Hatred for AFCs

[zekko]

Some of the posts here remind me that PUAs run this movement, so that's likely where the hate comes from. Guys who are out trying to fvck may find the "relationship guy" in his way. Maybe a hot girl is married and won't cheat on her husband. Maybe a boyfriend gets p!ssy and drags her off before she gives out her number.

Some of the examples here, like making anti-male laws or promoting the BPD girl at work seem a little extreme to be charged to the average AFC guy, who is just not very good with women. I actually think white knighting is also a seperate issue, though it can be related.

I just don't have the "us versus them" mentality. For one thing, I don't believe all the guys on this forum are alphas, no matter what they say. I see the battle as being with ourselves, to be the best we can be, not with other men. Even if they are lacking some education and/or experience.

 

[( . )( . )]

hating the AFC is like hating the beginner golfer. Maybe they're a nuisance on the course.

A nuisance? COME AGAIN !

Try the socially unaware/chicken sh!t AFC mentality being directly responsible for every societal problem Western men currently face.

• [FONT=Times New Roman","serif]Men constantly portrayed as incompetent,goofy douchebags by mainstream media, can't do anything right without the firm mature hand of a woman.[/FONT]
• [FONT=Times New Roman","serif]No reproductive rights.[/FONT]
• [FONT=Times New Roman","serif]Next to no parental rights.[/FONT]
• [FONT=Times New Roman","serif]Don't get me started on our gender biased legal system.[/FONT]
• [FONT=Times New Roman","serif]Male suicide 4 times more likely than female and rising every year.[/FONT]
• [FONT=Times New Roman","serif]The "disposable male" phenomenon (women and children first) that is still indoctrinated into young boys but without any rewards of the past.[/FONT]
• [FONT=Times New Roman","serif]Highest non interest dropout rate for boys ever seen, courtesy of a fem-centric education system ( a for women by women learning curriculum in other words)[/FONT]
• [FONT=Times New Roman","serif]An over abundance of emasculated and clueless enablers with quite literally half the testosterone levels of their forefathers.[/FONT]

I like to think I've helped quite a few over the years but as a collective you can bet your ass I hate them. And that sh1t is only exacerbating with a son on the way.



Edit: I probably should have read jitterbug's post before I started my rant and raised my blood pressure.

 

[zekko]

That's a nice list, T!ts, but I don't see how you can blame all that stuff on the Average Frustrated Chump. Maybe they're responsible by not actively opposing some of these things, but I don't see all the "alphas" on this forum doing anything to effect change either, other than to b!tch about it on this forum.

Maybe it's because I live in the fairly conservative midwest, but I don't think I've ever talked to a single male that wasn't unhappy with the gender bias in the legal system.

As I understand it, an AFC is a guy who has trouble with women, he's not automatically a left wing liberal feminist. But I'm sure it's nice to have a built in scapegoat to blame everything on, instead of looking at the real sources of the problem.

 

[( . )( . )]

That's a nice list, T!ts, but I don't see how you can blame all that stuff on the Average Frustrated Chump.

It's quite simple, every AFC is a piss weak enabler by default. Think about it logically, would any of this sh!t exist if every single man all of a sudden took the red pill? Of course it wouldn't. By rights there would be blood on the streets for these phucked up imbalances and you know it.(There wouldn't be really because there would be nobody in opposition but you get my drift)

Maybe they're responsible by not actively opposing some of these things

That's good enough for me.

 

[Who Dares Win]

As I understand it, an AFC is a guy who has trouble with women, he's not automatically a left wing liberal feminist. But I'm sure it's nice to have a built in scapegoat to blame everything on, instead of looking at the real sources of the problem.

Check the two different types of afcs I wrote about previously.

There is a kind that is not a left wing liberal feminist but its more than happy to accept that sh1t and enforce it himself to gain approval and try to "get the upper hand on other men".

An example is the male cvnt who works in one of those "equality agencies" alone with women who not only embrace the anti-male hate but enforce it even more than the femi-nazi he works with.

