Gaming with Herpes=Game Over? (request for mature perspectives and advice)

[Teiwaz]

Hello, my first post to this forum. While having Herpes is by no means unique to men 25+ I figure my best bet is to talk with more of my seasoned peers, since a search on this forum showed me how juvenile some posters here can be.

I recently re-discovered Game when a good PUA friend of mine directed me to Rollo Tomasi's RationalMale Blog.

None of my PUA friends (including the one who directed me here)have been able to give me solid advice on what to do. Statistically I KNOW I am not the only one on these boards who have to deal with this, though I'm sure most are perhaps too afraid to admit it openly on a forum. I'd like some real advice and perspective here so I only ask that people here be respectful and mature.

I'll be 33 this year, and am learning about Game to better myself and my sex life and relationships. I was raised by a crazy mom who went through multiple divorces and basically raised me to be a prototypical Christian White-Knight AFC Beta. I have much work to do.

A few years back I had sex with a girl and she gave me herpes. Type 1 (which up to 80% of the population has) only on my junk. She claims she didn't know she had it, which may or may not be true, and the fact of the matter is she probably had a sore on her insides meaning it was transmitted through her pvssy juices...in other words, condoms don't help.

So...as you can probably imagine this has me pretty down. While I've not disclosed to every partner I've had, EVERY partner I have disclosed to prior has immediately shunned me sexually. If I play the game of going for an LTR a woman MIGHT consider this, but as a short-term sexual partner why would she risk getting this STD from me when there are plenty of guys who don't have it? (of course the irony is that some of the women who rejected me for this reason of them wanting to fvck a lot more different guys are only increasing the chance they will end up with it).

I know it's wrong to lie or omit this information to a potential partner...but it seems that if I do the right thing and disclose up front I will NEVER be able to truly become a player and have all the sex I want. Please note that I want to Game in real time...I have little to no interest in going on a Herpes dating site and only hooking up with other women with herpes from here on out.

A bit more about me: I am tall (6'7"+), not in the greatest of shape, but working hardcore on getting magnificently ripped and sexy, not the best looking guy ever but still very handsome. I don't have a lot of assets for now but within a few years of continued hard work I'll have a decent 6 figure income. I'm very bright and funny, and a great listener and conversationalist. Basically what I am trying to say is that I have everything going for me EXCEPT this one goddamned thing. In a few years I'm going to be at peak SMV: a tall, very handsome, super fit, successful man...eventually I DO want to find and keep a super-hot woman and have a kick ass super-sexy marriage, but not for the feminine imperative, but my own: I am the last of my direct genetic line and I feel a responsibility to my ancestors to breed and pass these awesome tall handsome genes down for my own legacy.

BUT, I won't be ready for marriage and don't want to have children for at least another 7-10 years, possibly more, and I sure as fvck don't want to be cellibate until then. I want pvssy and lots of it.

SO, I am in this conundrum of do I lie/omit my status as I learn how to successfully sarge, or do I do the "honorable" thing and disclose likely ending up with perpetual rejection? Or do I have to just settle and cash in early for a LTR with the hottest girl who accepts me? Do I have to bite the bullet and resign myself to only hooking up with other chicks with HSV (who are perhaps more apt to try and frame me into an LTR)?

Mind you I've learned that there is now legal precedent that I if a woman gets herpes, or even had it asymptomatically before, but she can prove you knew you had it and didn't tell her, she can sue the pants off of you.

Man...I'm really despondent about all of this, and reaching out to my fellow men on the path of becoming better men for support. It can happen to anyone, the odds are high of catching this disease and my number just came up... :cuss:

 

[HalfAddict]

Your best bet is to find some *****es who have the same problem.. Least that's what I'd do in your shoes...then who cares amirite? Cause you just wanna bone right?

You close to a major city?..check for groups!

 

[Teiwaz]

As stated, I don't want to limit myself to those pools. I want to learn how to be able to go out and sarge successfully anywhere, at any time, with any woman.

 

[Down Low]

"I can do anything I want, anytime I want, and fvck you and anyone else's opinion about it!!!" That's chick think. Stop thinking like a girl. You have responsibilities to other men, to society, and to yourself. Geez! Have a little respect for yourself.

