Girl wants to move slowly...

[Colossus]

There is really a lack of individual, critical thinking in the manosphere these days. The same rhetoric gets parroted over and over and over and over....

OP-- She probably really DOES have trust issues if she is explicitly telling you so. Sometimes they make it easy. With her, I'd be cautious you are going to run into this problem again. Girls who have been burned like this tend to find offense in your advances. Not always, but often. If she told you that after a butt squeeze??? Expect tons of resistance, and guilt on her part if you push the envelope too far.


Personally I have a mental threshold for waiting, and there isn't even a number attached to it. If I feel I am being made to wait, or if she uses the phrase "I'm worth the wait", then I'm out. That's bull. You just know when she is trying to run the show.

BUT---if she is otherwise really into me physically and keeps putting up light resistance when I go for sex?? That's ok. That's good even. I get through it. You can tell in your gut when they actually respect themselves and are suppressing their natural urges in order to not be a slvt. If she keeps calling you, texting you, touching and kissing you---dude she is INTO you and you can just let that sweet tension build. When you have enough experience you just develop this instinct.

I think it's hard to objectify or quantify this concept, and believe me I have tried. You just cant assign numbers to it. It's a gut feeling.

 

[Zarky]

Guys, no offense, but if you believe this chick has "trust issues," I don't know what to say. That line comes directly from the slut playbook. I've heard it several times myself, and if I dump them because of it, or get offended about it, they backtrack every time.

In 2008 some Brazilian chick -- one of the very few 8s I've ever found online -- said those very words to me when we were out at drinks and appetizers on a second date (this was before I dumped chicks who didn't put out on the first date).

I glared at her and asked her point-blank what kind of guy she thought I was, some sexless douche who has no options? Then I got up, threw my napkin on the table, and went to the bathroom.

I returned to the table, she was there and said, "I thought you left!" Later that evening I f*cked her in the passenger seat of my car. Trust issues my ass, she had assumed I was a chump and I made it clear I wasn't.

 

[The Duke]

So Zarky.......if you had so many "options" as you stated, then why did you make such a big deal about it?

I just don't see the point in getting mad enough to throw your napkin and storm off to the bathroom because you weren't going to get any. I would suspect most men with options would have been indifferent.

When a guy stops allowing his sechsual desire to fuel his actions, the more powerful he will become.

 

[Zarky]

^^^^ Normally I'd agree, but for some reason I got angry and it worked. It worked once when I was 18 and had my first girlfriend, too. We were in my car, she was giving me LMR, I got angry and punched the steering wheel and the horn honked. She ended up blowing me in the back seat.

For some reason there's a correlation between me getting angry at being refused sex and then later getting the girl to give me some in a car, LOL. I don't know why.

And in case any of you think I "bullied" this chick into sex, we were together for 3 years afterward so it's not like she put out because she was scared or something.

It does make me angry when some chick pulls some stupid line like OP's. It's insulting. When a woman insults me by trying to withhold sex and I get angry, it seems to work for me. I let my feelings flow sometimes.

And actually, now that I mention it, the guys I've known through life who'd dated chicks substantially hotter than they were... were all guys who were kind of recklessly emotional. I think turning on those emotions in women, by expressing them yourself, is partly a key to gettin' their shorts off.

I believe I'm going to start reconsidering the "Mr. Cool" vibe I usually try to put out. I'm going to tinker around with some more emotional intensity.

Good thread, got me thinking! Pretty rare here but nice when it happens.

 

[BeDJ]

No one is saying there's anything wrong with a girl not putting out on the first date. Yes, actually there are, it's implied.

The bullsh!t detector went off when she said her experiences on guys not understanding no. A guy ****ed her on the first date for whatever reason and now she regrets it.This girl is NOW making the OP pay for past bad decisions when she was pumped and dumped or gave her snatch away for free. S|ut justification. Maybe she learned something

She decided to HER RULES on when sex will be occurring, Yes that's how it works, go on so when OP agreed to it, she controls not only sex, but the relationship. Nope, only the sex He is now a puppet with her dangling the sex cord. Don't think so, not if you listen to my previous advice It was perfectly executed to play the victim card which many men fall for. Some do, but all she said is she wanted to wait, that's it. She's not a born again virgin, she just wants to wait....This is where you take back control of the relationship progress. You've always been in control. As long as your d1ck's not calling the shots.