Of course this example is the most evident but there are plenty of men who somehow behave like that, from the white knight at the club who reproach you because you leave a girl who plays hard to get, to the to the pussies who give support to girls no matter what any time they have an argue with a man.

Nobody is mad at the confused guy who plays by the rules this sick society gave him, we are mad at those who try to get an advantage for themlseves by putting other men down cause they lack what it takes to compete with them and fake empathy with women as strategy.

 

[typical]

Nah I have to say I actually hate AFC's, now before I start I will say that when I was younger I had many AFC habits which I'm certain I picked up from school from all the female teachers I had. Hell I spent more time with my teachers then with my parents as they were hardworking people but I know for a fact that my dad called the shots.

Now after I found this website and realized that the internal conflict I was having was due to the brainwashing I had received from my schooling was I angry at the system? Yea a bit but more angry that I didn't have the guts to wake up before hitting my late teens early tweens.

Now these days I behave in a "I'll do what I want" way and I have noticed the different way people respond to me especially at work. The feminist bit(h's at work constantly try to cut me down to size shame me or ridicule me and my best response is to laugh it off and continue doing what I was that bothered them so much. The AFC enabler boss hates that all the young girls flock to hang around in my vicinity, even though I spend most of my time pulling their bra straps smacking their bums and flicking pieces of paper at them with a rubber band. Most of these are women aged between 19-30 and are all above average hot looking.

I've had many "you shouldn't do that" lectures from him and the funny thing is that these same women butt in and say it's just harmless fun to him while giving me a knowing wink, its as if these women are telling me I could literally take them out back into the storage room and fu(k them if I wanted.

Then I have the mid 30's old woman that wants me to treat her like royalty because she's university educated has a husband that has a well paying job and is a decent mom. She expects me to treat her like a queen and get away with everything that she can, and when I turn around and stand my ground and put her into place she has the biggest bit(ch session to our AFC boss.

Seriously I understand that we shouldn't be hating on our AFC brothers but the sh!t they pull off just makes you want to smack them in the face, I know I was bad when I was younger but I learned to sort myself out so why can't they especially when they are 5-10 years older then myself.

So yea I hate "Feminist entitlement seekers" and "AFC enablers" BUT without so many of them around my job would be a tad harder I still don't think I'm in the top 10-20% as I still have a tonne of things to get done (my own place my own business etc) but having an upper hand in knowing how to game is very good for being able to pick and choose what I want or don't want is a very good place to be at.

So In short I enjoy the status quo but that doesn't mean I have to like AFC's now does it

 

[zekko]

I find the idea that unattractive men are to blame for the gender bias in the legal system completely laughable. These guys are schmucks, by and large. Rather, the culprits are politicians who try to curry favor with female voters and lobbyists by pushing forward the feminist agenda. They appoint the judges. These guys are more likely the narcissistic/sociopathic power hungry alphas that are so worshipped here. They could care less if their manipulations disadvantage any of their fellow men, as long as they themselves benefit. The poor everyman schmuck is far more likely to be guilty of caring.

As for enablers, I still say the PUAs are just as bad. If a woman acts up, what's the usual advice here? Keep her around and fvck her, but don't commit to a relationship. So you reward her by giving her sex. You're giving her sex with a bad boy, the one thing you guys claim she craves the most. Way to punish her bad behavior.

we are mad at those who try to get an advantage for themlseves by putting other men down cause they lack what it takes to compete with them and fake empathy with women as strategy.

That is contemptable, but it's wrong to hang an umbrella over all "AFCs" and stereotype them as such. Perhaps these types should have their own seperate word to describe them.

Now after I found this website and realized that the internal conflict I was having was due to the brainwashing I had received from my schooling was I angry at the system? Yea a bit but more angry that I didn't have the guts to wake up before hitting my late teens early tweens.

Maybe one reason I don't despise these guys is because I didn't have a forum that told me I should. I had to get over my AFC tendencies by learning through experience. I figure if I could do it, everybody should be able to. But it sounds like some poor guys can't even get the experience.

By the way, just because your boss is a pr!ck, doesn't mean you should hold that against all chumps. Most of them are probably too big of chumps to even become a boss.

