Gun Ownership.

A-Unit

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Do you own one? Will you own? If so, why? If not, why?

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The topic first begins because I'm reading the Dark Tower, Book II, about the "gunslinger" Roland who is on a quest to find the Dark Tower. I implore anyone to read it as its a fantastic book by Stephen King. He's absolutely perfect with his 2 revolvers. At one point, a doorway opens to another world, OUR world, in which he views ALL people walking without any protection or weapons. Roland's line is put perfectly when he says, "What are these foolish, trusting sheep doing?" Implying people of this time are dumb because they waltz around unprotected, even if there exists some law enforcement to back it up. Though it's fiction, the idea still stands true.

Another quote...from fact.

Make parents now commonly think that guns are bad and kill people, and children should never even think about owning one. Never mind about the proven statistics that guns LOWER crime. Kennesaw, GA. proved this fact is true with their mandatory gun ownership law. (See [5] for more details.) There are also documented cases of children in communities around the country who simply draw a picture of a gun at school or on a bus. Those caught are suspended or expelled under the "zero tolerance policy" most school districts have adopted religiously, just as though God wrote it. This gives parents the illusion of "peace, quiet and security" here on the home front, to help hide the actual agenda of laying the foundations for war in the minds of children. And about guns ownership? History has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, that an armed populace has prevented tyranny. This is never, ever spoken of in the press. Not even on history channels, PBS or documentaries. Hitler knew about it confiscated all the firearms in Germany just before declaring war on his own people, and then the world.

The amendment right protecting the RIGHT to bear arms exist for this reason. First, in the event of a tyrannical government. Second, because you and you alone have FIRST protection over your life. RARE is the day an officer will protect your life at the exact moment you need it. In most cases, they'll do a better job ticketing you, than protecting you. The idea to give up guns is not because they're dangerous (cars are MORE dangerous, think about that one), so that if and when any uprising was to occur, we have nothing to fight back with.

You don't want outlaws or independent standing militias (or do you), but you do need to be a person of means. Honestly, if a person was intending to kill someone, they don't need a weapon. They can bludgeon you, drive over you, or stab you with the myriad of LEGAL knives in existence. Heck, my cutcos can saw through bone or metal, so a knife is a mute point, it has range, accuracy, and speed over the knife.

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I don't buy the idea that "this is the way the world is", because we create our own world, our own reality, our own problems and opportunities. We create the demons we try to fight. We arm them, supply them, and fund them. Then we seek to eradicate them by waging fake wars. War is an instrument of usurping wealth, nothing more. We're not fighting for ideals here, because we're the bigger, badder, dog anyways. If we were fighting for ideals, American Manufacturers during World WAR I & II would not have kept making products that our enemies used. If we were fighting for ideals, we wouldn't have created the enemies and terrorists we fight. Having these "problems" is convenient excuses to keep building war machines, to occupy new countries, to install democracy which steals power from the few and hands it to the many, to giving up our freedoms in return for ever-more protection, to make the ruling elite wealthier, and to play global chess matches with real lives.

We as the apathetic public ALLOW things to happen by NOT taking action. We'd much rather keep our ever-declining slice of land, than fight for the inches we keep losing. Like the wimp on the playground, we keep taking beatings, never learning the reason the beatings continute IS because we don't fight back. Rather, we try to run from the bully, which only fuels his desire to pummel us more because he knows it's working, and it's building his power up to the point where we may become completely defenseless.


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Vulpine

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I have several guns, 4 actually (two rifles, two shotguns), and I'm looking to get two more.

H&K USP tactical .45
AR-10A2 with 10T top-end in addition

Then I'm set. But I use mine for hunting, but they give a little peace of mind when they're around. There are bears and wolves where I camp, so a side arm would be a comfort seeing as how I camp alone often... I can't really afford to get gnawed on when I don't have cell phone reception.

I'm a fan of the shooting sports, so who knows, after I get my AR-10T, maybe I'll get into competetions.