I've have bad experiences in the past, I want to move slow.
That's fine, I have other options. Your response is showing emotion my friend. You're getting her back for saying that mean deceitful thing that brought back bad memories of getting denied in the past, and made you want to go back home and cry to mama
If you agree with her, you give her all the power.
If you agree with her, pull back and give her little attention, it reaffirms her belief that you just want sex.
If you agree with her, say you have other options and leave it at that, her hamster will be on 10 pills of ecstasy.

She either plays by your rules or you walk away. Your rules are on ecstasy. Don't ever be a slave to pvssy. If you're too emotional about it you'll always be the slave.

My reply in red.

Why the red text bro? I thought we were friends.



Why should the next guy have to wait because of her past decisions?

I'm playing Blackjack and get dealt a 16, dealer showing a 7. I hit and I bust. Because of that, I should stay on 16 to win.

Her strategy of withholding sex to prevent the 'incident' from happening again is her trump card. She knows that's her only power to get what she wants. Sex will be happening on her terms. She dictates the relational progress by dangling that carrot. Once she gets what she wants, she then rewards her strung along partner - after he has passed all her challenges and deemed himself worthy of her pvssy.

The mindset posters here have - Sex is never worth the wait, a woman will decide to fvck you within the first 5 minutes of meeting you. Sex has nothing to do with terms and conditions, rather raw instinctive pleasure. If she does not view sex like that with you and makes you wait, then sex no longer happens naturally. It's a process of negotiation.

 

[Moes]

I'll definitely take most of that into consideration. And the other girl I just met has been showing the same "i don't wanna move to fast" syndrome already as well but hasn't mentioned any trust issues..yet, mainly just the stranger factor from meeting on-line..

I actually met both of the girls over the net and both have gotten out of LTR’s in the last few months and sounds like both got burned. So I’m dealing with the "mental shield" thing now. It's funny b/c the last girl I bagged, tagged and released back into the wild dropped her pants on the 3rd "date" and these two are basically the complete opposite. I’ll just need to do some more mental recon on them and dig deeper into their past while escalating as much as possible per everyone’s advice.

I’ll report back what I dig up.

thanks

 

[Peaks&Valleys]

Why the red text bro? I thought we were friends.



Why should the next guy have to wait because of her past decisions?

I'm playing Blackjack and get dealt a 16, dealer showing a 7. I hit and I bust. Because of that, I should stay on 16 to win.

Her strategy of withholding sex to prevent the 'incident' from happening again is her trump card. She knows that's her only power to get what she wants. Sex will be happening on her terms. She dictates the relational progress by dangling that carrot. Once she gets what she wants, she then rewards her strung along partner - after he has passed all her challenges and deemed himself worthy of her pvssy.

The mindset posters here have - Sex is never worth the wait, a woman will decide to fvck you within the first 5 minutes of meeting you. Sex has nothing to do with terms and conditions, rather raw instinctive pleasure. If she does not view sex like that with you and makes you wait, then sex no longer happens naturally. It's a process of negotiation.

If it's a power issue then that's something else. As, I mentioned in a previous thread, I believe it to be a set of rules she sets for guys who she respects and wants to see more of....and possibly get into a relationship with.

The girls that do have ONS's sooner or later most of them figure out that if they want to keep a quality guy, fvcking them on the first date isn't the answer. So yes BDJ, you are correct, sometimes we do have to pay for her previous mistakes.

At the same time though, they don't want to be with a guy for the long term that would try to turn a ONS into an LTR. Those types of guys are seen as beta. Whether you're a DJ or not if you fall for a girl you got "lucky" with, then you must not have any other options and are not worthy of a relationship. It's a double edged sword.

If she just wants to fvck and never see you again, sure, why wait three dates. But if she wants to see you again after you two fvck, she feels she might need to make you wait...a little while. Not too long of course.


This is a quote from Bokanovsky on another thread:

What you have is both a blessing and a curse. The blessing part is that you can probably can get casual sex from women quite easily. The curse is that you are not seen as relationship material. One usually come with the other. Guys who are seen as relationship material usually cannot get casual sex easily because women use sex as a bargaining chip with them and try to withhold it as long as possible to reel the "relationship guy" in.

Although the "bargaining chip" reference can be seen in a few different ways, and, of course there's gray areas in everything, ^^^^this pretty much nails it.

