Has anyone been successful in getting a woman to take responsibility for her own emotions in a relationship?

[Black Widow Void]

I've had this happen. My response does not leave them feeling good or victorious, but it does reduce the emotional drama.

"You're too strong of a woman to allow someone else to control you. That's what I like and respect about you"

If she tries to flip the script (and she may)
"Gosh, you seemed so different than those girls that have no self-control."

 

[TheKid]

Women will often blame how they feel on you. It's wrong, but that's how things are. When you are aware of this you can do something about it. Your advice is solid as a rock man! Great job.

You see, most women are aware of the fact that they are acting difficult, but they do it anyway because they follow their emotions. It's your job as a man to make her feel good. Not that "happy wife, happy life" crap, but rather you leading her in such a way that she feels understood. Basicly what you were saying.

A simple trick to do this is to paraphrase what she is saying. You basicly repeat what she said and bounce it back at her. She will feel like you are hearing her and are understanding what she is saying. It's a simple psychological trick. Basic Corey Wayne advice btw.. he repeats this like 10 times in his fricking book he wants you to read 10 to 15 times..

Example:

She's acting biitchy for no reason, or at least that's how it feels like to you. Don't confront her and certainly don't ignore it. Ask her what's wrong (you will have to ask a few times because she will say it's "nothing" the first few times, we all know this means trouble). When she finally opens up and tell you you've been looking at your phone too much and weren't interested in her, then just repeat this.

"Ow, you feel I was looking at my phone too much? So you didn't feel I was into you anymore?"

It's way better than saying stuff like "no that's not true. I do. I'm still into you baby"

She won't believe or feel the latter, but will feel understood by you when you do the former. Crazy shiit, I know, but it really works! Corey Wayne is such a smart man.

After this she will normally calm a bit down and you can really talk about it and improve her mood. Stay centered and try to put a smile on her face. Her attraction for you will sky rocket and the make up sex after this will be incredible

What your saying is true ive done it, but it puts a toll on you when someone is always looking to be validated for everything they feel. Feelings lie all the time i can wake up and feel fat but look in the mirror and the facts are im not. I have this problem qith my girl atm and im starting to see how easily it is for them to drift off emotionally in their own little world, where they will sit in a feeling waiting to be rescued. Its such a weak behaviour and make me want to atart chinning them.

 

[EyeBRollin]

No. And you better stop expecting it. She blames you for her emotions because she is responding to your actions. Women need men for validation. Their entire existence is to be validated by men. When their man isn’t acting right, she acts out.

 

[metalwater]

I note that you tell that this always happens.

I have had a couple of lf LTR that the girl never did to me. Well, one of them did one time and then the next day she came to me and without any prompting made a genuine apology and promised to never do it again. She never did it again. Obviously, because I have had more than one LTR, I don't know the exact right way to do it, else I would only have one...

I have had a couple of others, that do EXACTLY what you tell and did it often. I don't like it.

Don't mean to sound cliche at all. I think the answer is in the interest level. I see you tell that she has a super-high interest. Maybe... I currently think that this type of behaviour is either on purpose or by instinct to get emotional control of the relationship and then physical control based on the same. What an ugly way to look at it, and born from red pill thinking.

Over time this is a big deal if it affects you. If you can manage or let it just flow through you and not damage you then it's ok. If it is damaging you, the damage can add up.

In short, she has to desire you enough to control it. She CAN control it. She has to admire and respect you enough and will not chance to lose you due to this. As men we control ourselves and what we say and do base on our interest level in the same way.

One caveat is that if you are treating her as a plate and have a few side bets but telling her you are exclusive, then she probably can feel it and is justified in her actions.

 

[BeExcellent]

One of the biggest challenges, really the only challenge I still seem to face in LTRs, is dealing with women blaming me for their emotions. I look back at my blue-pill relationships and I had that issue back then, and I look at my recent relationships now that I am much wiser, and I still have that issue now. While I do have more knowledge, confidence, and tools to deal with the situation, I am still struggling with it.

The basic symptom/situation is: Girlfriend feels anxious, angry, insecure, or some other negative emotion. Then girlfriend claims YOU are the cause of the emotion and then begins a "dialogue" with you about it, with the intention of getting you to do or change something in hopes that will "fix" her emotional issue.

Fake example: After a great weekend together and normal dialogue, everything fine, a conversation begins where she says, "I have been feeling extremely anxious all week. I was crying in the shower today. We need to talk." Then through subsequent discussion, turns out that her claimed source of anxiety is that I was "looking at my phone too much over the course of the weekend" which means that I must not like her.

