Girl wants to move slowly...

[Peaks&Valleys]

Do women ever want to take it slow with Ryan Gosling?

*face palm*

Nismo?

Yes, they do, if they're at the same level as him or above him. i.e. another movie star or a model. There's plenty of good looking movie stars out there that don't have game, just look at some of their wives.

That analogy has a meaning to it, but, like most of them, it's overused. It was a good effort though.

 

[ThunderMaverick]

Well Zarky, think I've just got a different style than you.

I see what you're getting at while using the car analogy. But, there's one problem, it's A$$ backwards. The car salesman should be the guy, and the girl should be the possible customer.

I'll fix it for you:

The guy's trying to sell her a car.... i.e. his d1ck. And if he starts getting upset because she won't make a decision, she'll just go to the next lot over. Why not? she hasn't invested anything yet, she was just kicking tires, and this car salesman came out and started being a d1ck, .... The guy at the next lot over plays a different game, instead, he'll smooth talk her, and warm her up to the idea. Sometimes acting indifferent to her buying it....because he really doesn't care if she wants it or not....he's got plenty of other buyers waiting. THEN, in her mind, she realizes she better get that car....before someone else does! Now she wants it, and it's her decision...... "he didn't really even try to sell me that car, he didn't care if I bought it or not. There must be value there, I'm probably getting it for a steal. I'll even pay a little more if he tries to bump the price because of all these other buyers."

See the difference? In one scenario she's going home uneasy about her purchase and possibly having second thoughts, because she feels she got pushed or bullied into the whole deal, it's not sitting right with her......In scenario #2 she's going home glowing with a big smile on her face....she just came up, and she's 100% satisfied and is already on the phones with her friends bragging about it....one of them is even asking if she can take it for a drive....."well, I guess, as long as I'm there with you of course."

No. Just no. In this situation (I can't even believe I'm expanding on this goofy analogy) SHE set the terms and he was to agree or disagree with it. She set the price, not him. HE decided to walk out of the lot and she came back changing the price. There's no her kicking tires.

Okay, let's say she was the buyer, just "kicking tires". In this situation she would be telling the dealer "I want to buy the car, but I want to wait until next week". You know what the dealer would say? "Of course, no problem." He wouldn't outright say "I have other customers who want cars at a reasonable price", but he would take other customers, yes? The difference between this whole stupid car lot analogy is that the buyer knows the dealer isn't going to just wait for her sale while others come into the lot. She knows the dealer has options.

Ugh, whatever.

THIS ANALOGY SUCKS! I have a story of resistance and me acting a bit annoyed by it.

This girl I went out with from my work years ago. Knew she was freaky and got around. We were vibing and the sexual chemistry was incredible. We're outside of a club and we're showing ID. As I opened my wallet a condom fell out. Me, the bouncer and the girl were kinda quiet for a few seconds, then kinda laughed at it. It was embarrassing, but I laughed and brushed it off.

Later on while we were sitting at a table she says "the condom thing was kinda silly" and I said "It's always good to be prepared. She then said:

Her: We're not gonna have sex tonight. I hope you know that.
Me: You get to determine that?
Her: Yup.
Me: Well what if you do want to have sex but I don't?
Her: Yeah, right. All guys want to have sex.
Me: I'm not "all guys".

The next thing I said shifted the frame and changed the whole dynamic of the date:

Me: I do want to have sex, sure, But I might not even like you by the end of the night. Let's just have fun and see where it goes.

She was surprised and taken down a notch. What followed was a lot of dirty dancing a full night of f*cking at her place down the street.

The point is, I showed annoyance at her childish terms and made it clear that I wasn't playing that game. I pretty much said if we wanted to have sex (just sex) it would be pretty stupid not to.

It's happened a few other times, but that was the strongest example of it. Other times it was more playful and sarcastic, but her attitude about it set me off. lol

When someone questions your worth, back it up with passion. Conviction. They'll come around.


Edit: This thread actually reminds me of a scene from Black Dynamite. He gets this girl back to his place and she starts saying "I hope you don't think you're gonna get any of this cookie, bla bla bla" He cuts her off and says

"It can be the sheets or the streets it don't
mean no never mind. That's your bad, baby,
you can go or you can come. Can you dig it?