I read a statistic that you are over 100 times more likely to die on the operating table by the hands of a surgeon than you are likely to die from a gunshot. Chew on that.

Guns are tools, not unlike a nail-gun, screwdriver, or box-cutter. You can use a nail-gun, screwdriver, or box-cutter to kill someone. So, the paranoia about guns is indeed silly. If a killer can't use a gun, he'll use another tool.
 

GirlCrazy

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Sold my gun collection and just kept the 12 guage for home defense.

I'll probably buy a snub-nose .38 for "home defense on the go". The .38 is small, lightweight, and will never jam. I figure if 5 shots at close range aren't enough mojo, then a glock wouldn't save me either. Hell, I might even go with a 2-shot derringer.
 

drummer

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I am only 15, but have been around guns forever. My dad has a Concealed Carry License and we go shooting a fair amount. When I become of age I will definitely carry. We have 5 handguns and 4 rifles.
All of this anti-gun stuff is stupid. People says it causes crime, but they don't realize is the people committing the crimes will get their guns illegally and not being able to sell firearms disarms the citizens.
 

S1NN3R

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I own and maintain several guns, partially due to my day job, and partially because I've always said "an armed society is a polite society".

I have two H&K USP40 Match pistols (one of which is pictured in my sig link), a USP9 Compact (my daily carry), an H&K PSG-1, a Sako TRG-42 in .338 Lapua, a Berrett M82A1, and a SPAZ semi-auto 12 ga. shotgun. All of France could show up at my door and not get in if I didn't want them to.

The Kennesaw, GA case is a good example of what gun ownership can do if the criminals know that every person they're likely to accost is armed. "After the law went into effect in 1982, crime against persons plummeted 74 percent compared to 1981, and fell another 45 percent in 1983 compared to 1982."
 

S1NN3R

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Exp said:
With guns it's so much easier to kill someone, because it's rather comfortable compared to drive over someone with a car or chase someone and stab them to death and deal with that stress.
Again, looking at Kennesaw, there have been three homicides since the mandatory gun law went in to effect in 1982. Two were commited with knives, and the last in 1997 was as a result of intoxication, where people form out of town were drunk and taking dares to shoot each other.

And most of the "ghetto" shootings that you refer to invole illegally obtained firearms to begin with. Any gun control short of a total ban would have little to no effect on those crimes.
 

Vulpine

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S!NN3R, I've been on the fence about the .40 or the .45, you obviously went with the .40... why? I think the .45 would be silly overkill, so I initially wanted the .40. Now after seeing someone else went with the .40, I would like to know how you like it and what prompted you to go that way versus .45.

I figured the .45 would slow down a bear with a little more authority, but, I would like to shoot it for "fun" sometimes, so now I'm back on the fence.
 

A-Unit

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Re:

Do you think that everyone can determine whether their life is in such grave danger that the killing of another person will save them? I don't think so.
With guns it's so much easier to kill someone, because it's rather comfortable compared to drive over someone with a car or chase someone and stab them to death and deal with that stress.
One shot to the head from a Magnum or a Deagle and that person is dead.
And what about kids who live in households with guns? If they know the gun is there, they're going to use it when they get angry, because it's so easy to just pull the trigger from far away.
To your points, as NON_gun toting owner at the moment...

I have no clue what your first question even means. Are you asking if someone can determine if their in danger such that they can determine that, and THEN pull the trigger? IMO, much like Ted Nugent's, ALL self-defense is warranted. However, in this New World Order that seeks disarmament of all citizens, pandering the idea that you CANNOT defend yourself is so that we throw away our guns, and the only ones with them are the standing armies and the few illegal guns of criminals.

You're right, it is easier to kill someone with a gun. Far easier. You can conceal it, carry it, and then just aim it. Even with a car, you can't assure a KILL. But that still doesn't NEGATE the fact that SELF-DEFENSE survives a purpose. Yet, all the brain-washing of TV shows, of the media, and of the myths will have you believe that a WEAPON automatically makes the OWNER violent.