 

[backbreaker]

here's my issue with this all. and i agree with colussus.


you weren't moving too fast. you kissed her and grabbed her ass. wow, you are grown ass adults. that's not moving too fast. moving too fast is PIITB in the car on the first date. moving too fast is hand jobs in the movie theater lol. moving too fast is not ass grabs and kisses. that's **** i did in high school

if a girl whose ass i grab and kiss her tells me i'm moving too fast, she doesn't like me. it's that simple. My wife made it be known to me on our first date "that wasn't happening" but **** we still spent half the date with our tounges down each others throat.

OP-- She probably really DOES have trust issues if she is explicitly telling you so. Sometimes they make it easy. With her, I'd be cautious you are going to run into this problem again. Girls who have been burned like this tend to find offense in your advances. Not always, but often. If she told you that after a butt squeeze??? Expect tons of resistance, and guilt on her part if you push the envelope too far.

here's my thing. even if she DID have trust issues, why is it my responsibly to put on the cape and wait around for her trust issues to be taken care of? I got issues or had issues iwth women trying to use me for my wallet but i would get laughed out of a room if i told i girl i wouldnt' spend a dime on a girl for 6 months and rightfully so that's silly. her issues aren't my probelm.

dating is supposed to be FUN and enjoyable. I'm not into self flagellating myself just to get *****. ]

even if you waited around, what's the end game? it's not like she's just going to be tory lane in the bedroom or anything lol. any chick this prude you know is a freaking square in the sheets so it's def not worth the wait. and then you are now worshiping bad ***** lol. ]

iu'm not saying a girl should **** on the first date but fvck the trust issue ****. that's for other dudes.


this chick comes off as trying too hard and she's trying too hard for a reason. either she was a slut and is trying to go the polar opposite direction, she was abused earlier in life, or she is just stupid. none of the three will deliver a positive outcome.

 

[nismo-4]

The concept of taking it slow is when a woman thinks you're a beta. I call women out on this sh*t because I have little tolerance for female bullsh*t. Upon hearing that line, you might as well hear "Let's just be friends."

This is a power grab that women use, call them on it. Don't accept the friendzone. When a woman controls the relationship with sex, she controls when sex happens, if ever.

I like that line men can use about "That's fine, I have other options." Also, I cosign Colossus. If a woman is making you wait, she's got an alpha at home waiting to destroy her vaginal walls. And she'll come to you for attention.

It's 2013 guys, wake the f**k up! Women who are interested in you won't confuse you!

 

[BeDJ]

If it's a power issue then that's something else. As, I mentioned in a previous thread, I believe it to be a set of rules she sets for guys who she respects and wants to see more of....and possibly get into a relationship with.

The girls that do have ONS's sooner or later most of them figure out that if they want to keep a quality guy, fvcking them on the first date isn't the answer. So yes BDJ, you are correct, sometimes we do have to pay for her previous mistakes.

At the same time though, they don't want to be with a guy for the long term that would try to turn a ONS into an LTR. Those types of guys are seen as beta. Whether you're a DJ or not if you fall for a girl you got "lucky" with, then you must not have any other options and are not worthy of a relationship. It's a double edged sword.

If she just wants to fvck and never see you again, sure, why wait three dates. But if she wants to see you again after you two fvck, she feels she might need to make you wait...a little while. Not too long of course.

That's why I used my Blackjack analogy. Does making the next guy wait for sex result in a quality man?

The real double edge sword here - She gets what she wants by making the guy wait for sex, however, she sees him as lower value because she can manipulate him with sex. The progress to sex is more primitive than it is a process. When a girl slaps you with that countdown timer, you can probably call it a wrap.

In the past year, I have had ONE woman do this to me. She DID NOT tell me that either. She was straddling me topless and I went for the jean button. She stopped me without saying a word. 30 minutes later, she texted me 'so what do you think of me so far.' So begins the process of negotiation. It's no longer the raw animal instinct of fvcking. I played it cool, asked her out a week later but never saw her again.

What went through her mind:

- The next time we hang out we probably will have sex.
- Does he meet all the criteria I'm looking for?
- Will he see me again? How much will it hurt if he doesn't
- Could I do better?

No matter how much a woman likes you, once sex is negotiated, it's a lose-lose situation. When you go for sex and get denied, it's never a good situation to be in.

