Friendzone is a MYTH

[Black Widow Void]

You not only make some valid points, but also added some food for thought that I'd yet to consider.

I suspect (as I've mentioned in previous threads) that a lot of the push-back that you're receiving is due to lack of actual experience. I think that probably half the members here speak on what they've read VS their actual experiences.

I'll add a theory that so far hasn't been addressed.
There were times when I knew that a particular type of gal that liked me. This was the type of girl that I was neutral about. I didn't find her unattractive, but also didn't view her as attractive. In other words... this was the type of gal that I never thought about, desired or even lusted. *But* because I knew that she liked me, I figured what the heck.

I think that most of us here have seen someone due to the "I like you because you like me" type situation. It fills an empty slot and is better than an empty Friday night, but it's nothing we're really going to miss when it finally ends.

Let's reverse that. We're aggressively pursing some gal that has no idea if she's into us or not. She figures "what the heck, there's nothing remotely disqualifying about him and so why not." This is really no different than we men being in one of those "I like you because you like me" situations. The woman is going along for the ride, but we didn't create the slow burn (her gradually getting emotionally invested). In other words, she can take or leave us ... just as we could take or leave the gal we were neutral about.

This might sound like an odd metaphor, but here goes:
(to borrow an old song) Let's say that "Love is like Oxygen." If one party takes all or most of it in the room, this leaves very little for the other party to consume. One party is riding high on life and the other barely has a pulse. I've learned that if you aren't stingy with the 'oxygen tank' , you'll get better returns.

 

[Stoic]

Yeah a viable strategy to get used lol

Robert28, respectfully, your attitude and mindset is what is holding you back.

 

[Robert28]

Robert28, respectfully, your attitude and mindset is what is holding you back.

Maybe so. But I will never change my opinion about the friendzone or being friends with women. Been there done that, burned twice. I want my attitude to hold me back from the FZ honestly.

 

[Stoic]

Maybe so. But I will never change my opinion about the friendzone or being friends with women. Been there done that, burned twice. I want my attitude to hold me back from the FZ honestly.

But mindset and attitude is what keeps you OUT of the friend zone.

 

[Robert28]

But mindset and attitude is what keeps you OUT of the friend zone.

It’s only happened twice in 38 years so that’s not a bad average.

 

[GreatHornedOwl]

We hung out as "friends" the following weekend. The weekend after we had sex.

 

[3agle 3yes]

I'm reviving this old thread because this is the first time I've seen it since I last posted.

This is so backwards. So you're not friends with any women you sleep with? Do you hate them or objectify them? Why the hell do you sleep with them then? You think people that have been married 30 years aren't best friends AND banging each other's brains out?

Do you know what a friend is? A friend is someone with whom you have a platonic relationship.

There are plenty of people I don't hate or objectify that aren't my friends. Why make the assumption these things are binary?

Just because you go out with a woman and know her personally, that doesn't make you her friend...you're more or less acquaintances at that point.

Again, this might be where the confusion is. People you see casually aren't your friends, especially when you've met them recently.

Friends are people you've known for a while and people you see regularly. I want to note this distinction because once a woman has formed an impression of you, it's almost impossible the change it.

Couples who have been married for 30 years aren't "banging each other's brains out" I can assure you, they've moved past that stage. Besides, marriage or even a long-term relationship is a different ball game. Most guys in the friendzone are most certainly not in a long-term relationship with the woman or married to them.

Typically, this forum is about meeting women, going on dates and flirting etc...tell me how being a friend with a woman has worked out for you in the past?

When a woman likes you as a friend she'll tell you anything. If you're not some sensitive insecure jacka$s then you'll assert your boundaries in a charming, effortless way so that these interactions are always enjoyable for you.

Exactly, she'll tell you things like; how the man she's going out with won't return her calls, and she'll expect you to give her an answer.

Listen, I don't know how many women you've been with or if you're just posing, but think about it for a moment. If a woman feels it's okay to tell you anything, it means either she doesn't care what you think, or she knows you'll always accept her regardless; that's not how attraction works.

Also, if she will tell you anything about herself, she'll expect you to do the same (or most likely, you've already told her a lot about yourself); this completely kills the mystery that generates a huge chunk of the attraction to you in the first place.

Society has standards. If you're in a class at school, you'll expect the teacher to teach and the students to listen. If you're in an interview, you'll expect the interviewer to ask questions and the interviewee to answer them.