Teiwaz, it should be obvious by now that fvcking whomever you want, whenever you want, is what got you diseased in the first place. Or, you can say it with more meaning: you became a mental degenerate, and the physical degeneracy followed along later. Then, of course, you start rationalizing, and the feminist hamster wheel on the bus goes round and round. Did you forget that there are plenty of other diseases just waiting for you if you continue the same lifestyle?

 

[Teiwaz]

Wow DL. I knew I'd probably get some sh!tty replies but wasn't expecting that.

You also made the mistake of assuming about and insulting me (not that I care what some anonymous person/troll flames me on the internet).

To whit: said girl who infected me, and I dated for 2 months before we had sex that first time. By no means was I a mental or physical degenerate. On paper she was perfect for me, but it still didn't work out.

So, it's not like I've been living this free-wheeling lifestyle.

And...is not one of the cornerstone of Game to be Plate-Spinning? To experience confidence and freedom as a man b y having LOTS of high quality options and ****ing many hot women at once? Is that not part of the journey?

Your comments reek of the Feminine Imperative, and what I am reading between the lines is that I should take on this responsibility for other men and society and bow out of the Game, just as I am waking up to it?

I knew some people were going to be jerks to me on here, but I was hoping for a bit more quality responses...

As for other diseases, the only one worse that I can think of is HIV. All the other one's are curable. I got pretty much the worst one in terms of it being incurable and highly stigmatized, but at least it's not life threatening. My symptoms, on the rare occasion I have an outbreak are minor, but disclosing my status up front gives me the MAJOR symptom of never, ever getting laid by quality women.

So...am I just supposed to give up my sex life forever now, before it's even really begun? It feels that way, and frankly it leaves me feeling a bit suicidal.

This is a serious topic and a cry for help from other men whom are ostensibly supposed to have my back in this anonymous format. Please no more jerk weed replies.

 

[LMFAO]

Have you considered going to the doctor? Not to the sex clinic they are f***ing useless but to a GP. At worst he'll be able to refer you to a specialist or give you some cream to put on your c0ck and balls.:crackup:

 

[Teiwaz]

*sigh*

Perhaps I came to the wrong place with my question. I came here because Rollo Tomassi spoke highly of it on his blog.


There is nothing a doctor can do for herpes aside from suppressive drugs like Valtrex...which are actually WAY worse for my health than the actual virus. Instead I take daily Lysine supplementation which has been shown to be equivalent to Valtrex in terms of suppression but without subjecting myself to what is almost like chemo on my immune system. I eat super clean, get lots of exercise and rest and keep my stress levels manageable.

Which is to say that I still have not received an answer to the core of my question:

Mastery of Game requires sarging lots of women, in lots of different locations, and learning how to become a seducer of them to the point of pulling the trigger and having sex.


I am at odds with the fact that I want to learn game, but disclosing my condition prior to sex almost ESURES that I will never get laid by the women I want.

Like I said it's a depressing enough predicament to make me suicidal. My choice seems to either be an unethical ******* and **** women without telling them, or be an honorable martyr who never gets laid again...


I guess I should not be surprised the advice I get is to just bow out of the Game...I'm sure plenty of guys here really just see me as a tall , good-looking, successful guy that is now no competition to them because of his ethics.

So much for standing up for Men.

 

[Desdinova]

This thread is a bit old, but it may help:

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=64887

 

[Slickster]

You want to be able to sarge and sex without inhibition....

But....

You have a communicable disease....

What are you looking for here? You want people to tell you it's OK to go out and spread it around without telling the women first? All because you want to be a player. That's messed up!

Sorry for your problem but you already know what the right thing to do is.

Gaming other chicks with the same condition might not be so bad....

 

[Teiwaz]

So then I was right...basically game over. No sarging for me. (Btw, sarging as I have learned it means going up to women out in public, at clubs, day game etc. Screening ahead of time or going to groups of HSV+ women is not the same).

I -KNOW- I am not the only guy on here with HSV, and certainly not the only one who goes out and sarges (not that I expect anyone to come out and admit it).

