MOTU
Master Don Juan
^^^^ Agreed. However, the dude that gave her the book is trouble, like Someone else said.Vulpine said:
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Girl I'm seeing wants to participate in orgasmic meditation with a 'friend'
- Thread starter MtnMan
- Start date
If anyone cares, I will paraphrase how I stated this to her:
"I was thinking about the conversation we had the other day about your friend XXXX being your O.M. partner. I decided that I don't like the idea, and I'm not cool with it. I figured it was only fair that I let you know."
from there she went into explaining how he had offered but how she didn't want to cross that line. I held my frame, did not apologize at all for laying down my opinion. Sounds like nothing, but it was a small victory over myself.
Also, to back up Vulpine's test theory, she proceeded to tell me how she has told other dudes who were interested that she is seeing someone. I think this was a test of my frame and also a test to see what my interest level is.
"I was thinking about the conversation we had the other day about your friend XXXX being your O.M. partner. I decided that I don't like the idea, and I'm not cool with it. I figured it was only fair that I let you know."
from there she went into explaining how he had offered but how she didn't want to cross that line. I held my frame, did not apologize at all for laying down my opinion. Sounds like nothing, but it was a small victory over myself.
Also, to back up Vulpine's test theory, she proceeded to tell me how she has told other dudes who were interested that she is seeing someone. I think this was a test of my frame and also a test to see what my interest level is.
This was a very obvious power play/assurance seeking ploy on her part. When faced with those, I've found it best to reword the test into basic, but somewhat ambiguous terms that lead to a completely reasonable, emotionally neutral result of her choice to speak or act in a certain way towards her "exclusive" partner that she probably doesn't want.
"I see, well maybe we were too quick to become sexually exclusive if you are even considering experimenting like this with other guys. We can step it back to just dating and having fun together and see where things go, sure."
"I see, well maybe we were too quick to become sexually exclusive if you are still (responding this way to, encouraging, looking for, feel the need to declare to me) attention from other guys. We can step it back to just dating and having fun together and see where things go, sure."
You may hear a variation of "Are you breaking up with me?" and the answer is "breaking up is such a harsh term, if sex or sexual attention from other men is important enough for you to bring it up, then we just need to slow things down or take a couple of steps back from exclusivity, no need for any extremes unless that's what you are asking for."
If you get, "is that what YOU want?" then the response is "I'm happy to stay exclusive for the time being, but I don't feel the need to have discussions about sex with other women or sexual attention from other women with you. If that changes, though, you'll be the first to know."
The key is the clear communication of a strong presumption that "exclusivity carries consequences and there are clear boundaries that are beyond discussion if we are going to remain exclusive," such tests have instant, real results that she may not have intended. They should stop, has usually worked for me. On the chance that she is trying to bait a breakup, this just gets you out and moving on faster, so it works both ways.
"I see, well maybe we were too quick to become sexually exclusive if you are even considering experimenting like this with other guys. We can step it back to just dating and having fun together and see where things go, sure."
"I see, well maybe we were too quick to become sexually exclusive if you are still (responding this way to, encouraging, looking for, feel the need to declare to me) attention from other guys. We can step it back to just dating and having fun together and see where things go, sure."
You may hear a variation of "Are you breaking up with me?" and the answer is "breaking up is such a harsh term, if sex or sexual attention from other men is important enough for you to bring it up, then we just need to slow things down or take a couple of steps back from exclusivity, no need for any extremes unless that's what you are asking for."
If you get, "is that what YOU want?" then the response is "I'm happy to stay exclusive for the time being, but I don't feel the need to have discussions about sex with other women or sexual attention from other women with you. If that changes, though, you'll be the first to know."
The key is the clear communication of a strong presumption that "exclusivity carries consequences and there are clear boundaries that are beyond discussion if we are going to remain exclusive," such tests have instant, real results that she may not have intended. They should stop, has usually worked for me. On the chance that she is trying to bait a breakup, this just gets you out and moving on faster, so it works both ways.
Colossus
Master Don Juan
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( . )( . ) said:
Hahahahhahhaaa.....I literally LOL'ed.
MtnMan--is this the same divorced chick we warned you about? I have a feeling it is. She is bad merchandise.
Secondly, diddling a girl for potentially hours on end sounds about as boring as sitting in the DMV for an afternoon. Pass. And pass on this broad.