Furthermore, I have never experienced a woman losing interest after sex, as some posters have mentioned. I'm not talking about a ONS at a club, but women I have took out on a date. There's that rationalization women encounter to justify why she had sex, in addition to the fear of getting pumped and dumped. That in itself has her hamster in an orbit. The result is her showing more interest and affection for the guy that just fvcked her. It's a win-win situation to secure sex as early as possible.

Fun Fact: the woman that denied me sex called me up 3 weeks later for late night happy hour. I would have been stupid to pass up her offer according to most. I rejected. . Tough decision, but it cemented my mentality of not being a woman's prisoner for sex.

Sex is NEVER worth the wait.

 

[backbreaker]

I mean let's use some common sense. If we are in the movie theater and I'm trying to give her to give me a blow job, and she says i am moving too fast lol, i can rationally see how her giving me a blow job on a first date in a movie theater can make me not take her seriously long term. I can see that and can respect that.

but in this case, he didn't do anything.

 

[Peaks&Valleys]

That's why I used my Blackjack analogy. Does making the next guy wait for sex result in a quality man?

The real double edge sword here - She gets what she wants by making the guy wait for sex, however, she sees him as lower value because she can manipulate him with sex. The progress to sex is more primitive than it is a process. When a girl slaps you with that countdown timer, you can probably call it a wrap.

In the past year, I have had ONE woman do this to me. She DID NOT tell me that either. She was straddling me topless and I went for the jean button. She stopped me without saying a word. 30 minutes later, she texted me 'so what do you think of me so far.' So begins the process of negotiation. It's no longer the raw animal instinct of fvcking. I played it cool, asked her out a week later but never saw her again.

What went through her mind:

- The next time we hang out we probably will have sex.
- Does he meet all the criteria I'm looking for?
- Will he see me again? How much will it hurt if he doesn't
- Could I do better?

No matter how much a woman likes you, once sex is negotiated, it's a lose-lose situation. When you go for sex and get denied, it's never a good situation to be in.

Furthermore, I have never experienced a woman losing interest after sex, as some posters have mentioned. I'm not talking about a ONS at a club, but women I have took out on a date. There's that rationalization women encounter to justify why she had sex, in addition to the fear of getting pumped and dumped. That in itself has her hamster in an orbit. The result is her showing more interest and affection for the guy that just fvcked her. It's a win-win situation to secure sex as early as possible.

Fun Fact: the woman that denied me sex called me up 3 weeks later for late night happy hour. I would have been stupid to pass up her offer according to most. I rejected. . Tough decision, but it cemented my mentality of not being a woman's prisoner for sex.

Sex is NEVER worth the wait.

Colossus sums it up very nicely.

BUT---if she is otherwise really into me physically and keeps putting up light resistance when I go for sex?? That's ok. That's good even. I get through it. You can tell in your gut when they actually respect themselves and are suppressing their natural urges in order to not be a slvt. If she keeps calling you, texting you, touching and kissing you---dude she is INTO you and you can just let that sweet tension build. When you have enough experience you just develop this instinct.

I think it's hard to objectify or quantify this concept, and believe me I have tried. You just cant assign numbers to it. It's a gut feeling.

I understand what you are saying BDJ. But there is a gray area. That's the thing. If you are just looking for a pump and dump then fine, you're reasoning is justified, and I can see why you feel that way.

I'm the guy who would rather have a few quality plates rather than a new HB6 or 7 every night. I'm willing to wait a few dates for them. As long as it's just a few and they're not using it as a power thing. If they're using sex as a carrot then they don't know me or what I'm about. If I were to come across as someone who just wants sex, and then once I get it, I'm going to bounce, then I don't blame them for not wanting to give it up....they'd lose me That's why not getting butt hurt or not giving an emotional response is to getting "stopped" is key.

I've had plenty of good plates in the past who have made me wait. Here's the typical timeline:

First date: meet and greet for coffee or a drink on a neutral ground.
Second date: Come to my place and I take her out for drinks. We have fun. Then we come back to my place and "mess around" on the couch but when it gets to a certain point she gives me a whisper: "not yet" she says. But I know she wants to. I just give her a smile, pull back a little and but keep going but I don't push it. She knows I'm respecting her boundaries. Trust is acquired. When she leaves for the night I walk her out to her car and give her a hug. This states "I'm okay with not having sex I still liked hanging out with you." She now knows it's okay to have sex with me because that's not what this relationship is all about therefore I will still want to see her once we do have sex.
Third date: Movie night....and then the big bang. Blow her doors off.

