Gun Ownership.

Mitch_Mustain

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Yeah I got a few guns in my closet. I'm not gonna disclose specifically what i got but I do for skill. I go shooting over my friends' land and go 4-wheelin and sh*t.

But for self defense, I dont think I live in an area of my town where I'm prone to get robbed anytime soon.
 

S1NN3R

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SELF-MASTERY said:
I'm sure that Alpharetta, GA has a crime rate as low or lower than Kennesaw. I've lived in both places and think that it is faulty thinking to believe that the mandatory gun law is the sole reason for such low crime rates.
I would be inclined to agree with you except for this fact.....
After the law went into effect in 1982, crime against persons plummeted 74 percent compared to 1981, and fell another 45 percent in 1983 compared to 1982.
I'm sure that the size and social make-up of Kennesaw had plenty to do with their low crime rates to begin with, but when crime rates drop so dramatically immediately following the passing of a certain law, you would be daft to think that said law had nothing to do with it.

And actually, Alpharetta had considerably higher crime rates during the last tabulation in 2004, except for murders, but when two towns have one each, the town with the lower population is obviously going to be rated higher in that particular category.

So given the similar demographics and similar size of both towns, what do you suppose could be a large factor in Kennesaw's much lower crime rates? Hmm?

http://alpharetta.areaconnect.com/crime/compare.htm?c1=Alpharetta&s1=GA&c2=kennesaw&s2=GA
 

[S]alvatore

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Hmmm if anyone is familiar with the SWIM concept....

SWIM used to own a gun illegally when they used to be involved in the exotic substance business, it was a Glock 26 9mm. It cost SWIM an arm and a leg at the time, as firearms are very hard to come by in the area that surrounds me, unless you know some of the bigger fish (Asians, Italian Mob etc). SWIM never had to use it against anyone, and if he did he would have been fu<ked. SWIM now regrets ever being so stupid as to take that risk.
 

S1NN3R

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Are you familiar with the "I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6" concept?
 

manuva

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S1NN3R said:
Are you familiar with the "I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6" concept?
Again, why so paranoid?

Who's hunting you down?
 

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Bible_Belt

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I worked with a guy who had just gotten out of state prison after a long career as a burglar. He would rob cops' houses, because cops are always gun nuts, and guns sell easily. His method was to knock on the door in the middle of the day. If no one answered, he kicked in the door. Cash and guns were all he would steal. Everything else was too hard to re-sell.

My point with this story is that one should not let their neighbors know him as "the guy with all the guns' or else eventually the local thieves will hear, too. Usually they are strung out on coke or meth and have no fear of getting shot.
 

Tomatoes

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I live in the UK.....To own a gun without a full licence will get you a 2 year jail sentance. Althought i do live near Nottingham which has the highest gun crime in the UK. :nono:

Still guns being illegal works better. Wouldnt work in the states thow. They have been legal to long.
 

A-Unit

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Re:

Nice photo.

___________________

There isn't an ABSOLUTE answer to the right/wrong conclusion here. It won't be 100% gun ownership yields NO crime, yields a just and honest government, yields a defendable populace, etc, etc.

However, the POSITIVE (though guns are somewhat of a negative attractor) is that...

1. People have SOME sort of self defense mechanism, BEYOND mace, at least giving them a fighting change should they be accosted.
2. Stupid little shyt bag teens who film the beatings of people, accost clerks, and generally cause disarray would disappear, as I wouldn't hesitate to put a bullet in his knee, or arms.
3. Your home is protected. While a dog, an alarm, and a door HELP, if someone ever wanted in, you're probably not going to be alive to tell about it, or recup your things.
4. If and when the "police state" befalls America, and in turn would have drastic consequences for the world, the populace can at least arm themselves, even if we are outdueled by our own technology that we've paid for through tax dollars.

"You buy a parachute before you need it."
"You buy life insurance before you need it."
"You buy car insurance before you need it."
"You buy health insurance before you need it."

I don't see a difference with the gun. But people have to ask themselves, WHAT does this represent. To some, who've been brainwashed, they see the negative images on the TV, they see everything it has been told stand for by the media, they recall negative stories, etc. Much like women though, your INITIAL introduction to GUNS will ultimately determine your viewpoint on them and their benefit or detriment to society. In my case, I did it for target practice, and fun, shooting cans and targets. I learned properly at a young age. I RESPECT guns, and I never lose that respect. Other's only view them as WEAPONS, yet, ALL things can be a weapon, as mentioned.