They banged.

 

[Zunder]

So....are you saying I'm beta for thinking that way?

Yep.

 

[Zunder]

Women who are interested in you won't confuse you, nor will they throw out mixed signals.

100% correct.

 

[Zunder]

No one is saying there's anything wrong with a girl not putting out on the first date.

The bullsh!t detector went off when she said her experiences on guys not understanding no. This girl is NOW making the OP pay for past bad decisions when she was pumped and dumped or gave her snatch away for free. S|ut justification.

She decided to HER RULES on when sex will be occurring, so when OP agreed to it, she controls not only sex, but the relationship. He is now a puppet with her dangling the sex cord. It was perfectly executed to play the victim card which many men fall for. This is where you take back control of the relationship progress.

I've have bad experiences in the past, I want to move slow.
That's fine, I have other options.

If you agree with her, you give her all the power.
If you agree with her, pull back and give her little attention, it reaffirms her belief that you just want sex.
If you agree with her, say you have other options and leave it at that, her hamster will be on 10 pills of ecstasy.

She either plays by your rules or you walk away. Don't ever be a slave to pvssy.

And THIS!! Great post mate.

I would not even bother with a pump and dump with this one.

 

[BeDJ]

During the ride, she kept saying she was hungry. She was drinking on an empty stomach. Feeding her would waste all the escalation efforts. I picked up some drinks and a bag of chips for her. 2 shots and 10 minutes on my futon we were making out. I move her to the bed.

My rule is No Sex on the first date.
That's fine, we can do everything except that
Okeeee
(Dumbass)

We fvcked 2 hours of meeting each other.

(Except from Date Report: Broken Rule)
http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=208694

As much as I and other members want to agree with Peaks&Valleys, it's simply not a viable strategy to not push for sex. It's sunshine and rainbows, it's great in theory that when you build that intimacy and reap the rewards of the vast harvest. However, dating does not work like that. Women do not work like that. They are unpredictable, the tornado can come a week from your harvest. You will lose your investment and leave you devastated cursing to the gods.

In addition, Sex is NOT always under her condition. What that translates to is: "Women do not enjoy sex." That's like saying cougars don't pounce, women don't get drunk and it's federal law for women to be on the pill. You are not accepting reality, but what you have been brainwashed to believe -

Women are the prize to be won.

That's why men are frustrated today, they are competing against one another in order to deem themselves worthy of that prized possession. Your fellow man will fvck you over to white knight his way into some imaginary panties. This hoax that women do not enjoy sex gives them the power over men's desires. Once you accept and educate men that women enjoy sex, pvssy is abundant and comradery among men will return.

 

[Peaks&Valleys]

During the ride, she kept saying she was hungry. She was drinking on an empty stomach. Feeding her would waste all the escalation efforts. I picked up some drinks and a bag of chips for her. 2 shots and 10 minutes on my futon we were making out. I move her to the bed.

My rule is No Sex on the first date.
That's fine, we can do everything except that
Okeeee
(Dumbass)

We fvcked 2 hours of meeting each other.

(Except from Date Report: Broken Rule)
http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=208694

Two questions I already know the answer to.

Did you see her again?

and/or

Did you want to see her again?

So she was a pump and dump, well played.

Sex is NOT always under her condition. What that translates to is: "Women do not enjoy sex."

I heard a quote rather recently that I think fits well here: "women are the gate keepers of sex, while men are the gatekeepers of relationships."

Yes it is under her condition, the smart women know this, and yes, women do enjoy sex (with me anyways )

A quality woman will rarely give it up on the first meeting because she would need to qualify you before she has sex with you. Even, if she wants to. They have the self discipline to hold off. Just like us guys need to have the self discipline not to say: "I really, really like you, will you be my girlfriend??" But the quality women will also not use it as a carrot. Why? Because they have something else to offer besides sex. Also, they know the quality men aren't going to wait around too long.

Simple as that.

 

[tryst type]

You know I've noticed I run into this a lot with online dating. What's funny is it's generally from women who give off that "I'm an easy lay" vibe. I think they're just trying to justify their actions or feel better about themselves because I always just passively agree and continue advancing.