 

[Burroughs]

It's quite simple, every AFC is a piss weak enabler by default. Think about it logically, would any of this sh!t exist if every single man all of a sudden took the red pill? Of course it wouldn't. By rights there would be blood on the streets for these phucked up imbalances and you know it.(There wouldn't be really because there would be nobody in opposition but you get my drift)



That's good enough for me.

yup AFC beta faggotry is a huge part of what we think of as 'western' culture

....remember women are forever herd animals

...even a chick dating an alpha will have multiple female friends (NOT TO MENTION MOVIES, TV, OPRAH, LIFETIME, PBS, NPR AND OTHER SUNDRY FAGGOTRY) dating betas....some of these betas will be highly supplicating buying their chicks E class benzes and 325s

then your gf will come to you and say 'ashley's bf bought her a beemer' and you can say 'shut yo mouth bish and go make me a sammich before i stick it up your azz' but after seeing all the shiny trinkets her gf's beta bfs keep buying your gf may get incrementally brainwashed.

THE ACTIONS OF ALL BETAS TRICKLE UP TO THE ALPHA AS A RIVER OF POISON THROUGH THE MIND OF HIS HERD INCLINED GIRLFRIEND

 

[Findog]

I find the idea that unattractive men are to blame for the gender bias in the legal system completely laughable. These guys are schmucks, by and large. Rather, the culprits are politicians who try to curry favor with female voters and lobbyists by pushing forward the feminist agenda. They appoint the judges. These guys are more likely the narcissistic/sociopathic power hungry alphas that are so worshipped here. They could care less if their manipulations disadvantage any of their fellow men, as long as they themselves benefit. The poor everyman schmuck is far more likely to be guilty of caring.

As for enablers, I still say the PUAs are just as bad. If a woman acts up, what's the usual advice here? Keep her around and fvck her, but don't commit to a relationship. So you reward her by giving her sex. You're giving her sex with a bad boy, the one thing you guys claim she craves the most. Way to punish her bad behavior.


That is contemptable, but it's wrong to hang an umbrella over all "AFCs" and stereotype them as such. Perhaps these types should have their own seperate word to describe them.


Maybe one reason I don't despise these guys is because I didn't have a forum that told me I should. I had to get over my AFC tendencies by learning through experience. I figure if I could do it, everybody should be able to. But it sounds like some poor guys can't even get the experience.

By the way, just because your boss is a pr!ck, doesn't mean you should hold that against all chumps. Most of them are probably too big of chumps to even become a boss.

Makes me wonder if some of the guys here know what a Venn Diagram is. I, too, thought an AFC solely meant a guy who is not good with women, operates from a scarcity mindset, and tries to get women by being overly nice and accomodating. Some AFCs are liberal feminists that go along and stand up for feminist paradigms, but not all of them. It seems that what the guys here vehemently despise are the men that are liberal feminists and undermine their fellow man by sucking up to women at the expense of throwing other guys under the bus. Not all AFCs are making things harder for their fellow men. A lot of them end up that way because they had absent or distant father figures that never taught them how to be men. This is the first example of what Who Dares Win posted about. Those guys deserve our sympathy and help. The latter guys, the ones that are actively aiding the worst impulses of feminism, those guys are rightly despised.

And there are very few pure Alphas. Most guys have a mixture of alpha and beta traits.

 

[zekko]

Makes me wonder if some of the guys here know what a Venn Diagram is. I, too, thought an AFC solely meant a guy who is not good with women, operates from a scarcity mindset, and tries to get women by being overly nice and accomodating. Some AFCs are liberal feminists that go along and stand up for feminist paradigms, but not all of them.

The problem with a forum like this is you start out with a concept like the AFC, and over time this becomes a magnet for every possible undesireable attribute that can be ascribed to men.

AFC stands for Average Frustrated Chump, originally this was a guy who wasn't very good with women, had to rely on luck and social circle to get laid, wasn't proactive, and probably married one of his early girlfriends (if he could even attract them) because he didn't know any better and didn't have many options. That's a pretty realistic, and common model.