 

[Colossus]

Teiwaz-

There are a couple of ways to look at this:

Herpes has a horrible social stigma for a relatively minor skin disease. It is, however, an STD, and thus poses some ethical questions.

HSV-1 and HSV-2 are different discussions, in my opinion. Seroprevalence ( meaning people who have the virus--whether symptomatic or not--and developed the antibody) of HSV-1 is currently ~60%. You can search PubMed and the CDC website to confirm these stats. These aren't off wikipedia or some blog.

60%. So it is very likely that most women you encounter already have been exposed at some point in their lives and already have the antibody, whether they've ever had a sore or not. Do people go around disclosing they have had cold sores before they kiss? Do you even think to ask? No, of course not.

It's the same damned virus, just in a different location. And it can be transferred from oral-genital and genital-oral. So in other words, a girl who has a cold sore once in a blue moon could give you type 1 herpes on your junk if she blew you in the peri-outbreak period. Crazy huh? But no one would even think to bring it up. It's just a thing that happens.

That's just to give some perspective though. I cant tell you what to do. You're right, you will not live the sarging lifestyle you dream of if you disclose this to every single potential partner. In fact it's out of the question. So you need to ask yourself: Do I go around and potentially spread an already ubiquitous virus for the sole selfish purpose of getting laid? Or, do I take the self-imposed moral high ground and disclose this to every new girl, realizing it precludes a player lifestyle and will change my whole dating landscape...?

Tough call. As you know, having the virus itself is really no big deal, but the social implications are. It's easy for others to sit on their pious high horse and pass judgment on you, but I guarantee you if they were in your shoes their "morality" would suddenly become a bit more flexible. It's gotta be your decision, man. Every single time.

 

[Teiwaz]

Thanks Colossus, that was more in line with the kind of rational response and understanding of the dilemma I was hoping to find.

I guess I am just still hoping for some kind of third option. I mean...I've already had a taste of this "change in my whole dating landscape." It goes something like, disclosure=rejection=I have failed from the SMP...for something as you noted is really just a numbers game of roulette for anyone who engages in any kind of sexual activity.

What is done is done. I am HSV1 positive, and all of the wishful thinking or denial, or anger in the world won't change that.

As I said, I've had a particularly rough time unplugging, raised as I was by a Christian single mom and the string of boyfriends or stepfathers (and there were many), most of who she drove to insanity/violence by her endless nagging, manipulation, and resource-sucking. I was raised to see those men as the villains, and her as my only source of security in an uncertain world.

I want to be free. I want to experience myself as the badass naturally dominant man I can be.

One frame I've considered taking is that by taking the noble route and disclosing, even knowing that I face rejection...and somehow finding a way to be okay with it, and keep pursuing other potential options...if I could truly pull off that kind of ability to be content being alone, is a form of Alpha. Or is that just the feminized conditioning? So many layers of mental bull**** it's hard to tell.

What's worse is I've had this beta AFC mentality for so long that I've missed out on opportunity after opportunity, because I was holding out for my soul mate.

Now I want to be free. I want to finally be able to attain all the wonderful sex I've denied myself for so long...but because I have this sense of honor and ethics, I'm fvcked (or rather not fvcked). It reduces me to a "take what I can get" level of deprivation. It gets in the way of my fulfillment and needs as a man. It's really hard.

 

[switch]

Thanks Colossus, that was more in line with the kind of rational response and understanding of the dilemma I was hoping to find.

I guess I am just still hoping for some kind of third option. I mean...I've already had a taste of this "change in my whole dating landscape." It goes something like, discl.......

1. soul mate is BS
2.don't fvck anything that comes your way, SCREEN first, will u fuk a girl knowing she was a max.security prisoner just a week ago?
3.pvssy is not everything in life
4.its good to be tall ... (im 5'8" )
5.95% of asians contract herpes before adolescence ,it aint a big deal, americans are anal about a lot of useless sh!t, this is one of 'em.

 

[zekko]

A man's risk of catching an STD increases as:

1) he sleeps around more
2) he doesn't screen well​

Careful, Down Low, you're going to be unpopular with the PUA crowd talking like that. The Community, for the most part, tends to believe that the threat of STDs is vastly exaggerated. In fact, I'm surprised you haven't been accused of "feminine shaming" for bringing up the possibility that one could be contracted, and especially for inferring that there is any downside at all to promiscuity.