Bokanovsky
Master Don Juan
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I would look at it from a slightly different perspective. The fact that she would try to sh!t test him like that shows that the girl had very serious reservations about the OP to begin with. She would not dare to p!ss him off with such an outrageous sh!t test if she thought the OP had any backbone. Basically, the less a woman respects you, and the less she is into you, the more ridiculous/extreme her sh!t tests will be. In that sense, a woman's sh!t tests are a good gauge of how interested she is. If she never tests you, or does it rarely and in a "mild" fashion, her interest level is very high.Vulpine said:
cordoncordon
Master Don Juan
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Brah I know you want to believe what she says right now, mainly because this is the first girl you have really liked since your breakup with the ex, but I want you to really take a step back and look at what she said and did. I mean, reverse it. What frame of mind would you have to be in for you to say to her, "ya know, I have this friend, she's a girl, and we were talking where she would blow me without doing any other sort of touching. It's all really sterile and non sexual. And don't worry I read about it in a book, so nothing to worry about".MtnMan said:
I mean, would you ever risk saying something like that to a new girl you just started dating and that you really like? Hell no. The ONLY way you would say that is if A) you just weren't that into her and didn't care or respect what her response would be or B) you were a man WH 0 RE. Neither option is good from her point of view IF she really likes you and wants a LTR out of it.
I was one of the first guys to respond to your original thread here on SS, and I told you that you will get over your breakup and find someone better. This girl? IS NOT IT. I don't know why I feel so strongly about you and your well being in particular, maybe because I just think you are a good guy, but I would hate to see you get burned here.
Mtnman,
Early in a relationship when a chick throws you a big sh!t test like this it can be a huge turning point. You may not see the results of your decision to confront her for some time.
No doubt this was a test to gauge your interest. Same as when a chick starts flirting with other dudes in front of you.
Whenever this sh!t would happen to me I would throw it right back at her. In this case I would've pushed her to do it. I would've said "Wow sounds cool, you should do it." Afterwards I would've pulled away completely and gone no contact. Then I'd watch how things played out without my interference.
My thought process has always been that no woman is worth competing or fighting for. If she wants to play that game, I'm not playing. I want to know right away if she is for real or not. If she's into playing bullish!t games then good riddance. I won't waste a minute of my time on chicks who are going to d!ck me around.
There have been instances in my past where a dude was hitting on my new girl and I've literally pushed her into his arms and said "Here, this guy really likes you." Then I walked away. Male friends of mine can't believe it works, but it has never ever failed to give me the result I desire. That result is knowing who I am dealing with. In most cases she comes running back to me.
In my opinion just the fact that this happened is a red flag. The fact that she's even having conversations about orgasms with other dudes is troubling.
I'd be pulling back my interest on this one big time and watching how she reacts. When she comes asking what is wrong give her the "actions speak louder than words" speech and let her know that you're not wasting your time if she's discussing her orgasms with other dudes. Feel free to throw some "I felt like we had a chance at something really great here" (notice the past tense). Make her feel really bad about this. Her reaction is how you are going to determine what the future holds.
She's certainly been VERY disrespectful to someone she's trying to start a relationship with.
Imagine if the shoe was on the other foot and you had a "friend" who wanted you to diddle her cooch. You know "just as friends" nothing romantic. :crackup:
I think we all know the result of that.
Short of her crying her eyes out and begging for your forgiveness I'd put her on the back burner.
Keep your eyes WIDE open dude!
Early in a relationship when a chick throws you a big sh!t test like this it can be a huge turning point. You may not see the results of your decision to confront her for some time.
No doubt this was a test to gauge your interest. Same as when a chick starts flirting with other dudes in front of you.
Whenever this sh!t would happen to me I would throw it right back at her. In this case I would've pushed her to do it. I would've said "Wow sounds cool, you should do it." Afterwards I would've pulled away completely and gone no contact. Then I'd watch how things played out without my interference.
My thought process has always been that no woman is worth competing or fighting for. If she wants to play that game, I'm not playing. I want to know right away if she is for real or not. If she's into playing bullish!t games then good riddance. I won't waste a minute of my time on chicks who are going to d!ck me around.
There have been instances in my past where a dude was hitting on my new girl and I've literally pushed her into his arms and said "Here, this guy really likes you." Then I walked away. Male friends of mine can't believe it works, but it has never ever failed to give me the result I desire. That result is knowing who I am dealing with. In most cases she comes running back to me.
In my opinion just the fact that this happened is a red flag. The fact that she's even having conversations about orgasms with other dudes is troubling.
I'd be pulling back my interest on this one big time and watching how she reacts. When she comes asking what is wrong give her the "actions speak louder than words" speech and let her know that you're not wasting your time if she's discussing her orgasms with other dudes. Feel free to throw some "I felt like we had a chance at something really great here" (notice the past tense). Make her feel really bad about this. Her reaction is how you are going to determine what the future holds.