But time goes on, and the poor guy has become an anti-male demon. He's the guy who buys his girl a car. He does everything the girl tells him to. He becomes a judge so he can suck more alimony out of the pockets of divorced men. He lobbies Congress to enact more feminist legislation. He writes his favorite TV shows asking them to depict more men as clueless dunces. Now he's become a cartoon character stereotype. How many of these guys exist, as opposed to the guys described in the prior paragraph?

 

[Victory Unlimited]

I think Zekko has finally pointed out the real problem here. What seems to be the point of contention is the "word" as it pertains to the perceived "definition". The acronym "AFC" is really at the core of the problem.

I don't believe that it's really possible to have a truly substantive discussion about the wide-reaching, societal implications of men "failing to be MEN" by using such demeaning, short-sighted, PUA terminology as "Average Frustrated Chump" as a starting point.

Meanwhile, Zekko is also correct when he pointed out THIS:

I don't believe all the guys on this forum are alphas, no matter what they say.

Alpha THIS. Beta THAT. Omega WHATEVER.

These provocative descriptions may serve a purpose for the sake of making these online conversations more "flavorful", but let's not delude ourselves into thinking mankind, womankind, or LIFE in general can be or "should be" reduced to such SAFE, EASY, simplistic, and cookie-cutter concepts.

This shyt goes A LOT deeper than that.

It's possible that a lot of guys here have let their FETISH for categorizing themselves and other men by trendy and fashionable Greek Lettering cloud their perceptions of REALITY. Hell, the last time I ran into a REAL "Alpha" was when I saw THIS shyt:

Exhibit A (uhh, I mean Exhibit "Alpha")

...and from what I can see, HALF these Muther Fukkers look like they may actually have PUSSSSIES...


V.U.

 

[Boilermaker]

The problem with a forum like this is you start out with a concept like the AFC, and over time this becomes a magnet for every possible undesireable attribute that can be ascribed to men.

This problem with this forum, that problem with this forum, the guys on this forum blah blah blah...

Why is Uncle Zeek constantly feeling the need to "correct" or "shepherd" us and find out the holes in our definitions is beyond me.

But let me try to tackle the real issue:

The reason why we constantly massage and expand the notion of the AFC is quite simply, the fact that WE ARE RUNNING A MAN-HELP FORUM HERE. So if you are expecting us to defend gay rights, you have come to the wrong place.

All the unwanted attributes of manhood are stripped from an ideal Platon-esque "alpha" , leaving behind a perfect model for us to target.

It is true that every one of us has a different level of "alpha"-ness, some of us have not quite made it, and some of us are getting there and so on...

We generally talk about the same stuff, and as far as I know most of us don't feel the need to stir epistemological discussions here because of a large influx of pressing real life problems. People mostly come here with real stories and problems, and they don't care about the formal definitions of our terminology.

On the other hand, I find it hard to imagine you are not getting your head around the basic fact that whatever we criticize here will simply be attributed to an imaginary AFC model because that's basically what WE DON'T WANT TO BE.

So we don't start out with a definition to begin with, only to change it later, we keep it flexible and carve it out as we go along.

This is just a practical convenience and part of our underground culture so that we can use acronyms condensed with a lot of information to communicate efficiently among ourselves, much like any other society that specializes in an area with shared objectives and practices. I don't see why that can bother anyone unless that person is at fundamental odds with our core principles. In that case, why would one subject himself to such high levels of exposure is beyond me, again.

 

[backbreaker]

This problem with this forum, that problem with this forum, the guys on this forum blah blah blah...

Why is Uncle Zeek constantly feeling the need to "correct" or "shepherd" us and find out the holes in our definitions is beyond me.

But let me try to tackle the real issue:

The reason why we constantly massage and expand the notion of the AFC is quite simply, the fact that WE ARE RUNNING A MAN-HELP FORUM HERE. So if you are expecting us to defend gay rights, you have come to the wrong place.

All the unwanted attributes of manhood are stripped from an ideal Platon-esque "alpha" , leaving behind a perfect model for us to target.

It is true that every one of us has a different level of "alpha"-ness, some of us have not quite made it, and some of us are getting there and so on...