If you have a friendship with a woman, she expects you not to be sexual towards her; if you do, it'll make her uncomfortable.

People like to know what's going on, and if you've set a standard, anything but that standard will weird people out.

Female friends invite you places with other women, hook you up with friends, disarm other women, put in good words for you, play excellent wing women, the list goes on.

Yeah, did you even read my initial post?

I agree that you don't have to bang every woman you interact with, and you can be friends. It even gives you access to more women (her friends).

 

[EyeOnThePrize]

Do you know what a friend is? A friend is someone with whom you have a platonic relationship.

I've banged many a friends, sometimes it's a one off spur of the moment, sometimes I can sense it's been building for months or years, sometimes fwb starts or something more serious develops. You said it yourself, it's not binary, relationships can flow between any number of categories at any time. Not allowing that flow is doing yourself a disservice.

Just because you go out with a woman and know her personally, that doesn't make you her friend...you're more or less acquaintances at that point.

Again, this might be where the confusion is. People you see casually aren't your friends, especially when you've met them recently.

Friends are people you've known for a while and people you see regularly. I want to note this distinction because once a woman has formed an impression of you, it's almost impossible the change it.

You're splitting hairs, there is no downside to having female friends or acquaintances if you know how to assert boundaries. Who gives a fuuck what designation they give you in their mind? Your goal shouldn't be to try and change that, but instead to live your life per usual.

Couples who have been married for 30 years aren't "banging each other's brains out" I can assure you, they've moved past that stage. Besides, marriage or even a long-term relationship is a different ball game. Most guys in the friendzone are most certainly not in a long-term relationship with the woman or married to them.

Again it's a continuum, some sure are. Most guys don't put women in their own friendzone because they're desperate short-sighted simps that get frustrated easily.

Typically, this forum is about meeting women, going on dates and flirting etc...tell me how being a friend with a woman has worked out for you in the past?

I don't overextend myself with them, so I have no complaints about whether they fuuck me or whatever, I'm not expecting something. I've had business connections manifest, random lays, places to stay while traveling, companions while traveling, all sorts of stuff by being friends with women.

Listen, I don't know how many women you've been with or if you're just posing, but think about it for a moment. If a woman feels it's okay to tell you anything, it means either she doesn't care what you think, or she knows you'll always accept her regardless; that's not how attraction works.

Not sure how you quoted that sentence without reading the part about asserting boundaries. When a woman fears telling you something because she thinks you'll overreact or get emotional then she'll hide it from you, which isn't exactly a recipe for longevity. If you don't think attraction is about accepting your partner as they are and simply inspiring them to be a better fit for you then you'll have to explain yourself, because being tyranical or controlling will typically backfire.

Also, if she will tell you anything about herself, she'll expect you to do the same (or most likely, you've already told her a lot about yourself); this completely kills the mystery that generates a huge chunk of the attraction to you in the first place.

Mystery is great but what's much better is simply standing behind who you actually are. If she doesn't explicitly ask I don't volunteer personal information. Any expectation for me to share without solicitation is silly to me, as there's been no request, no interest shown. The only dudes concerned about maintaining a shroud of mystery are too enamored with some PUA bs.

If you have a friendship with a woman, she expects you not to be sexual towards her; if you do, it'll make her uncomfortable.

Some women sure, other women will be your friend and constantly drop IOI, and then there's women in between. You're painting with too broad a stroke.

People like to know what's going on, and if you've set a standard, anything but that standard will weird people out.

Again super broad and oversimplified. I'm not even sure what kind of standard you're talking about.

Yeah, did you even read my initial post?

I read the entire thread, is this your way of saying we're in agreement? Not sure what the problem is here.

 

[Robert28]

Being friends with women just doesn’t work for me. It just doesn’t. Usually what happens (twice) is we start out liking each other and I try to take it to the next level (thinking it’s going somewhere) only for them to keep shutting me down. So I am of the mindset “ok she was liking me, I’ve tried to move this along but now it’s like she doesn’t like me anymore” and then comes the “I want to be friends” but they usually aren’t that direct about it. The only way that has ever worked for me is to meet a girl (cold approach) and get her out as soon as possible and as long as she doesn’t shut down my advances I never get friendzoned or rejected. The problem is the two girls that friendzoned me had just gotten out of a relationship and we went on dates and looking back now I was just there to fill a void. They weren’t really attracted to me since they wouldn’t let it go further than casual dating. Then they friendzoned me but yet we’re still very aggressive in keeping in contact with me. That’s confusing as sh!t. Sorry it just is. It’s immature women that do that anyways I’ve learned. I like the women that can reject me and let me go about my way. I refuse to be friends with women now due to bad experiences. I want nothing to do with their friendship and they can shove it up their ass for all I care.

