FR: A Big Fat NO to Kiss

[grayclif]

We're hanging out at the bar. Conversation goes well lots of kino. My story telling skills were on point all evening. Date lasted maybe 3 hours. Well about 3/4 into the evening she's looking me dead in the eye and we were really close I decide to go for the kiss and I get a big fat NO. I continue with our conversation like nothing happened. It bothered me but I think I played it off well. We had a few more drinks and laughs.

This hasnt happened to me before. Normally I'll get the kiss even if it's a simple peck. But tonight was an emphatic NO.

She mentioned on our last date almost under her breath that she was seeing someone. I heard her, acknowledged it and changed the subject.

So the date ends, I walk her to her car and I get a warm hug and then later two goodnight texts which I dont respond to.

A few texts this morning which she initiates. And a more this evening which she also initiates.

I'm curious as to what her reasons for contacting me again for if she was so uninterested in kissing. Ideas???

 

[PrettyBoyAJ]

Question my friend, did you pay for all the drinks or did you split it?

 

[grayclif]

Question my friend, did you pay for all the drinks or did you split it?

She offered to chip in but I paid. I'm really bad at accepting offers. I accepted her offer to split on our first date however.

 

[PrettyBoyAJ]

Well, for me personally I have a three date rule.

This means that the girl has 3 dates to sleep with me. 80% of the time I sleep with a girl, it is on the first date. For you, however I think she may be just using you for company. I mean you've been on multiple dates with this girl and you still haven't kissed her. She definitely must be seeing someone. If I were you I'd put the pressure on her. Either put up or shut up. So invite her to your crib for some wine and a movie. If she accepts then cool, if she counter-offers I would decline.

It's time to either get moving, or get gone.

 

[Once Bitten]

I think she's just using you for company.

Next time, you forgot your wallet. If she bolts, you have your answer. If she offers to buy, proceed with caution...

 

[guru1000]

I can think of at least a dozen women like you mentioned who had rejected my kiss attempt multiple times on the first date or two, which eventually progressed to sex. One ended as a 5-year relationship; the other a one-year. Some women view kissing as intimate as sex!

On your next date, I want you to try to kiss her no less than four times. Be shameless. If she rejects all four kiss attempts, get up, pay the bill (or not), leave her there, and walk out.

Report back to us.

 

[Scaramouche]

Dear Greycliff,
Above the Thread Chapters list for this site there are a number of "Featured Articles"fro SS...this week there is an excellent article headed,"The power of persistence"by Alan Thomson...I think you might gain a little benefit from reading it....I suppose there are several rationalisations of this Girls behaviour,I would say she is being loyal to an absent partner or Friend,but is really bored,she likes you,but that's the end of it...If you cant get a good night kiss after three dates,she is not at all interested in a svexual relationship...I would end this stale mate by organising an after work coffee meet,during which gently let her know,how much you enjoy her company,but as it doesn't seem to be progressing, it might be best to just stay in touch...Then just move on...If you had a few plates spinning,you wouldn't be posting this.

 

[KingBeef]

View attachment 364

We're hanging out at the bar. Conversation goes well lots of kino. My story telling skills were on point all evening. Date lasted maybe 3 hours. Well about 3/4 into the evening she's looking me dead in the eye and we were really close I decide to go for the kiss and I get a big fat NO. I continue with our conversation like nothing happened. It bothered me but I think I played it off well. We had a few more drinks and laughs.

This hasnt happened to me before. Normally I'll get the kiss even if it's a simple peck. But tonight was an emphatic NO.

She mentioned on our last date almost under her breath that she was seeing someone. I heard her, acknowledged it and changed the subject.

So the date ends, I walk her to her car and I get a warm hug and then later two goodnight texts which I dont respond to.

A few texts this morning which she initiates. And a more this evening which she also initiates.

I'm curious as to what her reasons for contacting me again for if she was so uninterested in kissing. Ideas???

She got your free booze...you were just there for her entertainment. Be grateful it wasn't a meal. Get rid of her and never contact again.

