for you hardcore AFC's... change may be gradual!

[realsmoothie]

It seems to me there is a huge discrepancy on this board between DJ's and AFC guys. There doesn't seem to be much in between. This post is for those hardcore AFC guys who are reading this board, reading the bible, and yet thinking that there's no way that they can improve their life to the degree seen by some of the others here. It goes double for those of us who are "mature".

I'm here to say that I have improved my life, but that it has happened VERY gradually. You are not going to just snap your fingers and throw away all those old AFC mentalities.

Five years ago I was 26, living at home in a very small town and making minimum wage. I had a good case of anxiety that made me incredibly nervous even spending more than a few hours in the city. I'd had sex with one woman, and had kissed maybe five. I would NEVER be able to cold approach a woman, and could barely talk to them at all.

I took things in steps. I went to school part time in the city, spending days there. A year or two later I got a room in a house with other students, and stayed there during the week. About a year ago I moved here in the city full-time into my own place, started working here part-time and going to university full time.

Never during this time did I really work on my relationships with girls. Occasionally I'd read sites like this, and look at books. But as a serious procrastinator, I never took any serious steps. Never went to the gym.

However, changes in my attitude started to occur. About the time I moved here fully, I could tell that I was getting more confident. But it has been VERY gradual.

The last year has been the best of my life. Recap: the first thirty years of my life I screwed one girl (my first girlfriend, high school) and maybe had kissed five others. FIVE. In the last year? Had sex with two girls, and have kissed at least twenty.

Some of you DJ's are probably thinking "big deal", maybe not. But I think that is pretty significant improvement.

I've only been here at this board for a few weeks, and it's funny that so many of the things I've read here are ABSOLUTELY FREAKIN' TRUE. And what's even better is that so many of the tricks and truths are natural. Some examples:

1 - ****y and funny - absolutely money. MONEY! Not as easy, or as formulaic, as some here would have you believe... and has a lot to do with your sense of humour and level of confidence. When I am feeling confident, particularly at work, I can C&F like there's no tomorrow. Sometimes I can't believe the crap that comes out of my mouth. The rumour that it works better the hotter the girl is damned true. I really needled this smoking hot girl who'd just broken up with her boyfriend (made a dig at him) and she almost stood back in shock I'd popped the comment.

2 - social proof - this is a really new one to me, as usually I've been hanging with some pretty AFC guys. Not good at the bar, kids. Now I try and go with girls I know, and believe me when you go to a bar with two pretty hot women the other girls pick it up QUICK. I also try and chat with any hot girl in the room, though since I'm still a wuss it's usually just a casual banter and not an approach. And even an average woman standing beside you is better than a guy, in my experience.

3 - age is NOT a detriment - I have yet to reveal my age to a girl of ANY age and have her say anything close to negative. Young girls LOVE those of us around 30... particularly the 19-20 year olds who are sensative about their inexperience and need to pump themselves up.

4 - looks and money help... but are NOTHING compared to your personality. I used to be very shy and didn't trust my sense of humour. Lately I've realized that I have a good sense of humour - sarcastic and dry, generally - and it needs to be used to my advantage.

5 - moods, moods, moods. make a girl feel GOOD and she's yours. Honest to God, this is easily the best fvcking advice i've heard here, and it makes so much sense. Would you want to spend time around someone who mopes, or tells sad stories, or complains about everything? God no.

6 - confidence BUILDS upon the little things in your life - this is the biggest thing I learned, and key to my post. A new shirt, taking the time to chat up the cashier, getting a nicer haircut, learning a new skill, enjoying your job... these things all filter into your unconscious and help with those crucial times where you have to put up or shut up.

The key word is BUILDS. It's not magic, it's not going to happen overnight. Be patient. What do you have to lose? Just take those first tiny steps... it might be Boot Camp, it might not. But just do something to get it started.