We generally talk about the same stuff, and as far as I know most of us don't feel the need to stir epistemological discussions here because of a large influx of pressing real life problems. People mostly come here with real stories and problems, and they don't care about the formal definitions of our terminology.

On the other hand, I find it hard to imagine you are not getting your head around the basic fact that whatever we criticize here will simply be attributed to an imaginary AFC model because that's basically what WE DON'T WANT TO BE.

So we don't start out with a definition to begin with, only to change it later, we keep it flexible and carve it out as we go along.

This is just a practical convenience and part of our underground culture so that we can use acronyms condensed with a lot of information to communicate efficiently among ourselves, much like any other society that specializes in an area with shared objectives and practices. I don't see why that can bother anyone unless that person is at fundamental odds with our core principles. In that case, why would one subject himself to such high levels of exposure is beyond me, again.

i don't really have much to say about the OP but something that was said above me i did find quite interesting and true. You know when i first came here, an aFC was just a guy as stated, who was fustrated beucase he could not get women and did not know how to get women. he blelieves if you do what the woman tell you to do that at the end of the day you will find the woman for you yet he does this and gets rejected, cheated on and everything else.

but as you come here and you get older, now the AFC has become more than that. it has now taken on every undesirable trait that a male can have. If you are lazy? you are an AFC. if you are out of shape? you are an AFC. if you are broke and unemployed? you are an AFC. if you met a girl earlier in life and have been dating her for 4-5 years regardless of how much she likes you, you are an AFC lol. if you have a child before you have a career you are an AFC. if you are in debt you are an AF C. If you like fancy restaurants you are an AFC. if you like taking girls tot her movies you are an AFC. If you like chick flicks you are an AFC. If you don't **** 5 times a week you are an AFC and on and on.

I think that AFC has now taken on the meaning of being what society tells you to do, doing whatever everyone thinks you should do. I don't know i agree with all that. I mean like, i am a firm believer in plate spinning. but i am not prepared to call a guy who does not wish to splin plates an AFC. Just a different philosophy.

I personally do believe that a man who allows himself to be lead around by his **** is an AFC because, if you think about it how is that guy really any different than the guy who first comes here and cant' get any from anyone? the only difference is that one of them has found a woman or women that will tolerate them but neither are really in control of their own lives and destiny's.

 

[zekko]

Maybe I'm a little obsessive compulsive, but I do think that the meanings of words are important. If you make a statement, then change the meaning of a word, the statement might change from being true to being false. If two people are talking, and don't agree on the meaning of the words, no true communication is taking place.

I also think it is wrong to hate the weak and inexperienced, especially if you've made the same mistakes yourself, and won't tolerate it when others make them. Unless they are lazy or absolutely refuse to learn, and are determined to remain in their weakness.

Finally, there are a few on this forum who like to criticize me for questioning their tenets. "Just swallow the red pill, don't ask what's in it". While I agree with a lot of what is said around here, I do often find the average PUA's view of reality a little askew.

Remember, it's mainly guys in their 20s who have formulated most of this game theory. Considering that source, do you really expect me to accept everything they tell me without question?

 

[Boilermaker]

no I don't.

That's why I am more intrigued than disturbed.

Hating the weak and the inexperienced is probably a young man's disease. I try to remember that every once in a while.

Merci beaucoup Uncle Zeek

 

[backbreaker]

no I don't.


Hating the weak and the inexperienced is probably a young man's disease. I try to remember that every once in a while.