 

[BeExcellent]

Not every woman is going to kiss you on the first date. I would almost wonder, with her wanting to pay her own way if she is actually trying to signal that she isn't into you like that. There are women who think that by paying (or offering to pay) they are sending the message that they are not interested.

Other times women may be more cautious romantically, not yet comfortable enough, etc. Some are downright shy. I did not kiss my ex-husband on the first several dates even though I found him very sexy. I wanted to be certain he liked me and was not toying with me since he had many women to choose from, and I also wanted the tension and desire to build (both for myself and for him.)

In her particular case I think she is fence sitting really but is trying to feel like in her mind she didn't breach whatever situation she is in with the other guy she is seeing. She may like you but she is already seeing someone and perhaps feels bad about allowing herself to kiss someone else. She thinks she has disclosed it to you and set boundaries, but you aren't staying in bounds, which she isn't sure what to do about. She's uncomfortable. That's how I read it as a woman.

Uncomfortable is not necessarily a bad thing. You are on her mind, hence all the texts she has sent you. Your silence is building tension (to a point).

Nexting over this is for amateur night. You are an experienced dude. Watch the rest of her actions. If you like her see her again. Go for a walk or do something else that is altogether free. You do not want to come off as over-eager either, as it can be a turn off, but each interaction between two people is different and one must learn to read the demeanor of the other party.

Sometimes I think people here get too caught up in what they are doing and they forget to pay attention to the cues the woman is giving. Continuing to try and kiss may work or it may completely backfire with someone who you otherwise might have had a shot with.

I've personally experienced both the confidently persistent approach (the article on the other part of the site is very good IMO) and eventually kissed the guy but I've had many more instances when it was a total turn off and gave me the impression that the guy was a selfish a$$. I've also had first dates where I was delighted to be kissed. There is not a one size fits all solution to this situation. You need to read the interaction as it occurs and take whatever action is most in line with the rapport you have built to that point.

 

[daddymonsterpoodle]

The girl I am seeing now we went out together 4 or 5 times before anything more than light kino happened. Now we have a crazy physical chemistry and I am having some of the best sex of my life. The difference is I trusted my judgement and was sure there was attraction. By not pushing it and being myself she could feel comfortable with me and let her defences down. If I hadnt thought there was attraction I would have not continued.

I think once you have made it clear with eye contact, light kino and a little flirting that you are not their new BFF but a sexual man you can take your time in my experience. Be laid back and confident, and they will go nuts trying to work out why you arent chasing when your intention is clear.

Let the hamster work for you.

 

[grayclif]

Dear Greycliff,
Above the Thread Chapters list for this site there are a number of "Featured Articles"fro SS...this week there is an excellent article headed,"The power of persistence"by Alan Thomson...I think you might gain a little benefit from reading it....I suppose there are several rationalisations of this Girls behaviour,I would say she is being loyal to an absent partner or Friend,but is really bored,she likes you,but that's the end of it...If you cant get a good night kiss after three dates,she is not at all interested in a svexual relationship...I would end this stale mate by organising an after work coffee meet,during which gently let her know,how much you enjoy her company,but as it doesn't seem to be progressing, it might be best to just stay in touch...Then just move on...If you had a few plates spinning,you wouldn't be posting this.

Scara my concern is not so much that she likes me, though i think she does, but rather getting some input as to the why's. My first few dates routine has been flawless lately and ive experienced so much success. I was a bit surprised to discover that my stuff didn't work. At the moment I have 2 other plates going.

 

[Desdinova]

Well about 3/4 into the evening she's looking me dead in the eye and we were really close I decide to go for the kiss and I get a big fat NO.

I usually let the woman initiate the move for the first kiss, and it's usually at the end of the night. Occasionally it doesn't happen until the second date, but those are the rare exceptions. Sometimes you need to give a woman time to dump the guy that she's already seeing, which you may or may not know about.

 

[grayclif]

Not every woman is going to kiss you on the first date. I would almost wonder, with her wanting to pay her own way if she is actually trying to signal that she isn't into you like that. There are women who think that by paying (or offering to pay) they are sending the message that they are not interested.