Trust me. I'm not a DJ yet, and may never be. But I am maybe twice as confident around women as I was even a year ago. I am currently seeing two girls, one 22 and one 24, both pretty darned cute (HB7's in my book) and great fun to be around... and started seeing both in the last week. Just kissing so far, but to be honest, I both really love to kiss and am just kind of rolling with the slow pace. They seem to like it too...

 

[grinder]

So true about change taking time. It took years and years of social programming to turn us into chumps and unlearning all that crap will take time.

I came to this site totally by accident 6mo ago trying to figure out how to get over a single (bad) case of oneitis. At first I thought, "Oh just use some formula's, David D's methods and bingo, all better". WRONG. Little did I know I had (have) to reprogram my entire fu*cking brain. All the assumptions, attitudes, subtle insinuations, of the way you are supposed to "find that ONE special soul mate" are all around us all the time. It's a constant upstream swim.

Damn, it sure would be easy to learn a few catchy phrases and "tricks" and not actually change OURSELVES.

 

[SELF-MASTERY]

Nice post.

I guess Im one of the rare one's that ran out and did my first approach after an hour of reading posts on her. I think that getting over the fear of rejection is the MOST important thing the avg poster HAS to learn. Act as ye have faith, and faith shall come.

 

[grinder]

I think the longer you have been an AFC to harder it is. I am older so I've been a dumbass longer than most.

SELF-MASTERY is right, you can read 'til your eyeballs fall out, but it don't mean jack 'til you get out there and do it. The systems are great tools, and sort-of training wheels to get out there and find your own way.

I think the AA people have a great saying:

"Fake it 'til you make it..."

 

[MrCode]

Great post, and so true.

True internal change can take a long time to manifest. If you look at any of the "master PUAs" it took them years to get their current skill level. Mystery, Style, Tyler Durden, David D, Pook and the rest. But you mustn't despair because I bet overall those were some fun years compared to just sitting at home pining for your oneitis or otherwise continuing the AFC lifestyle.

I have noticed the same in my own life. I laugh when I remember how I use to be years ago, yet I still see plenty of places for improvement. But I know I can make those new changes because I have a history of other changes I have made. Never shortchange yourself for the efforts you have made so far! Every step counts, even if the journey is a long one.

 

[speakeasy]

One of the gurus once said that it takes about 2 years to become good at something, and about 4 years to master it. That applies to martial arts, getting women, playing sports, whatever.

 

[shyguy32]

Great Post....yes it does take time and I'm slowly getting better at this thing too.

My whole goal is to be able to walk up to any woman, anywhere and try to get her number.

And I'm a long way from that, but a long way from where I started 3 years agol. Only ran across this site in the last year. Has helped me out tremendously....wasted a few hundred bucks on those ebooks floating around, but this is by far the best place to be.

 

[realsmoothie]

Oh sure, I finally start a thread and get some "good post" reviews, and dingle-nuts shows up again.

Anyhow... further proof of the pudding... for those of you that read my other thread, the incredibly hot girl that i was chasing for the last few months and being flaked on has pulled the last straw.

A year ago, I'd be devastated. Now, I'm just moderately pissed off with myself for letting myself slide and very disappointed in her for not realizing what she had.

Times change, boyos.

 

[Desdinova]

Good post

Sometimes you need to take baby steps, but you WILL get there!

and believe me when you go to a bar with two pretty hot women the other girls pick it up QUICK.

I'm surprised at how much less social proof gets mentioned on this site anymore, because it works extremely well. I had one pub full of people I knew, women I made out with, and if a date wasn't going very well and she was losing IL, I'd just take her to the pub full of social proof and her IL would shoot right back up. Worked every time.

5 - moods, moods, moods. make a girl feel GOOD and she's yours.

Eventually, you may discover that all you have to do is make a woman FEEL, and she's yours. It doesn't all have to be good, but if you can bring on some internal excitement, she's yours. This is EXACTLY what happens when a woman falls for the "jerk". She doesn't necessarily feel good, she just FEELS. She feels many different things which makes her excited.