This is just ONE of potentially countless examples. The bottom line is that, from my experience and observation, she doesn't actually know WHY she is experiencing the emotions - the emotions come first, and the justification/explanation for them is then sought out and she's simply taking stabs in the dark as to what the cause could be without ever really knowing for sure, and because she is closest to her man, she immediately assumes that something he is doing is the cause of her emotions. And this is literally ALL women I have ever dated.

I'm looking for two things here:
1. Input from you on whether you've been in relationships with women who don't blame you for all their negative emotions (I'm trying to understand if the consistent pattern I'm seeing is something specific with me and the kind of women I'm choosing to date long-term or if it's just literally 99% of women)
2. If you've found any way to get them to take responsibility for their emotions and stop blaming you.

As for #2, the best and really only thing I have found that helps is to:
1. Genuinely listen to them talk about their feelings
2. Ask questions so they know you care and are listening/understanding what they are saying (even if you don't agree)
3. Don't try to fix - just listen
4. If her conversation turns to her demanding or asking you to do something you don't want to do and don't think you need to do, then you listen, acknowledge that she wants that, but then explain YOUR feelings on the matter and stand your ground. An example of this might be (and this is a fake example): She is feeling insecure because you are still friends with an ex from 10 years ago on social media, even though you never talk to her any more or comment on her posts etc, yet she demands you block her. You know that this is obviously not the cause of her insecurity because it just doesn't make sense and you know that if you block her, she's just going to make additional demands later because she can't figure out and address the true root-cause of her insecurity and you will forever be taking BS orders from her that won't resolve the situation.

In my experience, the above helps a lot, but it doesn't totally solve it. The issues keep coming up and until she resolves her anxiety/insecurity/anger/whatever issues herself (and you can SUPPORT her of course, but you can't do anything that will fix it for her - like caving to her demands that won't actually help her), it's going to be a constant struggle. Since the end of my blue pill days, my long-term relationships always ultimately end with me nexting the girl over this issue. But the more it happens, the more I wonder if there is some magic tool/technique for helping her recognize and take ownership of her own emotions without blaming you and thinking you changing a bunch of things is going to resolve her emotional problems.

The other gotcha with all this is the "Well what are YOU working on? So you think it's all ME?" argument. I've found this happens when you start having deep discussions with her about her emotions and are able to (kindly) get her to admit and recognize that her emotions are HERS and that only SHE can resolve them, but that you are willing to work with her and help understand her and support her (even if that doesn't always mean doing or changing something about yourself that you don't want to and know won't resolve anything). So she then comes back at you with that whole "well I'm doing all this work and I'm trying to change, so you're saying it's all me and you're perfect? What are YOU going to work on?" I literally have no idea how to even respond to this. I'm a mature, easy-going guy, about to hit 45, have a good social life, good job, have faced my fears, had good success with women since discovering red pill, have spent the last five years focusing on self development and self-improvement reading countless books on these subjects and also relationships, and am not a narcissist or have any other crazy tendencies (that I'm aware of haha). I'm certainly open to whatever changes someone suggests to me but when it's just stupid sh*t like her claiming I was on my phone "too much" when I can go in and look at my screen time report and prove that I was on my phone no longer than she was, or <insert any other obviously bullsh*t demand here>, I see no solution. I'm an easy going guy looking for a moderate level of peace and enjoyment and literally every single issue in the relationship comes about from the woman's constant gripes/demands. I feel like responding with, "What exactly do you want me to work on when you are the one constantly complaining?" But that obviously never works.

Advice from the old lady:

Some of this is hardwired due to emotion and the limbic system (emotion is not logical). Some is hormonal. Emotions and hormones both rise and fall. Both are changeable, like the weather. You can never completely eliminate the biology portion of the equation. The same stimulus will elicit different responses on different days. I find that in myself...and I’m pretty stable emotionally as women go. The key is self awareness about this facet of being female and it requires a certain maturity of mind to acknowledge this as a real phenomena.

When you combine the biological reality with less mature mental development you get irrational manifestations. Neurotic behaviors, insecure behaviors, crazy making.

I have found that the best way to cope with these behaviors is through utter (sometimes brutal) honesty. I know to ask for it now in relationships. When I was younger I tended to let assumptions and projections run away with my thought process...and generally this leads nowhere good in a healthy relationship between two people who strive for harmony.

Some of red pill mantra is focused on keeping the woman (or women) off balance. The end result of this in most females (who tend toward immaturity and insecurity to begin with) is to heighten anxiety, not lessen. This is a two edged sword. It increases desire, but it also increases anxiety and fear. The behaviors you cite are all rooted in fear. Fear of loss, fear of deception, fear, fear and more fear. So existing in a red pill mindset can create these behaviors, albeit indirectly at times.