A car carries 10 gallons of fuel at a minimum, making it a moving bomb.
Knives abound the homestead of millions, yet you rarely hear of death by stabbing (unless it was already going to happen, as in the case of gangs or robbery).

Bats are in most homes these days, too.

As are nail-guns, lead pipes, tire irons, golf clubs, and all other devices that can be weapons.

People well trained in martial arts aren't any more prone to violence, BUT they attract it since they're willing to STAND up for themselves, unlike most people that would tuck tail and run.

Your last point on kids is pure lunacy, in that PARENTS have the responsibility. Kids have access to MORE deadly things today than ever. And what of the fact that MOST kids 50-100 years ago HAD to know how to shoot. Was crime higher then? No. It was lower. That's when people had virtually NO locks on the home, NO alarm systems, NO car alarms, NO mace, and would leave their keys in the car or in the door. Even in maine they do it to some degree, because people hunt, and people know each other. They have respect.

The point to also remember is, you can police the criminals, but you can't 100% snuff them out, and as such THEY WILL FIND THEIR WAY TO BE ARMED. If normal, good people aren't, then they are at a decided DISADVANTAGE over the criminal AND the government. Once all weapons are squashed to a degree that few people have, enslavement by the state is all but imminent. Our forefathers KNEW why they had them. Fighting is one piece of it, but beyond that, you still need one.

If you have kids, LOCK it up. The stories you hear about are fools not taking precautions. You have kids, LOCK IT UP. My uncle has 3 kids, and several guns. He taught them to shoot, to be responsible to a fault, and locked them up early on so no one could get them.

Good people will do good.
Bad people will do bad.

By over regulating the bad, you penalize the good, instead of EMPOWERING them to help SNUFF out the bad elements.

And again, you can try to get rid of guns, but you're on disarming the good people, and empowering the bad people with a decided advantage to find more people in society WITHOUT any sort of self defense.


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S1NN3R

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Vulpine said:
S!NN3R, I've been on the fence about the .40 or the .45, you obviously went with the .40... why? I think the .45 would be silly overkill, so I initially wanted the .40. Now after seeing someone else went with the .40, I would like to know how you like it and what prompted you to go that way versus .45.

I figured the .45 would slow down a bear with a little more authority, but, I would like to shoot it for "fun" sometimes, so now I'm back on the fence.
I went with 40 for two reasons, first the Match USPs are out of production, so finding one in any caliber is tricky, much less finding a matching pair. The 40s came up first, so I got those.

The second reason that I didn't buy .45 for these or any other USP is that the 45 slide and frame are specific to 45. With the other factory versions, I can run four different calibers with just a barrel and mag change, 9mm, .357 SIG, 40S&W, and .400 CorBon, the slide and frame accept all of those.

If you're looking into USPs, I have heard that the USP40 full-frame stock barrel has some problems that the 9 and 45 don't have. As far as stopping power, modifying what GirlCrazy said, if 13 rounds of 40 aren't enough, 10 rounds of 45 probably won't be enough either. As a matter of fact, just identifying that you are armed (regardless of caliber) will diffuse most situations anyhow. I don't know about bears, but I've been hit with a 9mm, and it stopped me just as fast as a .45 would have.
 

Shiftkey

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I'm in favor of gun rights, but I don't own a gun out of paranoia. In order for me to get a gun legaly I'd have to get a permit and be on record, which would make me stand out as a potential target for procescution when this country turns into a police state.

I am, however, familiar with how to use different guns (shotguns, 22 cal rifles, 50 cal rifles, 9 mm handguns, even an ak 47, to name a few) from my experience in scouts when I was younger.
 

S1NN3R

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Exp said:
However, do you think that the mandatory gun law would be successful in let's say.... LA or NY, with an extremely higher population
Not at all. I think mandatory gun laws in heavily populated areas are nearly as stupid as gun bans in those same areas.

