Harsh Truth: Women pursue the men that they want

[The Duke]

The question it begs has a simple answer.

Middle aged singles are well known for having a poor day-to-day routine for meeting the opposite sex.

Younger singles are more likely to have a better day-to-day routine. However, Millennials and Gen Z are getting too tech dependent and even they aren't as good in day-to-day life anymore.

You also should factor in the habits of men as to why women don't get as much attention in public as as online. Men tend to cast a wide net online. In person they are more selective/anxious about who they approach.

 

[GoodMan32]

Perhaps you bore women to tears with your conversations, What do you talk about. I would love to see you on a date

She spent much of the date talking to me about what a creep the guy who had me serve as a wingman is.

We also talked about various other stuff (work, her dog, the fact neither of us have much of a social life, etc)

She sat on a bench with me chatting outside for 2 and a half hours after the date (which would suggest she wasn't bored)

 

[GoodMan32]

You also should factor in the habits of men as to why women don't get as much attention in public as as online. Men tend to cast a wide net online. In person they are more selective/anxious about who they approach.

That is true. It takes a lot for me to approach a woman in person.

 

[SW15]

You also should factor in the habits of men as to why women don't get as much attention in public as as online. Men tend to cast a wide net online. In person they are more selective/anxious about who they approach.

This is true on both a philosophical level and a practical level.

On a philosophical level, a man will be somewhat selective about his approaches in real life. It takes effort to make an approach. Few men are real life spam style approaches.

On a practical level, a man can swipe on hundreds of women in the time it takes to talk to less than 5 women. Even with a 1-2% match rate, that's still far more interactions. In a bigger city, a man could join a swipe app and swipe on over 1,000 - 5,000 women in less than a week.

We also talked about various other stuff (work, her dog, the fact neither of us have much of a social life, etc)

Work talk is boring AF. It doesn't create sexual tension.

The fact that neither of us have a social life isn't much of a selling point. It's your job to sell the woman on the idea that being with you will upgrade her life. Your lack of a social life isn't upgrading her life.

She sat on a bench with me chatting outside for 2 and a half hours after the date (which would suggest she wasn't bored)

Way too long for that. Within 30 minutes, you would have been position to tell her to walk to your pad or get a rideshare app ride to your place for sex. You should have physically escalated in a bar/restaurant or on the bench itself to set up for the sex invitation in an enclosed space (your place, her place, or a hotel room if traveling/living with parents).

 

[GoodMan32]

This is true on both a philosophical level and a practical level.

On a philosophical level, a man will be somewhat selective about his approaches in real life. It takes effort to make an approach. Few men are real life spam style approaches.

On a practical level, a man can swipe on hundreds of women in the time it takes to talk to less than 5 women. Even with a 1-2% match rate, that's still far more interactions. In a bigger city, a man could join a swipe app and swipe on over 1,000 - 5,000 women in less than a week.



Work talk is boring AF. It doesn't create sexual tension.

The fact that neither of us have a social life isn't much of a selling point. It's your job to sell the woman on the idea that being with you will upgrade her life. Your lack of a social life isn't upgrading her life.



Way too long for that. Within 30 minutes, you would have been position to tell her to walk to your pad or get a rideshare app ride to your place for sex. You should have physically escalated in a bar/restaurant or on the bench itself to set up for the sex invitation in an enclosed space (your place, her place, or a hotel room if traveling/living with parents).

I admit I'm rusty on what to talk about on dates (seeing as I've only been on 2 dates in the past 9 years, not counting the recent speed dating events)

When sharing the full story on a past post, I remember explaining why I mentioned the fact I have hardly any social life: Part of a larger discussion about my social phobia (Yeah, I know talking about my mental illness goes against every piece of dating advice in the book. My goal, however, was to make sure she was OK with my mental illness. If we were to get involved, my mental illness would come out sooner or later anyway)

Additionally, it came up during the date that the guy who had me serve as a wingman wanted me to do all sorts of social stuff with him. I think that was what precipitated the discussion about my social phobia.

I totally agree 2 and a half hours chatting on a bench is too long. I have a hard time moderating my desperation levels with a woman. I tend to either act too desperate (and scare her away) or too uninterested (and end up getting nowhere). Plus, it doesn't help that autists are prone to coming across as creepy if we escalate.

Furthermore, she was talking about how creepy the guy who had me serve as a wingman was acting (He was handsy with her. He also tried to kiss her). That's another reason I was reluctant to escalate.

In other words, as much as I wanted to escalate, I had a hard time finding the right escalation method (and a hard time finding a happy medium where I'm not too desperate but also not too distant)

At one point, I asked her "When (insert name of guy who had me act as a wingman) inevitably asks if we had sex, what do you want me to tell him?" (My goal was to set the stage for her to offer me sex)

Evidently that wasn't the right escalation method. Even though she told me feel free to tell him we had sex, she never officially offered to bang me. I suppose it's a moot point anyway. I probably would have chickened out had she offered sex (37/going on 38 is still dangerously fertile)

 

[SW15]

I suppose it's a moot point anyway. I probably would have chickened out had she offered sex (37/going on 38 is still dangerously fertile)

The whole interaction was an autistic/socially awkward interaction.

