! now, once you get over 40, then who cares, since you probably aren't going to have kids anyway.

but in my mind the only reason to ever get married is if you are going to have kids. if she's already got them, then why would you marry her? just keep seeing her. why lock yourself in so that its a total mess for you to get out.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

WEST, I know you and I trust your judgement. If you say the guy's not a chump, I believe you, he's not a chump. If you say she's not an agenda woman, I'll trust you on this too. That said, why did you post about them here? What were you expecting? You know plenty of AFC trapped in dead-end marriages and LTRs. You counsel guys going back to college who let their wives do their decision making for them too. Why does this guy's situation stand out as significant?

Why can't women see a quality guy when they're right in front of their face?

I think this was the point of your OP, correct? Maybe the more purtinent question is, what's changed that makes her see him as such now rather than then? Your friend is only acting like most men would when presented with a second chance to see if something would've worked out in the past. Is he a chump for giving in to this? I don't know, you know him better than I do. You've given us a glimpse of what this woman's past entailed, what about him? Is he a Divorcee? He's 300lbs of loyal good guy, I got that, and I would assume he's had his sh!t together long enough to be a 'catch'. Does he recognize his own value to her? Does he even question, as you are now, why he's the "right guy" now?

You know these 2 better than all of us here, so as to her, can you honestly say she can genuinely appreciate someone like your friend? Is she the type to show this appreciation and gratitude for his re-acceptance of her in such a way that would excuse putting him off in college for someone else and get back with him a decade or more later? You mentioned you hardly knew her back then, has she impressed you significantly enough now to cause you to think her feelings for him are now sincere versus a kind of convenient opportunism?

Rather than questioning why women can't see a quality guy in the past, maybe it should really be, what makes her accutely able to see him as a quality guy in the now?

 

[WestCoaster]

That said, why did you post about them here?

I thought it was an interesting story. In the future I am going to keep what I think are interesting stories in-house, i.e., to my friends and family.

Does he even question, as you are now, why he's the "right guy" now?

I don't know, I saw him at homecoming, did the campus tour with him and his gf, pounded a few brews, went to a football game. It didn't get any more complex than that; wasn't a time for a psycho-analytic session

You know these 2 better than all of us here, so as to her, can you honestly say she can genuinely appreciate someone like your friend?

Yes.

Rather than questioning why women can't see a quality guy in the past, maybe it should really be, what makes her accutely able to see him as a quality guy in the now?

Not sure, see homecoming agenda above. My hunch is -- and this is why many college gf's are temporary -- is you get jobs in different locales. You don't sink money into college (even though it was cheaper back in the day) so you can be unemployed after college. I broke up with a gf just after graduation because she took a teaching job 60 miles north, I took a newspaper job 60 miles west, we both had done the long distance deal before and it hadn't worked. My guess on this relationship is they got jobs in different cities and they'd gone in different directions. I'd seen him with different women over the years. He told me he just called her on a whim, wanted to catch up. Again, some of my hunches are just that, hunches.

In the future, I'm keeping my feel-good (at least what I think are feel good) stories to myself.

 

[squirrels]

I like how the amateur psychologists (who have no background in the field) come out of the woodwork. Actually he wasn't waiting for her, he's dated a lot and had many girlfriends. He called her out of the blue. Just thought it might be an interesting story, but the constant AFC shout-out of course would happen. It's futile sometimes on this board, utterly f-cking futile.

You're going to call people AFC when you're sitting here whining about "why women can't recognize a good man when they see one"?

F*CK women if they can't recognize a good man when they see one. THAT'S why. Who cares why women fail to recognize golden opportunities? Why is that so much of a problem/loss for you, unless you don't have options yourself?

If you really ARE a quality male, then she fails to recognize it for one of two reasons:

1) You haven't done a good enough job marketing yourself

OR

2) She's not a quality FEmale.

Where'd you get your PhD in psychology, by the way? And if you have all the answers, then why ask the questions?

 

[dietzcoi]

Westcoaster, you are too close to this situation. You are not objective, as this is your friend.

You have made numerous posts, which I have found very good, about various AFCs you have seen in your life.

If this guy was an enemy instead of a friend you would have hung him out to dry on this board!!

Bottom line: The woman passed him up when she had value (youth, beauty, no kids, etc)

Now her value has diminished and she will "settle" for him.

It is obvious to those with an objective view of this. It is human nature for the woman to grab at anything she can get once she is on the downward glide path. This has been repeated hundreds millions of times all over the world throughout history.