Kennesaw is a good model however, of what happens to crime rates when criminals know that a person that they wish to commit a crime against will be armed.

Let's look at this from the point of view of someone involved. If you are a criminal and you want a gun to commit a crime, you will get one however you need to, after all, you are a criminal, breaking laws is what you do. Breaking one more law to get a gun is not going to phase you. As a criminal, you know that most of the people that you are going to commit crimes against are law abiding citizens. Now, if you know that these people likely obey the law, and that there is a law against them owning guns, them you can pretty much assume that you with be in a greater position of power when you commit that crime, since you will have the gun and they will not. This will probably make you more likely to commit crimes if you know you hold the position of power. Now, let's say that you know every citizen in a certain place is required to have a gun. You lose your position of power, since you are on equal footing with everyone else.

Take this down to a more reasonable level. Heavy gun restrictions and fewer gun restrictions affect things the same way. If you know it's harder for a citizen to own a gun, then you assume the power again. If you know it's easier and therefore more likely for a citizen to be armed, then you will probably be much more selective in who you commit crimes against. Think of it like when you're in a bar, drunk and talking sh!t to people. Are you going to mouth off to the guy half your size, or are going to mouth off to the UFC fighter? That's an easy one, huh? The more likely you are to suffer for your desicions, the more likely you are to not make those bad choices.

As far as regular civvies being armed and causing more problems, I just don't see it. I am trained in five martial arts styles, Jeet Kun Do, Kenjutsu, Kobudo, Wing Chun, and Kateda. I could probably take down 98% of the people walking on the street. That doesn't make me more likely to do so. It just gives me the knowledge that if someone does attempt something, I am pretty secure. I think that with proper training more guns in the hands of citizens would reduce crime rates considerably without increasing accidental injuries or spur of teh moment crimes. And by proper training, I mean not only how to use a gun, but when and why, plus the consequences of doing so whether you're in the right or the wrong.
 

manuva

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What makes Americans so paranoid?
 

S1NN3R

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Do not be too easy. If you are too easy to get, she will not want you. If you are too easy to keep, she will lose interest in you. If you are too easy to control, she will not respect you.

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diplomatic_lies

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I live in Australia, where guns are illegal (and gun licences are hard to obtain).

Ironically, Australia has far less crime than the US (both in real numbers, and per capita). School shootings are far less, murder statistics are lower, and even petty crime is lower. Even the government is friendlier to its people than the US government. (For one thing, the government's never shot our own students, like the US did in the 70s).

As for being invaded by enemy troops...no country in the world has the naval capability to invade Australia, except the US (more irony!).

I think the problem with the US is their crappy attitudes towards each other, not because of gun ownership.
 

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I own and carry a gun everyday. My seecamp is like my girlfriend.

I also live in Georgia and I laugh at how pro gun people act as if the madatory gun law in Kennesaw is the reason for their low homicide rate. The cultural and economic make up of Kennesaw gives a better clue as to why that (redneck) city has a low homicide rate.

I'm sure that Alpharetta, GA has a crime rate as low or lower than Kennesaw. I've lived in both places and think that it is faulty thinking to believe that the mandatory gun law is the sole reason for such low crime rates.
 

SELF-MASTERY

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BTW America is not a dangerous place to live. Do not let anyone fool you (the media) the crime rate has been going down steady since the 80's. I find that isolated suburban/ rural people (whites) fear for their safety more than people who live in the hoods of America who experience violence daily. Turn off the news and burn the newspapers, for I can tell you what is going to happen everyday until the end of man: People will lie, steal, cheat, and kill.

The end.

-- That is the history of man.
 

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Vulpine said:
I read a statistic that you are over 100 times more likely to die on the operating table by the hands of a surgeon than you are likely to die from a gunshot. Chew on that.
that can't possibly be true. that is the most ridiculous "statistic" I've ever heard.
 

Do not be too easy. If you are too easy to get, she will not want you. If you are too easy to keep, she will lose interest in you. If you are too easy to control, she will not respect you.

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