The key isn’t eliminating the underlying feelings (you cannot entirely). The key is managing them. That is why I suggest matter of fact honesty. Women by and large will do better and behave better if they know the real landscape they are in. Men must overcome the fear of being honest.

Are you seeing someone else?

Yes, if someone appeals to me. We are not exclusive. You know I’m not looking for something serious. You are choosing to be here, nobody is making you remain here...

Notice that all the above responses remove power from her allegation and restore power and ownership to the man. Massive frame shift.

Women find comfort in strong frame, strong leadership from the man. It is subconscious. But many men fear to shift the frame by being frank and start eroding their power by apologizing and back pedaling and assuming a defensive stance.

So keeping frame is key. So is responding in a way that shows her she must own her own reactions. Perception is not reality. Accusations do not feel good. People move away from what doesn’t feel good. There is nothing wrong with pointing this out calmly. And stick to it.

 

[oldmanofthesea]

The fact that she sent you all these messages shows that she cares and wants to try to work it out. Don't let that cloud your judgement though with just being wanted/liked/cared for. Do you feel the same way about her?

Yes, I hear you.... I wouldn't say its about my wanting to be liked or cared for. Red pill cured me of that. I do want to work it out with her, mostly because she does have a lot of good qualities, we do a lot of the same activities together, she's outdoorsy and adventurous, and extremely hot, but I am not as into the relationship as she is, and there are really two main reasons for that:

1 - Is that her default mode is to be anxious and insecure all the time and ensure she lets me know about it and often blame me for it and make demands as a result.
2 - My default mode now when I've just had enough of her drama and her getting offended/anxious/insecure over whatever the issue of the day is, is to want to just throw my hands up in the air and walk away and leave her behind. And she knows that because I've done it enough times now - but that compounds the anxiety/insecurity issue for her.

Does she know what the main sticking points are that are preventing you guys from moving further forward?

That is a difficult question to answer - it shouldn't be but it is. I've communicated to her what she does that I don't like, but I think she just sees things SO differently from me that she can't really understand. And I think she believes that some of the things I'm doing are wrong or are things I should change if I want to be in a relationship, and I don't agree with her on those things and I never will and I'll never change. For the year we dated, as a test, I went against my gut and caved on ONE of her demands. That's the only chink in my otherwise iron-clad frame. I knew I shouldn't cave to her wishes because I knew what she was asking for would not cure her insecurity and anxiety but I did it anyway and guess what, my gut was right. So that was the first and last time I did something I knew I didn't need to do, and shouldn't do because I knew it would solve anything.

Just from my experience, everyone has a default mode and eventually most end up back to their default no matter how much they try to change. You have to really ask yourself if this default mode she has is something you can live with or not.

Very true. The answer is absolutely not. I've only given her another chance because I have seen so much progress and a stronger desire to fix things than I've ever seen (or at least this was what was communicated to me and then demonstrated for a good while). It lead me to believe she was doing what I did - and entering a time of growth and change and development that was spurred by a life-crisis (in my case - that was divorce and then a subsequent cold dumping by the next LTR I had after my wife, and in her case, maybe it was her losing the person she really wanted to keep forever). I was able to make the personal changes..... most of us here have done it too. So I know it's possible. But I also know it's extremely rare and most people like to convince themselves their partner will change simply because they want them to.

Don't mean to sound cliche at all. I think the answer is in the interest level. I see you tell that she has a super-high interest. Maybe... I currently think that this type of behaviour is either on purpose or by instinct to get emotional control of the relationship and then physical control based on the same. What an ugly way to look at it, and born from red pill thinking.

I've walked away from this girl enough times and let her beg and plead me back that I can't see how she could have low-interest level. But I agree fully with your second point that the behavior is deliberate or instinctual, with the goal of getting control of the relationship. Yes it is ugly but it is also true. It's like she truly wants me to be a needy, anxious guy who has zero other options, worships the ground she walks on, and will tolerate any and all complaining and unequal treatment from her side. I could give you specific examples of why I believe this for each of those things, but in just one example, recently she was feeling anxious about us because she was over-reading into any every little thing and looking for signs that I'm not into her (mind you, I had a $100 boquet of flowers delivered to her the previous week, and also gave her a hand-written card specifically detailing the changes she had made that I really noticed and appreciated), and she initiated the following text:

Her - I'd like to talk about us this week. I was crying today from anxiety and I don't think that's healthy
Me - Oh wow, sure happy to talk. I'm sorry you're anxious babe
Her - It's definitely something to do with US and I hope we can resolve it
Me - Me too
Her - Are you worried at all about us not working?