She's certainly been VERY disrespectful to someone she's trying to start a relationship with.
Imagine if the shoe was on the other foot and you had a "friend" who wanted you to diddle her cooch. You know "just as friends" nothing romantic. :crackup:
I think we all know the result of that.
Short of her crying her eyes out and begging for your forgiveness I'd put her on the back burner.
Keep your eyes WIDE open dude!
Prime_Beef
Don Juan
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This is the thirty year old nurse divorcee.....
Obviously not as mature as you had hoped. Starting to understand her better? Not likely LTR material. Fact that she's sharing sex info with a guy friend (hoping to be future **** buddy, or once was and will be again) tells you she ain't ready.
Obviously not as mature as you had hoped. Starting to understand her better? Not likely LTR material. Fact that she's sharing sex info with a guy friend (hoping to be future **** buddy, or once was and will be again) tells you she ain't ready.
rascal99v
Senior Don Juan
Mtnman failed when he allowed a woman to dictate the terms of sex agreeing to her wishes of not having any other sources of sex.
That should always be the man's decision, not the woman's. :yes:
You never want to relinquish any sources of sex beholden to one woman when you are not in a relationship. Other sources should always be available to you which keeps the woman in line.
With her as your only option, she can control the sex as she sees fit. If she isn't in the mood, is busy, goes out with friends, on her period, etc., you will go without sex.
She knows that, and can treat you anyway she likes because she knows you will agree to what she wants in order to get some pvssy. This is how women trap beta men into relationships. :yes:
And all of this for a chick who isn't even your girlfriend. :crazy:
But guess what? She HAS other options. She has dudes wanting to rub her cl!t for "slow sex", dudes wanting to fvck her. What do you have? Nothing. Because she took away all of your options in which YOU agreed to.
It's no coincidence that as soon as you gave up your power she pulls this sh1t on you.
So, since you gave her the power, she can use these men as options to keep you in line staying insecure.
"Hey Mtnman, Bob texted me today and wants to hang out."
Then you will come back here writing a thread for some advice on what to do. After that, you will call her on the phone again objecting to her hanging out with Bob.
"I don't think that's cool you should hang out with Bob."
"I wasn't going to do it anyway, but I thought you should know that's what he wanted to."
She has the power and you don't. You are reacting to her behavior, to Bob, and anything she does keeping you insecure. She should be reacting to YOU as YOU hold the frame being the dominant partner.
Alphas lead and betas react. You are reacting to her writing a thread about her wanting "slow sex" with another man.
It doesn't matter if she really wanted to or not, it's all about her having control in which she does that you are reacting to.
You having other women wanting to fvck you, keeps her in line where she doesn't pull this sh1t. She knows that if she isn't respecting you and complying to your wishes she will get dropped. That is what you want, instead of her having the frame holding other men over your head.
She might be into you now, but when she gets bored, she will have Bob and those other dudes at her disposal to take your place. She is your only option so you will hang on to be treated like sh1t like a lot of men do.
It will be very interesting to see how this thing plays out. Don't say that I didn't warn you dude. :yes:
That should always be the man's decision, not the woman's. :yes:
You never want to relinquish any sources of sex beholden to one woman when you are not in a relationship. Other sources should always be available to you which keeps the woman in line.
With her as your only option, she can control the sex as she sees fit. If she isn't in the mood, is busy, goes out with friends, on her period, etc., you will go without sex.
She knows that, and can treat you anyway she likes because she knows you will agree to what she wants in order to get some pvssy. This is how women trap beta men into relationships. :yes:
And all of this for a chick who isn't even your girlfriend. :crazy:
But guess what? She HAS other options. She has dudes wanting to rub her cl!t for "slow sex", dudes wanting to fvck her. What do you have? Nothing. Because she took away all of your options in which YOU agreed to.
It's no coincidence that as soon as you gave up your power she pulls this sh1t on you.
So, since you gave her the power, she can use these men as options to keep you in line staying insecure.
"Hey Mtnman, Bob texted me today and wants to hang out."
Then you will come back here writing a thread for some advice on what to do. After that, you will call her on the phone again objecting to her hanging out with Bob.
"I don't think that's cool you should hang out with Bob."
"I wasn't going to do it anyway, but I thought you should know that's what he wanted to."
She has the power and you don't. You are reacting to her behavior, to Bob, and anything she does keeping you insecure. She should be reacting to YOU as YOU hold the frame being the dominant partner.
Alphas lead and betas react. You are reacting to her writing a thread about her wanting "slow sex" with another man.