 

[darksprezzatura]

Idk what kind of thought process women follow.

Idk what they prefer or like or dislike.

What I know is not a myth is:

LACK OF COMPLIANCE.

When a woman doesn't feel comfortable to follow my directions, I move on.

 

[Scars]

Call it whatever you want, but there is a point during your communication with a woman where you've fvcked it up beyond saving. You have absolutely zero chance of dating her or fvcking her because you either failed a sh!t test, wasn't her "type", or screwed your game up some how.

When a girl has mentally decided that she will NEVER have sex with you, this is the friendzone. She's willing to be "friends" and allow you to orbit her, but she will never date you or truly respect you.

 

[3agle 3yes]

Call it whatever you want, but there is a point during your communication with a woman where you've fvcked it up beyond saving...When a girl has mentally decided that she will NEVER have sex with you, this is the friendzone. She's willing to be "friends" and allow you to orbit her, but she will never date you or truly respect you.

Yes, this. I couldn't find a way to explain it properly, which is unusual for me. The "friendzone" isn't about female friends, but it's a state in a relationship with a woman, where she doesn't see you as an attractive man but only as a "friend", and there's nothing you can do to change it.

@EyeOnThePrize What I meant in my initial post (the friend/lover dichotomy) is that being "friendly" typically means doing things so the woman will like you; this doesn't mean you should do things that make her hate you. It just means having standards and sticking to those standards no matter what.

As OP stated, don't go to a woman's place and unclog her bathroom sink (don't try to make her like you). You should, however, do things that make her feel attracted to you.

A friend will answer her call at 4 am and listen to her complain about her "jerk" boss at work for hours.

A lover would ignore the call, call her the next day and end the conversation if she started complaining about her "jerk" boss. It's not about being an *******, but listening to her complain about someone is what her friends are for, not you.

 

[manfrombelow]

Call it whatever you want, but there is a point during your communication with a woman where you've fvcked it up beyond saving. You have absolutely zero chance of dating her or fvcking her because you either failed a sh!t test, wasn't her "type", or screwed your game up some how.

When a girl has mentally decided that she will NEVER have sex with you, this is the friendzone. She's willing to be "friends" and allow you to orbit her, but she will never date you or truly respect you.

Couldn't agree more!!!

 

[MatureDJ]

There is nothing inherently wrong with FriendZoneMaxxing if the chick is not involved with anyone else - in such a situation, she is involved with you, just at a low level; this could actually be a good thing in that such a chick would not have a high body count. Of course, the downside is that such a chick could be looking to trade up on the side, in which case you would be a Beta-in-Waiting. Obviously, such a chick is not worthy of OneitisMaxxing, so the FriendZoner should continue to try to get other plates - and only get going with her if she is ready to escalate the relationship. And certainly a FriendZoner must not tolerate the chick talking about other men as romantic possibilities; the FriendZoner must make it clear that he does not with to hear about that (doing this would actually be passing a sheet test).

Let's face the facts, non-Chad-tier men cannot win by standard PlateMaxxing - having a slow-burn relationship is better than nothing. Indeed, I could see the situation in which the PUA maintains a harem of FriendPlates, thereby introducing competition game in his harem to motivate one (or more) to start sexing him.

 

[MatureDJ]

use all the paths available.

 

[MatureDJ]

Yeah a viable strategy to get used lol

The key is not to get used; if a FriendPlate is using the PUA, he needs to GhostMax.

 

[Aesthetix29]

Being friends with women just doesn’t work for me. It just doesn’t. Usually what happens (twice) is we start out liking each other and I try to take it to the next level (thinking it’s going somewhere) only for them to keep shutting me down. So I am of the mindset “ok she was liking me, I’ve tried to move this along but now it’s like she doesn’t like me anymore” and then comes the “I want to be friends” but they usually aren’t that direct about it. The only way that has ever worked for me is to meet a girl (cold approach) and get her out as soon as possible and as long as she doesn’t shut down my advances I never get friendzoned or rejected. The problem is the two girls that friendzoned me had just gotten out of a relationship and we went on dates and looking back now I was just there to fill a void. They weren’t really attracted to me since they wouldn’t let it go further than casual dating. Then they friendzoned me but yet we’re still very aggressive in keeping in contact with me. That’s confusing as sh!t. Sorry it just is. It’s immature women that do that anyways I’ve learned. I like the women that can reject me and let me go about my way. I refuse to be friends with women now due to bad experiences. I want nothing to do with their friendship and they can shove it up their ass for all I care.