So I see this as her wishing I was more anxious than her about the relationship. She's literally asking me if I'm anxious like her. I'm not. I'm a fvcking man. I'm confident. I like her. I want things to work out with her. I've demonstrated with my words and actions that I love and appreciate her, but I'm NOT going to be anxious because I have no need or reason to be. I can't control her - she could dump me at any time. But do I sit around and constantly tell her I'm so nervous she's going to leave me?! Of course not. I accept it as a fact of life. And I know if she did, I'll find someone else and if I don't, I'll still be the same happy guy with lots of friends and interests that I am now, living a full life. This is a very long-winded way of my agreeing with your comment about women trying to get emotional control of the relationship - she doesn't want to be the anxious one.... she wants ME to be the anxious one because she knows the one who isn't anxious holds the power in the relationship. I don't think she thinks that consciously. I think it's instinctual, and I want to know if all women are this way because all the ones I've met are. The real irony with it all is that the second I became the anxious one, she'd lose all respect, sexual attraction, and desire for me, and I'd just be a utility for her, if she even bothered to keep me around.

But maybe I've been so jaded by red pill that I'm seeing things through too negative a lens? I just don't think so given my experience. Remember the example of going against my red-pill gut and what happened there.

Over time this is a big deal if it affects you. If you can manage or let it just flow through you and not damage you then it's ok. If it is damaging you, the damage can add up.

This is great advice. It is the one thing I could say that I am still trying to work on. I've read a couple books by David Deida and he has an elegant way of visualizing the situation - that the feminine energy is like a thunderstorm. Massive power, incredible beauty, very dangerous - a man should not see the danger and cycles as negative, but just something to behold in awe..... nothing to be angry about. Just accept it for what it is, and let it "flow through you" as you said. To be very honest, I'm struggling with it. I just want some peace and feel it doesn't have to be this complicated. Maybe I'm wrong. I will keep working on it. I don't have a difficult time controlling my emotions, exactly - I don't blow up at her or lose my temper, but I get irritated and end conversations politely and take space and end up holding resentment. It is something work on.

In short, she has to desire you enough to control it. She CAN control it. She has to admire and respect you enough and will not chance to lose you due to this. As men we control ourselves and what we say and do base on our interest level in the same way.

One caveat is that if you are treating her as a plate and have a few side bets but telling her you are exclusive, then she probably can feel it and is justified in her actions.

I really do believe she does have that level of desire, but also think her instincts are SO powerful that she is really struggling to contain them, and do the reading and contemplating and podcast listening to shift her mindset. I see progress, but like Lookatu said, it's hard for people not to return to their default mode.

And no, in the case of this girl, I'm not treating her as a plate. It's been a little over a year with her now (with a few months off here and there after I broke things off with her).

 

[Lookatu]

Very true. The answer is absolutely not. I've only given her another chance because I have seen so much progress and a stronger desire to fix things than I've ever seen (or at least this was what was communicated to me and then demonstrated for a good while).

Looks like you have your answer then.

But maybe I've been so jaded by red pill that I'm seeing things through too negative a lens? I just don't think so given my experience. Remember the example of going against my red-pill gut and what happened there.

I agree with you. I think you've made efforts and even broken your frame to try to help her get over this.
From an outsider's perspective, I don't think you're fully compatible with each other.

Maybe she's the type that's looking for someone that is more needy, clingy, possessive type so that she feels more secure? But then again, those types complain at either spectrum. They are never happy. Not saying this is your gal. But I have known some gals that are huge on that kind of stuff. They constantly need to feel wanted, loved and those can come in several forms including words of affirmation.

I know this is girly stuff but it can help you understand each other better if you two haven't taken the love language test. Everyone views being wanted/loved through different means. Maybe she needs to be loved in a way that is compatible to her?

Learn More About Yourself

Discover the secrets that have helped millions of people improve their relationships and themselves.

www.5lovelanguages.com

One phrase comes to mind reading your situation though. "Just because two people are good to each other doesn't mean they are right for each other". I've had a few relationships like that before I discovered this phrase and have had it sink in. I'm now more cognizant of these types of situations now because of it.

Bottom Line:
You've already spent a year on this gal and it involved some drama. You've tried your best and things still didn't come around. Do you want to spend any more of your time and lose opportunities in finding someone more compatible with you?

Good luck brother either way.