Heck, Gasoline could be thrown anywhere and set homes ablaze. That might not BE fast, but it sure does work, and for a measly 3 bucks, you buy a gallong, and chuck it somewhere. WEAPONS are all around you. Criminals can, will, and do use them because a WEAPON is only a means to AN END, a gun does it fastest. A criminal will do what a criminal will do. However, MOST citizens aren't well trained enough to handle anything around them. They wouldn't think if need be to use a tire iron, their hands in a certain way, or a household item, except a knife.

This gets back to the idea that over 200 years of society has weaned the true spirit of people out. They're so docile and easily trusting. They won't trust a cold caller, or their neighbors, but they IMMEDIATELY trust the government and all they do. They even trust the media, when it was WELL known 200 years ago, that the media and government lied then. Compound their capabilities over 200 years and there are some massive lies as well as massive potential cover-ups. And people just accept it as a way of life, a certain natural order of things. I don't believe it was meant to be that way. We each, have a right to life and honesty, REGARDLESS of our lot in life, it's just up to the individual to SEIZE that right and exercise. We have a right to truth, just because if you're an ALPHA, or wealthy, doesn't grant you the right to hide or cover-up material information. It isn't a NATURAL order, that's merely what they use to usurp power.

I will and shall exercise my right to bear arms until such point they try to take it from my dead hands. The constitution, and the CONSTITUTION alone is the law of the land. Government officials should FEAR the public, not the other way around.


A-Unit
 

Vulpine

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A-Unit said:
I will and shall exercise my right to bear arms until such point they try to take it from my dead hands. The constitution, and the CONSTITUTION alone is the law of the land. Government officials should FEAR the public, not the other way around.
Amen.

You want my guns? Come and take them.

What's that? I'm sorry, you'll have to use the megaphone, you're too far away to hear. Hey I know, come out in the open and maybe I can read your lips through the scope here.
 

sstype

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I rep the K-Town. The town is home to one of the largest and busiest commercial strips in metro atlanta, probably Georgia. Not redneck by any means. The people here are generally more conservative leaning but are for the most part educated and RATIONAL.

One thing however, the mandatory gun law is not by any means enforced by the city. However it does send a clear message to robbers, if youre gonna invade someones house, chances are they gonna have a gun.

I heard recently that D.C. was on the brink of a crime emergency with the explosion of homocide rates in the past months. As far as I remember DC has some of the strictest gun laws in the country.
 

S1NN3R

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Tomatoes said:
Still guns being illegal works better. Wouldnt work in the states thow. They have been legal to long.
From the BBC.....
It is true that in contrast to Britain's tight gun restrictions, half of American households have firearms, and 33 states now permit law-abiding citizens to carry concealed weapons.

But despite, or because, of this, violent crime in America has been plummeting for 10 consecutive years, even as British violence has been rising. By 1995 English rates of violent crime were already far higher than America's for every major violent crime except murder and rape.

You are now six times more likely to be mugged in London than New York.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/2656875.stm

From 1991 to 1995, crimes against the person in England’s inner cities increased 91 percent. And in the four years from 1997 to 2001, the rate of violent crime more than doubled. Your chances of being mugged in London are now six times greater than in New York. England’s rates of assault, robbery, and burglary are far higher than America’s, and 53 percent of English burglaries occur while occupants are at home, compared with 13 percent in the U.S., where burglars admit to fearing armed homeowners more than the police. In a United Nations study of crime in 18 developed nations published in July, England and Wales led the Western world’s crime league, with nearly 55 crimes per 100 people.
http://www.reason.com/0211/fe.jm.gun.shtml

From that same page, here are two of England's most ridiculous cases involving those DEFENDING themselves being prosecuted for doing so.

• In 1994 an English homeowner, armed with a toy gun, managed to detain two burglars who had broken into his house while he called the police. When the officers arrived, they arrested the homeowner for using an imitation gun to threaten or intimidate. In a similar incident the following year, when an elderly woman fired a toy cap pistol to drive off a group of youths who were threatening her, she was arrested for putting someone in fear. Now the police are pressing Parliament to make imitation guns illegal.