My favorite thing that usually comes next is "I can't believe I did that with you so soon I'm never like this" yeah OK, these women are generally on multiple dates and meeting tons of guys online. But hey whatever makes them sleep better at night I suppose.

I think when dealing with this it's always best to gauge her interest level, sure some might just be throwing that out to gain control or even keep you around for attention but in my experience it's not too difficult to figure out her true intentions.

 

[Epimanes]

Btw. I didn't read entire thread just first page.

The bottom line with women who want to move slowly is that they are risking getting pregnant and taking that into consideration. They WANT to fvck but they don't want to get preggo so they want to evaluate the relationship and you to see if its worth that risk.

You can say you wear condoms and she can be on the pill or whatever.. Its not fool proof.. She still has a marginal chance of getting preggo if you bang her. You could pump and dump then disappear and if she ended up preggo from you, you just ruined her chances by a lot to find someone to settle down with. Any woman who values herself will have this thought process and as men you should respect it and if your gunna fvck her be prepared to man up if you knock her up. That is all. Otherwise don't stick it in and don't expect her to let you.

Epi

 

[Bokanovsky]

You can say you wear condoms and she can be on the pill or whatever.. Its not fool proof.. She still has a marginal chance of getting preggo if you bang her.

She also has a marginal chance of:

1) Dying in a car accident on her way to work
2) Dying in a plane crash when going on vacation
3) Dying in a house fire while she's asleep
4) Getting shot in a movie theatre by some crazy fvck
5) Getting raped by a gang of escaped convicts when she goes out for some ice cream
6) etc., etc.

Does that make her avoid driving, flying, sleeping and going to the movies or for ice cream? Of course not. A woman who wants to take things slow is simply trying to control the frame. That's all there is to it.

 

[Epimanes]

I agree... Its not logical. But it is what it is. Just like a woman shouldn't expect a guy to financially support her and men fear to even begin doing that and should avoid doing so until he agrees to marry her. Until then she should be sefl sufficient and on her own. Would be rediculas for a woman to say "no sex til you support me for a while first" is no different than a man saying no financial support until you sex me up for a few months. Both are huge risks and shouldn't be taken so lightly. And rightly so.

 

[Peaks&Valleys]

She also has a marginal chance of:

1) Dying in a car accident on her way to work
2) Dying in a plane crash when going on vacation
3) Dying in a house fire while she's asleep
4) Getting shot in a movie theatre by some crazy fvck
5) Getting raped by a gang of escaped convicts when she goes out for some ice cream
6) etc., etc.

Does that make her avoid driving, flying, sleeping and going to the movies or for ice cream? Of course not. A woman who wants to take things slow is simply trying to control the frame. That's all there is to it.

I don't know if you're one of these guys. But I hear a lot on here about how a chick's sexual history matters when it comes to an LTR. I more or less agree So, that being said, if a chick's only banged 1 or 2 guys before, you don't think she might try and make you wait a few dates? What about those guys who are looking for virgins. Well, sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but unless the two of you are still in High School, or you fall upon a lucky star, these virgens might take a little bit of time and effort.

 

[BeDJ]

The bottom line with women who want to move slowly is that they are risking getting pregnant and taking that into consideration. They WANT to fvck but they don't want to get preggo so they want to evaluate the relationship and you to see if its worth that risk.

Did you just use pregnancy as a deterrent from sex? That's fvcking gay, even coming from you.

Two questions I already know the answer to.

Did you see her again?

and/or

Did you want to see her again?

So she was a pump and dump, well played.


I heard a quote rather recently that I think fits well here: "women are the gate keepers of sex, while men are the gatekeepers of relationships."

Yes it is under her condition, the smart women know this, and yes, women do enjoy sex (with me anyways )

A quality woman will rarely give it up on the first meeting because she would need to qualify you before she has sex with you. Even, if she wants to. They have the self discipline to hold off. Just like us guys need to have the self discipline not to say: "I really, really like you, will you be my girlfriend??" But the quality women will also not use it as a carrot. Why? Because they have something else to offer besides sex. Also, they know the quality men aren't going to wait around too long.

Simple as that.

We dated for a few days.