 

[Colossus]

Thanks Colossus, that was more in line with the kind of rational response and understanding of the dilemma I was hoping to find.

I guess I am just still hoping for some kind of third option. I mean...I've already had a taste of this "change in my whole dating landscape." It goes something like, disclosure=rejection=I have failed from the SMP...for something as you noted is really just a numbers game of roulette for anyone who engages in any kind of sexual activity.

What is done is done. I am HSV1 positive, and all of the wishful thinking or denial, or anger in the world won't change that.

As I said, I've had a particularly rough time unplugging, raised as I was by a Christian single mom and the string of boyfriends or stepfathers (and there were many), most of who she drove to insanity/violence by her endless nagging, manipulation, and resource-sucking. I was raised to see those men as the villains, and her as my only source of security in an uncertain world.

I want to be free. I want to experience myself as the badass naturally dominant man I can be.

One frame I've considered taking is that by taking the noble route and disclosing, even knowing that I face rejection...and somehow finding a way to be okay with it, and keep pursuing other potential options...if I could truly pull off that kind of ability to be content being alone, is a form of Alpha. Or is that just the feminized conditioning? So many layers of mental bull**** it's hard to tell.

What's worse is I've had this beta AFC mentality for so long that I've missed out on opportunity after opportunity, because I was holding out for my soul mate.

Now I want to be free. I want to finally be able to attain all the wonderful sex I've denied myself for so long...but because I have this sense of honor and ethics, I'm fvcked (or rather not fvcked). It reduces me to a "take what I can get" level of deprivation. It gets in the way of my fulfillment and needs as a man. It's really hard.

You seem like a smart guy, it's unfortunate you haven't gotten more thoughtful responses here. The MM forum of sosuave used to be such a goldmine of positive wisdom...not so much anymore.

But I digress. You're using a lot of contemporary game lingo in your posts, which tells me you are doing a lot of reading. This can be good and bad. The "manosphere" can be a great resource to unlpug your mind from feminized conditioning, but it can also be a hindrance and even a toxin to some degree. What I see in guys who are really entrenched in this stuff is an exaggerated cynicism and objectification of women. Yeah, I know, feminists love to use that phrase; but when you look at every new female as a walking cvm receptacle, and how you can most efficiently use her for that, that's exactly what it is.

I dont think that's what the founders of this site or modern 'game' had intended, but for various reasons that's what it's become. At any rate it's totally natural and even healthy for a guy to want to experience many different types of women before he picks one to ride off into the sunset with. One of the hallmarks of an AFC is he lacks breadth of experience with women. Experiences can be fun, not so fun, and sometimes costly, but they help make a man what he is.

So, back to the herpes dilemma. One approach you could take is to prolong actual sex with new girls as long as humanly possible, which would give you time to see if you want her in your roster and time for her to 'bond' with you a little more, which would leave her more open and accepting of the news when you do break it. I think you are psyching yourself out when you say you cannot game period----game encompasses everything from approaching a girl to an LTR. So in a sense you have an advantage in that you know you wont be sexing a girl right away, so you'll come off more casual.

I'll share a little tidbit with you---I also have HSV-1. I've mentioned it on this board a few times in the past. It's not end-game, but it has changed my outlook. For me, I had already slept with a lot of women before I got it, so being more choosy and slow now isn't a huge issue for me. Also, ignore everyone's judgment on here. They will all sing the praises of their pump and dump lifestyle, but they are taking the same risks we did every time they go up to bat, condoms or not. Our numbers were just called.

I still struggle with the decision with every new girl. I think a lot of it depends on how and WHEN you break it to them. Date 3---probably game over. But after she has bonded with you...she may be more receptive. I tell them that her risk of contracting it is no greater than if I have a history of "cold sores". Which isnt a lie, it's true. It's just that damned stigma that snags them.

Stuff to think about.

 

[Boilermaker]

Well, OP, you have lost some of your fundamental manhood and freedom when you forgot to pay attention somewhere.