This is what happens when an autistic man tries to lead an interaction. Even the higher functioning autists (formerly known as Asperger's) have trouble dating. Asperger's men are common at tech companies in Metro San Francisco, which contributes to why San Francisco has a weird dating scene. The Metro San Francisco scene is a lot of Boss Girl and careerist/feminist type women and Aspie/autist men interacting. It's easy to imagine the weirdness.

Various STEM jobs are filled with Aspies as these are men with bachelor's/master's level degrees in STEM disciplines and these men are often making good money.

Work talk is so boring in general and doesn't wet the panties. Most women work some boring, bullshiit white collar job. Her talking about her boring, bullshiit white collar job isn't going to get her horny. She needs to talk about her leisure time passions.

Many neurotypical men do talk with women too much about work stuff and then wonder why she isn't attracted to him.

The fertility phobia stuff you have (and another autist who used to post on this board had) is strange when viewed from the viewpoint of a neurotypical man.

The typical 37-38 year old woman has either had her kids and doesn't want more or she's a childless woman who realizes she's going to be childless.

There are some 37-38 year old childless women who would still be open to kids but most socially savvy men near her own age would find a way to avoid her.

 

[GoodMan32]

The whole interaction was an autistic/socially awkward interaction.

This is what happens when an autistic man tries to lead an interaction. Even the higher functioning autists (formerly known as Asperger's) have trouble dating. Asperger's men are common at tech companies in Metro San Francisco, which contributes to why San Francisco has a weird dating scene. The Metro San Francisco scene is a lot of Boss Girl and careerist/feminist type women and Aspie/autist men interacting. It's easy to imagine the weirdness.

Various STEM jobs are filled with Aspies as these are men with bachelor's/master's level degrees in STEM disciplines and these men are often making good money.

Work talk is so boring in general and doesn't wet the panties. Most women work some boring, bullshiit white collar job. Her talking about her boring, bullshiit white collar job isn't going to get her horny. She needs to talk about her leisure time passions.

Many neurotypical men do talk with women too much about work stuff and then wonder why she isn't attracted to him.

The fertility phobia stuff you have (and another autist who used to post on this board had) is strange when viewed from the viewpoint of a neurotypical man.

The typical 37-38 year old woman has either had her kids and doesn't want more or she's a childless woman who realizes she's going to be childless.

There are some 37-38 year old childless women who would still be open to kids but most socially savvy men near her own age would find a way to avoid her.

I guess I'm damned if I do, damned if I don't.

My last post illustrates what a disaster it is when a male autist leads an interaction. Yet if we leave it up to the woman to lead, that's also a disaster (as the woman wants the man to take the lead in the vast majority of cases)

I can only imagine how disastrous the San Francisco scene is.

I'm a high-functioning autist (back when I found out I'm an autist in middle school, the therapist said I fall into the Aspergers category). You're damn right when you say even high-functioning autists struggle with the ladies.

There's a man in my condo building who's clearly an autist (albeit a high-functioning one like me). Unlike me, he works a high-paying STEM job (and has one of the most expensive condos in the building, as well as a luxury car). Yet even so, I never see him with a woman.

Circling back to the woman I had my last date with, I suppose one problem with the "have the woman discuss her leisure time passions" is the fact this specific woman (per her own admission) has no life

You're right when you say neurotypicals will never get the intense pregnancy phobia of an autist.

 

[SW15]

You're damn right when you say even high-functioning autists struggle with the ladies.

There's a man in my condo building who's clearly an autist (albeit a high-functioning one like me). Unlike me, he works a high-paying STEM job (and has one of the most expensive condos in the building, as well as a luxury car). Yet even so, I never see him with a woman.

I believe it when I see a man in a higher paying STEM occupation struggle to get laid in the conventional mating market.

Boomer STEM guys who were Aspie/autist in the 1970s-1980s seemed to do a little bit better than later generation Aspies/autists. Millennials and now Gen Z have had a more difficult mating market. That's true for both neurotypicals and autists.

An ordinary Boomer who managed to get a wife in the 1970s/1980s and possibly dated other Boomers as a 50+ divorcee after 2000 would have struggled far more in the dating market had he been born a Millennial in the 1980s/early 1990s and dealt with the 2000s-present conventional mating marketplace.

You're right when you say neurotypicals will never get the intense pregnancy phobia of an autist.

Plenty of neurotypical men don't want to get women pregnant.

They trust some combination of condoms and female birth control methods.

I have ejaculated inside the vaginas of multiple women who were not using birth control because I was using a condom. I withdrew after ejaculation and all sperm was in the condom. There were no pregnancies.

I have done that right around ovulation too.

Even thought these women were not on birth control, having a child wasn't an urgent priority for them.