From this point on, she can't wait to see me because we had fun and I gave her a bunch of orgasms. But we didn't talk about puppy dogs and ice cream so she's understands we're not heading in the LTR direction. There's a fine line there, leading her on versus letting her know where she stands.....and that's as a plate.

Sometimes it does take a fourth or fifth date to close the deal but that's usually pushing it. If she starts holding back due to fear of the pump and dump then I'm doing something wrong. Either that or she's got some screws loose and I sense it and eject. I would never get to a fourth or fifth date with someone I just wanted to pump and dump. Why would I? Waste of time. Plenty of other chicks out there actually looking for a one time deal....just look at POF.

Now, after the third or fourth date, I have myself a quality plate that I get to bang on a regular basis. She respects me for going through the motions of "getting to know one another." And I respect her for not giving it up on the first night. We have a mutual respect which makes the plate relationship more of a healthy one. She's not just a booty call FB at 1AM. We can go to the movies or to drinks then come back and fvck.

I like that better, some do not. I like spending time with them, having actual fun. It's not an LTR, but a pseudo one, I get the benefits of an LTR, but not all the bad $hit that comes along with one. I can usually see her when I want, but I can also date other women and/or go out have ONS's. Or hang out with friends over the weekend. She can also drive me places when I need a ride, or pick me up from the airport. Plus I get to bang them, and sometimes get presents and gifts and free meals.

I like it this way.

There's been plenty of girls I've banged on the first night that I've turned into plates. Some of them have been great...but, the ones I've waited for have been better.

 

[BeDJ]

Peaks,

I'm not saying that a girl has to put out on the first date. However, if a woman verbally (or non-verbally) makes you wait for sex, then she wants sex under her conditions.

Doesn't that give her control over the progress of the relationship?

 

[Peaks&Valleys]

Sex is always under her conditions.

Whenever we go out on dates what's our goal? To have sex with her. She knows this. What's stopping us? Her. Our whole night revolves around her giving us the green light to stick it in. The 'ol butt lift when she's laying down and we go to take off her panties.

That's just the way it is.

If your only reason for hanging out with her is to have sex...then she will have the power, but if you turn it around and not make it about sex, then her one play is ousted. See my first post brotha, I've been breaking it down this whole time.

Some girls will just go with the flow and, if you're constantly progressing, they will give no resistance. I've done that so many times, in all honesty, I don't hold it against them and don't view them as slvts, they've given it up to someone who knows what he's doing But some will give the resistance, and you know what, the ones that do resist are also the ones I respect more. Why? Because they resisted me...and had control of their emotions. They wanted me...but they also wanted to wait. Good for them

 

[Zarky]

Sex is always under her conditions.

Whenever we go out on dates what's our goal? To have sex with her. She knows this. What's stopping us? Her. Our whole night revolves around her giving us the green light to stick it in. The 'ol butt lift when she's laying down and we go to take off her panties.

That's just the way it is.

If your only reason for hanging out with her is to have sex...then she will have the power, but if you turn it around and not make it about sex, then her one play is ousted.

Gotta say I completely disagree with this and here's why:

Suppose you walk onto a car lot. You're there to buy a car, right? You wouldn't be on the lot if you didn't want a car. The salesman knows it, you know it, you each know that the other knows it.

So the salesman is going to try to get the most for the car, you're going to try to pay the least. You each know it, you each know the other knows it.

Would you say that the sale is "always under the salesman's conditions?" I wouldn't. It's not a gift. It's a trade. Each side has something to offer. If he didn't think you had something to offer, the salesman wouldn't even be talking to you.

So if a woman is on a date with you, it means she thinks you may have something to offer in exchange for her p*ssy. It's a trade, not a gift.

I finally figured out why it seems to work when I get angry when a woman tries to get me to "wait" for sex. Why playing it cool and pretending I don't care doesn't work as well.

Suppose you're on a used car lot looking at a type of, say, Toyota. You know that they're worth about $35,000. You test drive one, talk about it with the salesman, etc. You spend a couple of hours there looking at the interior, exterior, under the hood, etc. You go back to his office and he quotes you a price of $80,000. What would you do?

