FR: A Big Fat NO to Kiss

[grayclif]

I think once you have made it clear with eye contact, light kino and a little flirting that you are not their new BFF but a sexual man you can take your time in my experience. Be laid back and confident, and they will go nuts trying to work out why you arent chasing when your intention is clear.

^^^This is what is happening^^^

@Howiestern I really like your points on a man's direction. Thanks

 

[Glassguy]

Howiestern, one could make the counter argument that by banging girls on the first date and not dumping them subsequent, we are enabling them to be wh0res.

I actually find it refreshing when a girl rejects my kiss (if she is interested). It shows me that she has a little control of her impulses and does have makeout sessions with every guy she bumps into at initiation.

This is not to be confused with a girl who is not interested, but rather a girl who is interested but not comfortable to play tonsil hockey with every guy she finds attractive.

Good point, but it depends on the individual. When out with a chick the first time, I look for red flags. I can quickly determine if this is someone that I:
1.) Only will bang
2.) Wont bang
3.) Wow this chick is super cool, lots in common, no real issues (yet) or red flags...might be a good match.

If she falls into the 3 category, I will probably escalate to kissing/making out with her but wont go further...EVEN if she acts like she would. And lets face it, if she feels the same about me she probably wont.

The reason I say this is because I have never been able to "date" a girl who I fvck on the first date or second date. I know once I fvck them, the chase is over and I won.

However, in order to keep my interest high to see where it goes if she is a date-able chick, I force myself to escalate and play but with boundaries because I have to limit myself to that in order to not fvck her and lose interest.

This is the key here- Its MY choice on what I want to do. If the chick is obviously into me in that way but I am not feeling the same for her, she falls into the 1 or 2 column. Then its MY choice to pound her or not.

Quit simple really. I am just constantly going after what I want and let it play out.

 

[BeExcellent]

@Howiestern no offense taken whatsoever.

To me (and perhaps I misunderstood) @grayclif seemed perplexed in that he read the interaction correctly (he knows the 'please kiss me' look), but then he got rejected at that particular moment, her reaction wasn't congruent to his perception. WTF, right?

Ok, he seemed to wonder why that might be.

I gave a few scenarios why that might be, a window into a woman's mind based on my experience as a woman. Obviously it's murky and obviously I'm not her and don't speak for all women...

Fact is who knows why. It doesn't matter.

Why? Who cares?

There are a billion reasons & you'll never know the answer, so it's a rhetorical question.

Asking why will only serve to confuse (which is exactly why my prior post comes off as all over the map & confusing.).

My advice boils down to: See her again if you like her. Lead her. That way you'll get your answer.

 

[guru1000]

Great to have guidelines, but concrete rules can emancipate you as well as serve as prisons. Much better strategy to be fluid and tend to the situation as it unfolds. If, for example, I had a rule to NEXT every girl who rejected my kiss attempt I would have missed out on two great relationships. Ego doesn't always serve your best interest; often the ego serves to reinforce a foolish decision in a subversive attempt to protect itself.

I don't care/worry about IOIs, signals, frame, reciprocation (before the bang), or her IL. What matters to me is whether I am interested or not. If I am, then I pursue. The distinction is understanding when it's lost. For me, that line would be an unanswered text/phone call, flake, or indecision/no to my date request. But if the girl is not running away--as aggressive as I am, and I am extremely aggressive--and she makes herself available, this means game on.

 

[CMNILS87]

Howiestern, one could make the counter argument that by banging girls on the first date and not dumping them subsequent, we are enabling them to be wh0res.

I actually find it refreshing when a girl rejects my kiss (if she is interested). It shows me that she has a little control of her impulses and does not have makeout sessions with every guy she bumps into at initiation.

This is not to be confused with a girl who is not interested, but rather a girl who is interested but not comfortable to play tonsil hockey with every guy she finds attractive.