• In 1999 Tony Martin, a 55-year-old Norfolk farmer living alone in a shabby farmhouse, awakened to the sound of breaking glass as two burglars, both with long criminal records, burst into his home. He had been robbed six times before, and his village, like 70 percent of rural English communities, had no police presence. He sneaked downstairs with a shotgun and shot at the intruders. Martin received life in prison for killing one burglar, 10 years for wounding the second, and a year for having an unregistered shotgun. The wounded burglar, having served 18 months of a three-year sentence, is now free and has been granted £5,000 of legal assistance to sue Martin.
And for those who cite England's lower murder rate.....
The murder rates of the U.S. and U.K. are also affected by differences in the way each counts homicides. The FBI asks police to list every homicide as murder, even if the case isn’t subsequently prosecuted or proceeds on a lesser charge, making the U.S. numbers as high as possible. By contrast, the English police "massage down" the homicide statistics, tracking each case through the courts and removing it if it is reduced to a lesser charge or determined to be an accident or self-defense, making the English numbers as low as possible.
And it just goes on and on.....
USA Today said:
Since Australia's 1996 laws banning most guns and making it a crime to use a gun defensively, armed robberies rose by 51%, unarmed robberies by 37%, assaults by 24% and kidnappings by 43%. While murders fell by 3%, manslaughter rose by 16%
The contrast between the criminal violence rates in the United States and in Canada is dramatic," says Canadian criminologist Gary Mauser in 2003. "Over the past decade, the rate of violent crime in Canada has increased while in the United States the violent crime rate has plummeted."
BBC News said:
Handgun crime in the United Kingdom rose by 40% in the two years after it passed its draconian gun ban in 1997
You are more likely to be mugged in England than in the United States," stated the Reuters news agency in summarizing the study. "The rate of robbery is now 1.4 times higher in England and Wales than in the United States, and the British burglary rate is nearly double America's."6 The murder rate in the United States is reportedly higher than in England, but according to the DOJ study, "the difference between the [murder rates in the] two countries has narrowed over the past 16 years."
The United Nations confirmed these results in 2000 when it reported that the crime rate in England is higher than the crime rates of 16 other industrialized nations, including the United States
Anyone else want to pretend that gun bans work?
 

A-Unit

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Re:

Prohibition of Alcohol had only created the underground speak easys, bathtub gin, and the perfect opportunity for the mob to get rich.

Illegalization of drugs, ranging from POT to hardcore substances only adds a criminal element, because those who want will. It drives profits insanely high, motivating those who would seek to profit off it. The war toward anything only generates MORE of that negativity we seek. No matter how many law enforcement officers we throw at something, it WILL NEVER come close to an armed, educated, defensible, enlightened, aware, and intelligent public. Never. You can't afford the kind of standing army, cops, surveillance, training, and funding that you can when the populace steps up and takes control of life, instead of allowing someone else to do it. And that's just it.

Teen pregnancy has probably leveled off, but promiscuity is on the rise. We owe any thanks to a leveling off (i don't have stats on it, nor am i looking) to abortion and protection. However, more kids, at younger ages are engaging in sexual behavior. Why?

Because anytime something new and potentially dangerous develops we act as if it's the end of the world and ATTACK it. All parents forbid such activities, so it only invites the child/teen to discover more about it. It's natural, and yet stupid of parents.

BY now siding with their kids, parents alienate them when the kids will need them most. On several occasions my cousin needed me, and for fear of reprisal from his parents, he did not tell them. Fortunately they weren't major issues like pregnancy or drinking, but they were worthy enough of trust from his parents, that so few teens these days get. It isn't like training a dog. You can't just say no and end it. And repeatedly no won't work either.

I'm glad sinner posted the numbers and commentary on it. We all know there's more to support this stance, yet it's not needed. An intelligent person can see it makes sense. Think of early farmer, or think of folk living in the country, where cops can't get to the scene as quickly. My uncle lives in Maine. If he were accosted and being broken in to, the cops WOULD Never get there in time to prevent any harm. NEVER. The shear presence alone should give you comfort that if you can't wait to law enforcement arrives, you're not totally fawked. That, and there's the element that people MUST have the right to arm and defend themselves from a tyrannical government, only we've gotten so lax and fat, people don't care. It's more about finding the next EMOTIONAL high or the next MATERIAL possession to complete you, than it is about actual LIFE.