More of the women I've had sex with were birth control users in addition to my condoms. These women on birth control were also not prioritizing having children.

Iron Rule of Tomassi #5 (Always use protection) works well.

Many times, I discuss birth control before sex. If it is same night sex or first date sex, I probably haven't discussed their birth control status. Since I am using condoms, I am protected.

 

[H8CourtshipWithAPassion]

View attachment 13692

It's that type of whining that marks you as autistic. Yes, it's a pity you're not a woman so you cannot just doll yourself up and sit in the corner waiting for a man to show up and take you dancing.


No, that's not recommended. That would be extremely autistic. "Hey, hi, I'm just going through the motions because I see other people do it, but I have no idea what the f*ck I'm doing." Not a good opener.

However, the idea of a good opener is overrated.
You can just walk up to a woman and say, "I like your look, so I came over to see if you're likeable in person as well."
You don't need to overthink openers. The more fabricated the opener sounds, the more you come across as someone who says the same scripted sh!t to every woman. And the opener is only to get her attention on you and to figure out whether she's open for a conversation that may lead somewhere.
A simple opener often leads to a simple response that will make it obvious if you should continue talking with her or find another woman to talk to.

This isn't rocket science.

yeah, this was me intentionally shooting myself in the foot years ago, but i remember one time i asked a woman out, and she responded to me by saying this "oh are you asking me out?", just so she could be sure of my intentions, and i said to her "WELL DUH!, OF COURSE I'M ASKING YOU OUT, I'M A GUY!, IT'S WHAT WE DO!", you can obviously guess how the rest of it went. I felt like saying that because, i know i'm not alone in which its easy as a guy, man, to resent the state of affairs on how men and women interact with each other.

And yes it is true that women normally never risk having their social awkwardness or social ineptness be perceived or dismissed as weird or creepy or uncomfortable during social interactions between the 2 sexes.

While i don't like to blame autism for everything, reminds me, i'm sure lots of people wonder, why hasn't autism been bred out of the gene pool through natural selection? And its another brutal harsh reminder, even though people and society never say this, they just naturally expect us guys, men, to have common sense, to have the instinctive/innate knowledge for knowing what is creepy/weird behavior when interacting with women, they expect us to just naturally get it or have the social intuition, social calibration, for always being smooth or never making any errors that make women uncomfortable, they will always say "don't be creepy and weird then". Which doesn't help, they just expect us to like be born with the knowledge for never being weird or creepy with women.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

yeah, this was me intentionally shooting myself in the foot years ago, but i remember one time i asked a woman out, and she responded to me by saying this "oh are you asking me out?", just so she could be sure of my intentions, and i said to her "WELL DUH!, OF COURSE I'M ASKING YOU OUT, I'M A GUY!, IT'S WHAT WE DO!", you can obviously guess how the rest of it went. I felt like saying that because, i know i'm not alone in which its easy as a guy, man, to resent the state of affairs on how men and women interact with each other.

There are so many different ways you could've responded to that insipid question and that is how you answer? Yeah, you're right, that is not socially calibrated at all.

 

[SW15]

I admit I'm rusty on what to talk about on dates

This is a problem that a lot of men have. Most of the men with this problem are neurotypicals.

There's somewhat of a difference between general social conversation (often non-sexual settings) and the conversations in a romantic/sexual context.

In both settings, it is good to avoid conversations about their occupation. Most people have employment that is solely of the purpose of paying life's basic bills. It's not the kind of thing that gets them passionate. If you are talking to people about something that isn't their passion, the conversation has a ceiling on how exciting that it can be. A conversation could extend for a while talking about the day-to-day of one's jobs, but that's not going to create any emotional connectional or good feelings. That's a bad combination in a romantic/sexual context because women are seeking to create a connection through their feelings.

There are men who talk about somewhat safe topics like news and weather. Neither are good topics of conversation. News conversations can lead into politics, which is boring and creates negative feelings.

It's better to talk with women about things that inspire passion in them. Consumer products purchases, home design, some fashion (avoid too much of this because it can backfire), travel, exercise, art, and whatever else that some woman likes.

Spectator sports are a beta male activity. It's good for men to play sports (physical fitness can improve physique - which is good for seduction). Watching sports is not much of a benefit. More women are into spectator sports now than in the past, but few women care about the deep details of professional or collegiate spectator sports.

It takes real skill to talk about automotive or motorcycle related topics with women. This includes repair as well. A lot of men will go too deep into this (because they are passionate about these topics) and lose the emotional connection.

as much as I wanted to escalate, I had a hard time finding the right escalation method (and a hard time finding a happy medium where I'm not too desperate but also not too distant)

Escalation is difficult for neurotypicals too.

When thinking about escalation, it is always better to escalate than not to escalate.

Escalation is a huge topic and there are a lot of threads on it. Gradual escalation is better.

In sales, there's an idea of Always Be Closing. In seduction, the rule is Always Be Escalating.

Seduction is a combination of sales and marketing.