I agree to this. Guru makes more and more sense the more first dates I go on. Especially younger girls, if they're touchy feely and give you all the interest, but reject a kiss, I know it's because they're cautious. You have to step back from all this and put yourself in their shoes. Just because you had a home run date, they've known you for all of an hour? I'd be hesitant if I was a chick too. If the comfortability isn't there it just won't happen, and as a guy you have to gauge that in the woman as well as be indifferent.

To next because of a first date kiss rejection is an overall bad idea. Chicks emotions ebb and flow and maybe you went at the wrong depressed phase, who knows. If you're the prize and want to see her again, a kiss rejection shouldn't stop you. Everyone's so focused on getting a kiss or kino or their presentation that they're skipping over details or what is said. You can't be worried about first kiss, kino, and taking and still be in the moment.

 

[guru1000]

Will add: Conventional DJ wisdom and other "gurus" will tell you that if a date rejects your first-date kiss, she is not interested. This has almost become a mantra in the manosphere. I can tell you unequivocally this is not the case. Here are eight reasons why a girl may reject your first date kiss:

1) She is not interested in you;
2) She comes from a traditional or religious background where first-date kisses are not customary;
3) She is not yet comfortable with you;
4) You projected a significant player vibe, so ASD is at its height;
5) She is game-playing;
6) She doesn't want you to view her as "easy";
7) She's already in an 'undisclosed' relationship;
8) She just doesn't kiss on the first date.

This is not to be confused with a girl who rejects your first-date kiss as automatically interested, but rather that she is not automatically disinterested.

 

[The Duke]

I'm guessing some of you have never been around a bunch of Italian families? lol, they kiss everybody all the time. Its no big deal.

Enough Mental Masturbation!!!!

Be Excellent laid it down like water on a sheet of glass:
-Fact is who knows why. It doesn't matter.
-Why? Who cares?
-There are a billion reasons & you'll never know the answer, so it's a rhetorical question.
-See her again if you like her. Lead her. That way you'll get your answer.

 

[l_e_g_e_n_d]

Great to have guidelines, but concrete rules can emancipate you as well as serve as prisons. Much better strategy to be fluid and tend to the situation as it unfolds. If, for example, I had a rule to NEXT every girl who rejected my kiss attempt I would have missed out on two great relationships. Ego doesn't always serve your best interest; often the ego serves to reinforce a foolish decision in a subversive attempt to protect itself.

I don't care/worry about IOIs, signals, frame, reciprocation (before the bang), or her IL. What matters to me is whether I am interested or not. If I am, then I pursue. The distinction is understanding when it's lost. For me, that line would be an unanswered text/phone call, flake, or indecision/no to my date request. But if the girl is not running away--as aggressive as I am, and I am extremely aggressive--and she makes herself available, this means game on.

Yep. If a girl makes herself available to your date request, then the door is open. It is then your job as a DJ to close the deal. Don't wish the "sale" were easier; wish you were better.

Don't walk away from the prospect who doesn't svck your dvck at first hello. Challenge her, open her up, address her ASD objections, and close the deal. You came there to close, so fvcken close!

 

[l_e_g_e_n_d]

Hot women don't need to use you for drinks and company. They can get that anywhere with 1000 thirsty betas at the snap of a finger. If a women makes herself available, that means she is open to your fvcking her.

Men, stop being such sensitive fvggots!

 

[Sho-No-Luv]

Hmm, this is a great post, it does sound like she might be testing the waters and have several options. Here's one thing I have to admit, I've never ever in my life leaned in for a kiss and got rejected. But here's the part that may offend you, I'm not saying that this or you are the culprit, but I will sum it up like this:


Yep, halitosis. First make sure your breath is fresh, scrape your tongue, make sure you floss to get rid of debri and food that gets caught between the teeth. Also check your diet and along with good body hygiene, wear nice cologne.

Ask somebody you trust like a brother, sister, mother, best friend to do a breath test. Yea, you can do it yourself, but we crave whats in our gut so it may be harder for you-yourself to really tell the difference.