Merci beaucoup Uncle Zeek

people are going to make the mistakes. so much so that is why 95% of my posts are in the mature man section; i believe a "DJ" under the age of 25 is an oxymoron therefore i do not waste my posts on people who aren't going to listen anyway. I do not mean that in a negative way, somethings you just have to learn for yourself. YOu have to learn that you don't want to catch every piece of ***** that is thrown at you and you need to have an emotional reference to recall from being truly scared or the turmoil that comes with bad *****. There are certain things that you will only learn by being in the field.. how to feel a woman out, when to press when not to, just stuff.

so I mean, i get that part.and people are going to make mistakes and **** i'm not perfect i make mistakes. But what gets me, are people who make the same fvcking mistake over and over again and keep coming asking the same thing over and over again. There is a lot about me you can or cannot say but you don't have to tell me **** twice that i promise you. i learn and i don't or at least, i am conscious about the mistake i made and try not to make it again. what gets me are the people who just.. they don't progress. they are dealing with the same issues as they were 5 years ago.

like, you have been here since 2006 and you are still having the same sillya ss looks do or don't matter debate, by then you could have freaking gotten in the gym and became an amature bodybuilder lol but you would rather debate the **** online. people like that i have little patience for.

 

[Desdinova]

The other problem you may have is that once they're under the pvssy spell, they are no longer your friends. You will get dropped like a hot potato if some chick winks at them.

I can see your point with the men criticizing you when you've got a woman. That's not a friend. But when they ditch you for a woman, I actually can forgive them for that. There's no way I can't because nearly every single AFC is like this. They're afraid of pissing her off by spending too much time with their friends and not spending enough time with her. When she dumps his ass, that's when I make an effort to show them how to treat a woman and retain your friends & hobbies.

What the AFCs ruin is ways to romance a woman. Buying flowers for a woman might be nice once in a while, but the AFCs smother women with the goddam things. They spoil the woman to the point where she expects it from the man. They buy her drinks because she has nice cleavage. Women become extremely egotistical and IMO damaged from being constantly spoiled.

When the DJ enters into the picture, he ends up constantly turning down her requests for him to spoil her. The woman becomes extremely annoying and isn't worth the fvck that you seduced her for.

I've recently become the firm believer that the best women out there are the ones who are low-mileage and young. They're easy to seduce, keep, maintain, and aren't going to drive you fvcking crazy with their constant requests for being spoiled because they haven't been spoiled for years by the desperate AFCs. They're also attractive and have tight pu55ies. These are the women you can reward with romantic gestures. Of course, as DJs you KNOW you don't want to do it often, but when you do you know it will be special.

I've been so turned off by many women I've dated that I NEVER want to do anything romantic for them. I believe romantic gestures should be a reward for a woman's good behavior, but there's so many women who aren't well behaved mainly due to AFCs making them spoiled brats.

 

[don't]

I don't understand why anyone remains an untrained fighter, both armed and unarmed. It's obviously needed, either by yourself or loved ones you SHOULD have trained, so why aint you GOT it, hmm? What's your bs excuse, anyway?

 

[zekko]

people are going to make the mistakes. so much so that is why 95% of my posts are in the mature man section; i believe a "DJ" under the age of 25 is an oxymoron therefore i do not waste my posts on people who aren't going to listen anyway

I think there are a lot of sharp guys under 25. But there are a lot of dunderheads too. If you look at my number of posts, you can see that I spend way too much time on this forum. And I read the general board too because there is more content there than there is here. So I've read a lot of idiotic and overzealous statements that guys have posted, just keep that in mind.

They're afraid of pissing her off by spending too much time with their friends and not spending enough time with her.

That's a pretty common thing that women b!tch about, especially controlling type women. "You spend too much time with your friends".

Boilermaker, if you're a French Hoosier, you should know that in the midwest there is a strong masculine culture to counteract the liberal feminist messages that much of the media sends out. As such, if a guy bows to his wife or girl's demands to cut back time with his friends, he's going to get razzed mercilessly about it.

Or maybe this is just something from my day that has faded away over time? From my observations, I don't believe this is true, however.

 

[Desdinova]

That's a pretty common thing that women b!tch about, especially controlling type women. "You spend too much time with your friends".

It's not just controlling women, it's ALL women. Their desire is to be the #1 priority in the man's life. Once she's accomplished that, the challenge has gone out of the relationship and she becomes bored. Its a lot like when you complete a video game - you don't want to play it anymore and want something different.

You have to say no to a woman to prevent her from accomplishing her goal of getting you to make her the top priority in her life. She'll continue to work at it for a lifetime if necessary. If she always has that challenge with you, she'll stick around.