It doesn't matter if she really wanted to or not, it's all about her having control in which she does that you are reacting to.
You having other women wanting to fvck you, keeps her in line where she doesn't pull this sh1t. She knows that if she isn't respecting you and complying to your wishes she will get dropped. That is what you want, instead of her having the frame holding other men over your head.
She might be into you now, but when she gets bored, she will have Bob and those other dudes at her disposal to take your place. She is your only option so you will hang on to be treated like sh1t like a lot of men do.
It will be very interesting to see how this thing plays out. Don't say that I didn't warn you dude. :yes:
I have to agree with some of the replies. You played right into her hand.
She wanted you to react with jealousy, and you did. You agreed to be exclusive but that wasn't enough, she needed to be in control.
You believe you manned up by telling her you didn't like the idea but most guys would have done the same thing and it's what she expected. Had you agreed & amplified by saying something like "I don't see anything wrong with it, you should do it," it would have thrown her for a loop.
Her game is obvious, question is, is she worth an LTR. She's already began the childish jealousy games...
She wanted you to react with jealousy, and you did. You agreed to be exclusive but that wasn't enough, she needed to be in control.
You believe you manned up by telling her you didn't like the idea but most guys would have done the same thing and it's what she expected. Had you agreed & amplified by saying something like "I don't see anything wrong with it, you should do it," it would have thrown her for a loop.
Her game is obvious, question is, is she worth an LTR. She's already began the childish jealousy games...
thanks for the replies guys. Its a lot to digest. I suppose I could go into much greater detail about how this conversation went down, and i think i made it sound a bit more exaggerated than it was.
However, there are some really good points being made here. This is literally the only thing I would consider a **** test that has come from this girl, and her interest still seems really high in all other accounts.
Its a bummer for sure, I was getting into this girl. I guess its good that this came along and made me pull my head out of my arse and take a good hard look at this situation.
However, there are some really good points being made here. This is literally the only thing I would consider a **** test that has come from this girl, and her interest still seems really high in all other accounts.
Its a bummer for sure, I was getting into this girl. I guess its good that this came along and made me pull my head out of my arse and take a good hard look at this situation.
Colossus
Master Don Juan
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The ONLY thing?? What about when you went camping with her and she pulled the "how patient are you?" card?MtnMan said:
Not withstanding her preexisting red flags of daddy issues and divorce.
Look this is all part of the learning process man, and I know this is the first girl you've really dug since your breakup. But I don't think you are seeing things clearly here. I think your feelings and to a lesser extent your pen1s are clouding your judgment.
This isn't really a question of her interest. It's a question of her QUALITY, which is demonstrably low. You've got all the aforementioned issues in addition to her insinuating that she might want another guy to diddle her into a slow-gasm. Nigga please! You aren't thinking clearly. Dumping girls like this are how you BUILD your quality as a man and raise your SMV.
And on the note of sh!t tests, I will say this: Sh!t tests are NOT a marker of high interest. This is flagrant bullsh!t promoted by men with poor experience, poor introspective skills, or both. Any woman who is truly into a man and looks up to him would not DARE bring such an outrageous sh!t test to the table, lest she get dumped.
apprenticedj
Senior Don Juan
Atta boy MtnMan, you didn't like something and instead of letting it slide you said something. That's what men are supposed to do.
You don't have to be "cool" with everything, people that act that way are just pretending.
You don't have to be "cool" with everything, people that act that way are just pretending.
some seriously conflicting responses in this thread. Not sure how to proceed, to be honest.
Normally I try to take in advice, ruminate in it for a while and proceed while following my gut. At this point, not sure what my gut is saying.
Normally I try to take in advice, ruminate in it for a while and proceed while following my gut. At this point, not sure what my gut is saying.
ok lets say this, its of course what I would have be thinking if it was me.
she is taking sex advice from a guy (not good for me)
she state that that guy offered to help her on that slow sex (sure just think, I did offer to help woman who complain about sex and that was because I would bang her without any problem if she was ugly I would think "and you still wonder why?")
now lets wonder why a woman would say that at all to you
she does not wonder you would leave her with something like that (pretty much testing waters to see if you are ok with it), with that means she is not afraid of losing you and I doubt she would be that airhead enough to not notice that.
other thing I thing is you are jsut evaluating her for her interest on you and not about her quality (divorcee, this kind of sh!t test) with for all you told us is pretty low.
course it all our opnion with the info we do have, this kind of sh!t to me was enough I would even toss a sure and can I invite a girl so we can have a 3some? but its you who have the whole info and is dealing with what your gut is telling.