Keep up the good work, and good luck on your new path!

 

[BobFuest]

Two things i wanted to bring up:
1. feelings and moods
--- it works like TNT and there is nothing like it. I have had sex with many women just because I made them feel good. It works almost as good as challenge does. Even if its not a good mood, putting them on an emotional rollercoaster will almost ensure (not always) that when they get off the ride the next stop is you!

2. Social proof.
-- working in the club scene as I do I notice that social proof will get you looks and openings to talk to many other women. Even bringing your hot friend or girls you know ensures that you meet other women. It also makes you less creepy looking. Your not the guy alone in the corner looking to rape someone :crackup: Also, not metioned too much but helpful; myspace comments. Social proof is there too. I recently had all these hot friends post comments about how great a time they had with me and now i got all these girls from myspace trying to get my attention and telling me they miss me.

still learning the ropes and building myself but the proof is definately all around us.

 

[zafuhunter]

conrete suggestions?

I've read in many places about the importance of making the woman feel good or even just making her emotional in general. Anybody have concrete examples of what that means exactly? Even better than one-off examples would be an overall strategy for making a woman get emotional.

Someone mentioned how bad-a$$es manage to make a girl get emotional. My impression is that the whole badboy persona draws women more because they are confident and present a challenge rather than because they elicit emotional responses from women.

 

[d9930380]

The reason why AFCs take ages to change into Don Juin's is that they don't WANT to. They want to find ONE girl who is perfect in everyway and likes them for being an AFC and live the rest of their life with her in some sort of Disney fairytale romance.

They resent and look down (hard to believe I know) on players because they treat women like **** (they don't) and AFCs know that if THEY have a girlfriend then they would treat her like a princess so they're better than them etc etc etc.

In short AFCs think they are morally superior to players and it takes a long time to go against your principals and morals.

That's the reason why ALOT of AFCs also HATE women. Because they see women as the reason THEY have to change their morality.

 

[d9930380]

Oh also - the guy is right - making a girl feel good about herself - WILL make her like you but you can't do it just to blatantly get something (sex or whatever) as she will see through it.

When someone talks about someone they know who is charming, they generally say the same thing, he/she makes ME feel great about myself. Be warned, charming people know what they are doing and most of what they say is lies or half truths to get you to like them even if it isn't apparent.

As the Bible says:

"Beauty fades, charm is deceiving"

I do it all the time, it's generally very successful. ;-)

The problem is she MIGHT like you but not be attracted to you, she will like the attention and therefore she WILL flirt but she won't go further than that. Some people call these girls attention *****s however I think that's just all girls.

It's nice to flirt even when you know nothing will happen. Just don't GIVE her anything.

 

[d9930380]

AFCs don't look at the world that way and therefore THEY blame attention ***** girls when really it's their fault for ACTUALLY giving a **** about some girl they have just met who happens to show them a bit of interest.

"Don't hate the player, hate the game!"

I hate to say it but it's true.

 

[realsmoothie]

Self-bump, and update.

OK it's been two weeks since the original post, and things are improving DRAMATICALLY at this point.

I have met three new girls in three nights at various bars... on maybe five or six approaches. None of them are super-hot, but definitely doable in my books. With this ratio I think I definitely have the potential to date women that are much more attractive, though it will come with rejections.

I haven't actually fvcked anyone recently, though. Lots of goofing around and making out, and a couple of sleep-overs... but I just can't commit to full on sex. Nervousness, certainly, but i think that it's also the realization that I could do better.

Geez, could be worse, huh?

I also haven't come in a week... and this after having masturbated pretty much daily for almost 20 years. Some poor girl is going to have a mess on her hands soon...

Sorry if I ramble... part of it is being proud of myself and part of it is a desire to help others that are feeling really down and out about themselves. As I said before... there's no magic cure for being an AFC. But once the ball gets rolling, you really can't stop it.

