zekko said:
There's an expression "Don't Hate the Player, Hate the Game".
But I've never understood why the men on this forum hate the AFC so much. Especially considering that most of the members came here as AFCs. You hate your past self that much? I'm ashamed of some of my past actions with women, but they were a necessary step I had to take to learn.
I know many here blame the AFC for the inflated value of women (they suck up to them). I've never really bought into that, I think the PUAs are just as much to blame for constantly seeking sex from them, but that's getting off my point.
My impression of being AFC is that it is simply an immature state, like being an adolescent. I don't see how men can remain AFC after repeated interactions/relationships with women. Being that close with women should teach you clearly that the AFC approach is the wrong one to take - it simply doesn't work. Maybe most AFCs just don't have that much experience with women - I could understand that. I don't understand men who remain AFC after repeated failed relationships.
It's like when you first start playing golf or whatever. You learn what works, what doesn't. What a good risk is to take, what isn't. You have to learn through experience. If being AFC is an immature state, hating the AFC is like hating the beginner golfer. Maybe they're a nuisance on the course, but we were all beginners once, and should be given some consideration.
I've never understood it either. My guess is internal insecurity on the part of the self-styled "PUA" that takes the form of projection, because a lot of guys here are either former AFCs, recovering AFCs, or still have some AFC habits or tendencies. I don't see how AFCs make things harder for the "players" and the "winners" from getting women in the dating market. The investment bankers, doctors, lawyers, successful actors, male models, they get their pick of the litter regardless of what else is out there for women to choose from in the dating market. And the stark relief between a guy who has some combination of money, looks, charm and social status and the guy who doesn't makes the former look all the more attractive in comparison.
I think the inflated egos and entitlement mentality women have today come mainly from:
A) Popular culture that tells them they can have it all, that they can delay marriage and kids and not worry about The Wall while they work on establishing their careers, and they don't need a man for survival. So they shift their criteria for what they want in men. Popular culture tells them that they deserve the Tom Bradys, Brad Pitts and George Clooneys and anything less is settling. So you have 5's that think they're 8's and that they deserve nothing less than a 10. And strangely enough, you would think that a woman approaching The Wall would start to get more realistic about her options and what sort of qualities she should prioritize in finding a man, but in practice from what I've seen, it's the opposite. The smart women understand the value and importance of finding a good man in their prime fertility and sexual market value years, because the only thing an older woman has to offer over a younger woman with a tighter and hotter body is her loyalty, maturity and devotion to her man. The ones that ride the **** carousel in their twenties and then find themselves approaching The Wall seem to have even more hangups and are even pickier about who is worthy of them. They think that because they stuck it out this long they should get their payoff instead of realizing that the 6'5 investment banker making $500,000 a year is probably not walking through that door and prefers the 25 year old. Invariably the 25-30 year olds I date are more fun to be around, seem less beaten down by life, are more positive and optimistic, whereas the 30+ women I'm rapidly losing patience with, because they invariably have either Princess Complexes or some other kind of hangups related to their lives not quite turning out quite the way they wanted. We men want women in our lives, but women HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE being single. They are by far the needier sex when it comes to emotional and physical companionship. The ones that are well into their thirties, single and never married are usually that way for a reason.
B) There's a strain of feminism that tells women it's okay to be convenient feminists, i.e. they can be feminists when it's to their advantage and when it's not they can fall back on the traditional patriarchal model. Men are still expected to fulfill their obligations under the old patriarchal contact but for women it's optional. They can do it if it works for them and disregard it if it doesn't.
C) Some double standards in life work to the advantage of men, some double standards in life work to the advantage of women. Some (a lot in fact) work to the advantage of white males, while some (a lot fewer) work to the advantage of minorities. We all know the one about how men can sleep around and be players while women who do the same are considered sluts. And whereas while a tiny minority of women will be actively turned off by the stud/player, most will not penalize him for it and will actively consider him a prize. Double standards that don't work in favor of men are the fact that an unemployed man that lives with his parents, women will not consider him for dating/relationships, whereas an unemployed woman who lives with her parents will not have that held against her by men as long as she's hot. Women wanted equality when it comes to feminism, and by all means I support equal pay for equal work and for people to be able to pursue their passions and dreams regardless of what equipment they're lugging between their legs, but it seems like the way it's worked out is that women are getting all of the perks, rights and advantages of equality without the same responsibilities and accountability.
I'm also willing to bet that back in the day there were far fewer AFCs around, or at least far fewer unhappy AFCs around, because finding a mate wasn't that hard. Under the old system women needed men more for financial security and therefore unless you were a criminal or some kind of lazy deadbeat, it wasn't hard to convince some woman to be with you and marry you. No society or civilization has ever been wholly virtuous, so this shouldn't read as an ode to the good ol' days when they consisted of slavery, Jim Crow or whatnot, but in some ways it seems like relations between the sexes were more harmonious back then. Men were men and women were women. I have no problem with women being in the workplace in equal numbers to men, but that changes the model for traditional male-female relations and expectations and behaviors need to be adjusted on both sides. AFCs today are guys that I think are not equipped to navigate this new sexual landscape. Back in the day you could be a beta AFC and still get a woman to marry you or enter into a LTR with you. These days the sexual market place is just much more unforgiving. Don't wish that it were easier, just wish that you were better, or whatever the saying is.
As men we have it pretty tough in some ways and we should be each other's allies.