just think if the defense you try to build for her is not like you are afraid to start again the whole dating new woman or think you can't do better
she is taking sex advice from a guy (not good for me)
she state that that guy offered to help her on that slow sex (sure just think, I did offer to help woman who complain about sex and that was because I would bang her without any problem if she was ugly I would think "and you still wonder why?")
now lets wonder why a woman would say that at all to you
she does not wonder you would leave her with something like that (pretty much testing waters to see if you are ok with it), with that means she is not afraid of losing you and I doubt she would be that airhead enough to not notice that.
other thing I thing is you are jsut evaluating her for her interest on you and not about her quality (divorcee, this kind of sh!t test) with for all you told us is pretty low.
course it all our opnion with the info we do have, this kind of sh!t to me was enough I would even toss a sure and can I invite a girl so we can have a 3some? but its you who have the whole info and is dealing with what your gut is telling.
just think if the defense you try to build for her is not like you are afraid to start again the whole dating new woman or think you can't do better
VladPatton
Master Don Juan
I can't help but think that people who do this weird, out of the ordinary freak sex shıt are people who want their cake and eat it, too. Why the fück would someone ask the sexually exclusive, then dump this pile of liquid crap all over your head? Because she wants both worlds. Look, just keep it simple, and tell her you don't like the fact that she mentioned sexual exclusivity and is now going to get fingered like a bowling ball by some other dude. If anything YOU should be the one doing it. Wouldn't that be more accurate? What's next? "Oh, I can't see you this weekend, two couples and an old friend want to practice seminal penile painting and I volunteered my face because it just happens to be the right size and skin color".
Get the fück outta, here, man. It's all too simple. Just don't buy into it, that's all. Some of these girls are outta fücking control lately.
Tell her it bothers you if she goes through with it, and whatever happens happens. Of course, be prepared she'll jet. So be it. You can't go on wondering what she sounded like when that other dude made her pop. And that motherfücker is out and about all happy and grinning while you're upset. Not cool.
Good luck and keep us posted.
Get the fück outta, here, man. It's all too simple. Just don't buy into it, that's all. Some of these girls are outta fücking control lately.
Tell her it bothers you if she goes through with it, and whatever happens happens. Of course, be prepared she'll jet. So be it. You can't go on wondering what she sounded like when that other dude made her pop. And that motherfücker is out and about all happy and grinning while you're upset. Not cool.
Good luck and keep us posted.
cordoncordon
Master Don Juan
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Mtn man I am concerned that you are more worried about if this means she has low interest level in you rather than if you think she is a quality woman or not worth of dating you. To me this spells trouble as it means you are way more invested in this than she is. You need to look out for you. Don't be desperate. You need to have a set of standards that you want in a mate and if you don't see it in someone, you will move on. And any girl that would ask you this while starting a relationship with someone she supposedly likes? Is not a quality woman.
Stop being blinded man.
Stop being blinded man.
I've already told her I wasn't cool with it, and she backpedaled pretty hard claiming it was just him offering, she wasn't considering doing it with him. She has brought it up a few times about having me to it to her, which I am open to.
This girl hasn't done anything like this slow sex thing before, but I think is trying to stretch her boundaries since her divorce. She really seems like she has had a pretty mundane sex life previously. Whatever, honestly I don't really care if a girl wants to be into some new age sexual mumbo jumbo, however I am DEFINITELY NOT COOL with someone else engaging in a sexual act with a girl who promised sexual exclusivity to me.
This whole situation has thrown me for a bit of a loop, not really sure how I am going to proceed at this point. At first I was pretty open to doing this with her, now I'm not so sure. She said she started reading the book and thinks that the techniques are much more geared towards couples.
I guess the next time I see her I'm going to have to reinforce my position on the whole situation and let the fallout happen. I'm bummed about this, but have accepted that I may have to let this girl go if things don't turn around.
This girl hasn't done anything like this slow sex thing before, but I think is trying to stretch her boundaries since her divorce. She really seems like she has had a pretty mundane sex life previously. Whatever, honestly I don't really care if a girl wants to be into some new age sexual mumbo jumbo, however I am DEFINITELY NOT COOL with someone else engaging in a sexual act with a girl who promised sexual exclusivity to me.
This whole situation has thrown me for a bit of a loop, not really sure how I am going to proceed at this point. At first I was pretty open to doing this with her, now I'm not so sure. She said she started reading the book and thinks that the techniques are much more geared towards couples.
I guess the next time I see her I'm going to have to reinforce my position on the whole situation and let the fallout happen. I'm bummed about this, but have accepted that I may have to let this girl go if things don't turn around.