The gatekeeper argument holds NO weight in regards to quality. If a man withholds commitment (like me ) does that make him higher quality? Sex is an emotional bond. Relationship is a logical one.

I don't know if you're one of these guys. But I hear a lot on here about how a chick's sexual history matters when it comes to an LTR. I more or less agree So, that being said, if a chick's only banged 1 or 2 guys before, you don't think she might try and make you wait a few dates? What about those guys who are looking for virgins. Well, sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but unless the two of you are still in High School, or you fall upon a lucky star, these virgens might take a little bit of time and effort.

So you wait for sex and screen her, only to find out she is a s|ut that would have put out on the first date all along?

 

[Peaks&Valleys]

The gatekeeper argument holds NO weight in regards to quality. If a man withholds commitment (like me ) does that make him higher quality?

Well, if he holds out on a relationship because he has other options and he's still trying to qualify her, then yes, I believe it makes him higher quality.

Sex is an emotional bond. Relationship is a logical one.

Sex is an emotinal bond? Never thought I'd see the day. Relationship can be too, it's an emotional commitment. You ever see a chick jump up down smiling from ear to ear because a guy asked her to marry him?

So you wait for sex and screen her, only to find out she is a s|ut that would have put out on the first date all along?

Well, then what would you lose out on? Sex with a slvt. Versus the alternative, an LTR with a quality chick. I guess some of this boils down to what's most important to you. An LTR or just bangs. Some guys don't want to wait, they don't care, they'd rather go the path of least resistance, like we've talked about earlier. Some guys though, are making effort to get into that LTR. Some guys, like me, don't know what the fvck they want or where they're going. And sometimes things just work out in one way or another. It all comes natural and just falls into place. But if that happened all the time, then none of us would be here.

I feel you can go for the bang, and should go for the bang. We're men, that's what we do. BUT, if you get turned down for the bang, then that's why I see it as a good thing sometimes. If I get turned down by a 5.5 and I know it's because she just wants to string me along, while she's banging ten other dudes on the side, then that's when I'll next the $hit out of her. But if I get turned down by an 8, because she wants to wait for the sake of waiting (as I understand at the time), but still see me again....then hey, maybe I have something here. Let's see where this leads to.

 

[Epimanes]

Did you just use pregnancy as a deterrent from sex? That's fvcking gay, even coming from you.

And why isn't it?

 

[BeDJ]

Well, if he holds out on a relationship because he has other options and he's still trying to qualify her, then yes, I believe it makes him higher quality.

Sex is an emotinal bond? Never thought I'd see the day. Relationship can be too, it's an emotional commitment. You ever see a chick jump up down smiling from ear to ear because a guy asked her to marry him?

Well, then what would you lose out on? Sex with a slvt. Versus the alternative, an LTR with a quality chick. I guess some of this boils down to what's most important to you. An LTR or just bangs. Some guys don't want to wait, they don't care, they'd rather go the path of least resistance, like we've talked about earlier. Some guys though, are making effort to get into that LTR. Some guys, like me, don't know what the fvck they want or where they're going. And sometimes things just work out in one way or another. It all comes natural and just falls into place. But if that happened all the time, then none of us would be here.

I feel you can go for the bang, and should go for the bang. We're men, that's what we do. BUT, if you get turned down for the bang, then that's why I see it as a good thing sometimes. If I get turned down by a 5.5 and I know it's because she just wants to string me along, while she's banging ten other dudes on the side, then that's when I'll next the $hit out of her. But if I get turned down by an 8, because she wants to wait for the sake of waiting (as I understand at the time), but still see me again....then hey, maybe I have something here. Let's see where this leads to.

You might be right in terms of being high quality and qualifying your prospect. Our argument absolutely comes from different perspectives and now I can understand where you are coming from. I think it comes down to viewing women differently factoring in our age. This might be an interesting debate to bounce ideas off from each other.