Would you play it cool and say hey, no problem, I'll think about it. Or would you suddenly spit out your coffee onto the floor in shock? Would you be cool with him or would you get pissed off? I'd get pissed, really really pissed. I'd ask if he's f*cking kidding me. I'd ask if I look like a goddamn idiot who doesn't know anything about used cars. I'd ask why he was wasting my f*cking time quoting such a ridiculous price when I could go down the block and buy it for less than half that. I'd get out of my chair and walk toward the door and tell him he's lost a customer forever, is what I would do.

And if the salesman got up, chased me down, apologized and said he's sorry, he was being a d1ck, and quoted a more realistic price, then maybe he could talk me into sitting back down and discussing things for real.

Why wouldn't you do that with a woman who quotes you a ridiculous price for her p*ssy? It's the same damn thing. All sex is the result of negotiation. If you don't see that you're not really looking.

 

[backbreaker]

Gotta say I completely disagree with this and here's why:

Suppose you walk onto a car lot. You're there to buy a car, right? You wouldn't be on the lot if you didn't want a car. The salesman knows it, you know it, you each know that the other knows it.

So the salesman is going to try to get the most for the car, you're going to try to pay the least. You each know it, you each know the other knows it.

Would you say that the sale is "always under the salesman's conditions?" I wouldn't. It's not a gift. It's a trade. Each side has something to offer. If he didn't think you had something to offer, the salesman wouldn't even be talking to you.

So if a woman is on a date with you, it means she thinks you may have something to offer in exchange for her p*ssy. It's a trade, not a gift.

I finally figured out why it seems to work when I get angry when a woman tries to get me to "wait" for sex. Why playing it cool and pretending I don't care doesn't work as well.

Suppose you're on a used car lot looking at a type of, say, Toyota. You know that they're worth about $35,000. You test drive one, talk about it with the salesman, etc. You spend a couple of hours there looking at the interior, exterior, under the hood, etc. You go back to his office and he quotes you a price of $80,000. What would you do?

Would you play it cool and say hey, no problem, I'll think about it. Or would you suddenly spit out your coffee onto the floor in shock? Would you be cool with him or would you get pissed off? I'd get pissed, really really pissed. I'd ask if he's f*cking kidding me. I'd ask if I look like a goddamn idiot who doesn't know anything about used cars. I'd ask why he was wasting my f*cking time quoting such a ridiculous price when I could go down the block and buy it for less than half that. I'd get out of my chair and walk toward the door and tell him he's lost a customer forever, is what I would do.

And if the salesman got up, chased me down, apologized and said he's sorry, he was being a d1ck, and quoted a more realistic price, then maybe he could talk me into sitting back down and discussing things for real.

Why wouldn't you do that with a woman who quotes you a ridiculous price for her p*ssy? It's the same damn thing. All sex is the result of negotiation. If you don't see that you're not really looking.

this is an outstanding post.

to expand on this thought, let's flip the script. whatif zarky is buying a car from me and he comes to the lot and all i do is take him out and show him the cars he said he wanted to look at and went and got hte keys for a test drive for a ar he likes and he turns around and says "i just want to take this slow, id on't want to be pressured into buying a car"

what i would do at that point, is finish the test drive, give them my business card and let some other dumbass on the car lot deal with them because this person is a stroke job. i have to make a living. i could understand if i had the 4 square out and i'm trying to work a car deal within 30 mins of meeting you and you say that but if we are on a test drive and you pull that out, you are up to some bull **** game playing and i don't' have time for that.

that's no different than what happened here. when you are on a date with a chick or hanging with a chick you got to have that mind set. i have to eat lol. this i show i eat. i don't have time to deal with women who play stupid childish games they read out of cosmo magazine.

 

[donking]

this can all be simplified by the three date rule. no sex by date 3, eject. doesn't matter who or what came before.

only exception I make is if she's a virgin. maybe I'll go 4 dates.

 

[Peaks&Valleys]

Gotta say I completely disagree with this and here's why:

Suppose you walk onto a car lot. You're there to buy a car, right? You wouldn't be on the lot if you didn't want a car. The salesman knows it, you know it, you each know that the other knows it.

So the salesman is going to try to get the most for the car, you're going to try to pay the least. You each know it, you each know the other knows it.

Would you say that the sale is "always under the salesman's conditions?" I wouldn't. It's not a gift. It's a trade. Each side has something to offer. If he didn't think you had something to offer, the salesman wouldn't even be talking to you.

So if a woman is on a date with you, it means she thinks you may have something to offer in exchange for her p*ssy. It's a trade, not a gift.