Now you have an STD, and you either can be an asshøle and spread the virus without telling anybody,

or you become a weakling trying to strategize when to break your "condition" to every single girl you meet.

How can you be a natural alpha while those are in your head?

Sleeping around is overrated. There are consequences in real life. Pay attention.

Good luck...

 

[JulieWatson31]

I like the thread apart from the unhelpful comments along the way.

The posts by Colossus make sense as usual and are well noted.

The stigma with Herpes is huge but overrated IMHO.

 

[Teiwaz]

Yeah, I have been doing a lot of reading lately, and realizing a lot of this stuff too late. I have a girl I really like, you can call her a ONEitis if you like, though she really does appeal to me more than most girls I've ever met, and I mean more than just physically, though there is that too. She is ex-counterintellignce which should give you just a hint to how badass she is.

Anyways, we had an awesome date about a month ago and I didn't see it then because I was still in a waiting mindset, but I can see now that I had the PERFECT opportunity to escalate more aggressively, and I didn't and now that moment is gone.

Since then she has been dodgy about responding to texts or making plans to see me again. I know the community answer is to just NEXT her, to which I am taking the Tactical NEXT, and withdrawing...I committed internally to not reach out to her for at least another month, and see if she decides to reach out to me. If not, well...as per my reading, the medium is the message.

Anyways, I am really grateful to have found the manosphere, and I think it really is helping me see myself in a more positive light, deal with how I raised to be a chump, and take back control and pride in my life. It's just hard looking back and seeing how I let SO MANY opportunities slip through my fingers, because I was too scared to, or frankly didn't understand how to, follow my own instincts (Christianity is a mind**** man).

Anyways thanks Colossus, and the other helpful commenters. It's nice to know I'm not alone, and dating isn't over.

Frankly, I DO want an LTR, for reasons of my own I've said, but my childhood showed me to be DAMN selective about who I have kids with, because I want to break the cycle and not have my kids grow up with a broken family...so yeah, that is a MUCH more empowering place to come from...screening women before giving up the goods.

 

[Bible_Belt]

Stop being a hypochondriac. Genital HSV-1 rarely even re-occurs after the initial outbreak. It's the same with getting oral HSV-2. Each virus is different. HSV-1 almost always needs to be on the mouth to re-occur. When you tell people you have herpes, they are thinking HSV-2, the type that does keep coming back on your crotch.

Unless you have a sore, I think it's foolish to tell women you have herpes. The majority of them will test positive for HSV-1 antibodies anyway. And unless she's a virgin, she'll be carrying HPV that she can transmit to you. Even if she is a virgin, she will still likely carry a pox virus called molluscum contagiosum. Condoms cut the transmission rates by about 50%, which makes them half useless for viruses that are spread by skin to skin contact. Condoms will keep you from getting a lot of much worse STDs, though, like hepatitis.

So my advice is to stop being a hypochondriac, shut up about everything, and go live your life.

 

[Colossus]

Stop being a hypochondriac. Genital HSV-1 rarely even re-occurs after the initial outbreak. It's the same with getting oral HSV-2. Each virus is different. HSV-1 almost always needs to be on the mouth to re-occur. When you tell people you have herpes, they are thinking HSV-2, the type that does keep coming back on your crotch.

Unless you have a sore, I think it's foolish to tell women you have herpes. The majority of them will test positive for HSV-1 antibodies anyway. And unless she's a virgin, she'll be carrying HPV that she can transmit to you. Even if she is a virgin, she will still likely carry a pox virus called molluscum contagiosum. Condoms cut the transmission rates by about 50%, which makes them half useless for viruses that are spread by skin to skin contact. Condoms will keep you from getting a lot of much worse STDs, though, like hepatitis.

So my advice is to stop being a hypochondriac, shut up about everything, and go live your life.

I'm inclined to agree with you here.

One problem though---what if a girl DOES get it from you?? Then what. That puts you in a position to either straight up lie, tell a half-truth, or fess up and face the wrath of a woman who just found out she has the dreaded herpes (the general public has no clue about types) and you were a carrier all along.

Facts are facts and with HSV-1 it's almost silly to make an issue out of it, but there's always that small possibility she gets an acute case, and then you got some 'splainin' to do.