 

[Cod3r]

I've read in many places about the importance of making the woman feel good or even just making her emotional in general. Anybody have concrete examples of what that means exactly? Even better than one-off examples would be an overall strategy for making a woman get emotional.

Someone mentioned how bad-a$$es manage to make a girl get emotional. My impression is that the whole badboy persona draws women more because they are confident and present a challenge rather than because they elicit emotional responses from women.

Once you have more experiences with women you'll realize the answer for yourself. Get yourself a relationship, establish a large amount of attraction and then just treat her like utter **** for the next 3 months and I'd bet most of my money she won't leave you... I used to be a badass because my ex-girl was a friggin badass chick (she turned me into an ass) and I'd stand her ass up, leave her at the movie theaters, leave her at clubs, flirt and mess aroun with her roommate, she'd hit me, I'd hit her ass back... basically everything and despite all these good lookin ****ers and her gfs saying...

"Leave him, he's an *******, omg he sucks at life... he's unhealthy"

I had to break up with her cuz damn she could do ALOT better than me at that time. She begged to stay, but I had to set her loose for her own good. Anyway point of the story, juss give her something to gossip to her friends about lol, its THAT simple... every once and a while do something so she can go back to her gf's and say, "can you believe my man did this !!!"

I swear females are so simple, you guys make this so hard...


-Cod3r

 

[realsmoothie]

Just wanted to self-bump this... with an update.

I've been stressing lately about what I thought was a lack of progress.

I was feeling that I wasn't getting anywhere with women... then realized that a year ago I barely knew ANY women. Now, if I take time to think about it, I can come up with probably five or six women I could call up and date if I really wanted to.

Thing is... my confidence is up so drastically that I think I can do BETTER than them. Either they're kind of dumb, or not too hot, or just plain flaky. Not worth it.

I just need to not be satisfied with things as they are and keep improving. There's too much danger in resting on your laurels!

 

[Bonhomme]

This thread is a refreshing -- and more useful -- change from the threads from naturals who have it too easy for their info to be of much value to ordinary guys and the negative types who expect too much and give up too easily.

Props, realsmoothie and another bump!

 

[realsmoothie]

Just a bit of casual self-promotion.

A girl asked ME out yesterday. It's the first time this has ever happened to me. She was a customer that came in regularly... I was too wimpy to full on ask her out but I made sure to always show interest in our conversations.

Yesterday she came in, got her stuff, left and came back a half-our later and asked me out for coffee. She was very nervous, it was cute.

So we went on our coffee date, went fantastic. She's adorable: thin, athletic, socially quiet but has a sweet nervous energy. Score one for me. Now I just need to find a more romantic atmosphere for the next "date".

I worked after that date, and lemme tell ya, I was so confident it was ridiculous. I was hitting on everyone, including the ultra-hot HB 9 actress that comes in to print resumes for auditions. Not quite up to asking people out (without alcohol, that is), but we're really getting there.

Does anyone else have stories of going from nowhere to SOMEWHERE?

 

[Victory Unlimited]

Yo Realsmoothie,


Long before I found this site, I used to have trouble approaching women. I didn't know what to say to them once I got their attention. I used to take a prop with me wherever I went, like a shopping bag from a particular store at the mall.

I would always stop the women and say something like:
"Excuse me, I was wondering do you know where the "The Gap" is in THIS mall? A friend of mine bought me a gift, but it's wack, and I won't to exchange it. The only thing is---the same friend who gave me the gift actually WORKS at The Gap at the OTHER mall, so that's why I'm exchanging it at THIS one. lol" Then, whenever a girl would be helpful enough to give me the time of day, I would MACK her.

Well that was then and this is now. Since coming to this site, I have been inspired to MAN UP and approach women anytime anywhere.

Now, after approaching probably 60+ women over the past 10 months, I can say in all honesty that I have absolutely NO FEAR of approaching ANY woman. This change in me has been SWIFT, not slow,though.

And I think the reason WHY is because I had made up in my mind last year that I HAD to change. I MUST change. So change I did...



March on!