Just because the US has a hyper aggressive foreign policy DOES not mean those "patriots" within the US agree with it. The gun ownership policy of its citizens is in no way similar to the agressive PRO war tactics of our standing army. Even the army doesn't wholeheartedly agree. When I ran into an ex solider and asked her about her president, she showed me the card that the armed forces defend THE CONSTITUTION, even if they are manipulated and misused in ways that contradict that oath. They don't defend anything BUT the constitution, and as such, I have great respect for them. They are but a tool, and instrument, and have been misused by the Corporate Ruling Elite as tool of profit for hire, from the army to black ops, the real reasons are to protect the major asset holders of the US, to extract profits, to balance the economy, and further our interests for our "shareholders" in the future.


Nice post,


A-Unit
 

GirlCrazy

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The only true weapon is the human mind itself. Until you ban that, there will always be somebody with the capability / tools to do you harm.

Until the day comes when humans are safe from each other, I'm gonna own a gun, as well as other implements of violence: martial arts weapons, ghurka knives, etc. Not for any altruistic reasons like defending the constitution either. I'm a gun owner out of the pure selfish desire to protect my family and property (yes, even the chihuahua).
 

Shiftkey

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Excelent post Sinner. I'm going to bookmark this to use your reply in future debates.
 

diplomatic_lies

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Regardless of these "statistics", the fact remains that the United States is one of the most crime-ridden, dangerous First World nations. Many countries WITHOUT gun ownership are much safer than the US.

By the way, wasn't an American gun-toting vigilant group recently arrested for harrassing and threatening their fellow citizens?
 

S1NN3R

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Yes, we should ignore "statistics" and just go off of what we want to think instead. Actual recorded crime rates shouldn't mean as much as "gut feeling".

The fact that Scotland, England and Wales (all countries with gun bans) top the ENTIRE DEVELOPED WORLD for violent assaults doesn't mean anything. The fact that you are three times more likely to be assaulted in Scotland that you are in America is totally meaningless. Hearing that according to the UN, America is only #8 on the "Most Violent Countries List" while the UK is #6, doesn't mean that the UK is more violent, I guess. The fact that New Zealand is #2, Finland is #3, and Denmark is #4, all despite stringent gun laws, doesn't mean jack either, right?

Facts and statistics are soooooo stupid.
 

A-Unit

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Re:

The first enemy to our right to bearing 'arms' is the Government. They don't want it. They want you to give up most of your abilities, rights, and responsibilities to the GOV, like an over-bearing father. If you chuck away your guns, should there ever be a reprisal, an overthrow of the current political system, EVERYBODY is defenseless. So it would follow logically that 99.9% of the information, stats, and arguements you hear on TV are bent TOWARD bringing about a docile acquiesence to a gun-ban.

Think about it, for one second. Clear your mind. OF all the things put on TV, on mainstream news, why is that news? Why is a rape 50 miles away news? Why is a fire news?

Wouldn't news be anything of VALUE to your existence? Not being careless, though it will appear that way, someone being raped is sad, but it has no bearing on my life, UNLESS that rapist is my family member or living next door. To which end, if my family or loved ones are properly taught defense techniques AND allowed to carry or own a weapon, it's LESS likely that this would happen. But rapists, like criminals, prey on the weak and young.

I only watch the news for weather, and as much as they screw up in NE, they're MORE right and truthful than the anchors and reporters who spin off negative stories. I rarely find the news offers objective, critical commentary. How many people find DIRT on the President, or on the War, or interview counter opinions on being in Iraq? There's thousands of blogs written by ACTUAL soldiers bemoaning our war, our illegal war. I've met several myself. Isn't the news meant to OFFER at least BOTH sides of the debate, so that people can THINK for themselves? Instead, like schools, they provide USELESS information to hold YOU back from your potential, from the truth, and to mind control people. Most don't think it, because they never question reality or their beliefs.


_____________________________

There's more to our penchant for violence. One part of it is being an advanced nation. We're top maslow's hierarchy of needs now, and people mainly seek pleasures, excitement. That's also what's "fed" to most people. And while we do have choices, it's EVERYWHERE, from a young age no less. Video games, tv, magazines, the news, tv shows, a large % of books. It's glamorized.

In most cases, it's like viewing a bunch of rats, given all the possible chemicals and injections to manipulate behavior, and then seeing how they act and react. Not ALL of us are that way, but MOST Americans are that way. Perhaps it is weaned out of us by the time we are seniors. Or perhaps the current and newer generations habor those tendencies MORE. After JFK's assassination, it was said the US changed, and the last of the great Presidents was gone. I do believe that. What he embodied is beyond just what a President did or does, it's how he was as person, regardless of his off the cuff affairs. Every President does, whether we know about it is a question of how badly those "in the know" want to damage the President's image.



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