So, my age group, it's very hard to define "high quality." I want to view myself as a high quality man, but it doesn't make sense since it's undefined for me. If I can define it, obvious answers aside (work, hobby, fitness, etc.) it would be motivation and drive. It's more the 'potential' for young men, which are intangible to everyone else. I'm not going to pay $500 a month for a car when I can save up capital. It doesn't matter how much I make. I like to change my own oil, hell, what am I going to do on a Sunday morning. How do young men with 'potential' appear high value? How do we even out the playing field with other young men wasting their money on fast cars and penthouse apartments? I think - it's the mindset, more importantly the indifference mindset. I'm not tall, handsome or even rich. Game has changed my life (and it can change yours too! Click here!)

The way I view relationships is the same way women view guys with potential.
It can be there, but it might not be there.
My view on sex is what women view fast cars and luxury suites - Instant Gratification. If it's within reach, why not grasp it? Why 'Wait for it?'

I know my Honda can travel so far and my rented bedroom can only hold so much. My dating experience can attest to that. You aren't guaranteed a second date even if you play it perfectly. My dating experience can also attest that women who fvck you will find a way to justify it, even if fvcking you again justifies it. None of the women I've had sex with on a date have went cold. Maybe I'm knocking on wood. Maybe when Woody is in, Little Bo Peep loses her sheep. Your d!ck has made its mark, although temporary, it did. You left a part of you in her that impulses the need to call you. Plate security.

You are absolutely more experienced than I am with relationships and women in general. I think that plays a factor in our respective dating strategies. Your experiences allows the ability to screen and screen and screen. Similar to the strategies used by women who are tired of players and assho|es. Every young man I see around me is predisposed to relationships, both 'high quality' and 'potential.' Ahhh, someone is going to get pissed at me writing this. Even men who fvcked their online first date can't hold back the urge to see her again the next day, even if she requested. Even the following day after that. Even if it means driving 20 miles each way. Young men lack the experience and foresight because natural urges and emotions get in the way of rational thought. Taking away urges and emotions leaves you with rational thought. The woman is not the same as she was before you fvcked her. The red flags begin to appear after you are sanitized from her love bug. It makes screening much more effective when you are rational.

 

[Peaks&Valleys]

Our argument absolutely comes from different perspectives and now I can understand where you are coming from. I think it comes down to viewing women differently factoring in our age. This might be an interesting debate to bounce ideas off from each other.

I agree 100%, and believe me, I have very good friends that say the same you do. One of them would like that LTR, but instead, always seems to have one of the 4 or 5 "plates" of lower caliber women around him. He's my age and at the point where, he can meet, date and fvck women on a regular basis, but the one that he would really like to be with, for the long term, always seems to allude him for this reason or that. His attitude is in the $hitter and he's all but given up.

So, my age group, it's very hard to define "high quality." I want to view myself as a high quality man, but it doesn't make sense since it's undefined for me. If I can define it, obvious answers aside (work, hobby, fitness, etc.) it would be motivation and drive. It's more the 'potential' for young men, which are intangible to everyone else. I'm not going to pay $500 a month for a car when I can save up capital. It doesn't matter how much I make. I like to change my own oil, hell, what am I going to do on a Sunday morning. How do young men with 'potential' appear high value?

I think this stems from the mind set of women loving value. And why, to counteract that, waiting comes into play. Why does a women have sex with you on the first or second date? And if she does is it because she "likes" you. Or is it because she just wants to have sex with someone, and if so, just as long as it's someone of "value"? If you wait, the three or four dates, you're not only investing your time yourself, but so is she. I don't take it as her "dangling the carrot", I take it as her investing herself in you.

How do we even out the playing field with other young men wasting their money on fast cars and penthouse apartments? I think - it's the mindset, more importantly the indifference mindset. I'm not tall, handsome or even rich. Game has changed my life (and it can change yours too! Click here!)

Having a nice car and apartment will show value, but if a woman is with a guy soley because of those things, then the relationship will be based on his value, and not on him.

The way I view relationships is the same way women view guys with potential.
It can be there, but it might not be there.
My view on sex is what women view fast cars and luxury suites - Instant Gratification. If it's within reach, why not grasp it? Why 'Wait for it?'

I know my Honda can travel so far and my rented bedroom can only hold so much. My dating experience can attest to that. You aren't guaranteed a second date even if you play it perfectly. My dating experience can also attest that women who fvck you will find a way to justify it, even if fvcking you again justifies it. None of the women I've had sex with on a date have went cold. Maybe I'm knocking on wood. Maybe when Woody is in, Little Bo Peep loses her sheep. Your d!ck has made its mark, although temporary, it did. You left a part of you in her that impulses the need to call you. Plate security.