Please do not take this as a personal attack on you!!!

Dietzcoi

 

[WestCoaster]

I don't know the exact dynamics of their previous relationship. I know like many in college, they went different directions for jobs. I know they're both happy now.

I know they don't walk down the street talking about AFC's, AMOGs, Alpha Males, PUA's, or complain about things on a website. They seem happy; they're not engaged. It appears they are seriously dating. He's the kind of guy if it doesn't work out, he'll move on. He's quite centered and happy with his life, whether he's with a woman or not.

I know I'm 100 percent right on this and everyone else is wrong because I know the situation. I also know I learned a lesson: keep personal stories to a bare minimum here because some guys are just terminally unhappy and see the world only in their "he's an AFC/she's a 'ho" tiny little sosuave world.

 

[joekerr31]

Back in the day, pretty much loved this one girl, and still have strong feelings. She ditched me and went with this guy and i was like huh?? im getting ditched for that.....thing is, i was nowhere near my potential at the time, in looks, status, anything. The only thing i had was my word that i wud be the goods and she called my bluff. Now i have my shot with her. But why would i go back to that?

my personal rule of thumb is to NEVER date someone a second time around.

people don't change. and even when they do, the dynamic between two people doesn't change. in the case of WC's story, whatever these two 'had' originally wasnt enough to keep them together. and while they may be into each other again, i suspect (just a suspicion based on generally how these things go), with enough time whatever drove them apart originally will drive them apart again.

the thing this time though that might help them is that her value is lower and she has kids. so this time she might be willing to step down off her pedastal a bit and treat him more like a king.

who knows, i hope things work out for the guy.

but as for dating someone who dumped you, rejected you, or whom thing ssimply didn't work out with - I think you are making the right move swifty.

nothing is as good as a fresh start. people NEED fresh starts. both people need to be free of who they use to be and free to build a relationship based on who they are today.

and the reality is that if you have a history with someone, you cannot help but see them partly for who they are today, and partly for who they use to be. it almost NEVER works out long term when old beaus give it a second shot - the only time it works out is if they have both reached a level of desperation that their IL in each other is artificially inflated.

even if one person realizes they made a mistake by dumping the other, it doesn't matter. if their original IL was high enough they wouldn't have made that mistake. yes it was a mistake, but it was how they felt, it reflected their actual interest level. and a chic has experienced low IL in you, i dont care if its 20 years later and your a different man, it will be MUCH easier for her IL to drop again compared to some chic that you just met and who you dont have history with.

 

[MR_PERFECT]

I know I'm 100 percent right on this and everyone else is wrong because I know the situation.

The only people that know the situation are the two in the relaionship.

 

[joekerr31]

I also know I learned a lesson: keep personal stories to a bare minimum here because some guys are just terminally unhappy and see the world only in their "he's an AFC/she's a 'ho" tiny little sosuave world.

no offense WC, but this ain't hte WC i know. i've never seen you react this way before. you're trashing posters, trashing the site, basically shooting down people's views based on an emotional perspective you have on their reactions, etc.

not cool dude. not sure if your just stressed out lately, but to be honest, its almost like your trying to pick a fight with folks.

 

[WestCoaster]

I'm usually of the theory of don't date someone again, probably a different dynamic here. Like I said, I don't know who dumped whom, but this guy was the right guy all along, IMO.

Now one thing I've understood is many here will be terminally unhappy, like all the time. A good story is turned bad, a good guy is painted as AFC, a good woman (most don't believe there are here on this board) is a 'ho.

A lot of guys talk positive here, how to be a man, how to nut up, how to stand tall, etc. It's a front. The terminal unhappiness of this board is stunning and I've got to learn to accept it. It's just the way it is here, people are very disappointed in their lives and they project it on to everyone and everything.

To be honest, if possible I'd revisit one gal I dated in college if the opportunity came up. Wouldn't make me AFC or stupid. I would be just being me. Like my friend, if it didn't work out, I'd move on to another woman. It's not a black and white world where everyone is an AFC and every woman is a 'ho and every re-kindling of a relationship is stupid. If it was always stupid 100 percent of the time, then why would we hear success stories.

I took a year off from Sosuave and it was refreshing. I came back and it's been good, too. But now I know why I took a year off. The rest of the world is partly AFC, but a lot of the world is good. Too many here see the world as bad and people who don't follow their blueprint in life get the strange tags of AFC and 'ho. Most people don't think like this. I'd highly suggest some of you -- and I'll get right in line -- to take a year off from this site. It will do you good.