Other times women may be more cautious romantically, not yet comfortable enough, etc. Some are downright shy. I did not kiss my ex-husband on the first several dates even though I found him very sexy. I wanted to be certain he liked me and was not toying with me since he had many women to choose from, and I also wanted the tension and desire to build (both for myself and for him.)

In her particular case I think she is fence sitting really but is trying to feel like in her mind she didn't breach whatever situation she is in with the other guy she is seeing. She may like you but she is already seeing someone and perhaps feels bad about allowing herself to kiss someone else. She thinks she has disclosed it to you and set boundaries, but you aren't staying in bounds, which she isn't sure what to do about. She's uncomfortable. That's how I read it as a woman.

Uncomfortable is not necessarily a bad thing. You are on her mind, hence all the texts she has sent you. Your silence is building tension (to a point).

Nexting over this is for amateur night. You are an experienced dude. Watch the rest of her actions. If you like her see her again. Go for a walk or do something else that is altogether free. You do not want to come off as over-eager either, as it can be a turn off, but each interaction between two people is different and one must learn to read the demeanor of the other party.

Sometimes I think people here get too caught up in what they are doing and they forget to pay attention to the cues the woman is giving. Continuing to try and kiss may work or it may completely backfire with someone who you otherwise might have had a shot with.

I've personally experienced both the confidently persistent approach (the article on the other part of the site is very good IMO) and eventually kissed the guy but I've had many more instances when it was a total turn off and gave me the impression that the guy was a selfish a$$. I've also had first dates where I was delighted to be kissed. There is not a one size fits all solution to this situation. You need to read the interaction as it occurs and take whatever action is most in line with the rapport you have built to that point.

@BeExcellent I know that "I wanna be kissed look" and to this point picking up on it has never failed me until then.

After our first date id made the decision not to ask her out again because I figured her boyfriend issues would be her concern not mine.

I think her interest level is moderatly high. I'll continue to be C&F and aloof but I'll wait for her to ask me out.

I see her a few days a week non socially. In that situation there is an old FWB who interacts with me and I've seen her observe this intreaction. My friendliness with this former plate is influencing her behaviour. Very interesting.

 

[The Duke]

Lots of good info here. I've tried to be understanding of women like this but it usually comes back to bite me. Anymore, if they aren't moving fast enough for me....I'm out. If she is not willing or too good for a simple kiss on a first date then we probably aren't going to be compatible.

Someone that won't kiss on a first date probably isn't going to be a p0rnstar in the bedroom and thats what I like. Do you really think a girl that won't kiss, will want to suck on your di_k? Someone that won't kiss on a first date likely over values themselves. The other possibilities are she is seeing other guys or she used you for conversation/drinks.

A few weeks ago, I had a HB7 girl similar to this. Once I finally got her to meet up we had a nice dinner. But when I went to drop her off and lean in for a kiss, she quickly pulled away and got out of my vehicle. She wasn't going to have anything to do with it. I got several texts and phone calls afterwards saying she liked me blah blah blah. Basically this girl either wanted the relationship to move very slowly which was not up to my liking or was just looking for friends. She has called and texted randomly for the past 3weeks. Even asked me to a concert this week. I have ignored every single attempt. I explained to her before and after our date that I was not looking for "just friends". Its likely she wants friends that could turn into something more, however I'm not willing to play that game.

Its real simple, they either act how you want them to act or they are out! What use is a woman that doesn't follow your lead? I only want a woman that lets me be a man. She needs to be somewhat submissive/compliant and if she thinks a first date kiss makes her a "wh0re", then imagine what a "bore" she will be in bed.

I don't shave my balls for nothing.

 

[guru1000]

I find that decisions made out of "ego" rarely bear fruit.

The question is not whether she wants to kiss me back; but rather do I still want to bang her. If I do, I could care less how she responds as long as she is showing interest. In a scenario, where a girl shows interest, I will make it extremely uncomfortable for her to reject me by attempting to kiss her on 4-5 occasions throughout the date. If she's not running out of there, then she is game.