I finally figured out why it seems to work when I get angry when a woman tries to get me to "wait" for sex. Why playing it cool and pretending I don't care doesn't work as well.

Suppose you're on a used car lot looking at a type of, say, Toyota. You know that they're worth about $35,000. You test drive one, talk about it with the salesman, etc. You spend a couple of hours there looking at the interior, exterior, under the hood, etc. You go back to his office and he quotes you a price of $80,000. What would you do?

Would you play it cool and say hey, no problem, I'll think about it. Or would you suddenly spit out your coffee onto the floor in shock? Would you be cool with him or would you get pissed off? I'd get pissed, really really pissed. I'd ask if he's f*cking kidding me. I'd ask if I look like a goddamn idiot who doesn't know anything about used cars. I'd ask why he was wasting my f*cking time quoting such a ridiculous price when I could go down the block and buy it for less than half that. I'd get out of my chair and walk toward the door and tell him he's lost a customer forever, is what I would do.

And if the salesman got up, chased me down, apologized and said he's sorry, he was being a d1ck, and quoted a more realistic price, then maybe he could talk me into sitting back down and discussing things for real.

Why wouldn't you do that with a woman who quotes you a ridiculous price for her p*ssy? It's the same damn thing. All sex is the result of negotiation. If you don't see that you're not really looking.

Well Zarky, think I've just got a different style than you.

I see what you're getting at while using the car analogy. But, there's one problem, it's A$$ backwards. The car salesman should be the guy, and the girl should be the possible customer.

I'll fix it for you:

The guy's trying to sell her a car.... i.e. his d1ck. And if he starts getting upset because she won't make a decision, she'll just go to the next lot over. Why not? she hasn't invested anything yet, she was just kicking tires, and this car salesman came out and started being a d1ck, .... The guy at the next lot over plays a different game, instead, he'll smooth talk her, and warm her up to the idea. Sometimes acting indifferent to her buying it....because he really doesn't care if she wants it or not....he's got plenty of other buyers waiting. THEN, in her mind, she realizes she better get that car....before someone else does! Now she wants it, and it's her decision...... "he didn't really even try to sell me that car, he didn't care if I bought it or not. There must be value there, I'm probably getting it for a steal. I'll even pay a little more if he tries to bump the price because of all these other buyers."

See the difference? In one scenario she's going home uneasy about her purchase and possibly having second thoughts, because she feels she got pushed or bullied into the whole deal, it's not sitting right with her......In scenario #2 she's going home glowing with a big smile on her face....she just came up, and she's 100% satisfied and is already on the phones with her friends bragging about it....one of them is even asking if she can take it for a drive....."well, I guess, as long as I'm there with you of course."

 

[Scormus]

Do women ever want to take it slow with Ryan Gosling?

 

[BeDJ]

Well Zarky, think I've just got a different style than you.

I see what you're getting at while using the car analogy. But, there's one problem, it's A$$ backwards. The car salesman should be the guy, and the girl should be the possible customer.

I'll fix it for you:

The guy's trying to sell her a car.... i.e. his d1ck. And if he starts getting upset because she won't make a decision, she'll just go to the next lot over. Why not? she hasn't invested anything yet, she was just kicking tires, and this car salesman came out and started being a d1ck, .... The guy at the next lot over plays a different game, instead, he'll smooth talk her, and warm her up to the idea. Sometimes acting indifferent to her buying it....because he really doesn't care if she wants it or not....he's got plenty of other buyers waiting. THEN, in her mind, she realizes she better get that car....before someone else does! Now she wants it, and it's her decision...... "he didn't really even try to sell me that car, he didn't care if I bought it or not. There must be value there, I'm probably getting it for a steal. I'll even pay a little more if he tries to bump the price because of all these other buyers."

See the difference? In one scenario she's going home uneasy about her purchase and possibly having second thoughts, because she feels she got pushed or bullied into the whole deal, it's not sitting right with her......In scenario #2 she's going home glowing with a big smile on her face....she just came up, and she's 100% satisfied and is already on the phones with her friends bragging about it....one of them is even asking if she can take it for a drive....."well, I guess, as long as I'm there with you of course."

Both of you guys have this sh!t out of whack.

The woman is the customer and YOU ARE THE CAR! The more options you have, the higher the value she perceives.

to expand on this thought, let's flip the script. whatif zarky is buying a car from me

Ah, the ol' backbreaker switcharoo.