Bro this is exactly what happened to me ... I’d rather just move on, I made my move she went all weird on me, and expects me too just stick around and be her mate .. not happening. I mean we was doing all the things that couples do except the sex ... like even now she keeps messaging asking what I’m up to and do I want to go on walks days out etc. It’s weird. She loves the attention. In fact she thrives off it, I now see it for what it is (breadcrumbs) even on social media it’s all about the likes. But she’s not even that pretty especially without the makeup. I’m not going to help her get on that pedestal ... she even has her very own minions (orbiters) that like everything she puts on social media .. like it’s the same people all the time ha ha.

Took me a while to realise this. But now I’m outside the box, can see it a mike off.

Watch the jealousy kick in once I meet someone else!

 

[Scars]

Hasn't happened to me. I don't project this kind of energy, so it's not my reality. This may be why some guys believe the FZ is real and others see it as a frame fail. It's just not a part of my vocabulary. (Some guys are defining it as simping, which is different.)

Note, this doesn't mean I fukk every girl I meet. Just means that I don't put myself in the "friendzone" or frame my dynamic with a girl that way.

IME, sex with female friends has been a net positive. Not everything has to be about dating.

I doubt this. You're trying to tell me that 100% of the women you meet and approach all have sex with you? I call BS.

You've definitely been friend-zoned. We all have.

You can project any kind of "energy" you want. If a woman decides she doesn't wanna fvck you, there is slim chance you can change that. I'm not saying it's impossible, but your odds are better spent on obtaining a new chick.

Usually I agree with you on things samspade.. but I don't know where you're going with things here. Maybe you're saying you don't "allow" women to friendzone you. Sure. Maybe you see it coming before it happens and eject.. that is a fair statement. But to say you've never been "friendzoned" ever and that it's "not in your vocabulary".. calm on man.

I've been here since 2007 and you've been here since 2008. We need to help these youngsters, not brag about ourselves. We all know you got game. You've proved that many times over.

 

[Scars]

I used to have 100% masculine interests and I was never friendzoned because I didn't bring anything to the table friends-wise to women. It really was dating or nothing. By friendzone I mean when they actually try to keep you around as friends, they had no reason to. I know a lot of guys in the construction business like this, they just rarely have female friends in general, much less friendzoned. Now, I have a lot of female friends and it happens often. I don't believe either way is better or worse.

I agree. You can read my initial post. It's not the act of being friends with women, it's more/less how they perceive you as a friend.

Call it whatever you want, but there is a point during your communication with a woman where you've fvcked it up beyond saving. You have absolutely zero chance of dating her or fvcking her because you either failed a sh!t test, wasn't her "type", or screwed your game up some how.

When a girl has mentally decided that she will NEVER have sex with you, this is the friendzone. She's willing to be "friends" and allow you to orbit her, but she will never date you or truly respect you.

 

[Robert28]

Bro this is exactly what happened to me ... I’d rather just move on, I made my move she went all weird on me, and expects me too just stick around and be her mate .. not happening. I mean we was doing all the things that couples do except the sex ... like even now she keeps messaging asking what I’m up to and do I want to go on walks days out etc. It’s weird. She loves the attention. In fact she thrives off it, I now see it for what it is (breadcrumbs) even on social media it’s all about the likes. But she’s not even that pretty especially without the makeup. I’m not going to help her get on that pedestal ... she even has her very own minions (orbiters) that like everything she puts on social media .. like it’s the same people all the time ha ha.

Took me a while to realise this. But now I’m outside the box, can see it a mike off.

Watch the jealousy kick in once I meet someone else!

She’s most likely a manipulator or a narcissist. I fell for that crap with one of the girls that friendzoned me. I fell for it because I’d never had experience with a woman who was a master manipulator. Now I’m skeptical about ALL women after that experience. Believe me when I tell you nothing will change if you hangout with her, you won’t date her or get to have sex, she’s just setting you up to be used down the road. All those guys that like her stuff? They were all in your position at one time, so just remember that. She’s trying to make you be one of them. Looking back on my experience it all makes so much sense now.