I can't tell you how many times females have complimented me on my breath not smelling like dead fish. One female that I talked to said that MOST of the men she's dated recently all had bad breath except me. It's a real turn off, I mean think about how you'd feel to lean in a catch a whiff of God awful breath.

Again, not saying thats the case but make sure you check it out..

 

[grayclif]

Hmm, this is a great post, it does sound like she might be testing the waters and have several options. Here's one thing I have to admit, I've never ever in my life leaned in for a kiss and got rejected. But here's the part that may offend you, I'm not saying that this or you are the culprit, but I will sum it up like this:
View attachment 370 View attachment 371 View attachment 372

Yep, halitosis. First make sure your breath is fresh, scrape your tongue, make sure you floss to get rid of debri and food that gets caught between the teeth. Also check your diet and along with good body hygiene, wear nice cologne.

Ask somebody you trust like a brother, sister, mother, best friend to do a breath test. Yea, you can do it yourself, but we crave whats in our gut so it may be harder for you-yourself to really tell the difference.

I can't tell you how many times females have complimented me on my breath not smelling like dead fish. One female that I talked to said that MOST of the men she's dated recently all had bad breath except me. It's a real turn off, I mean think about how you'd feel to lean in a catch a whiff of God awful breath.

Again, not saying thats the case but make sure you check it out..

Funny cause just after she said she was coming I went out to my car and grabbed a few sticks of gum. I know for sure that wasn't the problem.

 

[l_e_g_e_n_d]

Here's one thing I have to admit, I've never ever in my life leaned in for a kiss and got rejected.

If you have never been rejected in a kiss attempt, then you haven't been with enough women or don't take chances for that probability to hit.

I do a great deal of online dating. Here are my ratios per 100 meets (between 1-2 years) approximate:

I have no interest in person as they appear different than their photos: 75

Of the approximate 25 remaining:

Have no interest in me: 3
1st date bangs: 4
2nd date bangs: 7
3rd date or more bangs:11

1. For every 22 that I pursue and bang, at least 3 will reject my kiss attempt on the first date, and 1 of the 3 on the second;

2. Approximate ratio of kiss rejections that lead to bangs over the total that I pursue is 12% (3/25);

3. Approximate ratio of kiss rejections that lead nowhere over the total that I pursue is also 12% (3/25);

4. Approximate ratio of rejected kisses that lead to bangs over total rejected kisses: 50% (3/6).

I, like Guru, am quite aggressive as well, and will go for the kiss at least two times per date. The girls I pursue are at my SMV give or take one point.

Those are my approximate ratios. My science. If anyone wishes to show their numbers, be my guest.

 

[Sho-No-Luv]

If you have never been rejected in a kiss attempt, then you haven't been with enough women or don't take chances for that probability to hit.

Or, I have a very high Smv, and good closing skillz along with being able to adequately judge intrest levels.

 

[l_e_g_e_n_d]

Or, I have a very high Smv, and good closing skillz along with being able to adequately judge intrest levels.

I know, I know, we are all internet Super-Heroes with one thousand notches, and no defeats.

 

[Sho-No-Luv]

I know, I know, we are all internet Super-Heroes with one thousand notches, and no defeats.

Dude dont be mad at me cuz your breath smells like shiit and you have weak skills. I tell nothing but the truth. Did I ever say I was the best DJ that ever lived? No, I've had struggles and I've had incredible success. I'm not sure why its so hard to believe a date and a kiss aint shiit!! I had five women (in the past) who used to cook my meals and pay my bills but my clothes too and they all knew about each other, go back and read some of my posts! No lie but idgaf what you belive, you do you and I will do me.

Yes some men are capable of these things and if you've read my recent posts I admit that I've fallen off and my game is not as strong as it used to be. The fact that you don't belive it's possible says more about you than me.

And since you don't know me nor I you let's keep it that way.