Right, my experience as well. Sometimes ONS's are just simply that, ONS's. It is what it is and everybody moves on. Sometimes though, you do see them more. The thing is though, when this happens, the relationship is based off of sex. You two are virtual strangers then you have sex, then you try to get to know each other and figure out if you're compatible. But this way is backwards, and I feel it does effect the natural "growth" of the relationship. It sets the relationship on a different path then if you were to know the person first, then have sex.

You are absolutely more experienced than I am with relationships and women in general. I think that plays a factor in our respective dating strategies. Your experiences allows the ability to screen and screen and screen. Similar to the strategies used by women who are tired of players and assho|es. Every young man I see around me is predisposed to relationships, both 'high quality' and 'potential.' Ahhh, someone is going to get pissed at me writing this. Even men who fvcked their online first date can't hold back the urge to see her again the next day, even if she requested. Even the following day after that. Even if it means driving 20 miles each way. Young men lack the experience and foresight because natural urges and emotions get in the way of rational thought. Taking away urges and emotions leaves you with rational thought. The woman is not the same as she was before you fvcked her. The red flags begin to appear after you are sanitized from her love bug. It makes screening much more effective when you are rational.

Here's my thought process on this whole thing. The longer you wait to have sex with her is in direct proportion to how long you will continue to have sex with her. Of course, there are exceptions to every rule, but if you think about it, at least in my case, that's generally how it's worked out. I've had a $hit tone of ONS's from bars, and most of them, I'll maybe see a few times, maybe, but the ones I have three or four dates with, are always the ones I end up seeing for longer.

If these chicks are bouncing around from one flashy rich guy to the next, then obviously, that $hit's not going to last. If it does, it will based off BS, and the chick will be miserable, and therefore so will the guy. From the outside looking in, you may think these guys have it made, but from the inside, most of these relationships are $hit. At the beginning, sure, they're going strong, but when it comes down to the brass tax, the relationship is based off of his money and her looks. Not the ground work for a strong LTR.

But hey, sex is sex, we all need it. I just went on a meet and greet coffee date today with someone I met online. Went well, she's not LTR material, but sexy and definitly bangable, plateable, think so, we'll see. This one, I would have loved to go back to her place and lay it down. Logistics didn't work out, I'm going to try next time though.

 

[BeDJ]

I just went on a meet and greet coffee date today with someone I met online. Went well, she's not LTR material, but sexy and definitly bangable, plateable, think so, we'll see. This one, I would have loved to go back to her place and lay it down. Logistics didn't work out, I'm going to try next time though.

MOST women you meet online are not LTR material, that's why they are there in the first place. There are a few gems, but very very very rare.

What can you get from a night bar date that you can't get from a coffee date? If LTR is what you are seeking, you can gauge her very well with her drinking patterns. It's a win win, she loosens up for you or she doesn't. (No pun intended.) That's why I encourage to practice first date drinks religiously. You will filter out A LOT of s|uts.

As for your post, we are at different points in life and what you say makes sense. A lot of sense. However, I can not and will not accept them at this stage in my life. I am encouraging young men to have the same mindset regarding sex as I do. I strongly believe that it's the BEST strategy. I introduced my room mate to OK Cupid and he broke his dry spell, dismissed a prospect for wanting exclusivity and he is going on 3 dates a week. I gave him a lecture about online dating and how it won't help your seduction and general game. He agreed even though he is spinning plate like a mofo. He has a grasp of the red pill ideology and I introduced him to SoSuave.

I feel good, but at the same time jealous to not have a 'mentor' guide me through the dating strategies when I started. I had to figure out a LOT of things on my own and now I can break it down into a compact version that everyone can adapt to. Fvck me.

 

[donking]

A woman who enjoys drinking or has ever smoked in her life is no good for LTR - sorry bros.

Okcupid is good for lays, but horrible to find a nice girl. Even my last girl who only had 2 guys before was selfish and a golddigger from CHina lol.