As I stated, I got into a 5-year relationship with a girl who rejected my kiss attempt at least 5 or 6 times over 2-3 dates. Act on your will. If you want to bang her, then bang her. If not, then tell her have a nice day.

 

[The Duke]

I want to point something out that I often see in regards to female advice! And please don't take this the wrong way BeExcellent, I appreciate your perspective. This is not a statement about you, just women in general.

But just look at what you wrote!!! Its all over the damn road. Do this, do that! Nexting is for amateurs! Read the cues! (Refusing a kiss is a pretty BIG CUE she isn't interested, but hey we are talking about women here so it might not be!) I made my ex husband wait, I couldn't wait to kiss this other guy immediately.

You are such a woman to the core, guys are much more solid with their logic. The female mind is much more convoluted, situational, and dependent on current feelings or outside forces. The target is always fluid which is why it makes it so hard for a guy.

Part of this ongoing journey into being the best you can be is learning about yourself and defining what is and isn't acceptable to you. Its how you create a strong "FRAME" for yourself to operate within. Once you do this, then you simply find girls who fit within your framed structure, and reject the rest. Life becomes much more clear and you make more efficient use of your time. This is what being a man is all about. He doesn't move which ever way the wind blows him, he doesn't make excuses based on situations. This is a man who takes charge, has a plan, is highly confident and gets what he wants out of life, and women find this highly attractive.

So let "Be Excellent" and all the others just like her be a woman full of indecisiveness, fluidity, second guessing, irrational wishy-washy behavior, & double standards that are all rooted in emotional thoughts. And YOU work on being a MAN. When you do, things start to fall into place.

 

[Glassguy]

Howie- good info.

This chick sounds like the typical attention *****.

1.) She is seeing someone already.
2.) She isnt kissing, let alone putting out.

She is putting her toes in the water to test the temperature and getting as many options (and free dinners) as she can.

I would next this chick as fast as possible, I would go as far as telling her "not interested in friends, really not interested as long as your seeing someone unless you just want to occasionally hook up."

That will get her hamster spinning a little.....but this slvt isnt worth time or energy (and money).

 

[The Duke]

And here's another thing to ponder....girls wouldn't get away with this flakey behavior if some of you guys weren't enabling it. Does a puppy ever stop peeing on the carpet if you keep allowing it? There's a reason female behavior is so bad these days. And I see a lot of guys that talk a lot of big schitt.

 

[guru1000]

And here's another thing to ponder....girls wouldn't get away with this flakey behavior if some of you guys weren't enabling it. Does a puppy ever stop peeing on the carpet if you keep allowing it? There's a reason female behavior is so bad these days. And I see a lot of guys that talk a lot of big schitt.

Howiestern, one could make the counter argument that by banging girls on the first date and not dumping them subsequent, we are enabling them to be wh0res.

I actually find it refreshing when a girl rejects my kiss (if she is interested). It shows me that she has a little control of her impulses and does not have makeout sessions with every guy she bumps into at initiation.

This is not to be confused with a girl who is not interested, but rather a girl who is interested but not comfortable to play tonsil hockey with every guy she finds attractive.

 

[The Duke]

Very true Guru, thank you for clarifying that point. I was probably not clear enough. At this point in my life, I'm not wanting a girl that puts out on a first date or even plays tonsil hockey, but I do expect at least a kiss on the lips/cheek. I am pretty good at being in tune with my date and pay close attention to body language. Creating comfort and building a connection is always important to me. So If all of that is there, I know there is mutual interest so when I go for the kiss and get shut down I perceive that as a negative. There's a reason she had her hands all over me during the date, yet refused to kiss. I don't care what her reason was, she probably doesn't even truly know. It just doesn't align with my "mission statement" nor fit in my frame! If I'm not fuhking a girl by the 4th date, then I'm gone. After all, women are emotional creatures so a guy that knows what he is doing should be able to build a connection & flip those emotional switches fairly quickly. Its a huge thrill for me to flip those emotional switches, and make that vagina tingle so bad they can't say no.